The real reason golfers don’t get better with practice

[gatorpedsMD]

Posted A minute ago

I talked to our personal friend who is a professional dancer about 30 minutes ago because I texted her asking why i seem to not be able to perform certain moves in golf at full-speed...only in slow motion. i told her my body seems to be rejecting my requests.

 

She called me and said: "you're NOT stretched enough!" She said she stretches for over an hour before attempting a dance routine...and has a specific regimen of stretches according to the upcoming dance style / demands. She said she's stretching when she's off camera between dances. She also said "imagine me...I do this for a living...and I have to stretch more in one night than you in 10 years!". She was joking...but making a point. She said it's not your brain fighting you....it's your body saying NO. She added that's why I can hit certain positions in slow-motion...but not at full-speed.

 

I can't say who this woman is....but if you've watched DWTS....you've seen her many times.

 

Please, for the love of God, tell me its Sharna?!?!

 

i def spend 10 minutes now warming up including some orange whip work!

 

It's not Sharna....but I hear you bro....but just as eye-popping. I can tell you these gals are IN SHAPE!

 

That's a statement I think all of WRX can agree upon :friends:

 

I went to several shoots and OMG....few folks in sports can hold a candle to the conditioning of DWTS dancers. Some of the stuff they do is mind-boggling in person that TV doesn't give credit.

[Lefthook]

I do not agree with the premises of this discussion.

 

People do get better with practice. And a lot better too. The difference between an absolute beginner and an 10 handicapper is huge. From 10 to scratch is much bigger and from scr to world class even more so. But eventually we all hit a threshold for the level of commitment we have put into the game.

[FourTops]

I do not agree with the premises of this discussion.

 

People do get better with practice. And a lot better too. The difference between an absolute beginner and an 10 handicapper is huge. From 10 to scratch is much bigger and from scr to world class even more so. But eventually we all hit a threshold for the level of commitment we have put into the game.

 

Everyone has a different opinion because everyone is unique. But define what "practice" means. Going back to my piano comparison, practicing piano with bad technique results in hitting a wall to advance into harder pieces. Sure, a piano player can get by with lousy technique, but he/she is not playing the piece as written. It "sounds like the song"...but you can tell it's not right. Same for golf. The swing "looks like" a golf swing....but it's too inefficient to hit the ball squarely on a consistent basis. I see guys on the tennis court practicing hitting with a ball machine...100's of balls. And what I also see is flat-footed, no body rotation...all arm swings. They aren't getting better to play against more advanced players...they're just hitting balls, and they'll end-up playing against the same basic level folks.

[Lefthook]

Good point. If practice is mindless ball bashing on the range instead of playing, the alternative is better. But I also regard playing golf as practice ... and generally the best practice if you have to choose one method.

[FourTops]

Good point. If practice is mindless ball bashing on the range instead of playing, the alternative is better. But I also regard playing golf as practice ... and generally the best practice if you have to choose one method.

 

Lefthook....these days, and after talking to a professional dancer about how stretching will make/break any attempted movements...no matter how well I can do them in "slow motion"....I'm going to stretch religiously each day and swing a club thereafter. I'm not going to hit many range balls before a round because lactic acid sets in after any workout and I think that's why my body/muscles tighten-up on the course.

[wmblake2000]

PS: this instruction section has a LOT of emphasis these days on how we learn and improve. I don’t recall this ever getting so much attention.

 

I have long thought learning could be seen as phases - from lesson to range to course to competition. But even that short hand (for me) didn’t do justice to the challenges.

 

These diverse and robust threads are great.

 

[glk]

Andrew Jensen has a golf vlog and discusses lots of really good stuff. I've posted Dan's instagram of his swing a lot - https://www.instagram.com/p/Blfmp92HLQO/

I highly recommend giving his vlog a look.

 

Here are just two of many good video from him, one on practice and another on questions in general.

 

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[FourTops]

PS: this instruction section has a LOT of emphasis these days on how we learn and improve. I don’t recall this ever getting so much attention.

 

I have long thought learning could be seen as phases - from lesson to range to course to competition. But even that short hand (for me) didn’t do justice to the challenges.

 

These diverse and robust threads are great.

 

When Ancient Alien Theorists say YES to my thoughts I know I'm on the right track! I've bored enough people over the years about mental golf.

[HackerDave]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

[airjammer]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

 

You may have found the reason for you. You can indeed test this by overly exaggerating the movements during the slow swing to help dynamically stretch those tight muscles and over time gain the flexibility required.

[gatorpedsMD]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

 

i disagree. there are all types of body types that are good at golf. now to hit it 350 sure u have to have some legit flexibility and strength but u only need to hit it about 250-280 to get to scratch + handicap level. I'm almost scratch and have crap mobility and 50 lbs overweight......

 

I think these articles also support the three greatest ball strikers ever IMO (Hogan, Trevino, and Moe) who had little/no formal coach/PT/OT/pysch/physio/etc., but found a way to be great by FOCUSED PRACTICE. They did trial and error until they found a repeatable move that fit their body/mind. That's the secret, u have to work really hard and intelligently to get as good as u can. 90% do neither. Some do the hard work but stupidly. Very few do both routinely AND have the time/money needed to be as good as possible.

[Obee]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

 

That is likely because you are trying to shoehorn a swing that doens't fit your flexibility into your out of shape body. I'm a very big, out-of-shape, extremely inflexible guy. My swing is compact and in front of me. I don't hit it far at all (220 - 235 driver carry, 245 - 260 total distance), but you don't need to to play scratch golf. I challenge you to re-think what is possible with your body type and fitness level.

[wmblake2000]

My current belief is a) find feels that you believe should be important and reliable on the course (there are many feels to accomplish the same goal), b) pay attention to the speed at which you lose connection to that feel and action... is it physical or mental? (Strength/flexibility vs not familiar enough?), c) do you increase your capacity for the new motion or accept status quo?, d) practice playing sometimes from range mindset (focus on new feels) and sometimes without any intent to ‘improve swing’ but score with whatever swing happens.

 

[Nard_S]

There is something to be said for improving overall fitness and getting game improvement from it. Better legs and core muscles will yield more MPH club speed and tighter dispersion. It's free in that you do have not to improve or grind swing but it does cost in terms of dedication and discipline to go months on end putting work in the gym.One year, I put in 4 months, 3X a week in. Did not touch golf club. Same crappy swing had me 1/2 club longer on irons and 15 on Driver and scoring was much better, especially anti-cap.Same effort dedicated to banging balls would yield same perhaps but New England weather is not always conducive to that route..

[wmblake2000]

I think the most difficult thing for me overall was finding the feels that I really believed in and disregarding the rest. There really are a million ways to swing a club successfully but things need to work together with your body and mind. Can't be too complex or require more effort than you can provide on the course (eg, take a motion where you really have to force a stretch that you can do on range after ball-after-ball but can't do on the course).

 

But for me, simplifying and coming to rest on a limited number of feels - checkpoints in the swing that work together. Stopping wandering all over the planet trying to figure out how the 'system' of the swing should hang together is a major milestone for me. Taking lessons helps (a lot) but there are still a million options that never get addressed that I had to embrace or discard to come to 'my swing.' I *think* (hope, pray) I have sorted this out. It's GREAT to have a very limited and consistent pattern of feels for every swing, every range session, that gets to the course.

[Tim Schoch]

Forming new physical habits is how I focus. For my warped mind, embracing the result is everything. Where do I want the softball, Frisbee, croquet ball, basketball, golf ball to go? I commit to that in my mind's eye. For the golf swing I have a few "slots" my hands need to go, especially at the transition. The rest I trust my understanding of golf cause and effect and freely swing the club. My body reacts as well as it has been taught. Bottom line for me is to make good swing positions habitual as best I can before asking for exacting results.

 

I completly rebel against jargon and interpretations that amount to the same thing for me. Result is that I know I am always as good as I can be that day.

[FourTops]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

 

Of course what you stated "Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing." is 100% true. The reason is you're body is not ready for "full-contact" golf. Conditioning the muscles is paramount to success. Pro football players are constantly conditioning to retain strength as well as endurance. If they take two weeks off they see a reduction in performance. The problem is people think the golf swing doesn't require conditioning.

[MountainGoat]

After years of lessons, practice and playing, I am more convinced then ever that physical condition is the biggest determining factor in performance. My lack of flexibility prevents me from taking my slow motion swing to full speed. Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing.

 

Of course what you stated "Your body will always react in a way to prevent injury, and that is why my practice swing is so different than my full speed swing." is 100% true. The reason is you're body is not ready for "full-contact" golf. Conditioning the muscles is paramount to success. Pro football players are constantly conditioning to retain strength as well as endurance. If they take two weeks off they see a reduction in performance. The problem is people think the golf swing doesn't require conditioning.

 

I'd really love to agree with this but I just can't. I got myself in as good a physical shape as was possible and I do flexibility drills as well. Neither has affected my game one iota, and I get regularly beat by a fat guy who can barely walk from his cart to the ball. My personal experience is that people don't improve because they're being given rotten information by an army of misinformed teaching pros. Literally every single 'fundamental' that I was taught as a younger player has now been refuted, and modern pros are teaching the opposite. The golf teaching profession is about where medicine was in 1865 when that profession was only beginning to incorporate actual science.

[Nickc]

As the US PGA & Bobby Jones said important not to practice your faults:

Enjoy!

[rich_s2]

I play with a lot of people and I see a lot of reasons why they don’t improve. Couple guys want to get better but just constantly do the same things over and over and over. Others don’t have any interest in the range but want to work on substantial swing changes while playing. They get frustrated and just revert back. Others go to the range but have no clue what to do so they just pound balls.

 

Out of hundreds of people I see at our range only about 3 actually work on their game. Hitting different shots and hardcore wedge work. To this day I have never seen anyone in our practice bunkers besides me. I have never seen one tee in our putting green.

 

I think you have three conditions to those that don’t improve:

1) too lazy or just don’t care enough to commit to real practice

2) every day is a different swing theory

3) want to but have no idea how to improve

 

Let’s face it, it’s pure work and time to genuinely improve and most people just think they are a swing tweak away from scratch rather than just practicing their butts off.

 

 

[games]

The only swing thought allowed was a tempo mantra. It was encouraged to say it out loud on all practice swings and when hitting the ball. Mine was "one and two."

Guess what: it worked. I followed the process and got down to the lowest handicap I'd had in years.

 

Congratulations. IMO, the best way to maximize your potential is to consciously incorporate 1-2 "generally accepted" techniques into every practice swing you make.

I think tempo definitely falls into that category.

[games]

Why "most" golfers don't improve with practice:

 

1. Physical incapability

RedJeep83 wasn't wrong. A lot of us just can't "make room" necessary for a repeatable "bent trail elbow" swing.

 

2. Too much driver

In a round of golf, a maximum of 18 shots can be struck with an artificially elevated ball.

Of those, typically 10 require use of a driver.

 

3. Too much full swing wedge

In theory, you should never need a full swing wedge on the course, except for a short approach shot.

I would probably add unlucky breaks where the ball trickles into a greenside lie.

New, avid golfers looking to improve often hear or read "start with your wedges" when practicing at the range.

While wedges are shorter and easier to hit, they train a steeper plane with a repetitive full swing, which is an invitation to OTT.

 

For a new golfer committed to improvement I would recommend taking two clubs to the range for full swing practice: 7- or 8-iron and 3- or 5-wood.

To practice short game and putting, add a 56* SW.

[FourTops]

I play with a lot of people and I see a lot of reasons why they don't improve. Couple guys want to get better but just constantly do the same things over and over and over. Others don't have any interest in the range but want to work on substantial swing changes while playing. They get frustrated and just revert back. Others go to the range but have no clue what to do so they just pound balls.

 

Out of hundreds of people I see at our range only about 3 actually work on their game. Hitting different shots and hardcore wedge work. To this day I have never seen anyone in our practice bunkers besides me. I have never seen one tee in our putting green.

 

I think you have three conditions to those that don't improve:

1) too lazy or just don't care enough to commit to real practice

2) every day is a different swing theory

3) want to but have no idea how to improve

 

Let's face it, it's pure work and time to genuinely improve and most people just think they are a swing tweak away from scratch rather than just practicing their butts off.

 

Good points. IMO part of the reason for "not improving" is because golf is a hobby for lots of folks even though they claim wanting to improve. They aren't stupid, they know it takes work, but for many reasons it's not in the cards for them. And that's fine. Some folks like to tinker on the piano or guitar for fun, and they know to get better requires dedication, but they are happy with tinkering. After all, golf is a great escape to the outdoors, so why not?

 

Others want to learn, but they are too stubborn to take lessons. They would rather die than accept someone else helped them...they don't want help. They're the one's who say "I think I've finally figured out _______", for the 10,000th time. There's no help for these folks. They will play golf with the same swing for 40 years.

 

For the rest, they don't know how to practice, or what to practice. Let's face it folks, how many different ways can you take the club to the top? There's just not that many combinations...but somehow that one move can be paralyzing. Somehow they missed seeing all the weird back swings on tour. Or how about the impact position? I can get my wife who plays into Lexi Thompson's impact position, but on the very next swing....POOF....back to the same impact position. Plus, some folks have Tiger in their head when maybe their body makeup is better matched to Sergio's swing.. The never-ending fight against biology.

 

Then there's mental golf. In the Meta-Awareness Learning thread, Jim Waldron outlines how our normal-awareness mindset actually works hard to "reject" new swing moves. Let's face it...how many times have we all practiced a move....an instructor says "you nailed it", and there's video proof....but then we get on the course and proceed to use the old swing? There's some sort of "change" is "danger" going on...brain "firmware" that is hard to over-write with an update. The mental part of learning, and playing golf is so under-rated. For every 100,000 swing tips online, there's like 10 mental golf discussions.

[OakLawnGolfPro]

At the end of the day, most people don't get better because they fail to practice in a way that allows for the variability of the game. They are looking for the "perfect swing" and not how to move the club in a way that is adaptable. It's actually quite simple when done under proper conditions and with proper environment, but most don't worry about that and our industry doesn't care to push that.

[FourTops]

Golf is about seeking alignments that require average flexibility. Stretching from Minnesota to Alabama during a swing means little. 90% of the swing happens below the shoulders.

 

Find unlnar deviation via the proximal and not distal and you have most of it down.

 

If I'm thinking "ulnar deviation via the proximal and not distal" I'm toast. Or, I need a science skeleton attached to my cart for reference. All in fun of course!

[finleysg]

Programming languages that use a semicolon to end statements give you a lot of practice with ulnar deviation. Doesn't help the golf game at all, unfortunately.

[naval2006]

 

Find unlnar deviation via the proximal and not distal and you have most of it down.

 

Good players spend time practicing. Wrxr’s spend their time trying to figure out this kind of quotations instead. LOL

[wmblake2000]

Golf is about seeking alignments that require average flexibility. Stretching from Minnesota to Alabama during a swing means little. 90% of the swing happens below the shoulders.

 

 

Seems to me hip flexibility in several directions is a big part of keeping the swing in sequence and connecting upper and lower body.

[FourTops]

Golf is about seeking alignments that require average flexibility. Stretching from Minnesota to Alabama during a swing means little. 90% of the swing happens below the shoulders.

 

 

Seems to me hip flexibility in several directions is a big part of keeping the swing in sequence and connecting upper and lower body.

 

So I got up to the tee box on #15 today and my only thought was "PLEASE PROXIMAL...JUST THIS ONE TIME!". Then I pulled the drive left because...of course, the DISTAL got jealous being left out of my pleading.

[Golfjack]

So basically there are three items so far I can extract. People have ceilings.

1) Mental/Physical talents (limited by strength, height, flexibility, fast twitch muscles, hand eye coordination, mental strength)

2) Swing form (if we didn't change our swing at all, where can our current swing take us. For example, many single digits don't have picture perfect swings, but will never get to scratch because of inherent flaws causing inconsistency. how many are willing to rebuild their swing completely?)

3) Dedication - Who puts in the full amount of time needed to practice and play? I don't think anyone does other than college athletes and pro's. Even most scratch guys practice at a less than optimal level.

 

Basically people are what they are because of what they put in or are able to put in. Even with a crappy swing, people can play enough to get down to single digits or at least shoot 80's. You want to consistently play well and practice efficiently? It helps to practice/think the right way. In golf and in any sport really, knowing what to focus on really helps improve your performance. Whether you need a lot of detailed talk to take you there or simple anecdotes that really resonate with you depends on your personality. Nothing is wrong as long as it takes you to the same desired result. And different people take different paths, come up with different solutions. That's just life and people.