Toulon calls out Scotty for copying

[BrianMcG]

Not defending Scotty (or anyone else) but especially in putters, everyone copies everyone else. Yes there are a few examples of a groundbreaking design (like when the 2 ball came out) but for the most part, everyone is just tweaking everyone else’s ideas and around and around we go.

 

Even the 2 ball was "inspired" by Dave Pelz 3 ball putter.

 

Well, since Pelz was with Odyssey at the time, not really the same.

[toc]

Sean Toulon is mankind’s single greatest contribution to the recorded history of this planet.

[Golfer4Life]

Toulon is a nobody.

 

Lifetime ban for lack of industry knowledge.

 

Jk, but seriously?

[dcmidnight]

Toulon is a nobody.

 

I've been a mod here for ~12 years.

 

And this is literally - and I think I used that word correctly here - the most ludicrous thing I've ever read.

 

Not only is he one of the most knowledgeable guys in the industry but he also happens to be a really great dude to just hang out with and talk shop.

[pgagreg1]

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.

People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.

I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.

[Fade]

Jeez, it is only a putter cover, albeit a fancy one. Who invented fancy putter covers?

[doublehans]

The Gulf racing livery (that specific orange and blue) has been used in hundreds (if not thousands) of applications in the decades since it was first seen in the 1960s. If Scotty is guilty of "copying" anything, then so is Toulon.

 

What a joke.

 

That's the funny part. That Gulf design has been around for a long time, so Toulon is supposed to be original just because he incorporated it into a putter/cover before Scotty did? I'd agree with whoever said this was probably a lazy idea for Scotty, but if you want to call Scotty out for copying, geez, don't pick out something that wasn't very original to begin with.

[GoGoErky]

The Gulf racing livery (that specific orange and blue) has been used in hundreds (if not thousands) of applications in the decades since it was first seen in the 1960s. If Scotty is guilty of "copying" anything, then so is Toulon.

 

What a joke.

 

That's the funny part. That Gulf design has been around for a long time, so Toulon is supposed to be original just because he incorporated it into a putter/cover before Scotty did? I'd agree with whoever said this was probably a lazy idea for Scotty, but if you want to call Scotty out for copying, geez, don't pick out something that wasn't very original to begin with.

 

For me it’s another notch in the belt of the arrogance that Callaway/Odysey and now toulon demonstrates on social media that pushes me further away from the brand. Titleist gets/has a rep for being elitist and numerous other synonyms but the group at Callaway exemplifies it constantly on social

[PALS-SSA]

Wait a minute. Scotty copied somebody?

 

Gee, I'm SHOCKED!

[Golfer4Life]

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.

People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.

I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.

 

Oh yes, the good ol' internet troll argument. Nice try and very classy commentary.

 

Cameron gets the comments he gets because of his own doing.

[jaw2k9]

Perhaps Toulon can start making headcovers with dancing things on them (4 or 5 is it?) pointed crowns for example - and see what the response is.

[Meanmachinemoe]

Not defending Scotty (or anyone else) but especially in putters, everyone copies everyone else. Yes there are a few examples of a groundbreaking design (like when the 2 ball came out) but for the most part, everyone is just tweaking everyone elses ideas and around and around we go.

 

Even the 2 ball was "inspired" by Dave Pelz 3 ball putter.

 

The 2-ball was Pelz's baby too. I know for a fact. He sold the concept to Odyssey.

[4rheel]

Not a scotty fanboy but nothing is more blatant than the Columbus/Notchback. Lol

 

[cardoustie]

Karsten is one under appreciated dude in the history of golf design

[Scotty1140]

Karsten is one under appreciated dude in the history of golf design

Really?

 

If someone so much as calls something ‘Newport style’ or another name other than the Anser they get an instant, stern history lesson from the next poster. God forbid you use anything other than the absolutely original head shape name to describe a putter around here. I love old Ping putters, have many but I feel like Karsten gets his due regularly around the putter world.

 

I’d say TP Mills is much more under appreciated than Karsten.

 

EDIT: In the “under appreciated” file, check out old Kirk Currie putters. Ahead of their time in many ways. Lots of modern putters features like sole plates and face milling, etc. can be found in those KC and Slazenger lines.

[Stanks]

Are we talking about a head cover lookalike? Come on, brahs.

 

Toulon makes great stuff. Else does Scotty C. But this is a head cover...

[BrockPSU]

Lets be honest, how many designs can you actually come up with in a putter? Were not talking cars here, were talking putters. And even then car companies copy each other. Actually every company that has a competitor copies the other to stay up to date and competitive.

[Golfer4Life]

I think the problem is Mr. Cameron never gives credit where and when credit is due. There are all his "original ideas" and people call his bullshtein, that's all.

[cmrl1986]

Scotty hasn't made a good putter since the Buttonback in my opinion. Every one of his "original" designs have been horrible, including his latest "Concept X". He's made a living on making copies of other people's designs, tweaking them minimally, then slapping his name on them with a huge mark up. I Don't think they're worth what they go for from a build perspective, but people will pay just too see 3 cherry bombs and his name stamped on it.

[KaBoom21]

Timmy?

[Misc1600]

Naming your putters after cities is not the same thing?

[SoCalTitleist]

Naming your putters after cities is not the same thing?

Lol. Nice catch!

[GoGoErky]

Naming your putters after cities is not the same thing?

 

Good point.

[bogeypro]

Naming your putters after cities is not the same thing?

 

For real! I’ve been saying it for years.

[pgagreg1]

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.

People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.

I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.

 

Oh yes, the good ol' internet troll argument. Nice try and very classy commentary.

 

Cameron gets the comments he gets because of his own doing.

 

Hello old Friend

Scotty has always acknowledged TP Mills and Karsten was inspiration for much of what he did.

But it is never enough for some people, they will always hate. They will have stories of how Scotty has wronged them or their friends.

Every story has 2 sides and people will choose to believe what they want.

 

Some people call Scotty Xexor as if it is some kind of derogatory name. The name comes from Scottys early names on tour. In the late 80's and early 90's cast Ping putters dominated to PGA tour.

Scotty was out there trying to get players to try milled carbon steel putter heads. Many people believe the carbon steel has a more consistent feel and performance when compared to cast. Owing to the fact that cast putter heads sometimes contain air pockets that effect feel and performance. Tour players would give their cast gamer to Scotty and ask him to copy the putter in the new milled carbon steel he was pushing. The nickname Mr. Xerox came from the players on the PGA tour. I don't know how he personally feels about the nickname.

 

As to the headcover if you look at it you can see there are differences if you want to. If you look at the world through colored glasses it is a GD exact duplicate. How dare he.

[Warrick]

LOL

[Golfer4Life]

They say all publicity is good. Good for Sean and good for Scotty.

People have been hating on Scotty for a long time and he just keeps rolling along.

I guess he doesn't need any internet trolls approval to do what he does.

 

Oh yes, the good ol' internet troll argument. Nice try and very classy commentary.

 

Cameron gets the comments he gets because of his own doing.

 

Hello old Friend

Scotty has always acknowledged TP Mills and Karsten was inspiration for much of what he did.

But it is never enough for some people, they will always hate. They will have stories of how Scotty has wronged them or their friends.

Every story has 2 sides and people will choose to believe what they want.

 

Some people call Scotty Xexor as if it is some kind of derogatory name. The name comes from Scottys early names on tour. In the late 80's and early 90's cast Ping putters dominated to PGA tour.

Scotty was out there trying to get players to try milled carbon steel putter heads. Many people believe the carbon steel has a more consistent feel and performance when compared to cast. Owing to the fact that cast putter heads sometimes contain air pockets that effect feel and performance. Tour players would give their cast gamer to Scotty and ask him to copy the putter in the new milled carbon steel he was pushing. The nickname Mr. Xerox came from the players on the PGA tour. I don't know how he personally feels about the nickname.

 

As to the headcover if you look at it you can see there are differences if you want to. If you look at the world through colored glasses it is a GD exact duplicate. How dare he.

 

I understand your explanation and at least it’s better than the “trolling” argument. What I believe about Mr. Cameron is based on my own experience, which it was relatively substantial in relation to collecting and buying into the whole thing. I saw and experienced many things that left a bad taste in my mouth and really dropped him from the pedestal I had him on.

 

Disappointment is even too light to described how I felt back then. But life goes on and my opinion of him and his practices will never change. He’ll continue to do what he does and that’s about it, he doesn’t care what anybody thinks.

[dxdgenert]

There have been very few original designs that worked since the ping designs. Most successful new designs gained popularity through performance in the hands of PGA tour pros. The #7 with the horns on the back and that taylormade spider come to mind. Not even sure who gets the credit for those?

LOL, literally, Sean Toulon. He was Executive VP of product creation during the Spider design. So it looks like he knows a thing or two about design innovation. Not to mention all of the other “classics” he’s worked on during his TMaG Days.

[dommer]

Scotty has hit a new low, surprising because I didn’t think his designs could get much worse.

[Stanks]

Scotty has hit a new low, surprising because I didn’t think his designs could get much worse.

 

Guy...it’s a head cover...