Jump to content
2024 Houston Open WITB Photos ×

Bunkerless holes-how many?


Recommended Posts

I was reading a thread about how one would improve Augusta, and someone said add a bunker to 14, currently the only bunkerless hole on the course. That got me thinking, on the courses you play, how many holes are bunkerless, and how do enjoy those holes relative to others? Also in your ideal course, how many, if any, bunkerless holes would there be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My home course has 5 holes without any bunkers. Each one has some other "defense" in the form of OB, water, trees, severe slopes around the green, a really challenging green, or several of the above. Generally, I like bunkers for the way they can be used to frame holes, to provide aiming points, and to provide strategic (or punitive) elements. But its possible to do all of that in other ways, especially on a site with significant elevation change. I don't really think about an ideal course, so I can't answer that question, but you can definitely have a really good hole without having a single bunker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP I see you are out in the East Bay. Metropolitan - which used to be my local course - has 3 bunkerless par 4 holes that are protected by some combination of length, wind, angled green, steep fall offs around green, and the green complex itself. In the case of #16 I think they used to have a greenside bunker but removed it. Two of them are 'easy' off the tee due to nothing in the landing area, but all 3 are just as interesting around the green as holes with bunkers.

 

I agree with Dave, in that I like to use them off the tee for lining up off of and in a lot of cases they do help make for a more aesthetically pleasing hole.

And again like Mr. 043, I couldn't apply any sort of formula to what would make up my 'ideal' course.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Used to belong to a course that had zero bunkers ... Built in the 70s, kept maintenance costs down. Course was tree lined with fairly small greens, not the best course, but after awhile, you didn't miss the sand. A lot of first time players wouldn't notice until you mentioned it to them.

Driver #1: Callaway Epic Max LS, 9°

Driver #2: Adams Speedline F11, 9.5°

Fairway: Callaway Rogue ST Max LS, 18°

Utility Iron: Titleist 718 AP3, 19°

Irons: Titleist 718 AP1, 5-GW, 24°-48°
UW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 52°F

LW: Titleist Vokey SM8, 60°D
Putter: Cameron Studio Style Newport 2.5, 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B RX
Bag: Sun Mountain Metro Sunday Bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think bunkers work well when there is no other way to challenge the player. A course with as much land movement and severe greens as Augusta would be pretty good if you took out every single bunker. For example, do the bunkers on 16 help in any way? If you're right or long, that chip is so hard coming down the slope. The bunker in front just keep balls out of the pond.

 

Similarly, the extremely penal pot bunkers at St. Andrews fit the course because the ground is pretty flat on a macro scale. How do you keep a player from playing to the optimal side of the fairway to approach a pin? Put a pot bunker there. I guess my ideal number of bunkers (in theory) is zero because I could be challenged by other features like ground slopes. In practice, good bunkers make you think about the shot more before you hit. So if the bunker isn't making you rethink a shot or at least influencing a decision, it's probably not a good one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although I never thought of it, I just played the whole course in my head...

 

Zero holes are bunker free.

 

Only two holes have tee shots without bunkers in play, every hole has green side bunkers in play.

 

Damn that's a lot of sand!

 

Very similar to my home course. Bunkers on every hole, only one has no bunkers in play off the tee. It makes up for it with OB left and trees right.

Ping G430 LST 10.5* : Ventus Red TR 7S

Titleist TSR2 4W : Tensei 1K Black 85-S

Mizuno CLK 19*: Ventus Blue HB-8S

Srixon ZX Utility #4: Nippon Modus3 125-S

Wilson Staff CB 5-PW : Nippon Modus3 125-S

Cleveland Zipcore 50, 54, 58: Nippon Modus3 125-S 

Piretti Potenza 370g : Breakthrough Technology Stability Shaft - 34"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My home course has bunkers on every hole, but some of them are not really in play. Now if you ask anyone in Northern VA if it's one of the better courses in the area they'd say no, so I think that bunkering can add to a course substantially, but another bunker isn't going to make ANGC any more of an incredible course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My home course has bunkers on every hole, but some of them are not really in play. Now if you ask anyone in Northern VA if it's one of the better courses in the area they'd say no, so I think that bunkering can add to a course substantially, but another bunker isn't going to make ANGC any more of an incredible course.

I'm in Northern VA, which course is it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could remove 80% of the bunkers at my course and never miss them. There is severe water trouble every single hole plus trees, waste areas and elevated multi tier greens. And yes, bunkers every hole without fail. So why did they just put in a 50 foot long bunker down the left side of #1 fairway that starts 230 yards off the mens tee? Genius! Oh yeah, they also changed a 440 yard par 4 into a par 5 on the card. I hope the place gets re rated soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OP I see you are out in the East Bay. Metropolitan - which used to be my local course - has 3 bunkerless par 4 holes that are protected by some combination of length, wind, angled green, steep fall offs around green, and the green complex itself. In the case of #16 I think they used to have a greenside bunker but removed it. Two of them are 'easy' off the tee due to nothing in the landing area, but all 3 are just as interesting around the green as holes with bunkers.

 

I agree with Dave, in that I like to use them off the tee for lining up off of and in a lot of cases they do help make for a more aesthetically pleasing hole.

And again like Mr. 043, I couldn't apply any sort of formula to what would make up my 'ideal' course.

 

Yeah I was thinking about Callippe myself, where the bunkerless hole is #11, that straight uphill one with drops to both sides and a blind green. Also lake chabot, which has on the order of 8-10 bunkers for the full course but brutal elevation swings as its defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My home course has bunkers on every hole, but some of them are not really in play. Now if you ask anyone in Northern VA if it's one of the better courses in the area they'd say no, so I think that bunkering can add to a course substantially, but another bunker isn't going to make ANGC any more of an incredible course.

I'm in Northern VA, which course is it?

 

Herndon Centennial, it's not a bad course by any means but not up there with the Stonewalls and Westfields at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My home course has bunkers on every hole, but some of them are not really in play. Now if you ask anyone in Northern VA if it's one of the better courses in the area they'd say no, so I think that bunkering can add to a course substantially, but another bunker isn't going to make ANGC any more of an incredible course.

I'm in Northern VA, which course is it?

 

Herndon Centennial, it's not a bad course by any means but not up there with the Stonewalls and Westfields at all.

I've always liked Herndon, when I was playing public courses I felt like it was generally in good shape, and challenging enough. Certainly the newer upscale public courses have surpassed it, but for the price its a really good place to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three bunkerless holes on my home course.

 

They all had at least one bunker in the past.

 

On two of the holes natural contours are the defence. Both those holes have narrow greens and one side you absolutely can't miss on.

 

The other bunkerless hole was easy before and it's easier now.

 

 

Played Braemar various times. It has no sand bunkers, but you can see where they used to be. It's the highest 18 hole course in the UK and the wind just used to blast the sand out of the bunkers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are a few fine examples of courses with no bunkers at all over here in the UK; Royal Ashdown Forest Golf Club (East Sussex) and Berkhamsted (Hertfordshire).

Royal Ashdown is a great track. Obviously going in you know it's a bunkerless course, but it's a cliche - allbeit a true one - that you don't really notice the lack of bunkers once you are playing. It's just a bunch of solid golf holes, up and down and around some hills.

[url="http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTOZNxdsDKajrKxaUCRjcU8eB7URcAMpaCWN-67Bt6QG8rmBUPYW3QAQ7k87BlYizIMKJzEhuzqr9OQ/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true"]WITB[/url] | [url="http://tinyurl.com/CoursesPlayedList"]Courses Played list[/url] |  [url="http://tinyurl.com/25GolfingFaves"] 25 Faves [/url]

F.T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was trying to remember bunkerless holes from my various golf travels, and a few come to mind:

#14 at Royal Dornoch

#11 at Ballybunion Old (I think)

#12 at Tralee

#4 and 5 at Lahinch

#18 at the Old Course

I know there are more, but I can't see how a bunker would improve any of these. On the other hand, they're the exception on each course, not the norm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s a weird one....There’s a course called Tobacco Road close to Pinehurst that has zero bunkers....but they have sand on every hole. They call them waste areas as you drive the carts thru almost all of them as you work your way thru the course. If you ever played there you’d know what I mean. Heck of a track...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the best designed courses are the ones that put hazards in play to affect the golfers options, not just because. I've played courses with very few bunkers that are just as hard as courses with them scattered everywhere. Grass bunkers, water hazards, mounds, sloping fairways and greens, very large greens, and tree-lined fairways can make for just as much challenge as a bunker shot. Honestly, sand shots don't scare me like they do some. I'd much rather have a bunked lined fairway than a tight-chute type tree-lined tee shot into the wind with water left and OB right. Now that's scary!!!!

TaylorMade M3 w/HZRDUS Yellow stiff
TaylorMade M4 Tour 3 wood w/HZRDUS Red stiff
TaylorMade M3 2 hybrid (set to 19*) w/HZRDUS Black stiff
Srixon U65 4i Miyazaki Stiff
Srixon 765 5-PW Modus 120 Stiff
Cleveland RTX 3.0 50*, 54*, and 58* KBS 61
TaylorMade Spider Black

Gameball: Vice Pro Plus, Srixon Q Star Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting question. We've had several bunkers removed because they "weren't in play." Except I've found that area several times(it's still obvious where a bunker was.) Things are in play for the longer hitters, but apparently we represent a small percentage of the members.

 

One thing that bunkers sometimes do though is catch balls that would go OB. We have one green in particular where the back of it is pretty close against the OB stakes. one of the bunkers left has been taken out, and balls that used to stay in that bunker bounce out of there and disappear. I agree that framing a hole is a poor use for a bunker due to the cost it brings in(Arthur Hills loves using them to give aiming points), but you have to be careful not to get too in love with removing bunkers and removing the strategy in doing so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here’s a weird one....There’s a course called Tobacco Road close to Pinehurst that has zero bunkers....but they have sand on every hole. They call them waste areas as you drive the carts thru almost all of them as you work your way thru the course. If you ever played there you’d know what I mean. Heck of a track...

 

I was going to say the same thing. It is a technicality, but The Ocean Course is the same way. Obviously, not what OP was going for though haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

There are a few fine examples of courses with no bunkers at all over here in the UK; Royal Ashdown Forest Golf Club (East Sussex) and Berkhamsted (Hertfordshire).

Royal Ashdown is a great track. Obviously going in you know it's a bunkerless course, but it's a cliche - allbeit a true one - that you don't really notice the lack of bunkers once you are playing. It's just a bunch of solid golf holes, up and down and around some hills.

 

One of my absolute favourite courses on the planet has no bunkers. Working from this angle I figure bunkers are terribly over-rated in creating interesting courses and have essentially become a design crutch. If archies worked off the premise of design feature balance a course with over 50 bunkers would be a rarity.

 

Ciao

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My course has four holes with no bunkers. Course waa built in the late 60s I believe then revamped in the late 80s with houses added.

 

The 4 with no bunkers all bring there own set of challenges without bunkers. One of the par 3s that has a bunker on the back of the green to catch your ball.I dont mind that bunker as the rough is treacherous leaving a very hard chip.

 

I dont mind strategically placed sand, but Im not a fan of mutiple bunkers around the green and in the fairways of every hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 9 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...