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The real reason golfers don’t get better with practice


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Hey folks...consider this: About a year ago my pro told me to start playing with folks that are better, or way better than me. He thinks it's kinda like tennis, playing with better players improves one's game. He said (and I know all too well) that the guys who play with the same group tend to not improve. He said imagine playing with Couples, Woods, Johnson all the time....he said I'd learn more in two rounds than in years of lessons.

 

Absolutely. This is why in today's competitive athletic climate it's more important for middle school and high school athletes to play on travel clubs then their own schools athletic teams if they have desires of playing their sport at the college or professional level. Talent pool and competition expands greatly with travel teams.

 

The challenges for the poorer golfer to be welcomed to play with better golfers are:

 

1. Slow play

2. Poor etiquette

3. Slow play

 

I play with folks who are +20 cappers at times and while they do hit more shots, they keep the pace...but you're right, too many shots will be tough for guys on the green waiting. But I can say they learn etiquette much faster because the good players demand it. But what they should do is play appropriate tee boxes.

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Hey folks...consider this: About a year ago my pro told me to start playing with folks that are better, or way better than me. He thinks it's kinda like tennis, playing with better players improves one's game. He said (and I know all too well) that the guys who play with the same group tend to not improve. He said imagine playing with Couples, Woods, Johnson all the time....he said I'd learn more in two rounds than in years of lessons.

 

also why tourney play is good. I like analysing other good mid-ams I play with to see where I need to put in the effort to continue to improve.

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I agree with people posting about unrealistic expectations. Scratch+ level golf looks effortless, ball is sitting there not moving, everyone thinks they can master the game if they just put in the time. Or that you can get better at putting by spending an hour each day aimlessly hitting putts. "Bad practice" prob only gets you to sub 15 or so handicap. Beyond that, you better get good at practicing whether it's on the course or on the range. I'm guilty of a bad practice, and that's partly because I enjoy banging balls and messing around on practice green. I don't expect to get better wailing on 7 irons for an hour but I enjoy it.

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Golf is an imperfect fit for human beings. Some are better than others but no one is perfect. That is the challenge. We all excel differently physically and mentally. Do you best. Practice. Don't compare. Be happy.

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Golfers would get better if she was the instructor....I know for sure they'd show up for the lesson.

 

Frankly I’d buy the package of eight. With the slow-mo video analysis.

 

What if she teed the ball for you...very slowly? 180 pack of lessons? LOL!

 

Your avatar reminds me of a trainer I had back in London. It was the only time I was ever motivated to do assisted stretching... Anyway, what was I saying?

 

Funny thing about improving is we golfers generally suck at setting goals, practicing with a purpose to achieve those goals, and measuring improvement toward those goals. I'm as guilty as anyone... I struggle to pick one thing to improve and then go about a methodical way to improve it. Some other flaw or some other fix always catches my eye in the meantime, and I change course. I'm definitely better than I used to be at staying the course, but am by no means ideal in that respect. With a haphazard approach I should expect haphazard results.

 

Oh, and to answer your question: 180 lessons, plus weekly myofascial work...

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Nothing of importance just WOW regarding FourTops avatar. :beach:

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Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

 

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

 

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean? Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

 

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

 

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

 

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

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Felt pretty good about my putting session today.

 

30 minutes spent on my EyeLine - as I'm currently working on changes in my setup

- 12' with a little left to right break

- after I got in a groove had to make 10 in a row before moving on

 

Then moved on to the clock drill. Had to make all 6 from 4' before I could leave.

 

Good constructive practice with a little added pressure.

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Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

 

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

 

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean? Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

 

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

 

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

 

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

 

that is really well put, thx.

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Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

 

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

 

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean? Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

 

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

 

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

 

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

 

that is really well put, thx.

 

Learning how to do this has lead to the best golf I've ever played under pressure in my life. I'm 51, with a horrible back and left hip, I'm playing once or twice a week, max, and I'm shooting scores almost as good in competition as I did when I was 35 - 40 and playing 3 to 4 times a week.

 

Everyone has different "buggaboos," but for those of us out there who can tend to be a bit on the anxious side when they golf, learning to do this will be an amazing breakthrough.

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Definitely abeliever in this type of thinking, not just for golf purposes. Haven't seen much on how to attain it though. Any resources out there?

 

Had a look around and found this for you;

 

https://www.trainingzone.co.uk/develop/talent/meta-awareness-the-third-building-block-of-mindfulness

 

This is the link in para 4. which are the exercises

 

https://mindtime.me/listen.php

All comments are made from the point of
view of my learning and not a claim
to expertise.

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Definitely abeliever in this type of thinking, not just for golf purposes. Haven't seen much on how to attain it though. Any resources out there?

 

Had a look around and found this for you;

 

https://www.trainingzone.co.uk/develop/talent/meta-awareness-the-third-building-block-of-mindfulness

 

This is the link in para 4. which are the exercises

 

https://mindtime.me/listen.php

 

Thanks!

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Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

 

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

 

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean? Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

 

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

 

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

 

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

 

What if you're talking to yourself with joy and positivity? Why does it have to be negative self talk?

 

So, you talk to the yourself with positive thoughts as you watch the ball land and you let that feedback, that feeling absorb you. No objectivity needed as it's pure, true and pleasurable.

 

Easy to understand.

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Do you absorb your feedback or does your feedback absorb you?

 

If you're a self talking, judgemental type it absorbs you.

 

Seriously jbw, what does this even mean? Sounds like you're being judgemental about feedback and how it should be absorbed.

 

If you are talking to yourself in disappointment before the ball lands you are letting the feedback absorb you.

 

If you objectively watch and feel what happens you absorb the feedback.

 

Not hard to understand, but not many do.

 

What if you're talking to yourself with joy and positivity? Why does it have to be negative self talk?

 

So, you talk to the yourself with positive thoughts as you watch the ball land and you let that feedback, that feeling absorb you. No objectivity needed as it's pure, true and pleasurable.

 

Easy to understand.

 

Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

 

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

 

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

 

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

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Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

 

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

 

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

 

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

 

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later? How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory? One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk. Or do you recall nothing?

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IMO - A great many people have either negative or positive bias in their perceptions. You know glass half empty or full. It's their bias and or fears that get in the way of learning. Very few people come to golf with a neutral frame of mind.

 

The other psychological aspect I've encountered in sports and business has to do with "fear of failure." People anticipate the magnitude of continually scoring low then not scoring low, or what comes with being an executive and possibly failing, so they subconsciously get in their way of progress to prevent improvement. :beach:

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Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

 

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

 

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

 

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

 

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later? How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory? One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk. Or do you recall nothing?

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear: you are definitely judging the outcome of the shot, related to your precise intention. You are learning from the bad ones and positively imprinting the good ones ("THAT'S the way you hit a low cut. Yes!!")

 

The beginning of the original article in this thread lays out a solid process very well.

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Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

 

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

 

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

 

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

 

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later? How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory? One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk. Or do you recall nothing?

 

It's relaxed confidence without over confidence. Stripping ball after ball knowing your winning the mental and physical game gives you the satisfaction, NOT the outcome of the shot.

This relaxed confidence is basically being "In the Zone" anyone who's actually been there knows they weren't over confident, but had no doubts either. You're on auto pilot. People who have been there and then lost it think it was some anomaly. It's not you were in the present, confident in your abilities yet not concerned with the outcome of the shot.

 

It's very difficult especially when your learning the mental game to stay in the present when you are judging the outcome of shots good or bad. Judging anything can pull you from the present very fast.

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Talking to oneself with joy and positivity is not the same as dispassionately observing, which should be the goal, IMHO.

 

In other words, if I think to myself, "What a lovely shot and I daresay what a lovely day it is today" as my ball over-hooks into the water to a tucked left pin, then I've done nothing that will help me get better in the future.

 

The goal is not to be "positive," it's to be aware -- the entire time from the "think box" to the "play box" and while the ball is in the air, all the way until the ball has stopped moving (and beyond, if you want to keep extending it).

 

We can't learn if we're not paying attention. And we can't pay attention if we're filling our heads with sayings, positive or negative. :-)

 

Interesting perspective, which then leads to the question if you place no value, no judgement on the quality of the shot you just hit, how do you memory bank it for recall later? How do you transfer that feel, that feedback to your memory? One will often recall a positive experience, if they have one in their memory, before hitting a successful shot (i.e. " I love this shot, I just had the same shot two holes ago, or last week on this hole, or I was hitting this club on the range and grooving it.") as opposed to the person who recalls the ball that over hooked into the water and then proceeds to over hook their next shot into the junk. Or do you recall nothing?

 

It's relaxed confidence without over confidence. Stripping ball after ball knowing your winning the mental and physical game gives you the satisfaction, NOT the outcome of the shot.

This relaxed confidence is basically being "In the Zone" anyone who's actually been there knows they weren't over confident, but had no doubts either. You're on auto pilot. People who have been there and then lost it think it was some anomaly. It's not you were in the present, confident in your abilities yet not concerned with the outcome of the shot.

 

It's very difficult especially when your learning the mental game to stay in the present when you are judging the outcome of shots good or bad. Judging anything can pull you from the present very fast.

 

jbw...what does "stay in the present" mean? Aren't we all in the present when we step up to a shot? I know there's the "forget about the past and future" but isn't that asking too much? If we are not to think about past or future events...what do we think about? I know some say to focus on the shot...visualize...but that seems like a tall order with a side hill lie with a 5 iron.

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I really think it comes down to most people who struggle with something keep trying the same thing without making changes. One doesn’t magically get a different result if they tried it 50 times in a row. The lack of experimentation by players when they are practicing and the awareness to reflect on what produced success and didn’t is huge.

 

Instruction can be great but not all instructors are helpful. Experimentation is a huge instructor in itself and taking notes can really help as well.

 

A good instructor also can help cut the growth curve down by a lot.

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Speaking for myself, I would guess 95% of practice over last 3 decades had nothing to do with improving. Also, the disparity of both what I thought was correct in terms of causation and effect and what I thought I was doing and actually doing was immense. Garbage in/garbage out. Practice does not improve but perfect practice does. Perfect can be defined as putting patient, concerted effort into moving the needle in a positive way based on sober realities of what truly needs fixing and mapping a path to get there. Not seen it in this thread, but reps matter, thousands not hundreds, sticking through a cycle for 1 change and dealing with how that effects other things too can be daunting to endure, so fall back and reverting to norm or old ways is easily done. Two steps forward, one step back. 'Bleed in' of improvement is a huge impediment.

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  • 1 year later...

I recently saw a video on changing one's swing, and it recommended that you take more time between range shots. Additionally, it specified to make a sandwich of rehearsal swings (depending on what you're aiming to change). This sandwich consisted of a good rehearsal, and then the bad old swing, and then another good rehearsal before you hit the ball.

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      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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