I Think My Golfing Days are Over. :(

[platgof]

Rest up my friend and hope you make it back. I have been really struggling this year, with hip, shoulder, and neck pain. It takes a week to recover now, and not everything. I play graphite shafts, forward tees(gold, not red yet,) and try to keep it to nine holes only, because I really feel it playing 18. Don't laugh at us old guys for playing the forward tees, as that is all we have!! My biggest problem is I need to slow my swing down and not try to hit a long one, as I pay dearly later on.

[Swisstrader98]

I'm reminded of a joke from long ago (paraphrasing here):

 

Man goes to his doctor and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this". And the Doc replies "Well then don't do that."

 

FYI, I'm not a fan of doctors. Haven't been for some time. My father was killed by one, as was a good friend. Then, when a doctor friend recommended one time that I "never go to a hospital without having your affairs in order" it kinda sunk in. But I digress...

 

Not willing to go to a doctor?? Cmon man, this is 2018, not the years of bloodletting?

 

This is a big part of your problem. You have medical issues but not willing to go to someone who specializes in medicine so you then self diagnose and decide golf is the reason?? Sorry bro, makes zero sense. Real talk

[Rohlio]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven’t missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn’t work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a “bad back” I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn’t always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

[TheGeekGolfer]

If you want to keep playing, look at what might be causing the pain. I was not able to play or hit balls a few years ago. I lost a bit of weight, learned some great stretching routines, and took a look at my swing.

 

There are things you can do in your swing to alleviate pain. If it's a hip issue, try a step through finish (see Gary Player video). Also flare your left foot , open or closing your stance can help also.

[platgof]

He said he did not have insurance if I read correctly, and his budget has been hit hard. What a shame as we don't take care of those who really need it. Some home remedies are in order here besides specialized(expensive) help. I guess rest and stretches are in order, along with time. Most of us don't like the concept that eventually we may be in the same boat.

[hybrid25]

I started seriously getting back into golf earlier this year after a short layoff, and was looking forward to playing for years to come. Especially since I am now retired.

 

Then the back and hip issues started. And got worse. I finally had to stop swinging a club about two months ago, as I was having difficulty walking and was to the point where I couldn't even sit on the couch or sleep on my side without some serious hip and sciatic pain.

 

Now, after about two months, I'm pain free. Weird. All I did was stop swinging golf clubs. I can now walk without pain and have not had any lower back/hip/sciatic issues for a couple of weeks now.

 

So I guess I'll use the winter months to take inventory and get my clubs and club building stuff ready for sale when we get closer to spring. And I was having such fun with my MP18s. *sigh*

 

This really sucks, as I have been a hard-core golfer for many, many years. I guess I'll have to bury myself in my pistolsmithing and shooting to make up for the loss. :(

You sound a bit like me, but I am able to play golf yet even though I have a shoulder that could probably use surgery, but it's been like that for 25 years now. I also enjoy shooting pistol and reloading, so that's what I get involved in the offseason during cold winter months.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven't missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn't work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a "bad back" I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn't always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Even though it ignores the fact that OP talks about hip and sciatic pain? It isn't just back pain and IMHO OP should have hip x-ray / scans which will at least give him a proper diagnosis on the health of that area which may well be the cause of ALL the symptoms.

[torbill]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven’t missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn’t work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a “bad back” I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn’t always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Thanks.

 

I’ve had a couple of additional thoughts since I wrote that. So, here is another long one that will bore most people but that might reach serious back pain sufferers like me:

 

First, on digging out of the hole on serious back pain, which is where I was: One of the key, core strengthening exercises that I do is called the Plank, where you lay face down and then support your core on your elbows and toes, bridge-like. I was coming out of a such a painful situation that when I first did this I could only do it for five seconds, and then the pain was significant and I would stop. At this point I thought that my back would never be good again, as the pain was serious, it was so discouraging. I am a persistent person, so I just kept at it, ever other day or so. Gradually it got better. And better. And better. Now, I do this exercise about 4X/wk, I do it to a fast count of 600, which is probably about two minutes, and at the end there is absolutely no pain. Two minutes versus five seconds, I call that progress!! So, the message is, start slow and be persistent and patient with exercise.

 

Next, even once I started on a regular exercise program, I would stop when I felt better. Isn’t this the way that we all are - “Hey, I am better, now I can quit”. No way. You cannot stop, in my experience. Here is what changed me: A golf group traveled from our home in Southern Minnesota to an upscale course in the Twin Cities - The Meadows at Mystic Lake for those of you who are familiar. It was going to be a great outing, I was excited. I warmed up on the range. I went to the putting green. As I bent over to pick up a ball I felt a slight, thin twinge in my lower back, as though somebody had pulled a thread, no pain just a thin twinge. I thought, oh-oh. Sure enough, within five minutes my back went tight and I was done for the day, before I ever got started. My outing was ruined. I was so upset. When this sort of thing happened I knew it would be two weeks out of golf, as it had happened numerous time before, periodically. And it was two weeks to the day before I could get back to golf. At this point I said, enough, and decided that I would not stop with the exercise once I got better. This happened about 6 years ago. I have been doing my exercises religously, since. In this time I have never missed any golf due to a bad back until a few weeks ago when I tweaked it again, bending over to pick up a ball. I stopped playing, skipping nine holes. But, two days later I was ready to go again! Two days versus the previous two weeks being out of golf. And once in 6 years versus once or twice a year, before. That, to me, is the value of continuous exercise. I am going on 75 years old, for heavens sake! I was a lot younger 6 years ago, and my back is better now than then. Think about that for a minute, when you contemplate the drudgery of exercise!

 

Finally, speaking of drudgery, I do my exercise program at home, without major equipment. Floor exercises, mostly. I know from experience that if I have a program that requires that I go to the gym I will never keep it up. I just wont do it, because that’s the way I am. But if I can do it at home, in a few minutes, I will keep it up. We are all different, and this is the way I am about exercise. I don’t like exercise and I won’t go far out of my way to do it.

 

[Rohlio]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven't missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn't work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a "bad back" I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn't always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Even though it ignores the fact that OP talks about hip and sciatic pain? It isn't just back pain and IMHO OP should have hip x-ray / scans which will at least give him a proper diagnosis on the health of that area which may well be the cause of ALL the symptoms.

 

I treat referred and sciatic pain every single day. Every single bit of peer reviewedresearch evidence produced in the past twenty years tells us that X-rays and MRI's are neither a cost effective or valuable diagnostic front line intervention for back pain with radicular pain. I would not recommend imaging unless the patient is presenting with progressive neurologic symptoms in his LE's, and pain is not one of those.

 

In fact the vast majority of the time starting with imaging actually worsens outcomes for patients and increases their costs. So a double whammy of less effective and more expensive.

 

The biggest problem being that correlation does not equal causation, so invariably they find something on a scan, blame that as the problem and launch into a series of high cost interventions that regularly have no effect other than lightening the patients wallet.

 

In the OP's case, as a 60 yo male even non symptomatic persons who are given an Xray or MRI will manifest anatomic deviations, for example 70% of patients with no back, hip or LE pain will demonstrate a Disc Bulge or herniation. 90% will have DDD ( Degenerative disc disease). (Source: Brunkjikii et al American Journal of Radiology 2014) Again these are patients with no symptoms! So just because we see those things on an image does not mean that that is the reason for the persons pain. In fact without a prior comparison MRI from when the patient was not symptomatic we can't even say if anything has changed. They are only useful when they are clinically corroborated and when the patient has already exhausted conservative care options.

 

I am certainly a biased source since I make my living treating people who have failed with other treatments but I literally deal with this every single day. The amount of money and time wasted due to imaging being overemphasized and actual Patient presentation being undervalued in the western medical model is staggering and has real negative consequence to so many patients it is a travesty.

[torbill]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven't missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn't work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a "bad back" I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn't always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Even though it ignores the fact that OP talks about hip and sciatic pain? It isn't just back pain and IMHO OP should have hip x-ray / scans which will at least give him a proper diagnosis on the health of that area which may well be the cause of ALL the symptoms.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I can’t say because I am not a medical expert.

 

I will say that I did not ignore the OP, I read the OP, and that I have personally experienced hip pain and sciatica. And no, I personally would not start with back scans and the like unless I had emergency symptoms or unless a medical doctor thought that something serious, like a tumor, might be the cause. I mean, really, WTF are they going to do if they take a scan and find a structural anomoly? Send you to surgery to have it corrected? No, of course not. They are going to start off with conservative treatment because they know that structural problems and pain are loosely correlated - they *know* this, they know that surgery for structural problems is not the place to start.

 

What I can say about hip pain from personal experience is that I have a hip implant (yes, the back hip that I load into and drive off in my swing) and when it was time for me to get a new hip the pain was coming from the groin and not the hip, and the groin I believe is more the normal presentation of pain in a bad hip joint. So, hip pain, in an of itself, could probably come from a number of sources, including the lower back or the piriformis/hip-flexors, and not a structural problem with the hip, if this is what you are thinking. I often have hip pain that I know is from the piriformis area; I know that it is musclular because my wife knows massage and can find trigger points in the hip flexors when I am in pain and give me relief. I do exercises as part of my normal routine that loosen the hip flexors and keep the pain away.

 

Sciatica, like hip pain, is pain. If there isn’t numbness anywhere, or drop foot, or loss of bowel/bladder control it probably isn’t a medical emergency. Were it me, I would rest it and use ice/heat and anti-inflammatories and see if it improves. If it improves you have something that you can work with on your own, and maybe start an exercise program and see if you can work it out. It is when the pain is debilitating or there is no improvement with rest and conservative home treatments that I would seek help - a lack of improvement over time is the key that causes me to seek outside help. If I thought that I needed outside help I would start with a trip to either a chiropractor or an acupuncturist or a medical doctor, who would write me an order to see a physical therapist. These three conservative methods - chiropractic, acupuncture, PT - have all helped me, so that is what I would personally try. And if the medical doctor or chiropractor wanted pictures or scans, that would be a negotiation, because I would want to know how that sort of thing, as opposed to starting with something conservative like rest, ice/heat, and a good set of exercises, was going to mean anything other than a hit to my wallet. It is only when there is no improvement after rest and conservative methods, or when I have a true neurological emergency symptom, that I want back pictures. This is a personal opinion, based on my own experience and nothing more.

 

I mentioned acupuncture. It is conservative. It worked for me, to help me out of the worst back problem ever - one year out of golf. I went to a traditional Chinese acupuncturist who puts needles everywhere. She is from mainland China, actually. This worked slowly, but magically. Nobody knows why it works. It is very possible that it is a placebo effect. I don’t care what makes it work. It worked. Back pain can be so strange and elusive that you just try what you can try, and hope to find something that works, and then don’t ask too many questions - nobody, and I mean *nobody*, understands the mystery of the mind/body relationship. So, I do not discount these strange methods, because there is good evidence that some of them work better than back surgery for pain, with far less risk and fewer adverse effects.

 

[Mych]

Good luck... my plan is to play golf until my body tells me to sit down, then move my golf budget over to a couple of regular poker games.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven't missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn't work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a "bad back" I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn't always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Even though it ignores the fact that OP talks about hip and sciatic pain? It isn't just back pain and IMHO OP should have hip x-ray / scans which will at least give him a proper diagnosis on the health of that area which may well be the cause of ALL the symptoms.

 

I treat referred and sciatic pain every single day. Every single bit of peer reviewedresearch evidence produced in the past twenty years tells us that X-rays and MRI's are neither a cost effective or valuable diagnostic front line intervention for back pain with radicular pain. I would not recommend imaging unless the patient is presenting with progressive neurologic symptoms in his LE's, and pain is not one of those.

 

In fact the vast majority of the time starting with imaging actually worsens outcomes for patients and increases their costs. So a double whammy of less effective and more expensive.

 

The biggest problem being that correlation does not equal causation, so invariably they find something on a scan, blame that as the problem and launch into a series of high cost interventions that regularly have no effect other than lightening the patients wallet.

 

In the OP's case, as a 60 yo male even non symptomatic persons who are given an Xray or MRI will manifest anatomic deviations, for example 70% of patients with no back, hip or LE pain will demonstrate a Disc Bulge or herniation. 90% will have DDD ( Degenerative disc disease). (Source: Brunkjikii et al American Journal of Radiology 2014) Again these are patients with no symptoms! So just because we see those things on an image does not mean that that is the reason for the persons pain. In fact without a prior comparison MRI from when the patient was not symptomatic we can't even say if anything has changed. They are only useful when they are clinically corroborated and when the patient has already exhausted conservative care options.

 

I am certainly a biased source since I make my living treating people who have failed with other treatments but I literally deal with this every single day. The amount of money and time wasted due to imaging being overemphasized and actual Patient presentation being undervalued in the western medical model is staggering and has real negative consequence to so many patients it is a travesty.

 

You keep focussing on the back pain and back x-rays, etc. I might not be a medic or physio but I have had multiple hip surgeries and been through the process in detail. I have not been suggesting back scans or X-rays but hip scans and x-rays are proven to be an invaluable source of information for the relative condition of the hip and should be the first step for anyone presenting with hip problems. Hip related sciatica is equally well established.

[Rohlio]

Argee1977, I think that you are on the right track.

 

I have had a bad back from golf for longer than I can remember, over 30 years. Now I am 74, play 3X/wk and haven't missed a day of golf in several years, except for 9 holes a few weeks ago when I tweaked it standing over a putt.

 

I have learn a lot about backs in 30 years. Early on I did a lot of study, as none of the simple stuff seemed to help. I read a number of books and did a lot of research and tried a lot of things. Here are the keys to what I learned, and absolutely nothing has changed since, as near as I can tell:

 

First, the really serious signs of neuroligical problems that can become permanent - and that need to be seen right away by a medical doctor - are numbness, loss of bowel/bladder control, drop foot. Back pain, per se, is not one of these things.

 

Second, there is not good correlation between back pain and back anatomy. There are countless situations in which a terrible back x-ray, with spurs, herniated/bulging herniated disks, and so forth cause no pain, no problems. Conversely, there are countless situations in which the patient has debilitating back pain and a perfect back picture.

 

Third, of the endless back pain remedies, the one that works best for the greatest number of people is... yoga. I read this in a book that had the best information ever, and it was so long ago that I cannot remember the name of the book. But, in looking back, this book nailed my lifetime of back pain experience better than any other, and what it told me is consistent with more up-to-date sources. From memory, I think that yoga was best, physical therapy and acupuncture were up there, deep tissue massage/trigger-point/rolfing were good. Surgery and chiropractic were similar in effectiveness and were in the middle of the pack.

 

My conclusions were, and are, as follows:

 

First, do not normally get a scan or x-ray if all you have is pain. The doc will tell you that you have Anomoly X and this will cause your muscles to tighten from tension (good God, I have Anomoly X, I have a structural problem!!) and make things worse.

 

Second, physical conditioning - strength and flexibility - are important, the evidence being that yoga and PT work in many cases. I would add to this to get rid of those extra pounds, they just make it all worse.

 

Third, the causes of back pain, in spite of all you have read and heard, are not well understood. The mind/body relationship is as mysterious now as it was in the time Aristotle - literally. Why do you think that they always have to ask you what your pain level is? Answer: because pain is a mental experience that only you know about, there is no objective test that can tell you how much pain you are having. The implication of this is profound. What it means is that science and medicine can only deal with correlations between physical events/conditions in the body and your mental experience of them. Your doctor can only say that any given back anomoly often CORRELATES with what many other patients report for pain - but often it does not. This is why medicine is so hit and miss on back pain; they are dealing with correlations that may not represent causes and solutions. This is as the root of why so many people are frustrated with doctors and back pain - the deep mystery of the mind/body relationship.

 

Fourth, given the above, if you have back pain your best approach is to understand what remedies have enjoyed some success with back pain sufferers, try them one by one, give them time, and go to the next one if the first one doesn't work.

 

I hope that my long experience of pain gives some ideas to back pain sufferers who read this. I missed one full year of golf with excruciating back pain that seemed like it was going to end my golf days and ruin my life. I got out of it with chiropractic, followed by acupuncture, followed by physical conditioning - that was the worst! I now keep my back strong and flexible. Yes I now have back pain, but it does not interfere with my life and my golf in the least, knock on wood. And great physical condition of my back is crucial to keep pain and missed golf at bay. Even with a "bad back" I walk the golf course, I play to a low handicap, I hit the ball nearly as far as ever (due in good part to modern golf equipment), life is good. It wasn't always this way.

 

as a physical therapist who primarily treats back pain, I cannot endorse this post enough.

 

Even though it ignores the fact that OP talks about hip and sciatic pain? It isn't just back pain and IMHO OP should have hip x-ray / scans which will at least give him a proper diagnosis on the health of that area which may well be the cause of ALL the symptoms.

 

I treat referred and sciatic pain every single day. Every single bit of peer reviewedresearch evidence produced in the past twenty years tells us that X-rays and MRI's are neither a cost effective or valuable diagnostic front line intervention for back pain with radicular pain. I would not recommend imaging unless the patient is presenting with progressive neurologic symptoms in his LE's, and pain is not one of those.

 

In fact the vast majority of the time starting with imaging actually worsens outcomes for patients and increases their costs. So a double whammy of less effective and more expensive.

 

The biggest problem being that correlation does not equal causation, so invariably they find something on a scan, blame that as the problem and launch into a series of high cost interventions that regularly have no effect other than lightening the patients wallet.

 

In the OP's case, as a 60 yo male even non symptomatic persons who are given an Xray or MRI will manifest anatomic deviations, for example 70% of patients with no back, hip or LE pain will demonstrate a Disc Bulge or herniation. 90% will have DDD ( Degenerative disc disease). (Source: Brunkjikii et al American Journal of Radiology 2014) Again these are patients with no symptoms! So just because we see those things on an image does not mean that that is the reason for the persons pain. In fact without a prior comparison MRI from when the patient was not symptomatic we can't even say if anything has changed. They are only useful when they are clinically corroborated and when the patient has already exhausted conservative care options.

 

I am certainly a biased source since I make my living treating people who have failed with other treatments but I literally deal with this every single day. The amount of money and time wasted due to imaging being overemphasized and actual Patient presentation being undervalued in the western medical model is staggering and has real negative consequence to so many patients it is a travesty.

 

You keep focussing on the back pain and back x-rays, etc. I might not be a medic or physio but I have had multiple hip surgeries and been through the process in detail. I have not been suggesting back scans or X-rays but hip scans and x-rays are proven to be an invaluable source of information for the relative condition of the hip and should be the first step for anyone presenting with hip problems. Hip related sciatica is equally well established.

 

The hip is always part of my differential diagnosis for any lower extremity pain. A simple clinical exam would cover the hip as well as the lumbar spine, they are kissing cousins and a problem in one typically presents with a problem in the other. We have the same problem imaging the hip as the lumbar spine, viz. that anatomical anomalies are normal and causation cannot be established with films alone. I have seen hundreds of patients who had their hip replaced because the image showed it was "bone on bone" only to have their symptoms utterly unchanged and often times worsened due to the newly acquired weakness.

 

Also I have no idea what you mean by "hip sciatica". The hip can very often refer pain into the buttocks, groin thigh and even knee and ankle area, but that is not sciatica. Sciatica is by it's definition involving the sciatic nerve. It is possible to have mechanical interaction between the hip and the sciatic nerve, but that is a different thing entirely.

 

Based on the minimal subjective information provided by the patient if there is a single pain driver (which I doubt in this case as problems are always dynamic, multifactorial and must also include biopsychosocial factors) it is most likely the back and not the hip. Either way without prior comparison films any scans at this point would not be able to make a diagnosis in isolation that would lead to any certainty about what that pain driver is. In short films at this point would be a single data point...and a particularly expensive one, that would provide basically no actionable information to the OP.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

 

The hip is always part of my differential diagnosis for any lower extremity pain. A simple clinical exam would cover the hip as well as the lumbar spine, they are kissing cousins and a problem in one typically presents with a problem in the other. We have the same problem imaging the hip as the lumbar spine, viz. that anatomical anomalies are normal and causation cannot be established with films alone. I have seen hundreds of patients who had their hip replaced because the image showed it was "bone on bone" only to have their symptoms utterly unchanged and often times worsened due to the newly acquired weakness.

 

Also I have no idea what you mean by "hip sciatica". The hip can very often refer pain into the buttocks, groin thigh and even knee and ankle area, but that is not sciatica. Sciatica is by it's definition involving the sciatic nerve. It is possible to have mechanical interaction between the hip and the sciatic nerve, but that is a different thing entirely.

 

Based on the minimal subjective information provided by the patient if there is a single pain driver (which I doubt in this case as problems are always dynamic, multifactorial and must also include biopsychosocial factors) it is most likely the back and not the hip. Either way without prior comparison films any scans at this point would not be able to make a diagnosis in isolation that would lead to any certainty about what that pain driver is. In short films at this point would be a single data point...and a particularly expensive one, that would provide basically no actionable information to the OP.

 

I actually said hip related sciatica not hip sciatica. A good friend of mine recently had successful hip surgery where the hip deterioration had led to a chain of events that directly led to muscle spasming which pinched the sciatic nerve. He is now entirely pain free and just starting to play tennis again.

 

I guess equally you don't get to see the many patients that have this sort of outcome as they don't need any follow up treatment.

 

If you had an X-ray showing bone on bone overlayed with an MRI scan showing damage than I'd say the chances are pretty high you are looking in the right place, but like anything, it comes back to the skill and experience of the person that is interpreting those images to provide the diagnosis.

[Tanner25]

psst, I think the OP quit. No additional comments are needed, lol

[DevilDog]

To the OP, I am going through the same thing and I am about ready to quit. Haven't played in 6 weeks and no back pain or hip pain anymore. There's an old adage about sport that says we are all told one day we can't play whatever sport anymore. Might be 12, might be 40 or older but we are all told. I think I'm reaching that point where I am telling myself no mas. I've gotten into other things that don't hurt like yoga and biking.

[platgof]

I played yesterday and decided to take it easy and no kill it shots. I was sore afterwards, but not as bad as usual. I do have prescription muscle relaxers that really work well. I tried that bridge exercise and never again. I had a back spasm for two days! I am going to limit how much I play and keep it there. Strange thing was, I hit the ball easier and sometimes it went just as far as if I tried to kill it?????? I might be on to something here. I wonder if single length clubs would be easier on the back?

[wrmiller]

Platgof: You take care bud, and quit trying to kill the ball. That may help. ;)

 

I wasn't asking for medical advice when I posted the OP. More of a 'it hurts when I do this, but doesn't (hurt) when I don't, so I'm giving up golf.

 

I don't hurt anymore, well other than the normal ache and pains of of a sixty-something with a body that was abused quite a bit during my time in the Corps. I came to the conclusion that the pain was my body telling me that something was wrong. Taking pain meds to mask the pain so I can continue to abuse the body just doesn't make sense to me any more. I stopped playing golf, and all the pain and disability went away. So I decided to listen to the old meat sack and go pursue other interests. Not playing golf is not the end of the world, although I will miss it in the short term.

 

And life is suddenly looking up. :)

 

I need to inventory my equipment and get it ready to sell this Spring, but I will be hanging onto a couple sets 'just in case'. Hey, I learned a long time ago to never say never.

 

Hit 'em well. :D

[Tanner25]

Platgof: You take care bud, and quit trying to kill the ball. That may help. ;)

 

I wasn't asking for medical advice when I posted the OP. More of a 'it hurts when I do this, but doesn't (hurt) when I don't, so I'm giving up golf.

 

I don't hurt anymore, well other than the normal ache and pains of of a sixty-something with a body that was abused quite a bit during my time in the Corps. I came to the conclusion that the pain was my body telling me that something was wrong. Taking pain meds to mask the pain so I can continue to abuse the body just doesn't make sense to me any more. I stopped playing golf, and all the pain and disability went away. So I decided to listen to the old meat sack and go pursue other interests. Not playing golf is not the end of the world, although I will miss it in the short term.

 

And life is suddenly looking up. :)

 

I need to inventory my equipment and get it ready to sell this Spring, but I will be hanging onto a couple sets 'just in case'. Hey, I learned a long time ago to never say never.

 

Hit 'em well. :D

 

Thanks, for your service. Rah! Good Luck.

[platgof]

Yeah, I played 18 and knew better! but there were very few people on the course. I suffered for it, but that was a lot of fun. I am skipping tourneys for now as I just don't want to put myself in that situation. The R/C bug is hitting and I am going to race this weekend instead of golf. There are other things, but I will always try to play at least nine now and then to keep the skills somewhat close. At work I am doing stretches to keep limber and will continue to do that. This was a horrible year for golf, way to much rain in this part.

[ironmikes]

Good luck to the OP and glad that you are feeling better.

 

Hope everything works out good for you .

 

Will be tough when I have to give up the game but hope that I can look at other options like you have .

 

As another poster said , thank you for serving our country !

[theothertwo]

Lately, I have been thinking about what I would do if my body is no longer suitable for golf. I hope and pray that I can at least chip and putt and play 18 holes of golf chipping and putting against some of my friends. Par 36, 18 Par 2 holes of putting green golf.