Juniors and coaching

 wildcatden ·  
wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat SunflowerMembers  1258WRX Points: 665Posts: 1,258 Platinum Tees
Joined:  in Juniors/College Golf Talk #1
Trying to get a feel for what juniors are doing out there with relation to coach (or instructor or whatever relative term you want to use). I created a large range of ages, but assumed a serious junior golfer would have a coach by age 12 at a minimum so I stopped providing choices after that. Note: All polls have flaws.
Posted:

-- Just tap it in. Just tap it in. Give it a little tappy tap tap taparoo. --

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  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members  1258WRX Points: 665Posts: 1,258 Platinum Tees
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    leezer99 wrote:
    <br />
    IMO, once a month under 12 is more than enough. Any more than that and you're messing with their natural athletic ability.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Yeah, probably about right. Especially true if you don't want to spend more money than if you had saved said money for college instead. But hey, we are talking world championships and big business. ;-)
    Posted:

    -- Just tap it in. Just tap it in. Give it a little tappy tap tap taparoo. --

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  • darter79darter79 Members  891WRX Points: 303Posts: 891 Golden Tee
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    I'll give my answer here. My kid takes lessons mainly because I'm trying to get her a solid foundation for when she gets older. I'm not overly concern with her results right now as she just 8. She been taking lessons off and on since she started playing golf. She goes about once every 6 weeks. A bit more in the summer. I can say we had three coaches now the first was trash and only two me two lessons to figure that out. We finally settled on a great teacher that relates and more importantly my daughter loves and looks up to. Her improvement since working with her has been great. Her scoring average dropped over 6 shots per round by working with her but I feel that she is learning proper foundations that will set her up for long term success.
    Posted:
  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members  1258WRX Points: 665Posts: 1,258 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Dec 3, 2018 #4
    darter79 wrote:
    <br />
    I'll give my answer here. My kid takes lessons mainly because I'm trying to get her a solid foundation for when she gets older. I'm not overly concern with her results right now as she just 8. She been taking lessons off and on since she started playing golf. She goes about once every 6 weeks. A bit more in the summer. I can say we had three coaches now the first was trash and only two me two lessons to figure that out. We finally settled on a great teacher that relates and more importantly my daughter loves and looks up to. Her improvement since working with her has been great. Her scoring average dropped over 6 shots per round by working with her but I feel that she is learning proper foundations that will set her up for long term success.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Great information. Yes, my current 7YO (almost 8YO) took lessons with a group/academy and also about 1/2 dozen private 30 minute sessions when he was 6YO. We stopped when I did the math on it. His scores and results have not been as good in tournament play since stopping lessons.
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    -- Just tap it in. Just tap it in. Give it a little tappy tap tap taparoo. --

  • kekoakekoa ClubWRX  9385WRX Points: 869Handicap: 4-20Posts: 9,385 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #5
    No coach, but actively looking for one.
    Posted:
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1572WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,572 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  #6
    You need to have a good foundation the biggest reason I see to have a coach when they are young is to help develop a swing that will not result in injuries.<br />
    <br />
    I think that is the primary concern once they start to actually develop power and quite honest a coach should be focused on that first. First coach we had didn’t and it not good a good thing when you kid gets a sore back from not swinging correctly. <br />
    <br />
    A great swing hard on the body is not something you want if you can help it. Everything else has been said already and beaten to death.
    Posted:
  • Pinewood GolferPinewood Golfer Members  160WRX Points: 134Posts: 160 Fairways
    Joined:  #7
    leezer99 wrote:
    <br />
    IMO, once a month under 12 is more than enough. Any more than that and you're messing with their natural athletic ability.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Lessons can involve FAR more than swing coaching
    Posted:
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  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    kekoa wrote:
    <br />
    No coach, but actively looking for one.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Me too... sort of. Seems about this time of year (the beginning of his season- he has been off since August) over last few years I have thought more and more about getting a coach involved on a regular basis. Then once the season gets underway and by spring he is back playing very well again I decide to proceed on my own. We've had a lesson here and there over the years with a few guys, but none that really jumped out as a great fit. Still trying to figure out the best time to engage someone and who the best one in our area will be. Following these coaching threads closely for guidance on how / when to proceed.
    Posted:
  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    Anyone have to do a bit of traveling outside your city to see the right instructor? I guess if we’re seeing them 2x/6 weeks or so then up to a few hour drive may not be all that bad for the right fit. Been researching teachers a lot lately and finding some folks worth looking at but they are up to 2 hours away.
    Posted:
  • jj9000jj9000 ClubWRX  2742WRX Points: 499Posts: 2,742 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #10
    2 hours per lesson seems like a lot of windshield time.<br />
    <br />
    Have you looked into getting a video lesson from Dan or Monte?<br />
    <br />
    It's not face-to-face, but both of those guys are top notch. They'd likely spot 1-2 problem areas to work on, then you'd clean them up at the range.<br />
    <br />
    Just another option.
    Posted:
  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    jj9000 wrote:
    <br />
    2 hours per lesson seems like a lot of windshield time.<br />
    <br />
    Have you looked into getting a video lesson from Dan or Monte?<br />
    <br />
    It's not face-to-face, but both of those guys are top notch. They'd likely spot 1-2 problem areas to work on, then you'd clean them up at the range.<br />
    <br />
    Just another option.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    have not. How can I find them. Do you happen to know website? Last names? Thanks.
    Posted:
  • jj9000jj9000 ClubWRX  2742WRX Points: 499Posts: 2,742 ClubWRX
    Joined:  edited Dec 7, 2018 #12
    <br />
    jj9000 wrote:
    <br />
    2 hours per lesson seems like a lot of windshield time.<br />
    <br />
    Have you looked into getting a video lesson from Dan or Monte?<br />
    <br />
    It's not face-to-face, but both of those guys are top notch. They'd likely spot 1-2 problem areas to work on, then you'd clean them up at the range.<br />
    <br />
    Just another option.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    have not. How can I find them. Do you happen to know website? Last names? Thanks.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Both Dan and Monte are on this site. <br />
    <br />
    Dan Carraher / Monte Sheinblum<br />
    <br />
    Dan spends a good amount of time in the Jr. forum (here). He goes by the handle "iteachgolf".<br />
    <br />
    Monte spends a good amount of time in the Instruction forum. He goes by the handle "MonteSheinblum".<br />
    <br />
    Both guys teach, or have taught, PGA Pros, Top Ams, and Top Jr's.<br />
    <br />
    Shoot either or both a PM, and they'll be able to get you fixed up.
    Posted:
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3800WRX Points: 1,109Posts: 3,800 Titanium Tees
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    <br />
    jj9000 wrote:
    <br />
    2 hours per lesson seems like a lot of windshield time.<br />
    <br />
    Have you looked into getting a video lesson from Dan or Monte?<br />
    <br />
    It's not face-to-face, but both of those guys are top notch. They'd likely spot 1-2 problem areas to work on, then you'd clean them up at the range.<br />
    <br />
    Just another option.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    have not. How can I find them. Do you happen to know website? Last names? Thanks.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Dan is an awesome resource to have.<br />
    <br />
    http://dancarrahergolf.com/online-lessons/
    Posted:
  • jj9000jj9000 ClubWRX  2742WRX Points: 499Posts: 2,742 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #14
    <br />
    <br />
    jj9000 wrote:
    <br />
    2 hours per lesson seems like a lot of windshield time.<br />
    <br />
    Have you looked into getting a video lesson from Dan or Monte?<br />
    <br />
    It's not face-to-face, but both of those guys are top notch. They'd likely spot 1-2 problem areas to work on, then you'd clean them up at the range.<br />
    <br />
    Just another option.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    have not. How can I find them. Do you happen to know website? Last names? Thanks.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Dan is an awesome resource to have.<br />
    <br />
    http://dancarrahergo...online-lessons/<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Thanks for including the link.<br />
    <br />
    ...and I agree...Dan is really good.<br />
    <br />
    Super laid back...and gets right to the point.
    Posted:
  • darter79darter79 Members  891WRX Points: 303Posts: 891 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #15
    Anyone have to do a bit of traveling outside your city to see the right instructor? I guess if we&#146;re seeing them 2x/6 weeks or so then up to a few hour drive may not be all that bad for the right fit. Been researching teachers a lot lately and finding some folks worth looking at but they are up to 2 hours away.
    <br />
    <br />
    Ours is an hour.depends on if you don’t mind driving or not. I think face to face is how I’d rather do it. I think online lessons it would be beneficial if using those once you have an established relationship.<br />
    <br />
    I would not start lessons with online only. I think having that relationship is almost as important as their teaching ability
    Posted:
  • Bizzle80Bizzle80 Members  148WRX Points: 65Posts: 148 Fairways
    Joined:  #16
    Moved my 6yo to private lessons as she outgrew group classes. Poor group instructors couldn’t give her help as the other 5-6 kids were club throwing and having trouble making contact. <br />
    <br />
    I’d rather pay for lessons so I don’t have to try and teach. For one...I don’t know how...and second - I’d rather be fun dad and have her learn the proper fundamentals. Her coach has really upped her game, and you can see the difference quickly with proper instruction. She is already using trackman, video review and speed meters - which she loves. She can see her swing, loves to draw the lines and boxes on the video review and trying to swing a bit faster or farther. All great feedback tools. <br />
    <br />
    Can’t recommend a good coach enough. Most important for me is I don’t want to ever be that overbearing dad...golf should be a fun activity with me and nothing more for now.
    Posted:
  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members  433WRX Points: 179Posts: 433 Greens
    Joined:  #17
    leezer99 wrote:
    <br />
    IMO, once a month under 12 is more than enough. Any more than that and you're messing with their natural athletic ability.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I encourage everyone to listen to the latest on the mark podcast regarding this...<br />
    <br />
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-mark-golf-podcast/id1096925460?mt=2&i=1000425296854<br />
    Posted:
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  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    <br />
    leezer99 wrote:
    <br />
    IMO, once a month under 12 is more than enough. Any more than that and you're messing with their natural athletic ability.<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    I encourage everyone to listen to the latest on the mark podcast regarding this...<br />
    <br />
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-mark-golf-podcast/id1096925460?mt=2&i=1000425296854<br />
    <br />
    <br />
    Good stuff, Thanks for sharing. This makes me scared to death to give my son any instruction though and hyper cautious about who I may let give him help!
    Posted:
  • Sonja HenieSonja Henie Members  299WRX Points: 111Handicap: 7.5Posts: 299 Greens
    Joined:  edited Dec 19, 2018 #19
    Just started my 12 year old with lessons, which will be infrequent. Until now he's played only casually with no technical input from me. I have another offspring playing D1 sports (not golf) with whom I took the same approach.
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  • BaitkillerBaitkiller Members  1816WRX Points: 204Handicap: YesPosts: 1,816 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Dec 19, 2018 #20
    2019 plan following a year off tournament golf.<br />
    Start both kids (13 / 15) with once a week for 4 weeks followed by once a month varied by need and coaches suggestions. Trying a new coach, he is young, energetic and hits it further than I can point. He is the head pro at the goat track we call home. I like that the first thing he did when he met the kids was to ask them what they wanted out of the coaching. This was to measure their desire. Never had an instructor ask them (or me) anything like that.
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  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    Resurecting the coaching / instructor topic - I heard another podcast with an instructor that has abandoned the old pay by hour/lesson deal. For those of you who listen to Junior Golf Blueprint with Matt Walter- he mentions it frequently. However, I am not clear on how these are set up. I've talked to a few of you offline about working in discounted package type deals with a reasonable commitment - but these new development programs seem to be a flat fee with unlimited access or close to. Is anyone familiar with how these are structured?

    Posted:
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1572WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,572 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 5, 2019 #22

    On -, @hangontight said:

    Resurecting the coaching / instructor topic - I heard another podcast with an instructor that has abandoned the old pay by hour/lesson deal. For those of you who listen to Junior Golf Blueprint with Matt Walter- he mentions it frequently. However, I am not clear on how these are set up. I've talked to a few of you offline about working in discounted package type deals with a reasonable commitment - but these new development programs seem to be a flat fee with unlimited access or close to. Is anyone familiar with how these are structured?

    This really depends on the coach/instructor and their setup. Some have academy’s other will tell you upfront. Other times you may want to say I can afford this is it okay.

    As a rule I tend to avoid the academy setup it usually more a mill then not. Someone else may had better experiences with it.

    If you have an instructor who likes your kid the money issue never is an issue. At least that is what I experienced.

    We pay by the lesson it seems to work because we get stuff we need to work on when that is accomplished we have another lesson to work on something different. They also answer our text and email anytime we have questions. Once we have enough we have enough stuff to build on we have another lesson.

    With this setup we pay much more then we used to per hour and a big reason some teachers have to charge more. The thing is our results are much better doing this then trying to just go and learn on a regular basis. We can go months between lessons so it is actually much cheaper then paying a guy $50-60 an hour seeing them every week with not much to work on on after the lesson. In a lot cases they only answer questions on the clock. The better teachers all interview their students before taking them on.

    Posted:
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  • hangontighthangontight Members  739WRX Points: 200Posts: 739 Golden Tee
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    On -, @tiger1873 said:

    On -, @hangontight said:

    Resurecting the coaching / instructor topic - I heard another podcast with an instructor that has abandoned the old pay by hour/lesson deal. For those of you who listen to Junior Golf Blueprint with Matt Walter- he mentions it frequently. However, I am not clear on how these are set up. I've talked to a few of you offline about working in discounted package type deals with a reasonable commitment - but these new development programs seem to be a flat fee with unlimited access or close to. Is anyone familiar with how these are structured?

    This really depends on the coach/instructor and their setup. Some have academy’s other will tell you upfront. Other times you may want to say I can afford this is it okay.

    As a rule I tend to avoid the academy setup it usually more a mill then not. Someone else may had better experiences with it.

    If you have an instructor who likes your kid the money issue never is an issue. At least that is what I experienced.

    We pay by the lesson it seems to work because we get stuff we need to work on when that is accomplished we have another lesson to work on something different. They also answer our text and email anytime we have questions. Once we have enough we have enough stuff to build on we have another lesson.

    With this setup we pay much more then we used to per hour and a big reason some teachers have to charge more. The thing is our results are much better doing this then trying to just go and learn on a regular basis. We can go months between lessons so it is actually much cheaper then paying a guy $50-60 an hour seeing them every week with not much to work on on after the lesson. In a lot cases they only answer questions on the clock. The better teachers all interview their students before taking them on.

    I am not talking about an academy setup. 100% one on one private lessons. The idea is though you can go practice at/around the facility . Coach may pop over if you need them, etc. Need a look, no problem . A tune up, no problem. The higher price gets the student more vested in actually improving vs. just taking one lesson. More reliable income for the instructor , plus they know the student is buying in- I think ultimately coaches want to build a reputation and make a living off of players who improve...rather than the one and done fix it lesson for $100. From the student , it prevents the hesitancy of calling coach back knowing they will need to schedule , pay another $100, etc. I guess most coaches are pretty available for quick looks or video anyway, but sounds like a good concept for both sides. I recall that some programming at Carmel CC in Charlotte operate on this model.

    Posted:
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1572WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,572 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 6, 2019 #24

    On -, @hangontight said:

    On -, @tiger1873 said:

    On -, @hangontight said:

    Resurecting the coaching / instructor topic - I heard another podcast with an instructor that has abandoned the old pay by hour/lesson deal. For those of you who listen to Junior Golf Blueprint with Matt Walter- he mentions it frequently. However, I am not clear on how these are set up. I've talked to a few of you offline about working in discounted package type deals with a reasonable commitment - but these new development programs seem to be a flat fee with unlimited access or close to. Is anyone familiar with how these are structured?

    This really depends on the coach/instructor and their setup. Some have academy’s other will tell you upfront. Other times you may want to say I can afford this is it okay.

    As a rule I tend to avoid the academy setup it usually more a mill then not. Someone else may had better experiences with it.

    If you have an instructor who likes your kid the money issue never is an issue. At least that is what I experienced.

    We pay by the lesson it seems to work because we get stuff we need to work on when that is accomplished we have another lesson to work on something different. They also answer our text and email anytime we have questions. Once we have enough we have enough stuff to build on we have another lesson.

    With this setup we pay much more then we used to per hour and a big reason some teachers have to charge more. The thing is our results are much better doing this then trying to just go and learn on a regular basis. We can go months between lessons so it is actually much cheaper then paying a guy $50-60 an hour seeing them every week with not much to work on on after the lesson. In a lot cases they only answer questions on the clock. The better teachers all interview their students before taking them on.

    I am not talking about an academy setup. 100% one on one private lessons. The idea is though you can go practice at/around the facility . Coach may pop over if you need them, etc. Need a look, no problem . A tune up, no problem. The higher price gets the student more vested in actually improving vs. just taking one lesson. More reliable income for the instructor , plus they know the student is buying in- I think ultimately coaches want to build a reputation and make a living off of players who improve...rather than the one and done fix it lesson for $100. From the student , it prevents the hesitancy of calling coach back knowing they will need to schedule , pay another $100, etc. I guess most coaches are pretty available for quick looks or video anyway, but sounds like a good concept for both sides. I recall that some programming at Carmel CC in Charlotte operate on this model.

    I’ve heard mix results with this method. The only people I ever heard that like it don’t have access to practice facilities. I know a few people who do this and the kids don’t have the freedom to go out play much on the course alone.

    To me it depends on your cost vs getting a membership to practice somewhere. So this very dependent on where you live.

    If you have a membership at a club and there are few pros hanging around a lot times they will talk to kids a lot if they have questions I know the club we belong too the club pros are always asking if my kids need anything and more then happy to have the kids bounce ideas off them we don’t pay anything for this advice. I think it helps break up their day from all the grumpy old guys always complaining. They also genuinely pull for the kids in the club.

    We still seek outside instructors because there much better at teaching things we need and club pros primary job is to run the course not teach.

    Posted:
  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1572WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,572 Platinum Tees
    Joined:  edited Oct 6, 2019 #25

    To add some more having a coach on retainer usually isn’t cheap. I could be wrong but ones I seen were $500-$700 a month for enough hours for it to make sense. Plus the one I seen had situations where you might have to pay for extra things so that can add to your monthly bill

    The kids I seen where this works out is where both parents work and the kids get to go there after school and practice. So for them they are paying for supervision and getting practice facilities with lessons built in. It’s not a bad deal for them. But the kids could be a lot better with a better setup because they mostly get just range time hitting balls.

    However if you have the time or live somewhere where your kids have practice facilities there really is no need to pay that much a month for lessons . A lot times you can join a very nice private course for about the same or less. If your near a muni possibly even a lot less and just get a lesson once a month.

    Posted:
  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1833WRX Points: 1,154Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,833 Platinum Tees
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    We know a bunch of kids that go to an academy and have great results. They get to practice at a premier course as well. You can check out the details here: http://www.jrlgolf.com/junior-clinics/

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • Kcct82Kcct82 Members  323WRX Points: 211Posts: 323 Greens
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    On -, @leezer99 said:

    We know a bunch of kids that go to an academy and have great results. They get to practice at a premier course as well. You can check out the details here: http://www.jrlgolf.com/junior-clinics/

    Wow, I’ve always wanted to find a place like this around my area. Too bad it’s still a little far though, around 45min without traffic.

    Posted:
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  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1833WRX Points: 1,154Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,833 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Kcct82 said:

    On -, @leezer99 said:

    We know a bunch of kids that go to an academy and have great results. They get to practice at a premier course as well. You can check out the details here: http://www.jrlgolf.com/junior-clinics/

    Wow, I’ve always wanted to find a place like this around my area. Too bad it’s still a little far though, around 45min without traffic.

    There's also Encino/Balboa and Rustic Canyon competitive player programs through Cali Jr. Golf. https://caljrgolf.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/caljrgolf19/mo/CJG_CPP.htm

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1572WRX Points: 382Posts: 1,572 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Kcct82 said:

    On -, @leezer99 said:

    We know a bunch of kids that go to an academy and have great results. They get to practice at a premier course as well. You can check out the details here: http://www.jrlgolf.com/junior-clinics/

    Wow, I’ve always wanted to find a place like this around my area. Too bad it’s still a little far though, around 45min without traffic.

    Are you able to practice outside the hours you pay for? If not this seems pretty pricey to me compared to paying for lessons. If you do the $500 a month plan that is 6k a year for lessons.

    I don’t think I ever paid that much for lessons in a year and we see coaches who teach PGA players regularly. Also once you start to travel how do you keep up with all the lessons you miss?

    Posted:
  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1833WRX Points: 1,154Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,833 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @tiger1873 said:

    On -, @Kcct82 said:

    On -, @leezer99 said:

    We know a bunch of kids that go to an academy and have great results. They get to practice at a premier course as well. You can check out the details here: http://www.jrlgolf.com/junior-clinics/

    Wow, I’ve always wanted to find a place like this around my area. Too bad it’s still a little far though, around 45min without traffic.

    Are you able to practice outside the hours you pay for? If not this seems pretty pricey to me compared to paying for lessons. If you do the $500 a month plan that is 6k a year for lessons.

    I don’t think I ever paid that much for lessons in a year and we see coaches who teach PGA players regularly. Also once you start to travel how do you keep up with all the lessons you miss?

    Yes, this is an open facility.

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3800WRX Points: 1,109Posts: 3,800 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31

    I pay for 6 months at a time and love it. Gives the kid one on work out with TPI certified instructor once every week and a program for fitness the rest of the week to do on his own. He has a set lesson every other week along with a progression plan and homework. Whenever he needs something he just texts and will meet more than likely sometime that day or evening. Have access to the facility any time we need it including playing golf.

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