Went from Eye 2 to G25 - everything goes to the right ??

[markfrid]

My first post. Thanks for the great forum.

 

I've been playing Ping Eye 2's since 1990. Ridiculous, I know. I'm now 64 and the stiff (zz lite) shafts are wearing on me. I can still swing them hard enough, but its work. What a sissy, eh? Ha-ha! I bought some used g25's with stock TFC 189 R-flex shafts and have played them half dozen rounds and I'm fighting the Rights something fierce. Push-fades. I like the feel of the graphite shaft and the way they hit the ball, but I can't control the fades. I'm starting to really dislike them. Played the last round with my Eye 2's as an experiment. Back to straight. Both are black dot lie. I laid a 7 iron from each set on the wood floor and lined up the soles with the lines on the floor. The shafts were within 1/8" of being parallel. I concluded the lie was the same. Wrong?

 

I'd like to go to a graphite shaft because it feels better on my old hands when I hit. My 150 yard carry with my Eye 2's is a 6 and with the g25's it's a solid 7. From things I've read (you can read anything on the internet) that puts me in the R-flex camp. I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking for something graphite that doesn't go right on me. I haven't been fitted. I maybe should?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Mark

[greenwavegolfer]

A fitting would definitely help. Tough to say with any certainty what exactly might be causing this and it's likely not just 1 thing. The weird thing is that most of the major changes would normally induce a left ball flight, not right, all else equal. The softer shaft and added offset are both things that would be more draw/hook prone than fade. Likely the graphite shafts are lighter than the older steel ones and that could certainly have an effect. If the swingweight is starkly different (which it certainly could be) then it could affect things like your tempo and your ability to feel the clubhead and thus control it as well. Maybe you need a heavier Regular graphite shaft that will allow you to feel the head a little more and offer a little more control and it might fit your tempo better. What that might be would be better determined by a fitter. Or maybe it's just a big adjustment and over time you'll adjust and figure it out. That's a pretty big equipment change and it's not always perfect overnight (even when you get fitted, but especially when you're not).

[extrastiff]

i got a lesson in prepositional phases for ya ;)

 

"I've been playing Ping Eye 2's since 1990.. . . . . I haven't been fitted. I maybe should?"

 

go get fitted you have earned it

[Ghostwedge]

Welcome aboard Mark, iʻm in the same boat, been hittin regular Ping steel shafts for 20+ years and just got my first graphite set.

Pings are 95-100g these graphite Recoils are 65g and i canʻt feel them anywhere in my swing. The lead tape and i are officially dating and itʻs getting serious. If you donʻt get fitted, get some tape, it doesnʻt look that bad inside the lower back cavity of the G25.

Took a few range sessions and experimentation with the tape but theyʻre D2 now and may work out.

[markfrid]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm going to try a lot of clubs this winter and do a fitting. One thing that catches my eye when using the g25's is they have a longer blade than the eye 2. The 7 is 3/8" longer. I wonder if I have developed some timing thing with the eye 2 that isn't meshing with the longer blade - not getting it shut. I don't know. Wish I could put graphite in my eye 2's , but reading up on that, it seems the eye 2 heads are too light for graphite. Is the i25 more the dimensions of the eye 2? Just thinking out loud.

 

Mark

[MtlJeff]

Hi Mark,

 

Half dozen rounds is a decent amount but it's still early. Your club face coming through even a tad bit open could cause a push , and you've been using the same clubs for 28 years man!!!! That's gonna take some getting used to

 

Don't give up on them yet. Just get some practice in . I imagine you'll figure it out. Could be something small like how you grip the club naturally has the face a bit open at impact. The eye 2 was a crazy design with massive offset

[MtlJeff]

Btw I still have a set of 1986 Eye2 myself that I used on my honeymoon a few years back. They are timeless!

[Divot2]

I would at least take the irons and go hit them on a lie board. Some shafts will deliver the club head different than others and, maybe need the lie adjusted upright. But like others have stated, there are many thing that contribute to what’s going on, Just my $.02

[A.Princey]

I hit whippy shafts to the right as well, changes my swing to cutting across the ball some. I bet shafts more similar to what you had will cure it.

[leo the lion]

A fitting would definitely help. Tough to say with any certainty what exactly might be causing this and it's likely not just 1 thing. The weird thing is that most of the major changes would normally induce a left ball flight, not right, all else equal. The softer shaft and added offset are both things that would be more draw/hook prone than fade. Likely the graphite shafts are lighter than the older steel ones and that could certainly have an effect. If the swingweight is starkly different (which it certainly could be) then it could affect things like your tempo and your ability to feel the clubhead and thus control it as well. Maybe you need a heavier Regular graphite shaft that will allow you to feel the head a little more and offer a little more control and it might fit your tempo better. What that might be would be better determined by a fitter. Or maybe it's just a big adjustment and over time you'll adjust and figure it out. That's a pretty big equipment change and it's not always perfect overnight (even when you get fitted, but especially when you're not).

 

Listen to greenwavegolfer. A lot of what he says makes a sense.

 

I am dealing with the same issue. Played Dynamic Gold S300 shafts virtually in every iron set I owned over 40 years in golf. This year, I decided age was catching up with me and the S300's in my Ping ISI becu's had to go. It was hard as I loved those copper heads but I decided to take the plunge. I put my ego to one side and went for lighter shafts. Went with a set of Ping G irons with the Ping AWT shafts (made by Nippon) and first impressions were they were much easier to swing.............but I was hitting them all over the place. After a while I realized that I was swinging the irons more aggressively than I had done in years and I was also swinging longer. So I worked on relaxing the grip, shortening my swing and keeping an even tempo..........straight away............bang.........six iron after six iron out of the screws and most of them dead straight. I don't think I have fully cracked it but working on it from now until Spring and then we'll see where we are at. I am sure muscle memory plays a part and it will take me time to 'ween' off the S300's and into the AWT's.

 

Would certainly recommend you try the Ping AWT shafts. You could sell your G25's and for a very small additional cost upgrade into a set of G irons with Ping AWT shafts. I picked up a set of G irons on eBay that were in really good condition for less than 400 bucks.

[herdman]

It is the lighter shaft(my guess). I went to graphite shafts and fought the same thing. Tempo, you are likely coming out the swing because the shaft is lighter. There is also less feel because of the graphite. I was fitted for mine and still fought it. Mine are 65 gram shafts I was playing 110's I believe and then a set of 85 steel. My arthritic wrist sure appeciate the graphite.

 

I am used to them now. honestly, what helped me was going to pro and taking some lessons. He worked on shaft lean with me an to stop flipping. Boom. It helped. But, there is an adjustment to graphite. I thought about going back to steel when I was struggling with it, but my body appreciates the graphite.

[Cwebb]

Different shaft and club weights can produce different path/face angles through impact......causing different flights

[extrastiff]

Different shaft and club weights can produce different path/face angles through impact......causing different flights

Anytime my game set is getting worked on I play a set of stiff shafts in my backup set(so friends can join along). I literally have to aim way left and keep the ball forward in stance otherwise the ball is in the trees on the right (face doesn't have a chance to close throughout swing).

[sdandrea]

The answer, IMO is that the Eye 2 irons have a lot more offset than the G25. I hit my Eye 2 irons typically dead straighter and higher than ANY newer PING model. I have G400 irons now. PING kept their higher offset in their head designs up thru the G20 (and including the GMax), but from the G25 on, they went to a thinner sole, thinner topline and less offset. The Eye 2 is an iconic design. It helped a lot of mediocre golf swings improve. I got spoiled by the offset design and still struggle a bit with the rights and actually still game the Eye 2s now and then (the wedges are in my minimalist bag now). I have installed graphite shafts in several sets of Eye 2 irons and have been pretty pleased.

[jplroper]

Thats a big change from zz lite to graphite, I would give them some time if I where you to see if they improved, if I where me though I would head to Nevada Bobs and trade them, I have a bad habit of that.

Slightly different subject, but for the players with arthritic issues would a softer and/or larger grip help with that problem vs a club/shaft change?

[sdandrea]

Thats a big change from zz lite to graphite, I would give them some time if I where you to see if they improved, if I where me though I would head to Nevada Bobs and trade them, I have a bad habit of that.

Slightly different subject, but for the players with arthritic issues would a softer and/or larger grip help with that problem vs a club/shaft change?

 

I use ProSoft Inserts and Golf Pride Your Wrap 2G Jumbo grips on steel shafts and it is ALMOST as effective as going to graphite (almost). At 66 years old, I still like the heft of steel shafts (it helps my tempo) and when playing in soft conditions, steel does not bother my joints much. Down in Florida during the winter, the ground is very firm and steel bothers me a bit more.

[bluedot]

My first post. Thanks for the great forum.

 

I've been playing Ping Eye 2's since 1990. Ridiculous, I know. I'm now 64 and the stiff (zz lite) shafts are wearing on me. I can still swing them hard enough, but its work. What a sissy, eh? Ha-ha! I bought some used g25's with stock TFC 189 R-flex shafts and have played them half dozen rounds and I'm fighting the Rights something fierce. Push-fades. I like the feel of the graphite shaft and the way they hit the ball, but I can't control the fades. I'm starting to really dislike them. Played the last round with my Eye 2's as an experiment. Back to straight. Both are black dot lie. I laid a 7 iron from each set on the wood floor and lined up the soles with the lines on the floor. The shafts were within 1/8" of being parallel. I concluded the lie was the same. Wrong?

 

I'd like to go to a graphite shaft because it feels better on my old hands when I hit. My 150 yard carry with my Eye 2's is a 6 and with the g25's it's a solid 7. From things I've read (you can read anything on the internet) that puts me in the R-flex camp. I guess what I'm saying is I'm looking for something graphite that doesn't go right on me. I haven't been fitted. I maybe should?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Mark

 

The very first thing that occurs to me is this: You had been playing the Eye2's with stiff steel since 1990; that's almost THIRTY YEARS, and likely hundreds and hundreds (if not thousands?) of rounds and practice sessions. If you could switch club heads, not to mention shaft material, weight, and flex and NOT have at least a somewhat difficult adjustment, you would be really remarkable. There are lots of stories about pros who switched brands with identical specs and struggled; Miller, Steward, Pavin, McIlroy, and on and on. A half dozen rounds just isn't much, especially for somebody who last changed irons when Bush The Elder was president. And the most likely way a lack of familiarity and comfort is going to show up is with a poor release of the club and a shot to the right. Once that gets in your head, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

 

All of that said, there isn't any real reason to suspect that you can't hit G25's as easily as you do the old reliable Eye2's. For sure, it would be worth going in for a fitting, or at least getting the lie angles checked; there is no telling these days what has been done to used clubs; if nothing else, that would put your mind at ease compared to eyeballing the shafts and trying to figure it out. We're similar, btw; I went from stiff steel in i5's at age 60 to R flex graphite in G30 irons 4 years ago both with the same color code and shaft length, and it worked out fine. (I will add that this spring I got fitted to the G700's with the Recoil shaft, and it's a significantly better shaft than the Ping stock graphite, though those are fine shafts.)

 

Get fitted, and be patient.

[markfrid]

"All of that said, there isn't any real reason to suspect that you can't hit G25's as easily as you do the old reliable Eye2's. For sure, it would be worth going in for a fitting, or at least getting the lie angles checked; there is no telling these days what has been done to used clubs; if nothing else, that would put your mind at ease compared to eyeballing the shafts and trying to figure it out. We're similar, btw; I went from stiff steel in i5's at age 60 to R flex graphite in G30 irons 4 years ago both with the same color code and shaft length, and it worked out fine. (I will add that this spring I got fitted to the G700's with the Recoil shaft, and it's a significantly better shaft than the Ping stock graphite, though those are fine shafts.)

 

Get fitted, and be patient. "

 

Thanks Mr bluedot. I made myself a home made lie board setup after work today and did some experimenting in the barn. After warming up for a bit, I feel like I made 6 or 7 pretty good swings and got the following results:

 

 

 

 

Read 'em and weep, I guess. Out on the toe. Any other problems aside, I guess I need a more upright lie, correct? Now... how much? I guess its time for a fitting.

 

Thanks everybody! Mark

[A.Princey]

Yeah, but did your Eye2's have a dynamic wear pattern like that too?

[markfrid]

"Yeah, but did your Eye2's have a dynamic wear pattern like that too?"

 

Not sure, Mr A.Princey - I mean to check on that tomorrow.

[cardoustie]

Put some 110g or 115 or 125 graphite in your eye 2's ... or a new set of them

 

I recently fell in love w steelfiber shafts

 

Don't learn a new swing at this stage to fit clubs

[cardoustie]

What shaft weight are the tfc shafts vs zz lites

[bluedot]

Ok, here goes...

 

All other things equal, a club that is too flat will be likely to have the heel off the ground at impact, effectively opening the face and causing the ball to go right. And the impact your pictures are showing look that way, certainly, though fitters vary in how much stock they put in what impact tape shows, simply because the relationship between how you strike the ball and where you are striking the ground is sort of complex and variable, which is why most fitters in my experience use the strike board as ONLY a starting point, and maybe place more significance on the divot pattern.

 

On top of that, it's likely that a graphite shaft is going to have some downward bend on the swing, at least relative to steel, that MIGHT cause the toe to hit the ground very slightly earlier than had been the case with the clubs that you have been using for thirty years, again making the lie effectively too flat and leaving the clubface slightly open. I'm assuming that you bought the Eye2's off the rack with a black dot 30 years ago, and it's also possible that the original lie angles have been "adjusted" by you after a zillion shots to be more upright than they originally were. And it's entirely possible that the lie angles of the G25's have been adjusted or are off, too.

 

All of which means we have no idea what's going on...

 

So maybe start by going to the Ping website and entering your info on the web fit tool and getting a suggestion/idea of what lie angle you might be, and then maybe take the G25's somewhere and get the lie angles checked; you might even do that with the Eye2's, just for the comparison. Use THAT as a starting point, and get with a fitter and see what's going on before you spend any more money on clubs, or give up on the G25s.

[LaymanM]

Going to be a big adjustment. ZZ lite is extremely stiff (x flex for some shafts) and light swing weights. C8/C9.

 

Going to take some adjustment and tempo changes. Stick with it.

[LaymanM]

Also...just a thought. I played eye 2 for 20 years. 13 until 30. Anyways...

 

With the G series irons I had a hard time getting the face square and leaving it open. I was aligning the club from the top and not the face. Eye 2 you can just set down and the face is good to go.

 

I suggest you get the club square before you set it down and really focus on where the face is oriented. Was too much doe me to think about so I just dont play any of the G series irons.

[Guia]

Every thing going to the right. Could be the clubs are too flat for your swing. Do some tweaking.