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Greg Norman talks about One Length Irons, Bryson on to something


ronbo

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So much hate for Norman :lol:

 

People must be Chris Evert fans.

 

I read his book a while back and did find it funny how all his collapses were someone else's fault and never his own.

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i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

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i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

 

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's a great buy.. Send info

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The few I know who tried SL, traded them in shortly thereafter. I'm thinking would need to devote some serious range time to get adapted to.

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i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

 

The one set my fitter sold last year was at a similar discount and was the omg customer that asked about SL since release

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Well I am not a SL length guy but close I guess.

 

As a "taller" guy I have my short irons longer and 1/4" apart starting at 9i... and 6-8 are only 3/8" apart. Thanks to Tom Wishon !!!!!!!!!!!

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Norman won 86 times internationally, including 20 Tour events, along with the 1986 British Open

 

The 1993 win never counted?

 

so really he has 20 wins..just like Tiger only has 80 wins...only PGA tour wins count

 

So what about those pesky Europeans winning the Ryder Cup so many times over the years?

 

This is such a short sighted comment. Is the PGA Tour the best, yes it is, but the standard of golf in Europe and around the world is much higher than people give it credit for.

 

 

Winning the RC ? Means what exactly?

 

It means you have bragging rights for the next 2 years.

 

BT

 

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A better Cobra player....

 

Should of had a closeup of the uni-brow chic too though.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
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i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

 

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's a great buy.. Send info

 

s flex, full set of shelf demos, most the heads still have the plastic.

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Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

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The few I know who tried SL, traded them in shortly thereafter. I'm thinking would need to devote some serious range time to get adapted to.

 

They do take time and just as much dedication as any new set, I mean you gotta put the work in with VL or SL. For me it was a double whammy, SL and 15 gram or so lighter shafts. After a year my scores have dropped a little, but 4 through wedges are much more consistent and I feel more confident.... Many of my average killing rounds are due to being out of position via hybrid through Driver, I am struggling in this area..

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i still do not see SL becoming a golf revolution. it will stay out on the fringes. we have a set of the initial SL tour irons that have been 50% discounted that are collecting dust in our bargain bin since nobody wants them. People look at them then walk away.

 

Forged OL's? What, they demo's or are the shafts senior flex? At 50% it's a great buy.. Send info

 

s flex, full set of shelf demos, most the heads still have the plastic.

 

Wow,, surprised they won't sell,, but I know we SL converts are few. I'd pick them up but I plan to sell,, er. trade in my F7's for the new F9's

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Vokey SM8 50, 54, 58

Scotty Phantom X 5.5

 

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Let's face it. If Tiger Woods announced tomorrow that he was going to start playing SL irons, retailers probably couldn't keep SL irons in stock. If Titleist, TM, or Callaway started making them, they would probably gain in popularity as well. Although I don't see any of those three companies building SL irons unless they sign a PGA Tour pro that insists on playing them.

 

Regardless of what you think of him, Bryson (as of today at least) does not have the personality to sway the egos of the typical amateur golfer to try something "different" that might actually help their game. There are a ton of golfers out there that readily accept that they aren't good enough to play the same irons as the pros, so they rely on technology (SGI or GI) irons to improve their game. Yet those same golfers cannot wrap their head around the fact that technology can enable a 7I length 4I to go just as far as a regular length 4I and a 7I length PW can have similar flight to a regular length PW -- likely because "none of the pros" play single length irons (or at least their favorite pros don't). The logic against SL just doesn't make sense.

 

Now SL irons aren't for everyone, if you tried them, and found "traditional" irons to work better, then go for it. But the fact that people immediately dismiss them, despite wanting to get the "best irons for them", is truly baffling.

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Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

 

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

 

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

 

It was not common with hickory. Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey. His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased. And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

 

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club. Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's. And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

 

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club. Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

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Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

 

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

 

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

 

It was not common with hickory. Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey. His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased. And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

 

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club. Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's. And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

 

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club. Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

 

Jones set was this.

 

2,3 same

4,5 same

6,7 same

8,9 same

Pw,sw same

 

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

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It just seems to be that they are making things harder by making the short irons longer. Short irons are great, easier to hit due to their shorter length. People should have the length of their clubs limited to the longest clubs they can hit comfortably. Progression up to say a 7 iron and then everything above (6-3 iron) is 7 iron length.

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They just replayed it a few minutes ago.

 

When asked about how he felt about one length irons he giggled and said “well, I developed them”. Then he mentioned seeing Bobby Jones irons at Augusta and noticing they were all similar length and he intimated that seeing them gave him the inspiration to “develop“ one length irons. Barf...

 

He undeniably is a “trailblazer” of sorts for actually being the first to use them successfully on tour. He’s certainly earning his Cobra money.

 

If I was still teaching professionally I would not be dissuading brand new golfers from trying them. It’s a nice idea for those with no preconceived ideas about clubs who haven’t already gotten used to traditional irons. I do think it’s extremely ackward for long time golfers to try and change to them.

 

They can’t work for me. I’ve tried them. I will always try to overswing a super “short” 4 iron and I will always find a super long gap wedge bizarre because I’ve hit millions of golf balls with traditional irons for 35 years.

 

The one MASSIVE problem with getting new golfers started on single length irons is that if they don’t become more popular and other companies don’t start making them, a consumer will never have any CHOICE in irons except to buy new Cobras every few years.....and that’s Only if Cobra continues making them for many years. What if they stop in 4 or 5 years? Then what? All OL golfers need to convert if they want to buy new clubs? Yikes.

 

I actually hope they become popular enough that more choices emerge, but only time will tell.

 

Cobra has sold 40,000 sets worldwide. More than I thought. https://www.golf.com/the-knockdown/2018/12/13/bryson-dechambeau-single-length-iron-revolution/

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People seem to forget that Bryson's Metal Woods DO vary in length, and yet he somehow manages to hit those clubs OK, despite their different lengths.

 

Frankly, I think Bryson 'COULD' play just about as well with a conventional set of clubs if his 'obsession with physics' didn't get in the way of doing that. He has 'the talent', but he also has 'that obsession'.

 

If you 'believe in something strongly enough', you'll find a way to make it work for you, and that's the case with Bryson! He believes in limiting the number of 'swing planes' by using a single-length iron set, but I think many of his fellow Pros think he is 'overstating the difficulty of varying swing planes'.

 

There are so many excellent ball strikers on the PGA Tour and I seriously doubt very many of them even bother to give 'multiple swing planes' a second thought... :aikido:

 

AND BY THE WAY, ISN'T GREG NORMAN STILL A SPOKESMAN FOR COBRA GOLF, THE LARGEST PRODUCER OF SINGLE LENGTH IRONS?... :swoon:

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Never gave it much thought until I read this thread but it does kind of make sense. In Jack Nicklaus' book, he advocates the same swing and ball position with all his clubs with the only thing changing is the width of his stance. I guess if he had tried the single length clubs, that would fit his philosophy pretty well.

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Interesting thread. Debate about Norman and SL irons all mixed in. I have been trying SL irons and seem to like them. They haven’t helped my handicap but I feel more confident and consistent. Time will tell.

 

I wonder if when metal drivers came out if the same debates emerged. Or utility and hybrids? They were seen as a fad that would not take hold and an insult to golf pursuits. GPS and lasers? I have heard complaints they take away from the feel of the game. Carts too.

 

Now, SL irons might well end up being a very niche market. But I’m always surprised at the hate for them. People seem personally offended.

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I have my short irons longer and 1/4" apart starting at 9i... and 6-8 are only 3/8" apart. Thanks to Tom Wishon !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Based on Tom's thread regarding gapping I actually built my latest iron set exactly this way. I also shortened my driver as well as my woods and center contact consistency across the board has improved. I am going to get a Cobra SL set this year and mess around with it. It's definitely my engineering and quality background that convinced me that it makes sense. Especially after I did my research on the history of the graduated set.

 

I am actually quite surprised that Homer Kelley didn't consider this variable when he wroteThe Golfing Machine...

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I was under the impression BDC went to SL irons to better match his swing he was trying to achieve. I get it the closer gapping in irons should result in more consistent center contact, but I'm wondering if you need to approach the swing similar to BDC's move to get full benefit of SL irons.

 

Obviously it works for him and with his strength he can probably make a more traditional swing work. Still, I wonder just how much these two concepts go together vs. not.

 

I've been tempted to try SL irons but Cobra is designing some of the ugliest irons I've ever seen. The forged blacks look acceptable, but the rest of the F8 series is blechhhh!!!

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I was under the impression BDC went to SL irons to better match his swing he was trying to achieve. I get it the closer gapping in irons should result in more consistent center contact, but I'm wondering if you need to approach the swing similar to BDC's move to get full benefit of SL irons.

 

Obviously it works for him and with his strength he can probably make a more traditional swing work. Still, I wonder just how much these two concepts go together vs. not.

 

I've been tempted to try SL irons but Cobra is designing some of the ugliest irons I've ever seen. The forged blacks look acceptable, but the rest of the F8 series is blechhhh!!!

 

I have improved my iron game significantly by moving to SL irons.... No need to change any swing mechanics... Just swing them all like a 7 iron.

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Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

 

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

 

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

 

It was not common with hickory. Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey. His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased. And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

 

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club. Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's. And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

 

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club. Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

 

Jones set was this.

 

2,3 same

4,5 same

6,7 same

8,9 same

Pw,sw same

 

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

 

Of course these were hickories probablyaquired one at a time...but Jones was an engineer.

 

There is a thread started by FairwayFred, former owner of Scratch golf, where he discusses how he had Don White custom grind a set for him in this manner.

 

If you are going to do this you need the headweights right plus the gapping tweaked.

 

To me it sounds like a much better idea than single length.

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Watched Norman on TV yesterday talk about one length irons and makes sense, Bryson backing up what he's been saying all along. Never knew Bobby Jones played a set make up all the same length?

 

https://golfweek.com...-it-over-again/

 

That was pretty common with hickory shafts. They had to be fit using your wrist to floor measurement. Once steel shafts became the norm, equipment companies wanted an easier way to sell clubs, so they came up with the gradual length system that magically fit everyone. LOL.

 

It was not common with hickory. Also, stating that Bobby Jones' irons were one length is malarkey. His 2 and 3-iron might have been the same length, and his 4 and 5-iron might have been the same, and his 6 and 7-iron, but the pairs got shorter as the lofts increased. And that is just one set that happens to be in a display at Augusta National.

 

Most all sets of hickories were put together, club by club. Numbered sets didn't appear until the late 1920's. And the lest lofted clubs (jiggers, mashie irons) were longer shafted than the more lofted spade mashies, mashie niblicks and niblicks.

 

There is a reason that length of iron increases as the lofts decrease - most every golfer needs more club head speed to get the elevation required for a lower lofted club. Now, modern sole weighted clubs might work for some golfers in single length - with more sole weighting on the lower lofted irons - but iron sets have developed over time according to the tried and true experience of what works.

 

Jones set was this.

 

2,3 same

4,5 same

6,7 same

8,9 same

Pw,sw same

 

Though they 1/4 increments. So they nearly all the same length. Roughly 1 inch in difference in length between longest and shortest iron. Versus the normal 4.5 inches

 

Of course these were hickories probablyaquired one at a time...but Jones was an engineer.

 

There is a thread started by FairwayFred, former owner of Scratch golf, where he discusses how he had Don White custom grind a set for him in this manner.

 

If you are going to do this you need the headweights right plus the gapping tweaked.

 

To me it sounds like a much better idea than single length.

 

Bobby Jones was a lawyer and a golf course architect later. I never remember hearing he was an engineer. Do you have a reference for that statement?

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He graduated from Georgia Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering. Went to law school afterward.

 

....Wikipedia is your friend.

 

Thank you.

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He graduated from Georgia Tech with a degree in mechanical engineering. Went to law school afterward.

 

....Wikipedia is your friend.

 

Thank you.

 

Right. He may never have actually been an engineer but he did have the degree. Reading one of his books he describes designing a driver while at Harvard, had it made for him, but it didn’t work so well.

 

After he “retired” he helped Spalding design the first matched set of irons. Which bore his name.

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    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 8 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
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      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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