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Apex cf16 to Apex 2019 irons - Loft jacking continuing??


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I too was was a little turned off by the loft jacking. However, I am a low spin player and weakening the lofts a degree or two increased spin for me.

 

I told the rep, Hitting a 7 iron with an over 200 yard roll out is NOT ideal for me. I then hit a weak 7 iron and was carrying 175-185 with much more spin control on the greens. It would land and spin/check up on me.

 

Just a little perspective if it helps.

 

- KC

Titleist TSi3 8°

Mizuno ST-Z 230 5w

Ping G430 4hy

Ping i59 4-PW

Ping Glide 4.0 52S/58T

Odyssey Marxman XG 48"

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There's more to it than simply loft jacking. Many have accused OEM's of simply taking a lower lofted iron and putting a different number on it, i.e. 6i with a 7 on it. But, that's not the case. Not only are the lengths of the irons different but the MOI and center of gravity has been altered to achieve optimum spin, forgiveness and trajectory. Are we hitting them longer? Yes, but it's not all due to lofts being stronger. The thing that bugs me the most is what it does to the tops and bottoms of bags. These days, buying irons with modern tech requires a change in wedges and woods. For me, it may cause me to keep my irons longer to minimize cost.

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watch txg's youtube video on loft jacking. They tested the ping i500 power spec, regular and retro spec.

 

the "jacked" irons were optimal. They produced higher ball speed at the same launch angle. They produced a higher landing angle with minimal difference in spin.

 

its hard for you to detremine without testing

Taylormade Stealth 2 Plus 7*........................Project X Smoke Green 60 TX
Taylormade Stealth Plus 13*.........................Fujikura Ventus Black 8X
Taylormade Stealth Plus 17*.........................Fujikura Ventus Black 9X

Srixon ZX Utility 3..........................................Fujikura Ventus Black 10TX
Srixon ZX Utility 4..........................................Dynamic Gold X7
Srixon ZX7 5-9...............................................Dynamic Gold X7
Cleveland Zipcore Raw 47, 53......................Dynamic Gold X7

Vokey Wedge Works V Grind 59..................Dynamic Gold S400
Yes! Ann.........................................................KBS GPS 120

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I wasn’t a fan of loft jacking at first, but not because it’s fake distance. The problem I had was that irons 2 degrees stronger threw off the gapping from irons to wedges. It could also throw off the gapping between irons and hybrids depending on your bag. Now that the jacking has reached a full 4/3 degrees stronger across the board, it’s easier to blend the irons into the bag. Who gives af what number is on the bottom.

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its hard for you to detremine without testing

 

The numbers already tell a convincing story without me testing. My current Gap Wedge is 51 degree. Tell me it will provide reasonable distance gap with the Apex 43 degree PW! I would likely need gap wedge NO 2 or to strength lofts of all my 3 wedges.

 

I will probably still test the new Apex 19 irons though , considering how excellent the set my cf 16 has been.

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I just placed my order today for the Apex 19’s. Tested them last Friday and really liked them but didn’t order that day because my ego/hard headedness wouldn’t let me order 5-GW as I’ve always played 4-PW the 52/58.

 

Had a long discussion with my golf ego this weekend. Left my ego at home this morning and placed my order. Going to bend the GW to 47 and stick with my trusty 52/58.

 

Everything in our lives change - my guess is that no one on this forum took a horse and buggy to work today.

 

 

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For most of us, we'd just be best to buy 5-GW, then go 52, 56, 60 at the bottom of the bag. Throw a hybrid in that's 18-20*, a 3 wood, and driver and call it a day.

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Mizuno ST-Z 220 10.5* - Tensei Blue Raw AV 65S

Ping G425 5w 16.5* - Alta CB 65S, Ping G425 7w 19.5* - Tensei Orange AV Raw 75S

Mizuno CLK 22* & 25* - Tensei CK Blue 70S

Mizuno 919 HMP 5i-PW - Recoil 95 F4, Mizuno T22 54 & 58 - Recoil 95 F4

Odyssey 2 Ball Ten White Hot Tour Insert

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Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!!

 

Solution #2....buy the pro version.

#4 keep your current clubs

#5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.

#6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

 

Im going with option #3

Contents of bag subject to change...frequently 

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Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

 

Im going with option #3

 

Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all. Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.

Ping G400 Testing G410.  10.5 set at small -
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood

Ping G410 5 hybrid-not much use.  
Mizuno JPX 921 Hot Metal. 5-G
Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG3 56* TW grind.  Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS.  
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer, Ecco, Bushnell
ProV1x-mostly
 

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Most all OEMs have loft jacked in the last 5 years.

 

Personally, I don't care, as doesn't matter what club I hit, as long as goes where I expect, that's what matters.

 

Can always go combo set or Pros, or bend if makes you feel better.

 

I still contend that the OEMs engineer their clubs to perform and based on design criteria may adjust lofts to provide desired ball flight characteristics.

2021 Bag Update:

 

Epic Max LS - MMT 60S

Epic Flash 5 Wood

Epic 3/4 Hybrids

Apex '21 Irons 5-7  MMT95 TT

Apex Pro '21 Irons 8-A  MMT95 TT

PM Grind Slate Wedges 58/64

Odyssey Exo Mini 7s

B330 XS Yellow

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Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!!

 

Solution #2....buy the pro version.

#4 keep your current clubs

#5 buy a set of Mizuno blades.

#6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.

 

I don't know man. My MP-18s have a 46 degree PW.

TSi3
M5 3 Wood
3 Titleist U500
4-PW MP18 MB
Vokey 52F, 56S, and 60T
Scotty Special Select Newport 2

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Bend em 2 degrees weak. Add a bit of bounce and reduce the offset. Primo!! Solution #2....buy the pro version.
#4 keep your current clubs #5 buy a set of Mizuno blades. #6 hit your PW 10 yards farther than your buddies and brag about it over beers in the 19th hole.
Im going with option #3
Apparently #3 is to be fooled by it all. Because we are all too stupid to figure it out.

 

I just looked at it as the option to do nothing lol

Contents of bag subject to change...frequently 

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That's it enough is enough. I am going with Hogan Apex. I'll be rocking my 50* PW!

Titleist TSr 3 10°, Ventus Blue 6s
Titleist TSr 2 16.5°, Ventus Blue 7s

Ping G430 3, 4, 5 hybrid, Alta CB Black 70s

PXG 0317T 6-9, Mitsubishi MMT 80s
Vokey SM9 46°, 50°, 54° D, 60° T, Mitsubishi MMT 85s

L.A.B. Mezz.1 Max 35”, Accra

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5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

 

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.

 

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

 

 

 

 

You do realize that those are standard lofts but you can custom order and specify weaker or stronger lofts. All this talk about loft jacking has me wondering if no one has every custom ordered clubs besides me?

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Well, I mean, we are 7 days in to the new year, we are long overdue for a loft jacking thread.

 

You are welcome :) It is only 7 days into the year but we have seen multiple increasing loft jacking instances in M6 (not surprising) and now Apex. Personally I am very disappointed in seeing this happen for Apex because Apex is supposed to be a PLAYER iron. Damn it.

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5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

 

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.

 

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.

Titleist TS3 9.5* - Tour AD-GP 7X

Callaway X2 Hot Pro 15* - UST VTS Black 8X

Adams Pro Mini 21* - SteelFiber 110X

Bridgestone Golf J40 CB (4-PW) - Nippon Super Peening Blue X

Vokey SM8 50F - Nippon Super Peening Blue X

Taylormade MG2 TW Grind 56 - Nippon Super Peening Blue X

Taylormade MG2 TW Grind 60 - Tour Issue X100

Scotty Cameron Studio Stainless Newport Beach 1.5

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5 iron, 24° in cf16, 23.5° in cf19.

PW, 45° in cf16, 43° in cf19.

 

The pursuit for distance has reached a new level. Quite absurd.

 

See the pictures for all specs of cf16 and cf19.

 

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if a 7 iron still flys and lands like a 7 iron, why does it matter what loft it is.

 

Except that it is 10 yards longer than a traditionally-lofted 7 iron. Same for your PW. You suddenly have a 25 yards gap between the new PW and your 51-degree gap wedge. Then what you do?

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