College coaches recruiting international vs US players

[CTgolf]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

[tiger1873]

College Coaches are human this means they base their recruiting on past experiences. If you willing to leave everything you know and travel to another country you're generally speaking going to be pretty dedicated. I think there are just as many Americans just as dedicated if not more than other countries.

 

I personally think if you show you have talent, practice hard and more important show that you can apply yourself to academics it goes a long way in showing that you want a college degree and you're willing to work at it.

 

If you great at golf but couldn't care less at school I don't think that shows well either and I could see kids losing options because they forgot about school.

[BrianMcG]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

[CTgolf]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

[heavy_hitter]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

[CTgolf]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

[CTgolf]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

I'm confused, are you saying there's less stress and workload on the international junior stage so they handle college golf better than US players?

 

As tiger1873 mentioned above, the international players are a bit more committed...and it shows, which is why some coaches say they now prefer them

[CTgolf]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

I'm confused, are you saying there's less stress and workload on the international junior stage so they handle college golf better than US players?

 

The announced college girls' signees on JGS show 25-30% are international:

 

http://juniorgolfscoreboard.com/early_signees.asp

 

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a huge % to me and, while I don't know the exact stats, I think that is much higher than 5-10 years ago.

[wildcatden]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

I'm confused, are you saying there's less stress and workload on the international junior stage so they handle college golf better than US players?

 

As tiger1873 mentioned above, the international players are a bit more committed...and it shows, which is why some coaches say they now prefer them

 

I wonder if it is the international players being more committed or the US players being more burned out? There have been several discussion on this board before about # of tournaments juniors are playing per year. I mentioned one we play with on local tour that I estimate is spending upwards of $25K/year and played around 50-60 tournaments (3 Local Tours year round in our area but also Regionals, Worlds and other non-USKG tournaments) as a 7 year old last year.

[BertGA]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

What sport were they recruiting?

 

I also wonder if higher numbers of international recruits are attributed to coaches recruiting efforts, or an increasing globalization of the game. Maybe there are just more numbers of qualified international recruits. I think there is more money to be found on international tours, thus more athletes in Europe and Asia are considering golf as a career. The collegiate competition in the U.S has reached a point where it is a very good preparation for mini-tours.

[heavy_hitter]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

I'm confused, are you saying there's less stress and workload on the international junior stage so they handle college golf better than US players?

 

The announced college girls' signees on JGS show 25-30% are international:

 

http://juniorgolfscoreboard.com/early_signees.asp

 

I don't know about you, but that sounds like a huge % to me and, while I don't know the exact stats, I think that is much higher than 5-10 years ago.

 

Seems low to me.

[kekoa]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

Football or Basketball?

 

If you are talking top tier golf programs, I would bet a lot that the kids aren't taking their spot on the team for granted by partying excessively, taking it easy, or quitting. Thus, these programs will continue to recruit heavily on a local basis.

[wlm]

I honestly don’t think the line of thinking referenced by OP is part of the analysis for most men’s college golf coaches (maybe other sports). I think the coaches evaluate the “whole” player, whether domestic or international. Obviously they are looking for talent and skill, but they are also looking at character, academics, upside, personality, work ethic, etc. and fit. Some programs have had success with international recruits, and they seem to go back to that model.

[CTgolf]

I honestly don't think the line of thinking referenced by OP is part of the analysis for most men's college golf coaches (maybe other sports). I think the coaches evaluate the "whole" player, whether domestic or international. Obviously they are looking for talent and skill, but they are also looking at character, academics, upside, personality, work ethic, etc. and fit. Some programs have had success with international recruits, and they seem to go back to that model.

 

Very fair comment. I honestly hope I am wrong (out of self-interest for my own child) and that college coaches aren't discounting US juniors. It does seem though that the % of international players on college golf rosters is increasing over time, but obviously that could be due to many other factors already mentioned.

[Malvern]

Three kids from my club are in US colleges at the moment (following on from many who went before). More likely girls than boys these days. I don't know how the tiering system works but they aren't at the big ones. Nevertheless a college scholarship in some format is still the holy grail.

 

Not sure how much outward recruitment goes on, the kids from here "sell" themselves into the system.

[twidener]

Oklahoma State's men's team has 8 players of which 3 are international players. The women's team has 7 players of which 4 are international players. OSU has been recruiting international players for quite a long time.

[BrianMcG]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

 

15 years ago a local university had a couple of kids from our club on it. A new coach was hired and he cut the entire team and brought in 10 recruits all from Europe. This is nothing new.

[Pinewood Golfer]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

I'm confused, are you saying there's less stress and workload on the international junior stage so they handle college golf better than US players?

 

None of this is entirely true. In fact, most major programs you see have either “gone foreign” or not. This is especially true among the top 30-50 programs. There are some exceptions but in a lot of cases the domestic kids want to play with the domestic kids they’ve grown up playing with and competing against. There can be a bit of a stigma among the domestic kids when a school “goes international”. That doesn’t mean one or the other is better and it doesn’t mean that attitude among kids is good. But look at the makeup of teams at, for example, Alabama, Texas, LSU, Vanderbilt and Oklahoma and compare those to schools like Stanford, Florida, USC, Arizona St, and Wake Forest. For a lot of schools it’s one or the other.

 

For non-Top schools I can see what’s being suggested to an extent but in many cases when players are mixed together that don’t enjoy hanging out then it can lead to disinterest in the companionship and for the reasons mentioned throughout, the domestics tend to be the ones to find other things that interest them

[CTgolf]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

 

15 years ago a local university had a couple of kids from our club on it. A new coach was hired and he cut the entire team and brought in 10 recruits all from Europe. This is nothing new.

 

10 recruits from Europe?

 

Which school in TN was that?

[BrianMcG]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

 

15 years ago a local university had a couple of kids from our club on it. A new coach was hired and he cut the entire team and brought in 10 recruits all from Europe. This is nothing new.

 

10 recruits from Europe?

 

Which school in TN was that?

 

UTC.

 

Current roster looks similar, only 4 from the states.

Leon Bader R-Fr. Starnberg, Germany / Starnberg Secondary Etienne Brault Sr. Mercier, Quebec / Chateauguay Alex Cobb Fr. Brentwood, Tenn. / Brentwood Academy Lake Johnson Sr. Chattanooga, Tenn. / Chattanooga Christian Dominic Jones R-Fr. Espoo, Finland / Mlinne Senior Moritz Lammel Fr. Ismaning, Germany / Werner-Heisenberg A.J. Lintunen So. Espoo, Finland / Baylor Connor Nolan So. Corona, Calif. / Centennial Will Porter Jr. Arbroath, Scotland / Glenalmond Oliver Simonsen R-So. Ooltewah, Tenn. / Baylor

[heavy_hitter]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

 

15 years ago a local university had a couple of kids from our club on it. A new coach was hired and he cut the entire team and brought in 10 recruits all from Europe. This is nothing new.

 

NCAA has limitations on how many international students a squad can carry. If they go above the limit the NCAA disciplines the University.

[GoGoErky]

I could see sports like soccer, basketball, golf, baseball getting a large percentage of foreign players.

[wlm]

Not baseball. And add tennis I think.

[heavy_hitter]

Not baseball. And add tennis I think.

 

Baseball is positional. You look at many of the rosters and they will always have 1 or 2 kids from South America or the Caribbean.

[CTgolf]

Started about 20 years ago or so.

 

International recruiting yes, but not preference for international vs US (all things equal)

 

15 years ago a local university had a couple of kids from our club on it. A new coach was hired and he cut the entire team and brought in 10 recruits all from Europe. This is nothing new.

 

10 recruits from Europe?

 

Which school in TN was that?

 

UTC.

 

Current roster looks similar, only 4 from the states.

Leon Bader R-Fr. Starnberg, Germany / Starnberg Secondary Etienne Brault Sr. Mercier, Quebec / Chateauguay Alex Cobb Fr. Brentwood, Tenn. / Brentwood Academy Lake Johnson Sr. Chattanooga, Tenn. / Chattanooga Christian Dominic Jones R-Fr. Espoo, Finland / Mlinne Senior Moritz Lammel Fr. Ismaning, Germany / Werner-Heisenberg A.J. Lintunen So. Espoo, Finland / Baylor Connor Nolan So. Corona, Calif. / Centennial Will Porter Jr. Arbroath, Scotland / Glenalmond Oliver Simonsen R-So. Ooltewah, Tenn. / Baylor

 

Very interesting - there is clearly an international player bias here!

[CTgolf]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

What sport were they recruiting?

 

I also wonder if higher numbers of international recruits are attributed to coaches recruiting efforts, or an increasing globalization of the game. Maybe there are just more numbers of qualified international recruits. I think there is more money to be found on international tours, thus more athletes in Europe and Asia are considering golf as a career. The collegiate competition in the U.S has reached a point where it is a very good preparation for mini-tours.

 

Fencing, but have heard similar for swimming/diving too

[heavy_hitter]

A coach of another (niche) sport mentioned that, because of the emphasis on using sports to get into college in the US, once they are admitted, American students are more likely to party, take it easy or quit the team altogether compared to their peers and teammates who were recruited internationally. Apparently some coaches are noticing this and are now starting to prefer international recruits over Americans.

 

Not sure how widespread this thinking is, but I wonder if it is spreading to college golf as well.

 

This is a myth.

 

Colleges recruit international players for different reasons. Some only recruit international players so they don't have to deal with parents. The biggest reason is because certain state university systems have set up with foreign governments that will pay for part or all of the tuition for those players. Win Win for Universities. They can get quality overseas players at little to no cost while affording to give bigger scholarships to homegrown talent.

 

What you are saying may be true, but the coach I spoke with said college coaches have specifically stated the reasons I mention above for their more recent (last few years) preference for foreign recruits. Again, not for golf, but it seems like it would apply to golf as well.

 

It makes sense to me: junior sports have become overemphasized in the US, and kids are getting burned out earlier and dropping out at the college level. There is simply too much stress and workload to practice/compete 20-30 hours a week while trying to balance college studies (and also having a little fun).

 

What sport were they recruiting?

 

I also wonder if higher numbers of international recruits are attributed to coaches recruiting efforts, or an increasing globalization of the game. Maybe there are just more numbers of qualified international recruits. I think there is more money to be found on international tours, thus more athletes in Europe and Asia are considering golf as a career. The collegiate competition in the U.S has reached a point where it is a very good preparation for mini-tours.

 

Fencing, but have heard similar for swimming/diving too

 

LOL!!!!!

 

Fencing is the sport? How many high schools in the states have fencing? I would say that fencing is more of a North Eastern US club sport than anything else. There are only 46 Colleges in the entire country that offer Fencing. 4.5 scholarships for an 18 person roster for men's D1. USA doesn't even place in Fencing in the Olympics do they? Seriously, it ranks up there with Curling.

[alfriday]

Well, the USA fencing team won 10 medals in the 2016 games and the curling team won gold in 2018.

[CTgolf]

 

LOL!!!!!

 

Fencing is the sport? How many high schools in the states have fencing? I would say that fencing is more of a North Eastern US club sport than anything else. There are only 46 Colleges in the entire country that offer Fencing. 4.5 scholarships for an 18 person roster for men's D1. USA doesn't even place in Fencing in the Olympics do they? Seriously, it ranks up there with Curling.

 

Yup, considered a "niche" sport...just like golf. Swimming/diving, volleyball and squash too - heard higher and higher % of international recruits.

 

Very low number of participants (denominator) in many of those, and more scholarship/roster spots (numerator). In terms of getting a kid into school or scholarship $ those are where it's at. Golf...not so much.

[heavy_hitter]

 

LOL!!!!!

 

Fencing is the sport? How many high schools in the states have fencing? I would say that fencing is more of a North Eastern US club sport than anything else. There are only 46 Colleges in the entire country that offer Fencing. 4.5 scholarships for an 18 person roster for men's D1. USA doesn't even place in Fencing in the Olympics do they? Seriously, it ranks up there with Curling.

 

Yup, considered a "niche" sport...just like golf. Swimming/diving, volleyball and squash too - heard higher and higher % of international recruits.

 

Very low number of participants (denominator) in many of those, and more scholarship/roster spots (numerator). In terms of getting a kid into school or scholarship $ those are where it's at. Golf...not so much.

 

Golf isn’t a niche sport. People actually play it.