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Callaway Epic Flash Review


aklimsza

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Got the Epic Flash Driver Demo at work and I’ve had a chance to hit a few with it, overall with all of the new tech they’re pushing with it, I am not impressed. I didn’t see any big differences with my clubhead speed, ball speed, or carry/total. Only difference I can see from the Rogue is an increase of launch angle. With a 9* head I was launching on average of 11.5*. With an average clubhead speed of 115 that’s about a degree and a half higher than what I’d like to see. Spin numbers were OK right around the 2k mark, but I was only averaging 305 total with my highest being 313. If I had an X stiff shaft instead of just stiff I might’ve seen some difference but overall it’s not as good of a driver compared to the Rogue. In my opinion of course

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You will never see much difference going from one model to the next years model unless the manufacturer has really gone in a different direction and that rarely happens. I think 5 year gaps you might be able to see differences of some significance. Everything else is smoke and mirrors and equals a yard here or there.

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I know its just the lighting or something but the sole looks like it has a crack in it already.

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Yes I did use the EF Green Shaft, not a huge fan of it.

The lighting does give the look of a crack

I do wholeheartedly agree with you about the tech changes, I've just seen so much more online than usual about how much better this year's model is and I really think the rogue is a better club compared to the flash

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I think its a great looking club. But is there much change in the model vs. last year or the year before. No! Manufacturers, do whatever they can to try and create an image to change. Reality, twist face, flash face, this face, that face. We brought the tolerance to the max. To make it faster. It's tiring. I am a club hoe. I admit it. I like the latest and greatest. I rather them just put out, here is our 2019 product. Its going to give you the same results. Thanks! O Btw we raised the price too.

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I am just looking for the same performance that I got with the Rogue SZ in a better looking package. If it can do that, I am happy.

 

You tested that club with a noodle of a shaft that was at least a flex too soft. I am guessing that this Evenflow Green is a shaft that is only in existence because Callaway asked for it. Probably soft and high launching. Could explain the 1.5* of extra launch you are getting.

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I am just looking for the same performance that I got with the Rogue SZ in a better looking package. If it can do that, I am happy.

 

You tested that club with a noodle of a shaft that was at least a flex too soft. I am guessing that this Evenflow Green is a shaft that is only in existence because Callaway asked for it. Probably soft and high launching. Could explain the 1.5* of extra launch you are getting.

 

Hasn't the Flash been launching higher than previous similarly lofted clubs for most people though?

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I am just looking for the same performance that I got with the Rogue SZ in a better looking package. If it can do that, I am happy.

 

You tested that club with a noodle of a shaft that was at least a flex too soft. I am guessing that this Evenflow Green is a shaft that is only in existence because Callaway asked for it. Probably soft and high launching. Could explain the 1.5* of extra launch you are getting.

 

Hasn't the Flash been launching higher than previous similarly lofted clubs for most people though?

 

From what I have read, yes. But, I would imagine his launch would come down with a stouter shaft. Don't know how much. I just think using the Evenflow Green and then writing it off is a mistake. Especially if he is an X flex guy. Just like the online reviews. If you are comparing two heads and using two completely different shafts with different characteristics, it is hard to really make a sound judgement. If he were to say that it is obnoxiously loud and tinny feeling, or that he didn't like the look behind the ball, those are statements I can believe. To say it's a lesser club than what he has all the while using a shaft that is far from a fit for him is jumping to conclusions. I don't expect him to see any distance gains as that doesn't appear to be the trend, no matter how much Callaway would like us to believe.

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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I am just looking for the same performance that I got with the Rogue SZ in a better looking package. If it can do that, I am happy.

 

You tested that club with a noodle of a shaft that was at least a flex too soft. I am guessing that this Evenflow Green is a shaft that is only in existence because Callaway asked for it. Probably soft and high launching. Could explain the 1.5* of extra launch you are getting.

 

Hasn't the Flash been launching higher than previous similarly lofted clubs for most people though?

 

From what I have read, yes. But, I would imagine his launch would come down with a stouter shaft. Don't know how much. I just think using the Evenflow Green and then writing it off is a mistake. Especially if he is an X flex guy. Just like the online reviews. If you are comparing two heads and using two completely different shafts with different characteristics, it is hard to really make a sound judgement. If he were to say that it is obnoxiously loud and tinny feeling, or that he didn't like the look behind the ball, those are statements I can believe. To say it's a lesser club than what he has all the while using a shaft that is far from a fit for him is jumping to conclusions. I don't expect him to see any distance gains as that doesn't appear to be the trend, no matter how much Callaway would like us to believe.

 

Yeah, I gotcha. I kind of agree. Don't think the Green is a shaft it sounds like is intended for him. And as critical as I've been of the Flash, I don't think performance really drops off any from previous Callaway products. But nor do I think or see any distance increase, either. Marginally more forgiving, as should be expected from consecutive generations of products. But sound..holy s*** is it bad.

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I think its a great looking club. But is there much change in the model vs. last year or the year before. No! Manufacturers, do whatever they can to try and create an image to change. Reality, twist face, flash face, this face, that face. We brought the tolerance to the max. To make it faster. It's tiring. I am a club hoe. I admit it. I like the latest and greatest. I rather them just put out, here is our 2019 product. Its going to give you the same results. Thanks! O Btw we raised the price too.

 

This!! Obviously they can’t do that for marketing purposes but I totally agree. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were more like automobiles? They manufacture them every year but they don’t “hype” them every year. If you’re in the market for a new car you get one. About every 3-4 years they re-design it. I wish club makers would also simplify the message rather than sell us garbage. I mean I’d rather hear... “with the success of Epic we kept that design but slightly tweaked X to slightly increase MOI on mishits”. Or “with this model we’ve moved the weight slightly more here to lower spin but it won’t quite as much MOI as y”

Callaway Epic Speed 9° Driver
Callaway Epic Speed 4W - Smoke IM10

Callaway Apex UW (21°)

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I have actually seen some nice gains hitting the Epic Flash Sub Zero against my Epic but it’s really more about fit. When I got fit for Epic whatever I was doing with my swing had me super low spin and I was also losing speed. We dropped weight and flex in the shaft and since I’ve even shortened the shaft to 44.5”.

 

The result... 2+ years later and now I’m spinning it WAAAY too much. I’m launching at 16+ degrees with spin over 3000 most shots so my setup isn’t optimized.

 

With that said, I could just pick up an Epic Sub Zero with the shaft changes I’m looking at and see the same gains as I’m seeing with the Flash Gordon Sub zero

Callaway Epic Speed 9° Driver
Callaway Epic Speed 4W - Smoke IM10

Callaway Apex UW (21°)

Mizuno Pro 225 (4i); 223 (5-9i); 221 (PW)
Jaws MD 5 50°, Full Toe 54°, 58° PM Grind
Toulon Odyssey Chicago
 

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I think its a great looking club. But is there much change in the model vs. last year or the year before. No! Manufacturers, do whatever they can to try and create an image to change. Reality, twist face, flash face, this face, that face. We brought the tolerance to the max. To make it faster. It's tiring. I am a club hoe. I admit it. I like the latest and greatest. I rather them just put out, here is our 2019 product. Its going to give you the same results. Thanks! O Btw we raised the price too.

 

This!! Obviously they can't do that for marketing purposes but I totally agree. Wouldn't it be nice if it were more like automobiles? They manufacture them every year but they don't "hype" them every year. If you're in the market for a new car you get one. About every 3-4 years they re-design it. I wish club makers would also simplify the message rather than sell us garbage. I mean I'd rather hear... "with the success of Epic we kept that design but slightly tweaked X to slightly increase MOI on mishits". Or "with this model we've moved the weight slightly more here to lower spin but it won't quite as much MOI as y"

 

Yep. Realistically it's all incremental improvements and refinements to existing designs. We can put a rover on Mars for goodness sakes, so it stands to reason that we've just about maximized what can be done with a golf club. Especially considering that there are USGA limits, and..honestly...materials science/physics limits to what can be done with our current materials. So basically we should see marginal and slight improvements on expanding the sweet spot with successive generations. That's the reality, and the associated reality with that is that there will/should be no large jumps in performance from one year to the next, at least in golf clubs. So...marketing departments have to latch on to any marginal improvement and embellish the hell out of it to the point that those of us that understand this get annoyed as all hell.

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Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.

Ping G430 LST 9* (set to 7.5*), 45", Fujikura Ventus TR Black 6x
Ping G430 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Fujikura Ventus Black 7x
TaylorMade M2 Tour 18*, Fujikura Rombax P95x or Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) Fujikura Ventus HB Blue 9x or Tour Issue or Titleist TSi2 21* (set to 20*) Fujikura Ventus Black 8x
Cobra King RF Forged MB - 4-PW, KBS C-Taper 120 Stiff
Corey Paul 52*, Nippon Modus 125/Titleist Vokey SM8 58* K-Grind & 62* M-Grind DG S200
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Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.

 

This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
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Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.

 

This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.

 

I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...

 

I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.

 

Average numbers after 15-20 balls:

 

GBB Evo II -

ball speed - 142.14

launch - 14.1

spin - 1943.4

carry - 246.2

total - 266.4

 

G400 Max -

141.3

14.1

2656

234

253

 

Epic Flash with Evo II -

142.2

14.3

2204

243

264

 

Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

142.3

15.2

2156

244

266

 

The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.

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Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.

 

This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.

 

I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...

 

I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.

 

Average numbers after 15-20 balls:

 

GBB Evo II -

ball speed - 142.14

launch - 14.1

spin - 1943.4

carry - 246.2

total - 266.4

 

G400 Max -

141.3

14.1

2656

234

253

 

Epic Flash with Evo II -

142.2

14.3

2204

243

264

 

Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

142.3

15.2

2156

244

266

 

The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.

 

The only thing a guy can really hope for is intangibles that we want to see and hear, and maybe a little added ball speed on off center hits. I think the days of one driver being significantly longer than others is over. If you have something you like, that's great! I'm searching for something that looks better after playing the Rogue last year.

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Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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Lots of reasons to get something new, and looks are a big one. I'm a sound guy - it can't sound bad at impact. I love the way the Rogue sounds which is really the only reason I bought one. The dull thud is pleasing. I simply wanted to respond to your comment about an apples to apples comparison with my own results of an apples to apples comparison. Good luck in your search and have fun with it.

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Is there a reason you didn't try the Flash with the shaft from your Rogue? Seems like that would be the best way to do a good comparison between the two heads. The variable of a shaft that isn't a good fit for you in flex (and maybe profile -- I don't think you mentioned what you're currently using) seems like it would explain a lot of the differences you mentioned, especially the higher launch. It's entirely possible that even if you did an apples to apples test like that, you wouldn't see major differences compared to your Rogue, but it seems like those results would be a more informative comparison.

 

This sums up my thoughts as well. I appreciate him coming in to share his thoughts. I just don't like coming to a conclusion that it isn't as good when there is a big variable like that at play.

 

I'll chime in on this point as I went today to compare a few drivers to my gamer for the past 2 years - the 2015 GBB in 9* with a Speeder Evo II 569 stiff. I was fit into this driver a few years ago and have done 2 driver fittings since, both of which yielded no improvements worthy of purchasing a new driver despite my failed attempts anyway...

 

I also have a Rogue 9* head that I use with the same shaft. I hit both the G400 Max 9* (also with a Evo II 569 stiff - I have one with a Ping tip) and the Epic Flash 9* with both the EF green 55 stiff and my Evo II.

 

Average numbers after 15-20 balls:

 

GBB Evo II -

ball speed - 142.14

launch - 14.1

spin - 1943.4

carry - 246.2

total - 266.4

 

G400 Max -

141.3

14.1

2656

234

253

 

Epic Flash with Evo II -

142.2

14.3

2204

243

264

 

Epic Flash with EF Green 55 -

142.3

15.2

2156

244

266

 

The Flash with the EF 55 was "fun" to hit, more with that shaft than my own. It gave me the feeling of wanting to hit the ball hard, but the numbers don't bear out that I actually did that. Dispersion was similar with all of them. I'm sure there's a level of comfort/familiarity with my driver that I simply can't replicate in 1 session of hitting something new, but it's clear (at least to me) that I'm not going to gain much dropping money on a new driver.

Now, this is how you test driver heads.

Ping G430 LST 9* (set to 7.5*), 45", Fujikura Ventus TR Black 6x
Ping G430 LST 14.5* (set to 13*) Fujikura Ventus Black 7x
TaylorMade M2 Tour 18*, Fujikura Rombax P95x or Tour Edge CBX Iron-Wood 17* (Black Pearl) Fujikura Ventus HB Blue 9x or Tour Issue or Titleist TSi2 21* (set to 20*) Fujikura Ventus Black 8x
Cobra King RF Forged MB - 4-PW, KBS C-Taper 120 Stiff
Corey Paul 52*, Nippon Modus 125/Titleist Vokey SM8 58* K-Grind & 62* M-Grind DG S200
Byron Morgan long pipe neck B-17, Brushed Mystic finish, 34" or Byron Morgan long pipe neck beached 007x

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Clearly, you tested the club with a poorly fitted shaft to you. No doubt the numbers would have been better had you tested a shaft that is designed for people with 115 mph club speed instead of the lightest shaft we make.

 

We? Are you with either Callaway or True Temper?

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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After more testing, the flash sz launches a little higher than my rogue sz both with t1100. It spins about the same but has better toe misses above equator. Good driver terrible sound and colors.

I also dont understand making a sequel to the flash and ignoring rogue totally. Why would you skip releases as rogue is pretty dam good

 

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Hmmmmmmm. The only difference you see from the rogue is a higher launch at 11.5*? You also say spin is "ok" right around 2k? So what is the problem? If you were launching the rogue any lower and/or with less spin then you were less ideal than you are with the flash sub z and EF green.

 

10-12* with 2k spin is my perfect launch conditions.

AI Smoke Max @ 7* +8g front weight - Diamana DF 70tx(tipped 1.25”)

BRNR Mini 13.5(@12.5*) 43.25” - Diamana DF 70tx(tipped 1.75”)

TSR 3h 19* - AV Raw White 9x    OR   FliHi 3(19*) - Modus 125x

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Hmmmmmmm. The only difference you see from the rogue is a higher launch at 11.5*? You also say spin is "ok" right around 2k? So what is the problem? If you were launching the rogue any lower and/or with less spin then you were less ideal than you are with the flash sub z and EF green.

 

10-12* with 2k spin is my perfect launch conditions.

Somewhat agree with this also. My launch target is 12.5 to 13 @ 2k so I dont know how 11.5 with 115 speed is too high but golf has a lot of personal preference options so JAT

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      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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