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The Arm Swing Illusion / Jim Waldron's Swing Philosophy


Kiwi2

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Nice try.

 

But this is about maintaining width in his arc.

 

For the umpteenth time: Extending the club away from the target is not the same as pushing it away at a 45 degree angle to the target.

 

Butch has ALWAYS liked his players to get WIDTH in the backswing and be WIDE at the top. As mentioned several weeks back; when I has my time with Butch he liked all of us there and his tour players to keep width and have the feeling that the arms were as far away from our heads as possible at the top of the swing. But this wasn't a push away (in fact he stressed 100% on maintaining the triangle to start the swing) and it wasn't to prevent the club from being inside (the 1 piece move does that according to Butch Harmon) it was to have as wide of an swing arc as possible for power reasons.

 

Butch Harmon - Maintaining Width

 

Butch Harmon - One Piece Takeaway

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Nice try.

 

But this is about maintaining width in his arc.

 

For the umpteenth time: Extending the club away from the target is not the same as pushing it away at a 45 degree angle to the target.

 

Butch has ALWAYS liked his players to get WIDTH in the backswing and be WIDE at the top. As mentioned several weeks back; when I has my time with Butch he liked all of us there and his tour players to keep width and have the feeling that the arms were as far away from our heads as possible at the top of the swing. But this wasn't a push away (in fact he stressed 100% on maintaining the triangle to start the swing) and it wasn't to prevent the club from being inside (the 1 piece move does that according to Butch Harmon) it was to have as wide of an swing arc as possible for power reasons.

 

Butch Harmon - Maintaining Width

 

Butch Harmon - One Piece Takeaway

 

I feel like I'm reading someone argue in Newspeak in 1984... :dntknw:

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Nice try.

 

But this is about maintaining width in his arc.

 

For the umpteenth time: Extending the club away from the target is not the same as pushing it away at a 45 degree angle to the target.

 

Butch has ALWAYS liked his players to get WIDTH in the backswing and be WIDE at the top. As mentioned several weeks back; when I has my time with Butch he liked all of us there and his tour players to keep width and have the feeling that the arms were as far away from our heads as possible at the top of the swing. But this wasn't a push away (in fact he stressed 100% on maintaining the triangle to start the swing) and it wasn't to prevent the club from being inside (the 1 piece move does that according to Butch Harmon) it was to have as wide of an swing arc as possible for power reasons.

 

Butch Harmon - Maintaining Width

 

Butch Harmon - One Piece Takeaway

 

You think the push away Jim advocates means losing the triangle in the takeaway?

 

Or just give it a break and start your own thread on how swing..

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My upcoming winter teaching schedule: January 25-Feb 28 at Ko Olina Golf Club on Oahu, March 19-April 1 in Palm Springs.

 

My summer season will see a return to Quail Valley Golf Course in Portland, Oregon for the 24th consecutive year, first weekend of May, and running through end of October.

 

Please PM me for more info.

 

Jim

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Nice try.

 

But this is about maintaining width in his arc.

 

For the umpteenth time: Extending the club away from the target is not the same as pushing it away at a 45 degree angle to the target.

 

Butch has ALWAYS liked his players to get WIDTH in the backswing and be WIDE at the top. As mentioned several weeks back; when I has my time with Butch he liked all of us there and his tour players to keep width and have the feeling that the arms were as far away from our heads as possible at the top of the swing. But this wasn't a push away (in fact he stressed 100% on maintaining the triangle to start the swing) and it wasn't to prevent the club from being inside (the 1 piece move does that according to Butch Harmon) it was to have as wide of an swing arc as possible for power reasons.

 

Butch Harmon - Maintaining Width

 

Butch Harmon - One Piece Takeaway

 

You are flat out embarrassing yourself with how little comprehension you have of what Jim is advocating here. Everytime you speak you reveal your ignorance. Just stop it is tiresome and you long since proved you lack basic intellectual honesty and have no interest in learning anything. You are only here to pick a fight. Grow up and go away.

WITB:
Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle

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ASI was probably the biggest door opener I had in regards to swing progress. Mainly because it allowed me to realise the power of the Subconsious Minds intent over the mechanics of my swing.

 

Jim- do you think that people can use the process of overcoming the ASI as a tool to open other misconceptions and misbeliefs of what should happen in the swing?

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ASI was probably the biggest door opener I had in regards to swing progress. Mainly because it allowed me to realise the power of the Subconsious Minds intent over the mechanics of my swing.

 

Jim- do you think that people can use the process of overcoming the ASI as a tool to open other misconceptions and misbeliefs of what should happen in the swing?

Y

 

Yes absolutely. ASI is just one of several 2D optical illusions that "program" the subconscious mind Swing Map with wrong understanding of what the body is actually doing in a good golf swing. Once you form a strong belief at the conscious mind level, normally that belief then is imprinted into your subconscious mind, and once there - it can be very hard to remove it!

 

The swing change Process is all about understanding how to make the new movement patterns originate in the Swing Map, so that your body will manifest those changes effortlessly and automatically as dominant habits when playing golf. As opposed to the traditional instruction approach of your conscious mind trying to force your body to make the change.

 

And this is why the equation for a successful swing change is this: awareness = insight = change.

 

It works really well, and not just in golf - in life too!

 

The equation in traditional conscious mind golf is this: theory = think of the theory while swinging = hope you get lucky one to three times out of ten shots = attribute that random lucky shot to the theory thinking = rinse and repeat = wonder why you never achieve your goal of consistent shotmaking.....mass insanity!

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O.K. I am going attempt a different way to explain this illusion as I see it. First I believe the golf swing plane is a two dimensional line drawn from the ball center and your club face center. Your hands at address are not on the swing plane, giving us a third dimension. As we turn back our left arm and hands turn and rotate to the two dimensional swing plane in line behind the club face center. How quickly a golfer rotates to the swing plane can be quickly(which is more visible),can be paced to be completed at the top or many even finish in the down swing. In the down swing our left arm and hands lead our clubface on the two dimensional swing line (plane) till our turn over begins. That is not only the turn over of the club face from open to square to closed. It is also the turn over from our left arm ands hands on the swing plane, to both hands and arms off the swing plane, to the right arm and hands turn and rotation to the two dimensional swing plane into the follow through.

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Thought this video was a good explanation of the ASI. It was also interesting to hear, it wasn't described as ASI. But, the arms lift on the backswing, while turning because that's what arms do best, they don't function properly when going side to side.

 

 

Jim, I have a trail knee that is contstantly getting tweaked (re-injured). Do you think the ASI might be more knee friendly on the backswing?

 

Thanks,

 

Tanner

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Thought this video was a good explanation of the ASI. It was also interesting to hear, it wasn't described as ASI. But, the arms lift on the backswing, while turning because that's what arms do best, they don't function properly when going side to side.

 

 

Jim, I have a trail knee that is contstantly getting tweaked (re-injured). Do you think the ASI might be more knee friendly on the backswing?

 

Thanks,

 

Tanner

 

He's got the basic concept right, in a Big Picture kind of way.

 

PM sent.

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Jim,

 

Losing spine angle a bit on the way down. Hips go toward the ball, stand up a bit, just enough to throw off contact. Iron play has been suffering the last 3 weeks.

 

Is spine angle loss indicative of too much lateral movement toward the target in the downswing?

 

What are a couple drills or key feelings to help this? Is feeling like the head doesnt move one?

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Jim,

 

Losing spine angle a bit on the way down. Hips go toward the ball, stand up a bit, just enough to throw off contact. Iron play has been suffering the last 3 weeks.

 

Is spine angle loss indicative of too much lateral movement toward the target in the downswing?

 

What are a couple drills or key feelings to help this? Is feeling like the head doesnt move one?

 

Lots of causes for loss of spine angle, would have to do a webcam lesson with you to diagnose accurately.

 

But wrx is the realm of swing theory, so in theory, yes a steady head feel/intention could help.

 

The answer lies in why your subconscious brain believes it has to make your body do that.

 

Often it is due to early wrist c0ck angle release which will cause a super fat shot if you do not stand up.

 

See that one everyday on the lesson tee.

 

Yes a big hip slide can lead to loss of balance which can result in stand up move.

 

Anything that hurts your balance can cause this.

 

Another is your balance point in your feet shifting from the middle (where it should be) to your toes on the forward swing. You stand up to not fall over.

 

Can also just be a poor timing issue doing hip extension ( a required move) too early.

 

Hope that helps a bit!

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Jim,

 

Losing spine angle a bit on the way down. Hips go toward the ball, stand up a bit, just enough to throw off contact. Iron play has been suffering the last 3 weeks.

 

Is spine angle loss indicative of too much lateral movement toward the target in the downswing?

 

What are a couple drills or key feelings to help this? Is feeling like the head doesnt move one?

 

Lots of causes for loss of spine angle, would have to do a webcam lesson with you to diagnose accurately.

 

But wrx is the realm of swing theory, so in theory, yes a steady head feel/intention could help.

 

The answer lies in why your subconscious brain believes it has to make your body do that.

 

Often it is due to early wrist c0ck angle release which will cause a super fat shot if you do not stand up.

 

See that one everyday on the lesson tee.

 

Yes a big hip slide can lead to loss of balance which can result in stand up move.

 

Anything that hurts your balance can cause this.

 

Another is your balance point in your feet shifting from the middle (where it should be) to your toes on the forward swing. You stand up to not fall over.

 

Can also just be a poor timing issue doing hip extension ( a required move) too early.

 

Hope that helps a bit!

 

Thanks. I'll check the lateral movement and balance point. I may be setup a bit too much on the trail leg at address. Nearly positive that it's not early unc0ck of the wrist angle.

 

I get into this move every now and then. I think what's helped before is having a feeling of keeping the hands low through impact. Not sure what that does to resolve things though.

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Yep. Fell into a bit too much weight on my trail leg and then moved off the ball a bit. Much better contact today. Ball flight that started left and faded rather than started right and faded. Gotta watch the end of the round. I get a bit lazy with my posture and fall into this.

 

Much better ball striking today though. Thanks Jim.

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Yep. Fell into a bit too much weight on my trail leg and then moved off the ball a bit. Much better contact today. Ball flight that started left and faded rather than started right and faded. Gotta watch the end of the round. I get a bit lazy with my posture and fall into this.

 

Much better ball striking today though. Thanks Jim.

 

You are welcome! And great to hear you were able to correctly self-diagnose and fix it. A really important skill that every good player learns at some point in their career.

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Yep. Fell into a bit too much weight on my trail leg and then moved off the ball a bit. Much better contact today. Ball flight that started left and faded rather than started right and faded. Gotta watch the end of the round. I get a bit lazy with my posture and fall into this.

 

Much better ball striking today though. Thanks Jim.

 

You are welcome! And great to hear you were able to correctly self-diagnose and fix it. A really important skill that every good player learns at some point in their career.

 

Yep. That move off the ball.is an old habit that was much more present when I played a draw. Doesn't come around as often now that I play a fade, I think because I setup a bit open usually. Been trying to square up a bit more at address and the old habit must have slipped in.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

It's literally in quotes...lol.

 

Good stuff. But, push away at the end of the back swing is different than an early ASI push away, no?

 

Isn't Tiger talking about the takeaway, initially, in this article? I know he says throughout the swing too, but that's probably more of a feeling for him to get more width.

 

EDIT: And isn't the width created during the "pushing away" at the start of the swing? If you don't do it at the start, it's gonna be difficult to do it later, no? (not arguing btw, just discussing)

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ASI was probably the biggest door opener I had in regards to swing progress. Mainly because it allowed me to realise the power of the Subconsious Minds intent over the mechanics of my swing.

 

Jim- do you think that people can use the process of overcoming the ASI as a tool to open other misconceptions and misbeliefs of what should happen in the swing?

Y

 

Yes absolutely. ASI is just one of several 2D optical illusions that "program" the subconscious mind Swing Map with wrong understanding of what the body is actually doing in a good golf swing. Once you form a strong belief at the conscious mind level, normally that belief then is imprinted into your subconscious mind, and once there - it can be very hard to remove it!

 

The swing change Process is all about understanding how to make the new movement patterns originate in the Swing Map, so that your body will manifest those changes effortlessly and automatically as dominant habits when playing golf. As opposed to the traditional instruction approach of your conscious mind trying to force your body to make the change.

 

And this is why the equation for a successful swing change is this: awareness = insight = change.

 

It works really well, and not just in golf - in life too!

 

The equation in traditional conscious mind golf is this: theory = think of the theory while swinging = hope you get lucky one to three times out of ten shots = attribute that random lucky shot to the theory thinking = rinse and repeat = wonder why you never achieve your goal of consistent shotmaking.....mass insanity!

 

JIm, do you delve into this subject in your 3 day schools?

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Wow - I am pretty amazed at all the great questions and feedback here today. Rather than try to reply to each poster individually, I will just try to answer some of the questions and issues brought forward in a simple way.

 

First - the question of can one change the swing "instantly". The answer is certainly, for some golfers - no question. The method I have developed, and clear to me that Dan has developed a very similar teaching protocl, I have termed Deep Insight. It will result in immediate change to a person's golf swing, but only as Rok said, if certain things are already in place. Body awareness, mental focus and greater than average athletic ability are the three essentials for a supernova light bulb moment to immediately translate into a radical movement pattern change. This change demonstrates the power of the mind/brain to body connection.

 

If you think of the golf swing as a 3D jigsaw puzzle, and that certain movement pattens are dominant habits that will repeat no matter what, and others are compensations that only repeat because of underlying pattens that have never been understood to even exist by the golfer, that are 100% unconscious, and that serve a purpose, which is to make just enough semi-solid contact to hit a "decent" golf shot by mid to high handicap standards (which one should never use as a standard IMO), then one approach is to remove the underlying cause for the compensatory pattern so that the swing becomes one of fewer moving parts, ie simpler to execute. That approach - again with the right student - is almost always very fast and to some extent permanent improvement. Will it last on the first tee of your club champiohship? I certainly cannot claim that it will in every person's case, since stress tends to interfere with tne new pattern, but it does greatly improve your odds of the change holding up. Reps over time will deal with that issue though for sure.

 

Second, other patterns execute only in response to a mental image in the student's mind - either/or subconscious or conscious mind, although the subconcisous images are far more powerful - about what should happen in terms of power application, accuracy, impact and the use of the club, and basic mechanics. This is another reason why so many of my and Dan students are quickly changing their golf swings. When your understanding changes at a very deep level of the mind, your body motion instantly changes for the better.

 

If you have a wandering mind, poor feel sense awareness for your body and club, poor fitness, or below average athletic ability - the this Deep Insight approach will not work nearly as well for you as for a golfer who has those four things. It will still help a lot, but the changes will take more time.

This is brilliant Jim. You've just proven to me that this works, and you're the real deal.

I've had that supernova already...just in a few days reading about it. I've cured my lack of arm extensive post impact, leading to poor release. Nothing has worked before for me...and this tilt switch cured it in 1 swing! Yes, 1 swing.

 

The funny thing is, I've read through this first few pages of this thread a few times, and somehow i missed the tilt switch section. I haven't played golf for 12 months, and i vowed to rebuild my swing as i wasn't happy with it before. Went from 5hcp to 9hcp in 12hcp in 12 months and was climbing higher, to maybe 15/16hcp. And now I'm reading the thread again, it somehow sunk in this time.

 

I'm wondering what other key thoughts i can learn next? Short game is my next weakness,so hoping for something mind blowing too!

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Wow - I am pretty amazed at all the great questions and feedback here today. Rather than try to reply to each poster individually, I will just try to answer some of the questions and issues brought forward in a simple way.

 

First - the question of can one change the swing "instantly". The answer is certainly, for some golfers - no question. The method I have developed, and clear to me that Dan has developed a very similar teaching protocl, I have termed Deep Insight. It will result in immediate change to a person's golf swing, but only as Rok said, if certain things are already in place. Body awareness, mental focus and greater than average athletic ability are the three essentials for a supernova light bulb moment to immediately translate into a radical movement pattern change. This change demonstrates the power of the mind/brain to body connection.

 

If you think of the golf swing as a 3D jigsaw puzzle, and that certain movement pattens are dominant habits that will repeat no matter what, and others are compensations that only repeat because of underlying pattens that have never been understood to even exist by the golfer, that are 100% unconscious, and that serve a purpose, which is to make just enough semi-solid contact to hit a "decent" golf shot by mid to high handicap standards (which one should never use as a standard IMO), then one approach is to remove the underlying cause for the compensatory pattern so that the swing becomes one of fewer moving parts, ie simpler to execute. That approach - again with the right student - is almost always very fast and to some extent permanent improvement. Will it last on the first tee of your club champiohship? I certainly cannot claim that it will in every person's case, since stress tends to interfere with tne new pattern, but it does greatly improve your odds of the change holding up. Reps over time will deal with that issue though for sure.

 

Second, other patterns execute only in response to a mental image in the student's mind - either/or subconscious or conscious mind, although the subconcisous images are far more powerful - about what should happen in terms of power application, accuracy, impact and the use of the club, and basic mechanics. This is another reason why so many of my and Dan students are quickly changing their golf swings. When your understanding changes at a very deep level of the mind, your body motion instantly changes for the better.

 

If you have a wandering mind, poor feel sense awareness for your body and club, poor fitness, or below average athletic ability - the this Deep Insight approach will not work nearly as well for you as for a golfer who has those four things. It will still help a lot, but the changes will take more time.

This is brilliant Jim. You've just proven to me that this works, and you're the real deal.

I've had that supernova already...just in a few days reading about it. I've cured my lack of arm extensive post impact, leading to poor release. Nothing has worked before for me...and this tilt switch cured it in 1 swing! Yes, 1 swing.

 

The funny thing is, I've read through this first few pages of this thread a few times, and somehow i missed the tilt switch section. I haven't played golf for 12 months, and i vowed to rebuild my swing as i wasn't happy with it before. Went from 5hcp to 9hcp in 12hcp in 12 months and was climbing higher, to maybe 15/16hcp. And now I'm reading the thread again, it somehow sunk in this time.

 

I'm wondering what other key thoughts i can learn next? Short game is my next weakness,so hoping for something mind blowing too!

 

Great to hear about your breakthrough!

 

Pretty normal to need to hear the same thing multiple times before finally achieving that "light bulb" moment.....I get that feedback all the time from students.

 

My short game videos are done taping, now in editing process, first one will be out likely in April or May.

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I have not talked much about the role of "axis tilt" and the Arm Swing Illusion but here is one way to understand their relationship. What brings the arms down to re-connect to the body? Is it 100% gravity drop? Is it momentum from the Pivot? Is it the arm muscles pulling the arms down? (NO!)

 

In truth, it is a little bit of gravity drop, and a lot of momentum from Pivot rotation of hips, core and shoulder girdle. But it is also the fact that right lateral side bend or "axis tilt" both from upper lumbar area and mid-thoracic area of the spine MOVES THE ARMS CLOSER TO THE BODY. You can do this drill to prove it to yourself: go to the Top, on the Turned Shoulder Plane with your flat left wrist, and then shift your tailbone to your left a bit while you Tilt Switch from mid-back, ie go from 20 degrees left tilt to 10 degrees right tilt, and blend those two "tilts" with a little un-winding of your hips, core and shoulder girdle, not very much, just a bit. Try to keep your arms/hands/clubs back in their Top of backswing position. Most of you will be stunned when you see the tilts and rotation bring your hands/arms down into a perfect P6 position. The arms cannot stay up there at the Top. The pivot - and remember the tilts are part of the pivot - brings them down automatically. All of this "pull my arms down" to P6, or "pause at the Top and then throw my arms at the ball" or "time my gravity arm drop while I delay my pivot", is just stuff that comes about because of the Arm Swing Illusion controlling what one believes to be possible -and impossible. This is DOING NOTHING with the arms.

 

Jim, i'm only about 20 pages in. I'm curious about the flat left wrist. Is this always the case?

 

Actually, I edited that last bit out. I tried it again and i seem to be able to keep it flat, but getting the wrist c0ck is a little tricky at the same time.

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I have not talked much about the role of "axis tilt" and the Arm Swing Illusion but here is one way to understand their relationship. What brings the arms down to re-connect to the body? Is it 100% gravity drop? Is it momentum from the Pivot? Is it the arm muscles pulling the arms down? (NO!)

 

In truth, it is a little bit of gravity drop, and a lot of momentum from Pivot rotation of hips, core and shoulder girdle. But it is also the fact that right lateral side bend or "axis tilt" both from upper lumbar area and mid-thoracic area of the spine MOVES THE ARMS CLOSER TO THE BODY. You can do this drill to prove it to yourself: go to the Top, on the Turned Shoulder Plane with your flat left wrist, and then shift your tailbone to your left a bit while you Tilt Switch from mid-back, ie go from 20 degrees left tilt to 10 degrees right tilt, and blend those two "tilts" with a little un-winding of your hips, core and shoulder girdle, not very much, just a bit. Try to keep your arms/hands/clubs back in their Top of backswing position. Most of you will be stunned when you see the tilts and rotation bring your hands/arms down into a perfect P6 position. The arms cannot stay up there at the Top. The pivot - and remember the tilts are part of the pivot - brings them down automatically. All of this "pull my arms down" to P6, or "pause at the Top and then throw my arms at the ball" or "time my gravity arm drop while I delay my pivot", is just stuff that comes about because of the Arm Swing Illusion controlling what one believes to be possible -and impossible. This is DOING NOTHING with the arms.

 

Jim, i'm only about 20 pages in. I'm curious about the flat left wrist. Is this always the case?

 

Actually, I edited that last bit out. I tried it again and i seem to be able to keep it flat, but getting the wrist c0ck is a little tricky at the same time.

 

This is a great nugget you found in the thread about the arms.

 

Jim - do the arms EVER do anything as far as applying "independent force" so to speak? In other words, once you get to P6 can you think about applying force or should they always rag doll, for lack of a better term? Or, have I misinterpreted the post above being quoted?

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Glad to hear this is helping, Duc - it ain't easy to "get this" piece of the Arm Illusion puzzle but it is a SuperNova size light bulb for many when you do. Especially any golfer in those two opposing camps, ie reverse pivoters vs upper swing center swayers. Explains why Steady Head fundamental has stood the test of time in golf.

 

The BS is the easy part, forward swing much more difficult to see the tilt happen for most.

 

Emotionally, the Tilt Switch is a really "scary" move to make for those who are not doing it at all or not nearly enough. It feels crazy wrong to my students who first attempt to learn it. If you are an early wrist c0ck releaser you will hit the ball so fat when Switching it will blow your mind...one reason that it is so vital to fix that issue. I often fix wrist c0ck throwaway issue precisely by having the student work on the Switch, but only if there wrists and elbows are in good shape, ie no tendonitis, since this move can be hard on those body parts until you stop throwing the wrist angle away.

 

Tiger and Sergio are two of the tour pros who do the Switch really well.

I assume this is the "lean"into the target we see in Sergio's transition?

 

Not exactly sure what you mean by "lean", maybe you are seeing his upper center move a bit to the left, ie lateral left to re-establish his upper center stable axis of rotation point? Many tour pros do that move, ie return the sternum to their Address location, if they did the one to two inch or so move to the right on the backswing.

 

Tilt right is just that - bending from mid-back to the right of the golfer. Same thing as left tilt - don't try to "see it" from a particular view in the golf swing. From caddie view you are only seeing about half the total tilt right that is really there in the downswing.

I got you. So tilt left would happen kinda down toward the ball because of the pivot?

 

Yeah, kind of - but that thought might very well induce a bad reverse pivot in some folks reading this, ie much more than 20 degrees of tilt. As a general coaching rule, I do not like to EVER use the ball as a reference point. I have worked with students with severe reverse pivots and for some of them this is a really, really tough thing to fix. The Illusion is so powerful that they keep doing 50 degrees of left tilt and hardly any core and torso rotation. The weird thing is - you can actually hit a short iron pretty well with that move and plenty long. Put a driver in their hand and a ball teed up, and watch out! I have seen those guys hit the ground 18 inches behind the ball and hard! And try scrubbing those white paint marks off the top of your shiny new driver head!

 

Again - dont use ANY visual reference point to understand how to tilt left.

 

Jim is all this stuff in one of your downloads? I want to invest in this and start learning the moves, one by one. Then get a lesson with you in UK.

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I’m 30 pages deep. DEEP. The fog is lifting. It’s comforting to know that the whole thread has not been derailed by trolls. This has been the most important info for me in a long time.

 

You have to treat the trolls as amusing diversions to be chuckled about allowing you time to digest the heavy info in between. Enjoy the thread, it changed my golf game forever.

WITB:
Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle

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I have not talked much about the role of "axis tilt" and the Arm Swing Illusion but here is one way to understand their relationship. What brings the arms down to re-connect to the body? Is it 100% gravity drop? Is it momentum from the Pivot? Is it the arm muscles pulling the arms down? (NO!)

 

In truth, it is a little bit of gravity drop, and a lot of momentum from Pivot rotation of hips, core and shoulder girdle. But it is also the fact that right lateral side bend or "axis tilt" both from upper lumbar area and mid-thoracic area of the spine MOVES THE ARMS CLOSER TO THE BODY. You can do this drill to prove it to yourself: go to the Top, on the Turned Shoulder Plane with your flat left wrist, and then shift your tailbone to your left a bit while you Tilt Switch from mid-back, ie go from 20 degrees left tilt to 10 degrees right tilt, and blend those two "tilts" with a little un-winding of your hips, core and shoulder girdle, not very much, just a bit. Try to keep your arms/hands/clubs back in their Top of backswing position. Most of you will be stunned when you see the tilts and rotation bring your hands/arms down into a perfect P6 position. The arms cannot stay up there at the Top. The pivot - and remember the tilts are part of the pivot - brings them down automatically. All of this "pull my arms down" to P6, or "pause at the Top and then throw my arms at the ball" or "time my gravity arm drop while I delay my pivot", is just stuff that comes about because of the Arm Swing Illusion controlling what one believes to be possible -and impossible. This is DOING NOTHING with the arms.

 

Jim, i'm only about 20 pages in. I'm curious about the flat left wrist. Is this always the case?

 

Actually, I edited that last bit out. I tried it again and i seem to be able to keep it flat, but getting the wrist c0ck is a little tricky at the same time.

 

Yes - you want to create the flat left wrist during takeaway by hinging backwards with right wrist. Blend in the c0cking motion as well.

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I have not talked much about the role of "axis tilt" and the Arm Swing Illusion but here is one way to understand their relationship. What brings the arms down to re-connect to the body? Is it 100% gravity drop? Is it momentum from the Pivot? Is it the arm muscles pulling the arms down? (NO!)

 

In truth, it is a little bit of gravity drop, and a lot of momentum from Pivot rotation of hips, core and shoulder girdle. But it is also the fact that right lateral side bend or "axis tilt" both from upper lumbar area and mid-thoracic area of the spine MOVES THE ARMS CLOSER TO THE BODY. You can do this drill to prove it to yourself: go to the Top, on the Turned Shoulder Plane with your flat left wrist, and then shift your tailbone to your left a bit while you Tilt Switch from mid-back, ie go from 20 degrees left tilt to 10 degrees right tilt, and blend those two "tilts" with a little un-winding of your hips, core and shoulder girdle, not very much, just a bit. Try to keep your arms/hands/clubs back in their Top of backswing position. Most of you will be stunned when you see the tilts and rotation bring your hands/arms down into a perfect P6 position. The arms cannot stay up there at the Top. The pivot - and remember the tilts are part of the pivot - brings them down automatically. All of this "pull my arms down" to P6, or "pause at the Top and then throw my arms at the ball" or "time my gravity arm drop while I delay my pivot", is just stuff that comes about because of the Arm Swing Illusion controlling what one believes to be possible -and impossible. This is DOING NOTHING with the arms.

 

Jim, i'm only about 20 pages in. I'm curious about the flat left wrist. Is this always the case?

 

Actually, I edited that last bit out. I tried it again and i seem to be able to keep it flat, but getting the wrist c0ck is a little tricky at the same time.

 

This is a great nugget you found in the thread about the arms.

 

Jim - do the arms EVER do anything as far as applying "independent force" so to speak? In other words, once you get to P6 can you think about applying force or should they always rag doll, for lack of a better term? Or, have I misinterpreted the post above being quoted?

 

No - the arms have ZERO independent arm motion in the shoulder sockets from P6 to just after impact.

 

Not a "rag doll" - arms are sides of the Triangle and are moving very fast by the Pivot but ONLY by the Pivot.

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