Hi-Toe vs PM Grind - any comparisons?

[BostonWRX]

I found the Hi Toe 60 to be amazing from Bunkers. Better then my K grind.

 

Also loved it on full and 3/4 shots. I struggled with a few flops but the lies were super tight and first time golfing in months.

[Ivyguy]

Also, your edge makes a version too.

 

It's called the Rally wedge.

[Maximilian]

I've had the 64* PM since it came out and have had enough rounds and practice time with the 64* High-Toe now to feel comfortable writing my thoughts about them for anyone that's interested.

 

I like the high toe designs and groves all over the face on these two. Just gives me a lot of confidence from the rough and when laying the face flat open. But that is where I feel the similarities end, for my game.

 

With the PM, I find it very easy to open it up and hit a clean flop shot. Club slides effortlessly between the ball and grass. This is not as easy with the High-Tow. I can still do it, but it definitely plays like a higher bounce wedge for me. However, when hitting a more "normal" pitch shot with a bit of a divot, the High-Toe is more forgiving and I feel like I can be more aggressive when trying to maximize spin. Since I'm playing these in 64*, I can still produce a very high soft flop-ish looking shot with a more normal pitch swing, so I don't necessarily find the need very often for that pure flop, so in most cases I prefer the High-Toe from the fairway.

 

From the sand, the High-Toe is just fine, definitely works and I've hit a fair number of quality bunker shots. But there is something with the PM that just makes it absolutely automatic from the sand for me. I much prefer it over any wedge I've ever played from the sand.

 

So... still haven't decided which one I like the best. :-) Both have their strengths and weaknesses for me, but I can honestly say that I'm a fan of both of them! If I was forced to have a 60* or heaven forbid a 58* as my highest lofted wedge, I'm not so sure I would choose any of these. The PM would be fine for opening up from both the fairway and sand, but I would feel uncomfortable hitting a fuller swing with it. And I don't think a lower lofted High-Toe would be versatile enough for me around the green. I would probably like to at least have someone grind some heel or bounce or both off of it.

 

Well anywho, that's what I think. :-)

[knockdownnine]

I've had the 64* PM since it came out and have had enough rounds and practice time with the 64* High-Toe now to feel comfortable writing my thoughts about them for anyone that's interested.

 

I like the high toe designs and groves all over the face on these two. Just gives me a lot of confidence from the rough and when laying the face flat open. But that is where I feel the similarities end, for my game.

 

With the PM, I find it very easy to open it up and hit a clean flop shot. Club slides effortlessly between the ball and grass. This is not as easy with the High-Tow. I can still do it, but it definitely plays like a higher bounce wedge for me. However, when hitting a more "normal" pitch shot with a bit of a divot, the High-Toe is more forgiving and I feel like I can be more aggressive when trying to maximize spin. Since I'm playing these in 64*, I can still produce a very high soft flop-ish looking shot with a more normal pitch swing, so I don't necessarily find the need very often for that pure flop, so in most cases I prefer the High-Toe from the fairway.

 

From the sand, the High-Toe is just fine, definitely works and I've hit a fair number of quality bunker shots. But there is something with the PM that just makes it absolutely automatic from the sand for me. I much prefer it over any wedge I've ever played from the sand.

 

So... still haven't decided which one I like the best. :-) Both have their strengths and weaknesses for me, but I can honestly say that I'm a fan of both of them! If I was forced to have a 60* or heaven forbid a 58* as my highest lofted wedge, I'm not so sure I would choose any of these. The PM would be fine for opening up from both the fairway and sand, but I would feel uncomfortable hitting a fuller swing with it. And I don't think a lower lofted High-Toe would be versatile enough for me around the green. I would probably like to at least have someone grind some heel or bounce or both off of it.

 

Well anywho, that's what I think. :-)

 

Thank you for the detailed write up, very helpful

[ExTrumpet]

Whatever you like to look at...PM and Hi Toe are so similar that any preference is personal.

 

And both of them are clones of the old Ping Eye 2 with modern updates...not necessarily better, but certainly modern!

 

I've played all three and a Hi Toe is in the bag, so there's my opinion this week!

[1Mordrid1]

Doesn't matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it's kind in the current marketplace.

 

First, it is still being produced. Second, the Ping Glide ES grind is another option. Third, it does it better than Callaway or TM.

 

Not really. The Es has a slightly larger toe, but not as drastic as the TM hi-toe or PM grind. Nor does the Glide Es have the groves that extend further on the toe. So it really isn't even in the same category.

[ExTrumpet]

Doesn't matter much anymore... Callaway is no longer producing the PM Grind with the new MD4 wedges just released.

 

Unless you want a used wedge, the TM Hi-Toe will be the only option of it's kind in the current marketplace.

 

First, it is still being produced. Second, the Ping Glide ES grind is another option. Third, it does it better than Callaway or TM.

 

Not really. The Es has a slightly larger toe, but not as drastic as the TM hi-toe or PM grind. Nor does the Glide Es have the groves that extend further on the toe. So it really isn't even in the same category.

 

It could be argued that the sole grind alone puts it in the same category.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Grab a ping eye 2 sw for $25 and tell everyone you're old school.

 

It's the same club.

 

I have an old school Ping Eye2 Becu L wedge from about 1989. It's a great club, which is why I still have it. It's loft is 60.5* (last time I measured it). I've compared it to a PM Grind 60*, and it's really not that similar. Now, I'm pretty sure it inspired the PM Grind, as Phil is well-known for having used an Eye2 SW or LW (forget which), but they are not the same clubs. The offset is different, the sole is different, the back is different, and the face is actually quite different. Without looking it up, I would say the materials are also different. Obviously the grooves types are different, as is their pattern on the face. The Eye2 grooves on my old school L-wedge do not go all the way across the face.

[Joelsim]

I've had the 64* PM since it came out and have had enough rounds and practice time with the 64* High-Toe now to feel comfortable writing my thoughts about them for anyone that's interested.

 

I like the high toe designs and groves all over the face on these two. Just gives me a lot of confidence from the rough and when laying the face flat open. But that is where I feel the similarities end, for my game.

 

With the PM, I find it very easy to open it up and hit a clean flop shot. Club slides effortlessly between the ball and grass. This is not as easy with the High-Tow. I can still do it, but it definitely plays like a higher bounce wedge for me. However, when hitting a more "normal" pitch shot with a bit of a divot, the High-Toe is more forgiving and I feel like I can be more aggressive when trying to maximize spin. Since I'm playing these in 64*, I can still produce a very high soft flop-ish looking shot with a more normal pitch swing, so I don't necessarily find the need very often for that pure flop, so in most cases I prefer the High-Toe from the fairway.

 

From the sand, the High-Toe is just fine, definitely works and I've hit a fair number of quality bunker shots. But there is something with the PM that just makes it absolutely automatic from the sand for me. I much prefer it over any wedge I've ever played from the sand.

 

So... still haven't decided which one I like the best. :-) Both have their strengths and weaknesses for me, but I can honestly say that I'm a fan of both of them! If I was forced to have a 60* or heaven forbid a 58* as my highest lofted wedge, I'm not so sure I would choose any of these. The PM would be fine for opening up from both the fairway and sand, but I would feel uncomfortable hitting a fuller swing with it. And I don't think a lower lofted High-Toe would be versatile enough for me around the green. I would probably like to at least have someone grind some heel or bounce or both off of it.

 

Well anywho, that's what I think. :-)

 

Any thoughts on soft vs firm turf with these?

 

Great write-up btw.

[paztormike]

They truly are pretty similar. I have owned and played the PM Grind for the past year and a half. I have a friend who is on TM staff who brought out his Hi-Toe. He let me goof around with it for a couple of days.

 

As far as looks, you can judge a lot by the pictures on the website and in this thread. The Hi Toe has the look of slightly less offset.

I have the Black PM grind and the dark black finish on the club fades pretty quickly especially after some bunker practice. It still looks dark, but not nearly as dark as when I received it.

 

The Hi Toe definitely feels a little heavier in the head, and I would say that the Hi Toe felt just a bit softer. But it was not by a long shot.

 

My PM Grind had the stock KBS Tour V wedge shaft while my firend's Hi Toe has a DG wedge flex shaft. (I think it was the stock shaft?)

 

FOR ME:

The Hi Toe felt like the weight was lower in the club. I thought this because I had more trouble controlling the trajectory of the Hi Toe. With the PM grind wedge, I can hit lower punchy shots with ease. While the Hi Toe would float the ball up in the air higher than I was intending. This also affected the distance. I really have not hit too many full swings with Lob wedges in the past, however with the ability to control the PM grind trajectory, I actually like to hit 3/4 and full shots more often. If I owned the Hi Toe, I don't think that I would hit any fuller swings with it because it just seemed more difficult to manipulate the trajectory.

 

Both wedges were amazing from the sand and rough. Around the green, I felt the same way that I felt with the full shots. The Hi Toe just tended to hit the ball a little higher than I was used to which caused it to stop a little quicker. I didn't notice more or less spin with either, but I was not on a launch monitor and had nothing to measure the spin.

 

My conclusion is that I am very happy with the PM grind because of the trajectory control. I love the ability to hit a lower trajectory shot with it and use it with a 3/4 swing or full swing more often. The only thing that caused me to envy the Hi Toe was the slightly softer feel.

 

Since comparing the two, I ended up putting the 56 degree PM grind in my bag too along with the 60 that I was already using. I am immediately in love with the 56. I switched from the Callaway MD4 56 degree wedge. The PM grind wedge just suits me better.

 

Hope some of that helps.

[QuigleyDU]

i have played both, i am currently playing the hitoe. the verdict is still out with me if they are either any good. i have hit some shots that i thought were great, others not. they both seem to shoot up in the air.

[Jackrwesty]

Love both about equal, I can hardly tell difference in play. So I went with the one I just "felt " better with . So went with Callaway (also can find them cheaper and easier used!)

[ago33]

What is everyone playing as their wedge setup?

 

I have a 60 low bounce coming, might bend it weak based on 70-100 yard performance and use a 58

 

Thinking of either

 

46-51-56-60

 

Or

 

46-52-58-61