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EPIC FLASH SUB ZERO DIAMOND HEADS???? (Pics added page 7)


tbone18

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If you look at the confirming photo of the 3 star it has the standard Epic Flash SZ weight. If you look at the photo linked by RdS22 if has what appears to be an older Epic weight in the front...

 

I've tried the Epic Flash and it was good but span more than my Epic. I'd love to be able to put a heavier weight in the front but I don't want to increase the overall weight.

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It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.

 

I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.

 

That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?

 

I can see the frustration here but, to defend the oems a little. here is my thought. The consumers have historically been overwhelmed with that many choices and since most consumers still buy off the rack, it just doesn't make a ton of sense for that many skus at retail. You'd risk production forecasts being way off and excess inventory being left on rack and in warehouses which is the last thing a manufacturer ever wants.

 

As for the tour guys needing the options. The most important thing to the manufacturers here is getting as many guys as possible to bag those clubs and be visible on tv hitting them. This influences that same consumer to go buy it off the rack later that day. However, if you didn't build options for the tour professionals that did not perform at a level of of significance that can be seen in data and on the fairways, he is not going to see the value of potentially risking tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is the difference a couple fairways during the week can cost these guys.

 

So this is all a game of the oems value vs. the tour pro's value.

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It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.

 

I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.

 

That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?

 

I can see the frustration here but, to defend the oems a little. here is my thought. The consumers have historically been overwhelmed with that many choices and since most consumers still buy off the rack, it just doesn't make a ton of sense for that many skus at retail. You'd risk production forecasts being way off and excess inventory being left on rack and in warehouses which is the last thing a manufacturer ever wants.

 

As for the tour guys needing the options. The most important thing to the manufacturers here is getting as many guys as possible to bag those clubs and be visible on tv hitting them. This influences that same consumer to go buy it off the rack later that day. However, if you didn't build options for the tour professionals that did not perform at a level of of significance that can be seen in data and on the fairways, he is not going to see the value of potentially risking tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is the difference a couple fairways during the week can cost these guys.

 

So this is all a game of the oems value vs. the tour pro's value.

 

I definitely see your point. In retrospection, Callaway could theoretically put into place something similar to Titleist's MOTO program that they ran with the 915D4. You couldn't just walk into any shop and pick one up off the rack, you had to go get fit, and if the fitter determined you needed the "limited production" model, you could get one custom ordered. I would gladly wait a little longer to receive my club, and pay a little bit more, if the product was genuinely a seriously better fit for my game.

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The diamond models are simply to keep up with the tour demand. Multiple guys coming from other companies and need to feel comfortable with the shape and performance of the driver. The different diamond models have slightly different shapes and CG is different for different MOIs

:taylormade-small: Qi10 LS Driver 10.5D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 6x) 
:taylormade-small: Qi10 Tour 3 Fairway 15.0D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7x) 

Callaway   Apex UW 19.0D (Tensei AV Raw Blue 85tx)
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:titleist:Scotty Cameron Champions Choice NP2 33.5" - Lamkin Deep Etched Cord
 
 
 
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It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.

 

I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.

 

That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?

 

I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.

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It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.

 

I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.

 

That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?

 

I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.

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It has more to do with face design and CG I believe. The 2 diamond is for players that miss towards the toe, 3 diamonds I believe is high on the face and I don't know about 1 diamond.

 

I have the 2 diamond and it is significantly better on my toe misses.

 

That is a very interesting theory. With the artificial intelligence behind the face it would make sense for callaway to design club faces that suit certain misses better than other ones. Though you would think that if this is a possibility, why wouldn't they make this an option for the everyday consumer,? I have been a long time callaway loyalist, but this is putting a bad taste in my mouth. The thought that tour players are getting significantly superior product to than the consumer is aggravating. I am fully aware that for the majority of average golfers, a "strike specific" face is effectively useless. but for the more advanced players with a consistent, or predictable miss, why would they not want to provide them with the best possible driver?

 

I will take the picture of the 2 diamond tomorrow... Here is a 1 diamond that I have.

 

I like this quite a bit! How is the sound? Would you say it is loud like the retail versions are being reported as?

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
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Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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The feel is the same as epic

 

Just so I understand, are you referring to the original Epic or are you saying it's the same as the Epic Flash?

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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If they produced 14 different models for every miss their cost of production would be through the roof. Then people would be complaining about drivers costing 1000 plus. For their tour staff it’s reasonable because it’s only max a couple hundred custom units and it’s an advertising expense. Same thing for Scotty and the GSS most people will just complain about a 1000 plus putter

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1 Diamond and No Diamond = neutral to slightly more draw biased than others

2 diamond = fade biased (which is why this is my favorite :taunt: )

3 diamond = higher more forward CG. Those who hit it high on the face will see increased spin and ball speed.

 

Thanks for sharing! Is the 2 diamond drastically different in shape and size?

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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1 Diamond and No Diamond = neutral to slightly more draw biased than others

2 diamond = fade biased (which is why this is my favorite :taunt: )

3 diamond = higher more forward CG. Those who hit it high on the face will see increased spin and ball speed.

 

Thanks for sharing! Is the 2 diamond drastically different in shape and size?

 

1 and 2 diamond heads are a smaller more compact head

:taylormade-small: Qi10 LS Driver 10.5D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 6x) 
:taylormade-small: Qi10 Tour 3 Fairway 15.0D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7x) 

Callaway   Apex UW 19.0D (Tensei AV Raw Blue 85tx)
:taylormade-small: P7MC/P770 Irons (KBS $-Taper 120s) (5-PW)/(4i) Lamkin Crossline Cord (All Metals / Irons)
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Being told this is not a very good driver now

 

Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...

 

So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you’ve never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn’t like it. From what I’ve been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It’s definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.

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Hit the Flash sub zero last night.

Looks good behind the ball. I don’t mine the line on the crown reminds me of the FT Tour and I liked that head. At address it’s one of the best looking drivers Callaway has made in a while.

Performance was good. I was impressed. I was getting some pretty good results even with a shaft that was a bit too hefty for me (Accra Proto). But the sound ugh. It would take some getting used to.

 

Going to be a fun year in the driver category

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Being told this is not a very good driver now

 

Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...

 

So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you’ve never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn’t like it. From what I’ve been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It’s definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.

 

I’ll still test the Flash but it will not be on my own dime;)

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Like I just posted in the main Flash thread, TM has been the lighting rod for this type of thing for far too long, now the shoe is on the other foot. There is nothing wrong with secret tour heads but I know it drives regular consumers crazy.

 

Bring back the 440 Razr Fit Xtreme with flash face tech and jailbreak and I’ll reconsider Callaway fro drivers, until then it shall be TM and their sub 440 offerings

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Driver Shafts: Project X Evenflow Riptide MX 60TX & MCA Kai’Li White 70X

Mizuno ST Max 230 12.0 Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 6.5 @ 45.25”
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Like I just posted in the main Flash thread, TM has been the lighting rod for this type of thing for far too long, now the shoe is on the other foot. There is nothing wrong with secret tour heads but I know it drives regular consumers crazy.

 

Bring back the 440 Razr Fit Xtreme with flash face tech and jailbreak and I’ll reconsider Callaway fro drivers, until then it shall be TM and their sub 440 offerings

 

Very well said!

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Being told this is not a very good driver now

 

Cancelled my order before ever hitting it based on the feedback on here. The power of Wrx...

 

So that you can demo it first right? It seems silly to completely disregard a club you've never hit just because a handful of guys on the internet didn't like it. From what I've been reading it really seems like a 50/50 split on those who dislike it and those that do like it. It's definitely on my list to try this spring along with M5 and F9.

 

And to think some people swear they're not influenced by reviews, posts, advertising, etc. :rofl:

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Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

Titleist Pro V1X

 

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Retail vs 3 Diamond

 

Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!

:taylormade-small: Qi10 LS Driver 10.5D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 6x) 
:taylormade-small: Qi10 Tour 3 Fairway 15.0D (Graphite Design Tour AD DI 7x) 

Callaway   Apex UW 19.0D (Tensei AV Raw Blue 85tx)
:taylormade-small: P7MC/P770 Irons (KBS $-Taper 120s) (5-PW)/(4i) Lamkin Crossline Cord (All Metals / Irons)
 :taylormade-small:MG4 Wedges 50.09, 56.12, 60.08 (KBS $-Taper 120s)
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Retail vs 3 Diamond

Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!

 

I wonder how it compares to the non-SZ model. They look pretty similar shape wise.

 

I'm personally all about that single diamond posted earlier on this page. Not as rounded as the stock SZ and looks like a smaller footprint. The line doesn't bother me, take it or leave it I guess.

Cobra LTDx LS 10.5* w/Kai'Li 70TX
Ping G430 Max 15* w/OG Ventus Blue 7X
Titleist TSR2 7w w/Ventus Red TR 8X
Cobra King CB 4-PW w/KBS $Taper
Bettinardi BB1 w/UST Mamiya All-In Graphite 
Mizuno Copper T22 52, 56, 60 w/MCA MMT 125TX Wedge Shafts
TP5, Z Star XV, CSXLS

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Retail vs 3 Diamond

 

Great pictures. As I mentioned several times on this site the 3 diamond head is much larger and without the horizontal crown line. Most people like compact heads but this is why this club intrigued me so much. It’s a larger head with more MOI and looks more like my Rogue!

 

It is literally a completely different club. More differences than similarities.

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