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Swing weight factors in relation to parts


joey3108

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just bought a SW scale, did my irons and they are d6 with with the pw D7.25.

 

they have tour issue x100 1/4 long.

 

Is this normal for thm to be this high straight in as the 1/4 should only add 1.5 sw points?

 

how can I reduce the sw to d4?

Driver: M2, Ventus black

3w: Mizuno st 200, tense I blue

Hybrid: Mizuno clk 19

Irons: Mizuno JPX921 tours

wedges: Bettinardi HLX 3.0

Putter: Scotty Cameron H19

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Well, it's not very typical. (with a lack of standards in the industry, I don't like to use the term 'normal').

 

Do they feel too heavy to you? Is there something about the feel or results that makes you think the swing weight needs to be lowered? Remember it's not about the SW value, it's about the results.

 

How do you measure length? What grips? Who did the build (is it a factory build, local builder or yourself)? Any chance there are tip weights in place?

 

If it really is needed, the two effective ways to lower the swing weight would be to reduce the head weight or reduce the length. If there are no tip weights in place to remove, then reducing the head weight is possible but not always easy. Finding a machine shop to drill some material out of the bottom of the hosels is the most common way. Another way to help is to use 3/8" length increments instead of 1/2". That would reduce the SW for the longer clubs - where the heavier value is potentially more problematic.

 

And no, increasing the grip weight is not usually a very effective way if the SW/MOI really is too high for you and your swing. And if the static weight is a good fit, ideally you really don't want to reduce the shaft weight.

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Thanks for the reply.

 

The shafts are straight in with no weights. Tour Velvet Grips with one tape.

 

I like the feel of them but now im questioning if my bad shots are du tot he SW being too high.

 

I tink maybe used too much epoxy, if 2g head weight is 1 SW then that could be the reason.

 

I will take them out and try and get them to D4.

 

just out of interest how much epoxy is enough? eg 2 pea sized blobs mixed together?

Driver: M2, Ventus black

3w: Mizuno st 200, tense I blue

Hybrid: Mizuno clk 19

Irons: Mizuno JPX921 tours

wedges: Bettinardi HLX 3.0

Putter: Scotty Cameron H19

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Is there a rule of thumb about how much an increase or decrease of swingweights changes flex of shaft?

Great question. I've always felt like a lighter swingweight plays stiffer. There may not be anything behind that. Just my feeling.

 

It's not the swing weight that affects the way the shaft plays, it's strictly the total head weight (including any adjustments for swing weight and adapters for adjustable drivers/woods). And that value is compared to 'standard' head weights to determine how the shaft might be affected - which is also very dependent on the swing mechanics and the original profile of the shaft. Other factors than can effect swing weight will have no affect on the way the shaft will play.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Remember, this is just a ball park figure for normal most case.

 

Some shaft have tip or butt weight balance point that can not be applied on this rules.

 

1/2" = 3 swing weight points

 

2 gr club head weight = 1 swing weight point

 

5 gr grip = 1 swing weight point

 

9 gr shaft weight differences = 1 swing weight point

 

4* flatter lie or more up right lie = increase or decrease 1 swing weight point

 

Joe

I have a 915d2 that i want to take 1" off the butt of the club. It has the red 9 gram weight in it from Titleist. What weight do i need to keep the same swing weight, (or better) Do I need to move to the 14 or 17 g weight titleist makes?

Thanks in advance for the advice

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i prematurely got a 14g weight to replace the 9g weight, guess i need more.

The guy at Ed Watts said not to worry about the swing weight??

 

You should not worry about trying to restore the original swing weight. But you should play around with some lead tape and make the determination of how much to add back with a little range time. It should be based on feel and results, not a SW value that it had at a different length and that you were never fit for in the first place.

 

You can try by just starting out with that 14 gm and adding lead tape from there (it might even be plenty as it is).

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  • 2 months later...

Just ordered a TS3 with Evenflow T1100 at 44.5" and it came back at C9 after telling them I wanted it at D3. Not even sure if i want it now. Guess I will find out Monday when it comes in.

Driver: TM Sim2 Max Fuji Atmos Black TourSpec 7X

3W: TM M2 (2016) 3HL Fuji Atmos Black TourSpec 8TX

DI: Srixon ZX 20* AD DI Hybrid 95X

Irons: Titleist 716 AP2 4-PW TT X100

Wedges: Vokey SM8 50, 56, 60 TT X100

Putter: SC Newport 2 Custom

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

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Generally would C8 be considered too light of a swingweight for a driver that is 45 inches with a shaft weight of 75 grams?

 

It's lighter than what many would find a good fit but everyone is different. At what point it might become too light or too heavy is something each individual has to figure out for themselves.

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  • 1 month later...

Remember, this is just a ball park figure for normal most case.

 

Some shaft have tip or butt weight balance point that can not be applied on this rules.

 

1/2" = 3 swing weight points

 

2 gr club head weight = 1 swing weight point

 

5 gr grip = 1 swing weight point

 

9 gr shaft weight differences = 1 swing weight point

 

4* flatter lie or more up right lie = increase or decrease 1 swing weight point

 

Joe

this is fantastic, thanks

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  • 1 month later...

When club builders assemble a set of irons with the manufacturer's standard specs, do the weight differences in the heads of the irons compensate for the different lengths, so that if all else equal (same grip, same amount of glue, or whatever), the swingweight of all the irons naturally end being the same?

 

That's the intent with the designed (intended) head weights but the manufacturing process isn't perfect and will result in variations that builders will generally need to compensate for (as well as the need to compensate for the shaft lengths being cut imperfectly).

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Assuming all the spec is same between two shafts (length, flex, grip, grip weight, adapter, adapter weight, same driver head) except for the weight of the counterbalanced shaft (60g vs. 70g), which shaft is going to have higher swing weight and what would be the approximate swing weight difference? The particular shaft I'm referring to is Tensei Pro Orange. Since this is counter-balanced shaft, and the majority of the weight distribution is towards the butt-end of the shaft, would that mean it would lower the swing weight as the weight of the shaft increase from 60g to 70g?

Driver: Titleist TSr3 9° (Setting A1) - Mitsubishi Chemical TENSEI 1K Pro White 60, 45" Elite Y360°S

3 Wood: TaylorMade Stealth Plus 15° - Mitsubishi Chemical Diamana DF 70, 43" / Elite Y360°S

5 Wood: TaylorMade SIM 19° - Mitsubishi Chemical TENSEI AV RAW - White 85, 42" Elite Y360°S

Hybrid: Cobra KING F7 Hybrid 17.5° - Graphite Design Tour AD DI Hybrid 85, 41" / Elite Y360°S

Driving Iron: Srixon ZX UT 18°, 40" - Graphite Design Tour AD DI Hybrid 95, 39.75" / Elite Y360°S

Iron: 2022 KYOEI KK MB 4~PW - Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue / Golf Pride CPX / BB&F Thunderclap Ferrule

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM8 52° F Grind 12°, SM9 WedgeWorks 60° K Grind 6° - Dynamic Gold Tour Issue / Elite Y360°S / BB&F Fire & Ice Ferrule

Putter: Bettinardi BB-1F - 33.50" / KBS CT Tour Putter Shaft / Bettinardi Deep Etched Putter Grip

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x 

Bag: Vessel Player III DXR Stand   Glove: JAMA Glove

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Assuming all the spec is same between two shafts (length, flex, grip, grip weight, adapter, adapter weight, same driver head) except for the weight of the counterbalanced shaft (60g vs. 70g), which shaft is going to have higher swing weight and what would be the approximate swing weight difference?

....

Since this is counter-balanced shaft, and the majority of the weight distribution is towards the butt-end of the shaft, would that mean it would lower the swing weight as the weight of the shaft increase from 60g to 70g?

 

"counterbalanced" in the context of a shaft design could mean anything as far as how the balance point of the shaft was affected. There is no standard for balance point either with respect to counterbalanced shafts or non-counterbalanced shafts. So the only accurate way to find out how the swing weight might be affected relative to another shaft, is to install it and check the swing weight on a scale.

 

Well, if you want to take the time to measure the cut weight and balance point of both shafts (uninstalled), there are some online swing weight calculators that take the individual component specs (head weight, shaft weight, length and balance pt, and grip weight) and output an estimate of the swing weight.

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still lost... if i put a 71 gram shaft in my 3 wood that had a 82 gram shaft what titleist weight would i need to make it sw factory?

 

Try to imagine a see-saw.

 

Headweight on one end, Butt-End Grip weight on the other.

 

In general, putting a lighter shaft into your 3 wood, would result in a lower swing weight.

 

But what must be considered is the balance point.

 

Back to the see-saw, your shaft may be 71grams with a low balance point. As such, even at 71grams, you may have too high a swing weight.

 

On the other hand, if you have a counter balance shaft, ie: Mitsubishi Tensei cK Pro Orange/Hzrdus T1100 Handcrafted/Fujilkura Tour Spec 2.0, the shaft will have a high balance point, resulting in a very neutral or too low a swing weight.

 

So what you need to do, is put the 71gram shaft into your 3-wood head, get the swing weight measured.

 

If its too low, you need to add head weight.

 

You could add head weight by changing the weights in your 3-wood if it has any changeable weights.

 

You could add head weight by adding lead tape to the bottom of the 3-wood.

 

You could add head weight by putting tungsten powder or a head pin at the tip.

 

With every 3 grams you should get back 1 swing weight point, but it all comes down to the balance point of the shaft as described above.

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Assuming all the spec is same between two shafts (length, flex, grip, grip weight, adapter, adapter weight, same driver head) except for the weight of the counterbalanced shaft (60g vs. 70g), which shaft is going to have higher swing weight and what would be the approximate swing weight difference? The particular shaft I'm referring to is Tensei Pro Orange. Since this is counter-balanced shaft, and the majority of the weight distribution is towards the butt-end of the shaft, would that mean it would lower the swing weight as the weight of the shaft increase from 60g to 70g?

 

As long as you have a counter balanced shaft, the swing-weight will surely be lower than a low balanced shaft.

 

I game the Tensei cK Pro Orange 60TX and the balance point is almost 55%. Its the most counter balanced shaft in the market, which allows the player to put more head-weight onto the driver height to bring up the mass/swing weight.

 

Also do understand how heavy is your driver head(incl. adapter), every head weighs differently even if its the same brand & model. Like my Ping G400LST head weighed in at around 204 grams with the adapter and the stock head weight. With the Tensei cK Pro Orange 60TX butt trimmed to 43", the Swing Weight was D0. I had to change the weight in the head to a 13gram weight to bring up the swingweight just shy of D4.

 

To understand the balance point, like my above post, imagine a see-saw and instead of having it in the middle, the weight is biased to the back.

 

If you have a 60gram shaft with a low balance point, the swing weight with it might still be higher than a 70gram shaft with a super high balance point (counter-balanced shaft). But of course, alot of assumptions have to be made with regards to club-head weight, adapter weight etc.

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When club builders assemble a set of irons with the manufacturer's standard specs, do the weight differences in the heads of the irons compensate for the different lengths, so that if all else equal (same grip, same amount of glue, or whatever), the swingweight of all the irons naturally end being the same?

 

That's the intent with the designed (intended) head weights but the manufacturing process isn't perfect and will result in variations that builders will generally need to compensate for (as well as the need to compensate for the shaft lengths being cut imperfectly).

 

Thanks!

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When club builders assemble a set of irons with the manufacturer's standard specs, do the weight differences in the heads of the irons compensate for the different lengths, so that if all else equal (same grip, same amount of glue, or whatever), the swingweight of all the irons naturally end being the same?

 

In general yes. I personally think club head manufacturers tolerances are quite tight. So the weight differences are quite naturally progressive. Hence, in this equation, that leaves the shaft manufacturers.

 

Club builders inherently depend on the consistency of shaft manufacturers to accurately fit an average golfer.

 

Theres been a big debate about parallel tip shafts being more advantageous to the average golfer (compared to taper tips) because it allows for tip trimming to modify the flex & CPM frequency or EI profile of the shaft.

 

However, in terms of consistency in weight and weight distribution, taper tip shafts have the advantage here. This is because every shaft is made specifically to spec for each club.

 

This being said, only tour players will get such service of custom-made taper tip shafts from shaft manufacturers. Hence, commercially it still makes more sense for the average golfer to get parallel tip shafts.

 

So to answer your question, its a yes. They should be the same swing weight. but then sometimes, due to tolerances of parallel tip shafts and human error, there can be slight differences.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Got a bit of a dilemma. Recently switched from a driver playing d5 (razr fit xtreme with ahina 70x 43.5”) to one playing c7-8 (910d3 with kaili 70x 44”). I quite liked the feel of d5 but the feel of the new driver doesn’t really bother me. Didn’t really seem to affect my performance, either.

 

The dilemma is that the 3 wood (910 kaili 80x 42ish”) that’s playing c7-8 does feel a little light in the head. It’s most likely the Indian not the arrow. My hybrid is d1, irons d2, wedges d3. I just don’t feel in control of the 3 wood to the degree I would like.

 

Weights for the Titleist 910 are hard to come by. Id love to get my hands on the 12g weight (I think all the titleists came with a 7g weight). That would get the head weight up a touch.

 

I was told adding a tip weight would make the club a little more draw bias. I’d like to make the head feel heavier without lead tape or hot melt but I’m cautious of the tip weight. I like the sound/feel of the club as it is.

 

Does anyone have experience to share on tip weighting?

There's nothing in the rule book that says you can't play drunk.

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Weights for the Titleist 910 are hard to come by. Id love to get my hands on the 12g weight (I think all the titleists came with a 7g weight). That would get the head weight up a touch.

 

I was told adding a tip weight would make the club a little more draw bias. I'd like to make the head feel heavier without lead tape or hot melt but I'm cautious of the tip weight. I like the sound/feel of the club as it is.

 

No, tip weights will not give the club a draw bias even if you used the biggest ones @10 gm. Sure it's nice to us tip weights during the original build if you know you'll need them but after the fact, quite frankly, the lead tape is just so much easier, it's hard to understand that type of aversion. You can add or remove a little at a time to dial in the weight. Also, no need to pull the shaft and reinstall (which also means replacing the ferrule each time). On the sole, you wont even notice it's there at address.

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Weights for the Titleist 910 are hard to come by. Id love to get my hands on the 12g weight (I think all the titleists came with a 7g weight). That would get the head weight up a touch.

 

I was told adding a tip weight would make the club a little more draw bias. I'd like to make the head feel heavier without lead tape or hot melt but I'm cautious of the tip weight. I like the sound/feel of the club as it is.

 

No, tip weights will not give the club a draw bias even if you used the biggest ones @10 gm. Sure it's nice to us tip weights during the original build if you know you'll need them but after the fact, quite frankly, the lead tape is just so much easier, it's hard to understand that type of aversion. You can add or remove a little at a time to dial in the weight. Also, no need to pull the shaft and reinstall (which also means replacing the ferrule each time). On the sole, you wont even notice it's there at address.

 

Thanks for the info. It needs quite a bit of lead tape to get back to “d” and there isn’t much space for it but maybe just a little will get it feeling better. I was also concerned with turf interaction and the tape.

There's nothing in the rule book that says you can't play drunk.

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Well you don't really want it very close to the leading edge - not that it will do anything to the performance of the club, but it will increase the risk of the tape getting knocked of during play. Best places can vary depending on the design of the sole. Also can wrap it around the shaft as close to the hosel/ferrule as possible - I do that quite a bit to manage swing weight of multiple shafts used the same head.

 

For large amounts of weight, some times a combination can be needed since there are limits when using tip weights.

 

Even if you're going to use a tip weight in the long run - the lead tape approach will always be the best way to find out the best amount of weight to add.

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What you are thinkering with is NOT Swing weight, but Counterweight, and thats a hole different thing.

When we deal with a SW scale we must use it the way it was designed to be used, with a grip of 50-52 grams

If you go higher or lower, we do NOT read a correct SW value, but trick the scale by using plus or minus counterweight.

 

 

Thanks for everything in this thread - it's really helpful.

 

I've seen here and in another thread (that I'm having a hard time finding) where you've advocated for calculating swing weight without tape or a grip on the shaft, and simply deducting the 9 swing points you'd expect for a standard 50g grip. I love this approach because it seems to help with consistency, and prior to assembly it feels like there are about 984 different variables at play.

 

One thing bugging me though is the impact on length - since the cap of the grip will add 1/4" to 1/2", should I not adjust that 9 sw point factor? Or is that what you've already done by making it nine instead of, say, 11 (which would make sense with a 50g shaft and a rule of thumb of 5/g/sw point + one or so for tape)?

 

Thanks again.

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