Increasing apex of ball flight with irons

[Ray Jackson]

Trying to increase the apex of ball flight with my irons and would like to know what are the driving forces to do that.

 

So without flipping and adding loft at impact what increases ball flight (apex), is it swing speed, could my angle of attack be too steep, not enough spin, open face angle at impact, height of hands at top of backswing, downswing plane........

 

I know there could be a combination of many things but welcome the thoughts.

 

I am around a 0 index, 105 driver swing speed, 85-86 with a 6 iron -3 to -4 AOA with 6 iron

 

I don't want to give away my current apex, but want to know the variables that I will then work on.

 

I have access to Trackman.

 

Thanks in advance

[ksgolfcoach]

It’s tough to answer without more information, especially launch angle, spin and angle of descent. Ball speed is the primary factor, launch angle is another factor for sure but I would never tell you to try and increase it without knowing all your numbers. With your swing speed, 75 feet or higher would be fine. May I ask why you don’t want to give your current apex?

[Socrates]

In for the potential answers.

[Ray Jackson]

It's tough to answer without more information, especially launch angle, spin and angle of descent. Ball speed is the primary factor, launch angle is another factor for sure but I would never tell you to try and increase it without knowing all your numbers. With your swing speed, 75 feet or higher would be fine. May I ask why you don't want to give your current apex?

 

Launch angle is 15.5 - 16.5 I think

Spin is mid 4,000s to 5200 (that I think is low)

Apex is 75-85

 

I want to get the apex to 90 and increase the spin, but maybe at my 86 swing speed that isn't possible.

I am working on increasing that from a physical perspective but I am sure my sequencing needs a lot of work too.

Also my hands are not high enough at the top of the backswing, should probably shorten the backswing.

I play a Pro V1x (pre 2018 version)

[ksgolfcoach]

It's tough to answer without more information, especially launch angle, spin and angle of descent. Ball speed is the primary factor, launch angle is another factor for sure but I would never tell you to try and increase it without knowing all your numbers. With your swing speed, 75 feet or higher would be fine. May I ask why you don't want to give your current apex?

 

Launch angle is 15.5 - 16.5 I think

Spin is mid 4,000s to 5200 (that I think is low)

Apex is 75-85

 

I want to get the apex to 90 and increase the spin, but maybe at my 86 swing speed that isn't possible.

I am working on increasing that from a physical perspective but I am sure my sequencing needs a lot of work too.

Also my hands are not high enough at the top of the backswing, should probably shorten the backswing.

I play a Pro V1x (pre 2018 version)

 

Are we talking about six iron? Spin is low, was this off of grass or mat and indoors or out? You’re not going to get up to 90 feet with your swing speed, and 75-85 is just fine. Have to find out why the spin is so low but hitting off a mat can do it

[powerfade66]

Just read something relevant in Hank Haney’s book on Tiger. He uses a fuller throwing release in the US for higher trajectory and a condensed shorter release in The Open. Tiger only hit one driver in his 2006 win.

 

The flip has become such a thing to be avoided that it gets confused with simply hitting it closer to low point or altering weight distribution which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You don’t see as many of the long right arm finishes these days.

[Socrates]

You need to fill us in on what kind of irons and shafts you are playing.

[Cwebb]

What model irons and shafts are you using? It's very possible to change nothing about your swing, and get the apex up with equipment details.

 

One of the details I look at in detail, is the iron designs Actual Vertical COG. If it's too high for the given player, it makes everything a struggle

[NikeGolferTX]

Continue your swing to a full high finish.

 

Or swing like Rory and get some increased parametric forces going.

[Fort Worth Pro]

What is the landing angle? Spin is definitely low. Could be hitting off mat or shaft. I wouldn't really want to see you launch it much higher

[8overpar]

Continue your swing to a full high finish.

 

Or swing like Rory and get some increased parametric forces going.

This works for my swing. I hit one right of right on my 16th hole of the day. Very mature (tall) stand of trees between myself and the correct fairway. 9 iron with a high (for me) finish and managed to clear the hurdle and continue my round.

[Ray Jackson]

What model irons and shafts are you using? It's very possible to change nothing about your swing, and get the apex up with equipment details.

 

One of the details I look at in detail, is the iron designs Actual Vertical COG. If it's too high for the given player, it makes everything a struggle

 

Taylormade 770s with C Taper lite stiff shafts.

yes those were 6 iron numbers

was hitting indoors off a fairly fluffy mat

[Ray Jackson]

What model irons and shafts are you using? It's very possible to change nothing about your swing, and get the apex up with equipment details.

 

One of the details I look at in detail, is the iron designs Actual Vertical COG. If it's too high for the given player, it makes everything a struggle

 

Taylormade 770s with C Taper lite stiff shafts.

yes those were 6 iron numbers

was hitting indoors off a fairly fluffy mat

 

 

hit some shots with 790s with same c taper lite stiff and spin went up and apex a little higher, I guess that's the easy answer, change irons

[ksgolfcoach]

C-taper are meant to keep the ball down and the spin down. Also, I just don’t believe TrackMan, or any radar, indoors. Find a way to hit some outside on grass before you start changing things

[jakenlson0311]

C-taper are meant to keep the ball down and the spin down. Also, I just don’t believe TrackMan, or any radar, indoors. Find a way to hit some outside on grass before you start changing things

This is incorrect. The C-Taper lite is designed for mid launch low spin. The regular C-taper was low, low, still There are defiantly higher launching shafts out there.

[ThinkingPlus]

The P770s and P790s have about the same VCoG so you won't see much difference there due to that clubhead design feature. I just did an iron shaft fitting at CC. My numbers with the P790 were 76 mph, low 4000s spin, and apex in the low 70s so clubhead speed is not holding you back. The shaft was a KBS Tour. I am a sweeper and generally have a low AoA (couple degrees down). If they ever email my numbers to me I will post here.

[Ray Jackson]

C-taper are meant to keep the ball down and the spin down. Also, I just don't believe TrackMan, or any radar, indoors. Find a way to hit some outside on grass before you start changing things

 

KS

Thanks, yeah tough to get on TM on a grass range. The apex isn't hurting my regular play as the greens aren't super firm, however in tournament golf it could when I play away, hence the goal to increase the flight. I know I need to get my shoulder plane more vertical than its flat position right now and I think that will help. I know because for short periods of time I get it right and the flight does increase, but then I slip back into old habits. If I could work out how i'd post a recent driver swing video and you can see what I mean = hands very low at top of backswing.

[Ray Jackson]

The P770s and P790s have about the same VCoG so you won't see much difference there due to that clubhead design feature. I just did an iron shaft fitting at CC. My numbers with the P790 were 76 mph, low 4000s spin, and apex in the low 70s so clubhead speed is not holding you back. The shaft was a KBS Tour. I am a sweeper and generally have a low AoA (couple degrees down). If they ever email my numbers to me I will post here.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I was considering switching to the 790s (buddy would give me a good deal) but I got a handful of rockets with them where the distance control was hard so I am skeptical. The problem I have found with the high launch iron shafts in the past is that they have been lighter in weight and that has affected my timing.

I think the real issues are my shoulder plane/tilt and left hand rotation down to the ground at impact is lacking still. so will work on that.

[Ray Jackson]

Anyone who knows how to post a video please PM me

[Socrates]

After reading all the posts, I think you might be looking to change something when there really isn't anything wrong. Maybe you could find a way to increase the clubhead speed, but I would be vary wary of "fixing" your swing. Likely the easiest/safest method to increase your apex, is to find a club head design that you like that increases the launch angle (keeping everything else the same).

 

Upload a video to a website and then paste the url link into a post.

[ThinkingPlus]

The P770s and P790s have about the same VCoG so you won't see much difference there due to that clubhead design feature. I just did an iron shaft fitting at CC. My numbers with the P790 were 76 mph, low 4000s spin, and apex in the low 70s so clubhead speed is not holding you back. The shaft was a KBS Tour. I am a sweeper and generally have a low AoA (couple degrees down). If they ever email my numbers to me I will post here.

Here are my shaft fitting numbers from CC yesterday. Took out the obvious clankers.

 

6iTM P790 kbs tour

CHS BS SF Spin Carry Total Launch SS Apex Land. Ang.

Mph Mph Rpm Yds Yds Deg Ft Ft Deg

1 75.1 106.2 1.42 4043 155.7 172.1 18.3 10.9R 71 39.6

2 76.3 107.1 1.4 4075 157.3 173.6 18.3 22.7R 72 40

3 75.3 106.8 1.42 4270 155.6 171.4 17.9 24.3R 71 39.8

4 75.9 107.4 1.41 4309 156.5 172.2 17.7 12.1R 71 39.8

5 76 106.4 1.4 3853 156 174 17.9 1.2L 68 38.4

6 75.8 107.1 1.41 4188 156.5 172.6 17.8 8.9R 70 39.6

[Ray Jackson]

[Socrates]

I see Monte is lurking so I will defer any comments to him as why not get the best info.

[Ray Jackson]

I see Monte is lurking so I will defer any comments to him as why not get the best info.

 

Be gentle people :)

[starsail85]

Weaken your lofts

 

If you still can’t get it up , go to the doctor

[Socrates]

I see Monte is lurking so I will defer any comments to him as why not get the best info.

 

Be gentle people :)

Kinda flat. Okay, really flat, but it works. I'll assume the 0 hcp isn't fake news. You might be in for a world of hurt trying to change things just to get a higher ball flight. I would recommend a move to Texas and you will be a killer in the wind.

[Ray Jackson]

0 isn’t fake news, I know my limitations and + handicap putter. Used the 790s again today and they look like there making a difference.

[getitdaily]

Have you tried simply moving to a higher spin ball? Pro v1x is low spin. Regular pro v1 may Apex higher by spinning more.

[Ray Jackson]

Using a pro V1x pre 2018 version right now. The 790s seem to be making a difference with that ball

[Ray Jackson]

I will get back on Trackman with the 790s after another round and study the spin numbers. Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I will also work on that backswing shoulder plane and post another video.