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Why don't people take lessons ?


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4 yrs as opposed to 30. That's 26 yrs swinging the club a certain way..

It's not a case of why people don't take them, it's a case of how long it will take to change 26 yrs of play.

 

I play off 5 and 3 yrs ago I decided to really make a go of getting as low as I can.

I'm only 44 and playing 10 yrs but it has taken me the last 3 with at least 18 lessons over those 3 yrs winter months to change a swing past.

I'm in no way comfortable on the course with hitting in to out and on the range with drills I can get a draw going but I can't trust it on the course.

I score better playing a fade as well.. I'm pretty textbook looking with everything grip,stance,posture, but for the life of me swinging in to out is damaging me on the course. I can't post a proper score with it.. I can't trust it because I have a 5 way ball flight and I only have a 1 way miss with a fade. I also have a quicker swing speed with a fade because I'm opened up to the target a bit better. Strike is so much better as well.

 

I also play with a scratch player that has never had a lesson and if you were to send him for one there's numerous things a pro would likely change in his swing.. He has a very strong grip, a really flat swing, very bad posture, but he's swung that way from day one.

 

If your starting out by all means have at the lessons and trust your pro. But someone that's a seasoned golfer will struggle with changes. I'm not saying it's not doable but it requires a really strong mindset and a lot of time.

Here is where I disagree with you . A good teacher is NOT going to rip apart a scratch player swing . A good coach is not going to change that very strong grip, or flat swing ....they're obviously producing good results. A good coach will find something subtle ...like maybe that bad posture and work on that to produce a bit more consistent results in what is already obviously a quite functional swing .

 

That's what they 'say' up front. They have to put their little trademark, or stamp, on your swing so they will inevitably do something unnecessary.

 

Best lessons I ever had was from a teacher who had me perfect my setup, get my back swing more up right, then let me figure it out from there. Eight lessons for $400. Best money I ever spent.

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4 yrs as opposed to 30. That's 26 yrs swinging the club a certain way..

It's not a case of why people don't take them, it's a case of how long it will take to change 26 yrs of play.

 

I play off 5 and 3 yrs ago I decided to really make a go of getting as low as I can.

I'm only 44 and playing 10 yrs but it has taken me the last 3 with at least 18 lessons over those 3 yrs winter months to change a swing past.

I'm in no way comfortable on the course with hitting in to out and on the range with drills I can get a draw going but I can't trust it on the course.

I score better playing a fade as well.. I'm pretty textbook looking with everything grip,stance,posture, but for the life of me swinging in to out is damaging me on the course. I can't post a proper score with it.. I can't trust it because I have a 5 way ball flight and I only have a 1 way miss with a fade. I also have a quicker swing speed with a fade because I'm opened up to the target a bit better. Strike is so much better as well.

 

I also play with a scratch player that has never had a lesson and if you were to send him for one there's numerous things a pro would likely change in his swing.. He has a very strong grip, a really flat swing, very bad posture, but he's swung that way from day one.

 

If your starting out by all means have at the lessons and trust your pro. But someone that's a seasoned golfer will struggle with changes. I'm not saying it's not doable but it requires a really strong mindset and a lot of time.

Here is where I disagree with you . A good teacher is NOT going to rip apart a scratch player swing . A good coach is not going to change that very strong grip, or flat swing ....they're obviously producing good results. A good coach will find something subtle ...like maybe that bad posture and work on that to produce a bit more consistent results in what is already obviously a quite functional swing .

 

That's what they 'say' up front. They have to put their little trademark, or stamp, on your swing so they will inevitably do something unnecessary.

 

Best lessons I ever had was from a teacher who had me perfect my setup, get my back swing more up right, then let me figure it out from there. Eight lessons for $400. Best money I ever spent.

sounds to me like that teacher didn't try and put their "stamp" on your swing. You pretty much described a scenario exactly how I explained.
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People think they can watch golf shows or YouTube videos or read magazines and not only accurately diagnose their problems but also fix them.

 

Could have locked this baby up after the first two responses. Two home runs and 100% correct. It's mind boggling.

 

Actually a little bit of research, watching good players and listening what better players have to say and you can do a lot on your own.

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4 yrs as opposed to 30. That's 26 yrs swinging the club a certain way..

It's not a case of why people don't take them, it's a case of how long it will take to change 26 yrs of play.

 

I play off 5 and 3 yrs ago I decided to really make a go of getting as low as I can.

I'm only 44 and playing 10 yrs but it has taken me the last 3 with at least 18 lessons over those 3 yrs winter months to change a swing past.

I'm in no way comfortable on the course with hitting in to out and on the range with drills I can get a draw going but I can't trust it on the course.

I score better playing a fade as well.. I'm pretty textbook looking with everything grip,stance,posture, but for the life of me swinging in to out is damaging me on the course. I can't post a proper score with it.. I can't trust it because I have a 5 way ball flight and I only have a 1 way miss with a fade. I also have a quicker swing speed with a fade because I'm opened up to the target a bit better. Strike is so much better as well.

 

I also play with a scratch player that has never had a lesson and if you were to send him for one there's numerous things a pro would likely change in his swing.. He has a very strong grip, a really flat swing, very bad posture, but he's swung that way from day one.

 

If your starting out by all means have at the lessons and trust your pro. But someone that's a seasoned golfer will struggle with changes. I'm not saying it's not doable but it requires a really strong mindset and a lot of time.

Here is where I disagree with you . A good teacher is NOT going to rip apart a scratch player swing . A good coach is not going to change that very strong grip, or flat swing ....they're obviously producing good results. A good coach will find something subtle ...like maybe that bad posture and work on that to produce a bit more consistent results in what is already obviously a quite functional swing .

 

That's what they 'say' up front. They have to put their little trademark, or stamp, on your swing so they will inevitably do something unnecessary.

 

Best lessons I ever had was from a teacher who had me perfect my setup, get my back swing more up right, then let me figure it out from there. Eight lessons for $400. Best money I ever spent.

You are correct. I should have stated that there are very, very, very, very few that actually have the discipline and restraint to do that.

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People think they can watch golf shows or YouTube videos or read magazines and not only accurately diagnose their problems but also fix them.

 

Could have locked this baby up after the first two responses. Two home runs and 100% correct. It's mind boggling.

 

Actually a little bit of research, watching good players and listening what better players have to say and you can do a lot on your own.

 

Not only that, but the average teacher that you're paying 100s an hour is providing the same information as a 30 second Google search. There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

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People think they can watch golf shows or YouTube videos or read magazines and not only accurately diagnose their problems but also fix them.

 

Could have locked this baby up after the first two responses. Two home runs and 100% correct. It's mind boggling.

 

Actually a little bit of research, watching good players and listening what better players have to say and you can do a lot on your own.

 

Not only that, but the average teacher that you're paying 100s an hour is providing the same information as a 30 second Google search. There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

 

Not even close to accurate

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There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

 

The teacher's I've seen that charge that much aren't really that good, they're just famous.

 

That’s true, the ones that cost that much are just famous particularly for having a top pga pro at one point is all. Nothing particularly special

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There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

 

The teacher's I've seen that charge that much aren't really that good, they're just famous.

 

That's true, the ones that cost that much are just famous particularly for having a top pga pro at one point is all. Nothing particularly special

Kind of like the ones that use this site to promote themselves, make lots of money and have everyone believe they have all the answers. Those other instructors are MUCH worse.

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1) There are a lot of instructors that do not have good, or even decent, information, they're usually better players that generalize either what they did or what other better players say they do. The level of information is so good now, but the industry as a whole needs to catch up, this makes finding a good instructor hard.

 

2) A lot of it falls on the student, if you work full time and happen to take a lesson, proceed to not practice in the two weeks between the next lesson, it's not going to work regardless of how great the teacher is.

 

3) There has to be some technology, launch monitor, force plates, etc.

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There are super talented teachers, but you're looking at spending over $1000 to get in the door.

 

The teacher's I've seen that charge that much aren't really that good, they're just famous.

iteach gets $150.00 for an hour. My BIL and I were going to do a full day with Martin Chuck, that was going to be $1200.00 and included a round of golf at a very nice resort. We had to cancel, but that didn't seem out of line. If it wasn't 1400 miles, I would certainly go visit iteach. I would make him cry, but still ...
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I think there are a few aspects to this.

 

There are players that maybe never took a lesson, made improvements themselves and don't see any value in taking instruction at this point. They've made some progress and they believe they can make more

 

There are certainly those that never took a lesson and find it uncomfortable having their swing picked apart (the ego thing)

 

There are probably others that never took a lesson, but play functionally, say, to a mid handicap and are afraid of starting some long and expensive journey with no guarantees of improvement

 

I've had some good lessons, but I've also had some really poor ones where I actually lost progress I had made and felt like I didn't even know what end of the club to hold. For every iTeach out there I believe there are a fair few so-so teachers that can get a student into a pickle and not necessarily have the requisite skills to get them out of it

 

Bingo, bango, and bongo on those, they all apply to me. I play to a 10.7. I want to get that down to single digits and I know I can. I just need to work at what I have, or at least I think I do.

 

The long and expensive part is huge too. I know what got me here won't get me there, but at the same time with lessons being $50-100/ hour, if I have 1 a week Im looking at between $2500-5000/year and thats quite a sum. Plus for the first few months, my game will be terrible as I balance new with old, and golf the recreational pursuit will be miserable. Golf the sporting endeavor will improve, but let's face it, its less than 1% my handicap will ever allow me to register for the US am/open anyway, so golf the sporting endeavor is a pipe dream anyhow.

 

One day I might take a lesson or two but Id rather pocket that cash and go spend it playing. If I ever find myself in a position where practice every day is feasible, I'll reconsider

 

The investment shouldn't be that large since you shouldn't be taking one lesson every week :)

 

I think iTeach mentioned it earlier this thread that there should be a bigger gap in between sessions that that

 

One lesson a week is overkill unless you are high level player and have loads of time to practice. Honestly take a lesson once every two months for 2 hours and then work on it. Its progression takes time.

 

Wait a second then who’s going to buy GolfTecs package deals? Haha

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I've seen "ego" mentioned a few times and that just seems absurd. Are that many people THAT emotionally fragile? Not sure I buy it.

 

For me, it's about trusting an instructor to be capable of applying their knowledge of the golf swing to identifying and helping me actually fix problems in my swing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not delusional enough to believe that I know more about the golf swing than the thousands of good instructors around the world, I just recognize that trying to improve the swing of better players is extremely hard. Especially considering the many different swing/body-type combinations that can produce a similar result; it seems unreasonable to expect any one person to be an authority for everyone. I'm tall (6'5) and lean with short arms (6'3 wingspan), so diagnosing issues in my swing and then prescribing fixes will probably be meaningfully different than doing the same for a short big guy with long arms.

 

Point being, I need to think extremely highly of a given instructor before I'm comfortable working with them.

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I've seen "ego" mentioned a few times and that just seems absurd. Are that many people THAT emotionally fragile? Not sure I buy it.

 

For me, it's about trusting an instructor to be capable of applying their knowledge of the golf swing to identifying and helping me actually fix problems in my swing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not delusional enough to believe that I know more about the golf swing than the thousands of good instructors around the world, I just recognize that trying to improve the swing of better players is extremely hard. Especially considering the many different swing/body-type combinations that can produce a similar result; it seems unreasonable to expect any one person to be an authority for everyone. I'm tall (6'5) and lean with short arms (6'3 wingspan), so diagnosing issues in my swing and then prescribing fixes will probably be meaningfully different than doing the same for a short big guy with long arms.

 

Point being, I need to think extremely highly of a given instructor before I'm comfortable working with them.

 

Yes alot of golfers are what Gio Valiante calls: Ego Golfers. They are driven by how people think about them and kudos given to them by friends. Instead of practicing they will stop by and talk with friends when they arrive at the course.

The opposite is a Mastery golfer, one who just wants to continually improve and doesn’t need all the lime light.

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I would gander that more people are taking lessons, but the demographic that is, is taking lessons from a small subset of pros who have taken advantage of the better information and all the advances technology has offered in the past 10-15 years. I think more importantly the internet has served as an incredible communication tool, for information to get out there and pros to bounce ideas of each other, less working in a vacuum. Those pros who put in the time and sweat to be a most effective instructor, are probably busy but a still large percentage of pros have a lot of catching up to do.

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mostly has to do with fact that average pro has no idea how to help people.

 

the good ones make people better almost instantly but I would say the lack of faith in avg joe golf pro is reason the avg person doesn't take lessons. I would say a lesson with an average joe pro is no different than reading a golf magazine in the information you hear. " You got too quick with that one," " keep your head down," etc etc

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1) There are a lot of instructors that do not have good, or even decent, information, they're usually better players that generalize either what they did or what other better players say they do. The level of information is so good now, but the industry as a whole needs to catch up, this makes finding a good instructor hard.

 

2) A lot of it falls on the student, if you work full time and happen to take a lesson, proceed to not practice in the two weeks between the next lesson, it's not going to work regardless of how great the teacher is.

 

3) There has to be some technology, launch monitor, force plates, etc.

 

Just a note but technology is not needed to correct the majority of golfers because their flaws and their causes are so obvious. It does however assist in showing the more bull-headed ones what's going on and how a small change can have a positive chain reaction.

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Trust is a big factor, especially if you really want to build a solid golf swing. When you go in for a lesson, if you are not a single digit chances are some major changes are going to have to be made. You will not get great overnight, but you will get better with practice, and proper instruction. Technology helps immediatley in my experiance being able to see your swing from more than one camera, is instant feedback. Also working with a pro that can communcate what you need to change in a way you understand is a big piece. I saw dramatic change in two weeks, and one lesson, now I have completed 4 total and its night and day. About 2 months in, I am still grooving the swing, and distance changes through the bag. It would have taken years to get this far on my own. I was a 14 handicap going in, I would like to get to single digits thjs year or next.

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I've seen "ego" mentioned a few times and that just seems absurd. Are that many people THAT emotionally fragile? Not sure I buy it.

 

For me, it's about trusting an instructor to be capable of applying their knowledge of the golf swing to identifying and helping me actually fix problems in my swing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not delusional enough to believe that I know more about the golf swing than the thousands of good instructors around the world, I just recognize that trying to improve the swing of better players is extremely hard. Especially considering the many different swing/body-type combinations that can produce a similar result; it seems unreasonable to expect any one person to be an authority for everyone. I'm tall (6'5) and lean with short arms (6'3 wingspan), so diagnosing issues in my swing and then prescribing fixes will probably be meaningfully different than doing the same for a short big guy with long arms.

 

Point being, I need to think extremely highly of a given instructor before I'm comfortable working with them.

 

"Ego" is absurd? That's some statement in itself.

 

The number of average club golfers that genuinely believe that they hit their 7 iron 150 yards when the reality is closer to 120 yards is staggering. Even more so is their stubborn refusal to acknowledge "honesty" as I mentioned in my earlier post.

 

And it's both sides of the pond. When I was in Florida before Christmas all bar two guys I was paired with over 3 weeks actually knew how far they hit their clubs. And I'm standing with my Bushnell, 150 yards to the flag, they pull 7 iron and they're short. The GPS is "wrong" and they vehemently deny that they actually hit their 7 iron 120 yards.

 

250 yards out on a par 5 and they're waiting for the green to clear before flushing their 3 wood 180 yards. This is their "250 yard club.'

 

And so it went on. Boasting to their friends, who willingly took part in the collusion. It's all ego. A high percentage of people will never improve or take lessons because it means acknowledging the glaring weaknesses in their games.

 

 

 

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"Ego" is absurd? That's some statement in itself.

 

The number of average club golfers that genuinely believe that they hit their 7 iron 150 yards when the reality is closer to 120 yards is staggering. Even more so is their stubborn refusal to acknowledge "honesty" as I mentioned in my earlier post.

What do you mean by 'hit it 120 yards', though?. Do you mean carry or total distance? Because I used to hit a 7i about 120 yards in total with my old swing and I was definitely a short hitter. With my current swing at the moment (wet and somewhat cold courses) if I swing a 7i the ball will come to rest about 140 yards away from where I'm standing. I also don't know many people who don't seem to know their distances. Nearly everyone I play with uses a GPS device (as do I) so you'd have to be pretty delusional (and a very bad scorer) to confuse 150 yards with 120 when using a 7i.

 

I've also not met anyone who was particularly proud of their swing or felt ashamed of it. Everyone seems to accept that their swing is a work in progress and probably always will be. The idea that significant numbers of golfers avoid lessons for fear of being criticised or out of embarrassment just doesn't ring true to me.

 

I think that cost, practice time and the questionable personal value of lessons is why most amateurs don't bother.

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I just learned how to hit a PW 155 yards on this forum. Why would I need to take lessons?

 

Monte hits his pw 130. This guy was the world long drive champion. I know ur post is a joke, but I think people need to realize that they need to stop hitting the wedges full

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"Ego" is absurd? That's some statement in itself.

 

The number of average club golfers that genuinely believe that they hit their 7 iron 150 yards when the reality is closer to 120 yards is staggering. Even more so is their stubborn refusal to acknowledge "honesty" as I mentioned in my earlier post.

What do you mean by 'hit it 120 yards', though?. Do you mean carry or total distance? Because I used to hit a 7i about 120 yards in total with my old swing and I was definitely a short hitter. With my current swing at the moment (wet and somewhat cold courses) if I swing a 7i the ball will come to rest about 140 yards away from where I'm standing. I also don't know many people who don't seem to know their distances. Nearly everyone I play with uses a GPS device (as do I) so you'd have to be pretty delusional (and a very bad scorer) to confuse 150 yards with 120 when using a 7i.

 

I've also not met anyone who was particularly proud of their swing or felt ashamed of it. Everyone seems to accept that their swing is a work in progress and probably always will be. The idea that significant numbers of golfers avoid lessons for fear of being criticised or out of embarrassment just doesn't ring true to me.

 

I think that cost, practice time and the questionable personal value of lessons is why most amateurs don't bother.

 

From my recent experiences that's total distance, maybe 105-110 carry plus the extra roll out.

 

For me distance long or short doesn't matter and that in itself is fine during a round. What I dislike is the percentage of players that don't know or in denial about their game.

 

I'm speaking to my experiences and discussions I've had with my coach about this subject. If it's not your experience that's fine but others have acknowledged that one of the reasons people take a lesson and don't go back is because they don't accept where their game is and don't want to put the time in to get better. It's easy to do what you've always done. And it's cheaper.

 

 

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I just learned how to hit a PW 155 yards on this forum. Why would I need to take lessons?

 

Monte hits his pw 130. This guy was the world long drive champion. I know ur post is a joke, but I think people need to realize that they need to stop hitting the wedges full

 

Exactly my point.

 

There are so many ‘quick tips’ on distance... When did scoring get left behind?

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Because it's golf, not rocket science.

 

Because for every good instructor, there are three or four really bad ones.

 

Because the non-intuitive mind hates being reminded of reality.

 

 

Some combination of that.

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I just learned how to hit a PW 155 yards on this forum. Why would I need to take lessons?

 

Monte hits his pw 130. This guy was the world long drive champion. I know ur post is a joke, but I think people need to realize that they need to stop hitting the wedges full

 

Thing is, if one cannot intuitively figure that out after a few years of golf and numerous missed greens, they probably are always going to struggle when playing the game.

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I just learned how to hit a PW 155 yards on this forum. Why would I need to take lessons?

 

I still don’t know how Coach Lockey hits his 56 150 On crossfields channel. If not that far, then it goes really far. I was just surprised at his distance.

 

I did this Bubba Watson style swing one day, about killed myself from injuries with it, but I could hit my 9 160 and my 7 180.

Used it on course too, but my instructor told me to not do that. Lol

Maybe one day I will regain that distance with a normal swing.

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I just learned how to hit a PW 155 yards on this forum. Why would I need to take lessons?

 

I still don’t know how Coach Lockey hits his 56 150 On crossfields channel. If not that far, then it goes really far. I was just surprised at his distance.

 

I did this Bubba Watson style swing one day, about killed myself from injuries with it, but I could hit my 9 160 and my 7 180.

Used it on course too, but my instructor told me to not do that. Lol

Maybe one day I will regain that distance with a normal swing.

 

It is funny. What I’d want more than anything from an instructor is to hit better approach shots from 70 to 150 yards.

 

Other than driver every other club is designed to hit the ball a limited distance.

 

If my PW is a 150 club then my chances of scoring just got harder.

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      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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