Phil Mickelson swing/ball speed

[OldTomMorris]

It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.

 

I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.

[Nard_S]

Great final round this week. Nice to see him bounce back after the lull started at Shinnecock. I like his mentality of hit it hard and don't back off. His swing is old school, which served Watson and Snead just fine. Hope he repeats at Pebble this June.

[MidwestGolfBum]

It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.

 

I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.

 

Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.

 

I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.

[SixtySomePing]

Driver ball speed has been a useful parameter for length off the tee. DJ, Brooks, Rory own the 180+ territory; Cameron Champ now redefines it with 190+ range lol. Tiger post back surgery clocks 180s on occasions. Phil has always been in the low to mid 170s. What happened over the winter break? He's mentioned the core training (blah blah) that laymen wouldn't understand. At 48 (turning 49 in June), he now clocks 180s regularly at the Hope and even down in Monterey in the cold weather. I find this remarkable. Don't you?

No, not remarkable. I'll be 68 in March, and the only swing speed I've lost happened in my 60's. So at 49, that's really not anything remarkable as long as he has no back trouble. It should be an encouragement to you younger guys, you still have it in you, take advantage of what Phil is doing, it's still possible for you too. Keep working with your accuracy as well, so when you get to be my age and beyond, golf will be just as enjoyable.

[lspky_muskie]

The SuperSpeed system coupled with a lot of core work, flexibility work, and explosive movements in the gym seem to be the magic bullet. I went from 112 to 98 last year after having my first child a year ago and sitting on my butt a lot. Started back in the gym in August and played a few times per month and didn’t see any speed come back. Started SuperSpeed on Christmas Day, and I was touching 110 last weekend.

 

 

[Christosterone]

Look at it from this perspective(pun intended)

 

Absolutely beautiful, fluid swing that is as long as Bobby Jones....couple that with modern equipment and modern balls, you get a timeless swing...

 

-Chris

[dpb5031]

It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.

 

I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.

 

Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.

 

I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.

 

Why would you think the guys who lift weights will lose flexibility? That's a fallacy. If anything, weight training typically improves range of motion. A strong and fit body is also less prone to injury.

 

BTW, I'm fairly certain Phil hits the weights as well. It may not be as obvious due to genetic predisposition/body-type, but he's lifting, stretching, doing speed work, etc...

[MidwestGolfBum]

It'll be interesting to see if the guys who hit the weights (Koepka, Rory, DJ, JT etc.) have the flexibility Phil has at 48 or maybe they aren't counting on that kind of longevity hoping to have all their success in their 20s and 30s. I'm sure they are getting the best advice regarding their bodies but I'd curious to hear informed opinions as its something I know very little about.

 

I've always liked Phil as a golfer but I'm really impressed with the way he's hit the ground running in 2019 especially the driver. I commented at the time of The Match I was really impressed with his driving but I didn't read too much into it back then, seems like he has really found something.

 

Also know very little, but I would guess that their training changes as the years go by to help sustain their bodies for the long term. Of course, it will be very interesting to see if they end up down the injury path and never really come back all the way... Only time will tell.

 

I'm also very interesting to hear what those who know more than me have to say on this.

 

Why would you think the guys who lift weights will lose flexibility? That's a fallacy. If anything, weight training typically improves range of motion. A strong and fit body is also less prone to injury.

 

BTW, I'm fairly certain Phil hits the weights as well. It may not be as obvious due to genetic predisposition/body-type, but he's lifting, stretching, doing speed work, etc...

 

When did I say they would lose flexibility? I just guessed that their workout regimen would change as they age...

 

I also don't doubt that nearly every player on Tour is doing some kind of weight training.

[TollBros]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

[thevaporz]

^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.

[TollBros]

^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.

 

Actually yes I sort of am. Haha. Thanks for noticing. :p

[airjammer]

^Yeah, cuz you're an expert. The Tour is juicing the numbers, gtfo.

 

Actually yes I sort of am. Haha. Thanks for noticing. :p

 

I thought they were juicing the numbers as well but after watching the pebble beach coverage...he definitely is hitting farther. I’m not sure if it’s as much as they claim thou.

[dropkicked]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

It could actually be that Phil, may have started a Yoga regiment that is allowing him more flexibility and strength while in rotation. Strengthening small twitch fiber muscles along with added rotation and flexibility will allow for a smoother transition and increased speed.

Martial Arts and Yoga are actually opposite sides of the same coin.. Yin/Yang.

[bladehunter]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

 

Nah. I’ve followed him a long time. He’s always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he’s just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.

 

Besides. I don’t know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn’t made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I’d say he’s found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he’s able to use the speed he’s always had.

[dpb5031]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

 

Nah. I’ve followed him a long time. He’s always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he’s just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.

 

Besides. I don’t know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn’t made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I’d say he’s found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he’s able to use the speed he’s always had.

 

Exactly!^^^

 

He's definitely pounding it out there as long as anyone right now regardless of the accuracy of SS and BS numbers being stated in the broadcasts

[DON SVO]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

 

Nah. I've followed him a long time. He's always had 2 more gears. Just too wild to use them. I think he's just found a combo of swing and equipment that lets him go harder at it.

 

Besides. I don't know what chemical will give 10 mph alone anyway? Speed isn't made in the weight room. Not at the root. It has to be there to be enhanced. I'd say he's found better sequencing with the weighted speed trainer sticks and he's able to use the speed he's always had.

 

I mentioned in one of the other "how TF is Phil hitting it so far now?!" threads that I think it was simply a "perfect storm" if you will: he was averaging 120mph club speed as recently as 2010, and dropped noticeably a couple years later (which coincides with when he said the psoriatic arthritis started to really flare up). He's been in the gym, doing martial arts, stretching, eating better, and is on a medicinal regimen that seems to have helped reel in the psoriatic arthritis. I have no reason to believe that he couldn't be feeling a lot better after years of therapy and fitness and is therefore swinging freer, and tapping the 120 mark with regularity.

[vanillafunk616]

At his age he could qualify for TRT use and exemption. That's essentially like doctor supervised steroid use. The launch monitors being juiced for entertainment purposes is also a high probability.

[provx]

Aside from the speed training you also have to remember he has psoriatic arthritis and could be managing it better at this period of time.

 

You’ll notice he has been wearing short sleaves more often, meaning he isn’t broke out with symptoms.

 

In years past he routinely wore long sleeves even on hot days due to rashes from the psoriatic arthritis.

 

No arthritis flare up could be 5 mph swing speed easy.

[QMany]

I don't think the ProTracer numbers used for TV are very accurate. For example, I believe they showed JB at 187 MPH on 17 and then 170 MPH on 18. I would put more faith in the Trackman-recorded numbers used on the Tour's website.

[OnOff]

I don't think the ProTracer numbers used for TV are very accurate. For example, I believe they showed JB at 187 MPH on 17 and then 170 MPH on 18. I would put more faith in the Trackman-recorded numbers used on the Tour's website.

 

I agree, I said something similar earlier in the thread. I could see 187 from JB 10 years ago but he's not as crazy long (still long) as he used to be. I think he can still touch the low 180s though. The 170 number made sense, he hit some type of low punch cut type of shot, so probably took something off it.

[deadsolid...shank]

I don’t know about the numbers television is showing us, no idea. But didn’t he fly it on #10 at Riveria with a 3 wood. 285 yards (although we don’t know of that is accurate either).

[MadGolfer76]

The conspiracy buff in me would say that the TV numbers are juiced to make up for the occasional juiced head that mysteriously gets put into play by bigger names looking to make a "comeback."

 

But then I tell myself that is just crazy talk...

[DON SVO]

Just go check PGATour.com on the ball speed stats. Phil has been between 179-175 all season. He’s never been the king of high smash factor, so if he’s just absolutely 1.50 nutting it this season for a change he’s still high teens in club speed, probably hitting 120 regularly with his typical smash factor. Not tough to figure out when the recorded Trackman numbers are right there.

[wolfpack]

I am not trying to throw any bad light at anyone, however having RA is an open book for steroid prescription. My close friend has it and she is supplied all kinds of major heavy meds, that would flag any kind of USADA testing. Phil may be curing his malady while getting much stronger at the same time.

[airjammer]

I am not trying to throw any bad light at anyone, however having RA is an open book for steroid prescription. My close friend has it and she is supplied all kinds of major heavy meds, that would flag any kind of USADA testing. Phil may be curing his malady while getting much stronger at the same time.

 

I remember when Magic Johnson announced that he contracted Aids...everybody thought it was a death sentence. Hell, I think he looks better now than he did then. It’s amazing what people with half a billion dollars can do manage debilitating diseases.

[QMany]

I don't think the ProTracer numbers used for TV are very accurate. For example, I believe they showed JB at 187 MPH on 17 and then 170 MPH on 18. I would put more faith in the Trackman-recorded numbers used on the Tour's website.

 

coursekings: If you enjoy golf than chances are you love innovative technology like Top Tracer & Trackman. Both track the ball but one system is camera based while the other uses radar.

I believe that at this time Top Tracer has exclusive rights with the PGA Tour and their TV broadcast partners. So the ball speed, apex, curve and carry numbers seen on a telecast are all coming from Top Tracer. However, Trackman still provides data for The PGA Tour’s tracking portal ShotLink. It should also be mentioned that Trackman shares more parameters than Top Tracer. Such as club speed, spin rate, launch angle, smash factor, etc.

So I thought I’d compare some numbers from each system. Here we have Rory and DJ hitting off the 15th tee during the final round of the @wgcmexico. I’ve added some of the reported Trackman numbers for those specific shots.

I should say that ShotLink reported Rory’s drive as being 20 yards further than DJ’s (347 to to 327). That’s total distance, which immediately brings into question the real-time accuracy of Top Tracer carry numbers? Top Tracer had Rory carrying it 358 and DJ 341. While Trackman had Rory at 332 and DJ at 317. So with the support of ShotLink it seems clear that Trackman carry numbers seem more realistic.

There are also some noticeable differences in ball speed and apex or peak height for the shots. For Rory’s ball there was only a 4 foot discrepancy (126ft with the Tracer vs. 130 with Trackman. But with DJ an 11 foot discrepancy existed (131 with the Tracer and 142 with Trackman). Ball speeds were quite close in this particular case. DJ was within 1 MPH and Rory within 3 MPH.

 

It’s also interesting to note that according to Trackman both players were swinging between 121 & 122 MPH. Rory was 0.6 MPH faster. Both players launched it just over 12 degrees and had very high smash factors (over 1.49). The difference in carry and total distance can likely be explained by Rory’s slightly higher ball speed and launch and 550+ fewer RPM’s with the spin rate (2490 vs. 3049).

[Shilgy]

It makes me wonder if the tour is juicing the numbers for tv. Nobody picks up 10mph in ball speed ant 49 years old without chemical enhancement and I don't see that happening.

He's definitely juicing something! :cheesy: