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I’m giving up Blades... sort of...


tgoodspe1991

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I've had a couple of rounds this winter where I've been playing abroad so had some rentals on the way round rather than the trusty VR Pros, and I was genuinely interested to see the difference in my game. I had 2 rounds with AP3's and 3 with AP2's, all fitted with S300 shafts, so similar to my configuration at home, if not quite identical.

 

Wasn't a huge fan of the feel (or lack of), but could have coped with that if there were night and day performance differences between the two, but I can honestly say there weren't. AP3's traveled as far as my VR Pros, the AP2's were a club short, and for trying to control ball flight they were less than ideal - just wanted to go straight and high. A couple of times I wanted ot hit a fade round a tree, both times the ball carried straight, and punching out of trees required going up a few clubs on the VR Pros.

 

I wouldn't swap for all the tees in China, but fair play if you think it will help you enjoy the game more.

The Dee Three - Titleist TS4 9.5 deg, EvenFlow White 6.5 65g, A1 Setting

Henrik - Titleist 917 F3 15 deg, Rogue Max 75x, B2 Setting

The Walking Stick - Titleist 818 H2 19 deg, Rogue Max 85x, B2 Setting

The Interloper - TaylorMade P770 3 iron, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5inch +1 deg loft

The Blades - Nike VR Pro 4 - AW, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5 inch

The Sand Iron - TaylorMade MG2 TW-12 Grind, 56 degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Flopper - TaylorMade MG2 TW-11 Grind, 60 Degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Putter - Nike Method 003 from The Oven

 

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I don't like switching at the 4i either. But there's just no way I can get anywhere near the same kind of ball flight that I get with a hybrid. Maybe if I experimented enough with shaft options, but that can get expensive.

 

Perhaps the 7-series Srixons have a bit more "help" with the muscle/cavity to help get the ball up in a hurry than your i-blades. I'd be baggin the 3 as well however, I prefer having the driving iron 2 in that spot for added versatility at the top end.

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Balls deep-

 

 

No doubt that tech is moving into all parts of the iron game. But you can’t call a spring faced iron a players anything. If it’s adding ball speed it’s game improvement. It’s not a knock. As I said. Currently playing a set myself. But we have to be honest about what is - is.

 

I’ve played 2 versions of the ap2 712 and 716. They are GI . The long irons have more offset than many ping irons. The lofts are strong the face is welded on for a reason.

 

People call Mb players dilusional. But this argument to me is far more dilusional than that can ever be. The players cb market has shrunk. That’s the bottom line. Mainly because theyy don’t offer much over a modern mb. That doesn’t mean we can start calling the smaller GI irons “ players cb”. Ap2 doesn’t really even have a pronounced cavity. The name doesn’t fit.

 

Op may have an easier transition than I first thought. Originally I thought the Srixon iron was a forged face iron too.

Callaway epic max LS 9* GD-M9003 7x 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there’s a whole spectrum of irons. It’s not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there’s a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player’s cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn’t playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I’ve never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn’t saying “I’m going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!” No, I’m simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it’s time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player’s cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn’t total BS. It’s why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that’s a bit ironic, isn’t it?

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The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

I think the pros are doing this because they know the small advantage add up over time. Carrying a hazard on one slight mishit could be the difference in winning or losing. Or, saving a couple yards on distance/direction means you are putting from 10 feet closer, which has a lower expected number of shots. If you don't mishit the ball often, then I agree the amount of strokes saved per round is going to be very small. If you are just playing casually, you probably won't notice it.

 

In contrast, many people here seem to only think there are 100% flushed shots and toe mishits so bad that nothing can save you. I'm nowhere near the level of player that many here are, but I think the issue is that no one vividly remembers the slight mishit that is still on the green but an extra 5-10 feet away (vs. what it could be or is with a more forgiving club).

 

Honestly, I've never understood the "can't concentrate with anything but an MB," "I want the harsh feedback to improve," or "my best shots get worse with a CB," but I can't deny that these factors exist for some people.

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there’s a whole spectrum of irons. It’s not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there’s a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player’s cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn’t playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I’ve never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn’t saying “I’m going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!” No, I’m simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it’s time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player’s cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn’t total BS. It’s why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that’s a bit ironic, isn’t it?

 

First. I have to dispel that myth.

At my count today 13 of the top 25 in the world ranking plays an mb. Of course nobody is discounting that 2-3 iron driving irons abound. Hardly a majority in fact technically a minority playing a cb. But let’s say even split to be fair enough. And I didn’t count bubba who went mb and now back to s55.

 

 

And for the record. I hate all of the big clubs. 460cc driver. Mallet putters etc. lol. But I get that they offer things for sure and to compete we have to explore those things. Same with irons. I’m in that same path you are talking about.

 

I’m just trying to tell you to lower your expectations. And be careful of fitment. You can go backwards much easier than forwards. And like I said. You’re choice is much less GI so probably a non issue swing wise as long as the weight and sole suit you. Originally I thought you were going to some of these irons which have a higher vertical cog. You have to adjust to hit those vs an mb. Those irons are to counter act a steep swing that balloons the ball. And you’ll find it takes a steep move to play them welll. That wa my cautionary tale. That’s all. Didn’t mean to get into the “ what’s a player improvement iron “ debate.

 

 

Callaway epic max LS 9* GD-M9003 7x 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

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I don't like switching at the 4i either. But there's just no way I can get anywhere near the same kind of ball flight that I get with a hybrid. Maybe if I experimented enough with shaft options, but that can get expensive.

 

Perhaps the 7-series Srixons have a bit more "help" with the muscle/cavity to help get the ball up in a hurry than your i-blades. I'd be baggin the 3 as well however, I prefer having the driving iron 2 in that spot for added versatility at the top end.

 

 

The difference in MOI between the 7 series and 9 series in Srixon irons is very small. I would term it insignificant. Some years, it's even non existant.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
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Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.

 

For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.

 

That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?

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Titleist 915 F 15 deg / Diamana 70
Titleist TSi2 18 deg Hybrid / PX Hazardous Smoke Black RDX
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Word to the wise. Measure the swingweight and lie angles of your favorite mb. And only test an iron when you've added weight to the head to match that swingweight and adjusted for lie. Same or very very similar shaft helps too. Going whole hog and hitting a lighter head plus light shaft etc is a recipe to lose your swing. My opinion. For reference. My i500 pw measured E1 last week when I recordEd all specs.( 5/8 over with 130g shaft). Loads of lead tape. Most modern heads are a good bit lighter than an MB.

 

Explains well the issue I have with most modern clubs. I prefer more weight in the head. One has to be cautious with head weight as you mentioned. Taking weight out makes face close faster and can cause hooks. Too much weight and face is harder to square.

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If AP2 is GI, does that make AP1 SGI?

 

I think most people would put the AP2 in the Player’s category. Based on profile, blade length and offset - all of which are designed to fit the “player’s” eye

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Callaway BB Alpha 816 16*
Srixon Z H45 Hybrid 19* 
Srixon ZX Utility 23*
Srixon ZX5 Mk II 5-AW

Callaway Jaws Raw Black 54 & 58
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black
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Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.

 

For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.

 

That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?

The guy is a +3.1 index. He has an infrequent miss just like many pros. I assume you've fixed things so well with the MBs that you never miss now.

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Titleist CB's are great. Been playing them for a long time. Recently decided to switch to MB. I like knowing I will have nothing left to question except myself with the MB.

 

For me, I would rather fix my toe shots than play an iron that gets better results with toe shots. Hitting out the toe is not the clubs fault, it's mine.

 

That is the thing I feel that the player must decide. Do I want my club to fix the problem or do I want to fix the problem?

 

You’re assuming that if you hit a toe shot here and there then you do all of them. Lol. People understand they have a miss now and then and use equipment that somewhat allows for it. After years of playing golf I’m sure every person here playing MBs have it fixed by now.

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?

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Wilson FG100 4i-PW.

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?

 

 

Almost guaranteed it wasn’t because he was mishitting his irons.

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?

 

Regressing to the mean?

 

Are you actually you’re suggesting that their ball striking changes overnight because they play CBs? Or are you just being sarcastic?

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Titleist TS2 15* - D+ LTD 70X
Titleist TSi2 21* - Tensei White 80X

Srixon Z785 4i, Miura MC-501 5-PW - X100
SM7 50F, 54S, SM8 58M
Spider Tour
 

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

A tour player with CB's shoots a 64 first round. Then 2nd round he fires a 75...... why?

 

Good thing he didn't play blades or it would have been a 76 :-)

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I attest to only being comfortable with blades semi-permanently because the tech has moved into them. My model specifically - the legendary z945. Has v sole + tungsten in the long irons. Its a longer blade length and just an all time great iron.

 

If I was playing something inferior I would still be going back and forth to players CB like OP is

 

If you find something like the z945, truly play them till they wear out. Im going on year 3 on my set and sitting comfortably for 3+ more

 

Lastly, nearly everyone can benefit from help in the 4/5i




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Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.

 

I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.

 

I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?

 

Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.

Honestly when i practiced on a regular basis there was no concerns with the MP 18 blades. When i got lazy and reduced my practice time i started to find issues with consistent strikes. So this year i had to make a decision, either keep the blades or move to a players cavity back. I moved on from the MP's however i am also not sure where to look for my new set. The Apex Pro's and the AP2's are high on the list.

Titleist TSR2 10 deg with Ventus TR Blue 6

Titleist TSR2+ 14.5 deg 3 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Titleist TSR2  18 deg 5 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Wilson Staff CB 4-PW with DG mid 115 

Wedges ?? 

Scotty Cameron Champions choice Newport 2+ @ 34 inches

Pro V1 

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Just another comment from an older guy who is not as good as the OP so I am probably just talking.

As for the Srixon U, the look, feel, and performance of these things are something that I think the vast majority of golfers would appreciate. A little harder to work than say a blade or true players CB but a LOT harder to hit a bad shot with. I often see the phrase here saying something "is money"....these things are money.

I have decided that I can hit about anything from 7i through my wedges and I can certainly hit my U65 3i and 4i. That only leaves the 6i and 5i for me to have to give any thought to. After owning 8 sets of irons in the last 18 months, my final thoughts are with the right shaft I have not found anything I can't play in the 6i and 5i. I am working on grabbing a set of Z945 to test that one last time so we will see.

As far as preference, I think the OP will have issues only with (obviously good enough to play anything):

1. Something that looks too big (shovels or even semi-shovels can be tough with the touch shots if use to a small head).

2. Something that you can't feel where the ball strikes on the club (good players rely on this sometimes more than they think)

MOST IMPORTANT: I think the OP would hate something that will not give him the consistency in distance he is use to!!

 

I think a smaller CB would serve him well but only time will tell if it helps him meet his goals. Great choices:

Srixon Z7xx, Mizuno MP18 SC or MMC, Cobra MB/CB combo, Titleist CB (though to me was zero different from the MB).

Good luck and enjoy the quest!

Driver- Titleist TsR2 with Graphite Design Tour AD

4w - Titleist Tsi2 with Tensei Raw Blue shaft

19 Hy - Titleist 818 H1 with Atmos Tour Spec

23 Hy - Titleist 818 with Graphite Design Tour AD-DI shaft

5i-PW - Bridgestone J15 CB with Recoil F4 110 shafts

50,54,and 58 Wilson Staff wedges with SF shafts

Ping Prime Tyne 4 PSD

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I've had a couple of rounds this winter where I've been playing abroad so had some rentals on the way round rather than the trusty VR Pros, and I was genuinely interested to see the difference in my game. I had 2 rounds with AP3's and 3 with AP2's, all fitted with S300 shafts, so similar to my configuration at home, if not quite identical.

 

Wasn't a huge fan of the feel (or lack of), but could have coped with that if there were night and day performance differences between the two, but I can honestly say there weren't. AP3's traveled as far as my VR Pros, the AP2's were a club short, and for trying to control ball flight they were less than ideal - just wanted to go straight and high. A couple of times I wanted ot hit a fade round a tree, both times the ball carried straight, and punching out of trees required going up a few clubs on the VR Pros.

 

I wouldn't swap for all the tees in China, but fair play if you think it will help you enjoy the game more.

 

 

you captured why i have not been able to use CBs for any longer than a week. No feel..clumsy through the ball..but i also think it has a lot to do with what one starts using to learn the game .

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Cobra Ltd 5 Kaili 80 (sub :Cobra F6 Baffler 18.5 Kaili 80)
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I've had a couple of rounds this winter where I've been playing abroad so had some rentals on the way round rather than the trusty VR Pros, and I was genuinely interested to see the difference in my game. I had 2 rounds with AP3's and 3 with AP2's, all fitted with S300 shafts, so similar to my configuration at home, if not quite identical.

 

Wasn't a huge fan of the feel (or lack of), but could have coped with that if there were night and day performance differences between the two, but I can honestly say there weren't. AP3's traveled as far as my VR Pros, the AP2's were a club short, and for trying to control ball flight they were less than ideal - just wanted to go straight and high. A couple of times I wanted ot hit a fade round a tree, both times the ball carried straight, and punching out of trees required going up a few clubs on the VR Pros.

 

I wouldn't swap for all the tees in China, but fair play if you think it will help you enjoy the game more.

 

 

you captured why i have not been able to use CBs for any longer than a week. No feel..clumsy through the ball..but i also think it has a lot to do with what one starts using to learn the game .

 

 

Iron clubhead size has been one of my personal decision points, for lack of a better term. Similar to how some hate offset, or have issues with smaller clubheads, I have problems with larger clubheads. Always feel like I can't get them on the ball properly, I'll only be able to hit them thin. Was a large part of my adjustment to playing Eye2+, they looked enormous behind the ball. The ISI were an easier transition.

 

Wish I scored better with them, I wouldn't have to worry as much about rocks in the soil as I do with my various Ram Tour Grinds.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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If AP2 is GI, does that make AP1 SGI?

 

I think most people would put the AP2 in the Player's category. Based on profile, blade length and offset - all of which are designed to fit the "player's" eye

 

They're driving irons.

 

I used to have two of the 718 AP2s in the 3 and 4 iron with the light weight AMT S300 shafts and they were a poor man's driving iron.

Taylormade Stealth Plus Mitsu Kai'li White 70S
Taylormade SIM2 15  Tour AD DI 8S
Mizuno MP 20 3-PW ProjectX 6.0
Vokey SM7 54S and 60M
Cameron Newport 2 CT
Titleist ProV1x Left dash

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Many of us begin our shopping & comparisons for irons online (esp. wrx), some complete it.

 

With that, I wanted to give a shout out for recent advances by Mizuno & Taylormade in providing blade measures for their current lines other than the standard Loft/Lie & Offsets.

 

TM is giving us their top line lengths for the P & M series in mm; Mizuno does that plus top line & sole widths on the euro site with a blade compare table.

 

The more of this available from all OEMs plus archive models, the much easier these iron choices are helped at least visually in the apples-to-oranges.

BAG ONE:                                                                                                   BAG TWO:
D - Callaway Rogue ST Max D                                               - Cobra F9 Tour Length  

5 -  Ping G425 Max 5(16.5)                                                    3 -  TEE C721 Pro 3 HL(16.5)

H - Callaway Mav P (18) Titleist TS2 (21)                              H - TM SF 2.0 (18) & (21)

I -  Titleist T300 4                                                                   I -  Taylormade SIM Max 4      
I -  Titleist T100 5-P/MR KK TiNi 105                                     I -  Taylormade P760 5-P/Recoils 110 F4

W - Vokey SM8 52, Vokey SM6 58                                        W - Vokey SM8 52, Vokey SM6 58 
P - Bellum Winmore Midi  787                                                - Guerin TS Black 370

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Nothing wrong with CBs at all. Very little difference IMO. Just gotta find what you like in terms of size, offset, sole width, etc.

 

I do agree. Many players cavity back irons still look really great at address.

 

I mean, a lot of Pros make pleeenntyyy of money using CB irons or bigger. I figure why am I making it harder on myself?

 

Finding the right CB is going to be difficult. So much variation out there.

 

Might be beneficial to measure where you're at and where you think you can gain presumably those 2 things would be GIR and PROXIMITY with your iron play never the less I think it makes sense to do BEFORE you change for a one year CB experiment

 

Spin, traj control, variance etc all other wise we're just stabbing in the dark.

 

Perfect example is one year I played 90 rounds after the season was over I was able to check my stats and concluded that I still missed too many greens because I tried to divide my greens into quadrants vs thirds. Since then I have aimed at bigger targets and increased my GIR's

 

I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.

 

Measure twice cut once.

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I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.

 

 

And this is a great nuance that is often left out of these conversations. With mixed/combo sets being more the norm than not these days, it's not too uncommon to see a bag with 6-PW or 5-PW in blades, and the longer clubs are hollow-body driving irons or hybrids.

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I'm a single digit but far from a 3 and I can comfortably play almost any 6iron blade and on up so in a case like yours you may only be talking about 2-3 irons in CB vs irons you probably hit very well.

 

 

And this is a great nuance that is often left out of these conversations. With mixed/combo sets being more the norm than not these days, it's not too uncommon to see a bag with 6-PW or 5-PW in blades, and the longer clubs are hollow-body driving irons or hybrids.

 

no one said anything about hitting a blade 1 iron lol.

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Cobra Ltd 3 Kaili 80

Cobra Ltd 5 Kaili 80 (sub :Cobra F6 Baffler 18.5 Kaili 80)
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name='tgoodspe1991' timestamp='1550677755' post='18683502']

I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?[/b]

 

OK sure, but it we're really going to take this on don't we need to know what the difference between your game and the (tour) players you're comparing yourself to?

 

I absolutely saw that you're a +3 but tour players are what +5's? So even if those 2 things are true... Is is really the fall off of your high toe misses that are causing the discrepancy of 2 strokes in 1:4 rounds or whatever? I'm no longer the pope of slope wanna be I once was.

 

Without better #'s I think it makes sense to question that your mid iron misses are impacting your scores that much?

 

3 examples:

 

Typically elite level players separate themselves with their long games do they not?

 

Secondarily how does your game compare to tour level players on the GIR's that you do hit? Putting have you compared your short putting, lag putting

 

Tertiary how well do you chip around the greens? I once read that TW from within 10 yards was 90% up and down conversion rate. So even if he's an outlier, surly he was, what would tour normal be vs where you're at?

 

I'm the last one to say don't try to buy a better game or exercise every opp to enjoy your life more. But I'd like to think I'm among the 1st to ask are you buying something that will make a difference? Is this solution solving the problem you're trying to solve?

 

Thoughts anyone?

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name='tgoodspe1991' timestamp='1550677755' post='18683502']

I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?[/b]

 

OK sure, but it we're really going to take this on don't we need to know what the difference between your game and the (tour) players you're comparing yourself to?

 

I absolutely saw that you're a +3 but tour players are what +5's? So even if those 2 things are true... Is is really the fall off of your high toe misses that are causing the discrepancy of 2 strokes in 1:4 rounds or whatever? I'm no longer the pope of slope wanna be I once was.

 

Without better #'s I think it makes sense to question that your mid iron misses are impacting your scores that much?

 

3 examples:

 

Typically elite level players separate themselves with their long games do they not?

 

Secondarily how does your game compare to tour level players on the GIR's that you do hit? Putting have you compared your short putting, lag putting

 

Tertiary how well do you chip around the greens? I once read that TW from within 10 yards was 90% up and down conversion rate. So even if he's an outlier, surly he was, what would tour normal be vs where you're at?

 

I'm the last one to say don't try to buy a better game or exercise every opp to enjoy your life more. But I'd like to think I'm among the 1st to ask are you buying something that will make a difference? Is this solution solving the problem you're trying to solve?

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

I'd like to see a video of his swing

 

Taylormade Stealth Plus Mitsu Kai'li White 70S
Taylormade SIM2 15  Tour AD DI 8S
Mizuno MP 20 3-PW ProjectX 6.0
Vokey SM7 54S and 60M
Cameron Newport 2 CT
Titleist ProV1x Left dash

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I think some people are confusing the nature of this thread. Also, there's a whole spectrum of irons. It's not so black and white that if I am not playing Blades then I am going all the way to an SGI iron.

 

My main point of this thread was that there's a lot of smart design going into the modern CB and player's cavity irons. Think a range from Titleist CB-AP2, Z785, Apex Pro, etc..

 

I know my miss, and I think a true muscleback blade isn't playing into that miss. There are irons that have some tungsten, weight distribution, etc etc that I've never really given a full go to see if it will benefit my game. I usually do a split set and then go right back to Blades. So my experiment isn't saying "I'm going to drop 5 strokes by running to G410!" No, I'm simply saying that given the infrequent but present miss that I have, I think it's time to hang up my hat on true musclebacks and give a full season or more of player's cavity irons a go. Just to see what, if anything, happens.

 

The list of Tour players that use cavity back irons to game improvement irons is enormous compared to those that stick with true Blades. That ratio is especially true if you look at those in the Top 10, T25, etc.

 

Also, forgiveness isn't total BS. It's why we have moved to 460cc drivers, mallet putters, etc. If you use a large driver or a mallet putter but then say forgiving irons are BS, I think that's a bit ironic, isn't it?

 

Go for it. I think you'll find that overall weight and visual setup are far more important. But you'll never know until you try.

 

Putting is totally different than selecting irons, no irony to be found playing blades and putting with a mallet.

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