Ridiculous Pace of Play Idea (tour only)

Jc0Jc0 ChicagoMembers Posts: 1,888 ✭✭
So I was thinking of an idea for speeding up play (tour only) and the idea I came up with was similar to a chess clock. In chess you get a certain allocation of time to make all your moves. For golf you would have an outside observer start your clock once you are within a certain range of your ball (no stalling) and goes until the shot is hit. The time deducts over the course of the round and at the end if went over your allocated time there would be a stroke penalty. For example a player would get 100 minutes to hit all their shots and each minute over is one stroke. This way a player is aware of how long they are taking but also has the ability to try to save time for critical points in the round. It would be clear to the player how much time they have and would measure pace of play individually rather than as a group. This also could be viewed by the TV audience and could bring secondary drama.



This would definitely take tweaking such as if a player is playing bad they will need more time for more strokes and adjustments for ball searches, penalties, and other items. But this way the player is aware of their allotted time up front and has no excuse for how much time they take at the end of the round and it takes personal discretion of a rules official out of the decision.
«13

Comments

  • PotatoheadPotatohead Members Posts: 2,920 ✭✭
    Throw in a couple thirty second time outs and I think it’s a good idea. Curling does it too.
  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 3,054 ✭✭
    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals
  • GautamaGautama Members Posts: 770 ✭✭
    I've thought of the chess clock thing too...if they really think pace of play on tour is hurting viewership, which would be the only reason to care if you think about it, that would be their answer.
    "I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"

    -Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom
  • BrandonDunesBrandonDunes Members Posts: 341 ✭✭
    The European Tour did an event with a shot clock. I don't think the PGA would do something like it. Brooks would approve of the idea, Bryson would be freaking out mentally.



    Driver - Callaway Epic SZ 10.5º
    3W - Taylor Made Jetspeed HL º17
    H - Callaway Xhot Pro 23º
    Irons - Mizuno JPX919 Hotmetal 5-PW
    GW - Callaway MD3 (S-48º)
    SW - Callaway MD3 (S-52º)
    LW - Callaway MD3 (W-58º)
    Putter - Scotty Cameron
  • clichecliche Members Posts: 758 ✭✭
    let them use lasers for getting their distance faster (or to shoot other peoples). Ban greenreading books.
  • golfing_penguingolfing_penguin Members Posts: 399 ✭✭
    Potatohead wrote:


    Throw in a couple thirty second time outs and I think it's a good idea. Curling does it too.




    Good idea that. Throw in 15 minutes total of time-out for looking for their ball/hard decisions and that'd be fun to watch
  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 Countdown to The Masters! ClubWRX Posts: 17,907 ClubWRX
    Adding “secondary drama” would seem to be a weak reason to add or even show some kind of running shot clock during a professional golf tournament.



    Enforce the rules they have or don’t. Doesn’t really matter that much how long they take, cameras go looking for someone ready to hit anyway.
  • turtlekcturtlekc 1995 MN PGA WisconsinClubWRX Posts: 12,779 ClubWRX
    Hawkeye77 wrote:


    Adding "secondary drama" would seem to be a weak reason to add or even show some kind of running shot clock during a professional golf tournament.



    Enforce the rules they have or don't. Doesn't really matter that much how long they take, cameras go looking for someone ready to hit anyway.




    image/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' /> image/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' /> image/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />
    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • King_SlenderKing_Slender Members Posts: 1,474 ✭✭
    I've had this idea in the past, but I can honestly say I've never watched a tournament on TV and thought "this is taking way too long."



    There was a tourney a few years ago where I think Padraig was in the last group, getting vilified for slow play, and he putted out literally 5 minutes before the end of the scheduled broadcast. His point was, if we're finishing at the end of the broadcast, what's the problem?
  • TheGeekGolferTheGeekGolfer Just beat the Huskies! Go Cougs! Members Posts: 1,439 ✭✭
    I've had this idea in the past, but I can honestly say I've never watched a tournament on TV and thought "this is taking way too long."



    There was a tourney a few years ago where I think Padraig was in the last group, getting vilified for slow play, and he putted out literally 5 minutes before the end of the scheduled broadcast. His point was, if we're finishing at the end of the broadcast, what's the problem?


    That may have been the case for that tournament. I swear, every tournament I've watched in the last year has gone over. Then they keep moving the final holes to golf channel and [email protected]
  • bscinstnctbscinstnct Members Posts: 26,670 ✭✭
    Do this



    When a player keeps playing slow, they show a split screen of the player on one side



    And this on the other ; )







  • ORTORT Members Posts: 150 ✭✭
    TheLarch wrote:
    The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.




    Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,489 ✭✭


    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems
    Cobra F8+ 9.5 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Epic Subzero 14* w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Apex 20h w/Diamana D+ 95
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW w/S300
    Callaway MD Forged 52,56 w/S300
    Callaway MD 2.0 60 PM grind w/s300
    Odyssey O-works Red Tank #7
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Posts: 14,685 ClubWRX
    ORT wrote:

    TheLarch wrote:
    The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.




    Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.




    Just for Black Friday sales. That’s the only time someone might go somewhere else if they’re tired of waiting. Otherwise they know people aren’t going anywhere else.
    Titleist 910 8.5
    Titleist 910 15*
    Titleist 910H 17*
    2-6 Mizuno MP-60, 7-PW MP-67
    SC GoLo
    Vokey SM5 52,58,62
  • Joker91Joker91 Westminster, COMembers Posts: 571 ✭✭
    Or leave it alone cause it's not a big deal
  • Anchor44Anchor44 Members Posts: 902 ✭✭
    Jc0 wrote:


    So I was thinking of an idea for speeding up play (tour only) and the idea I came up with was similar to a chess clock. In chess you get a certain allocation of time to make all your moves. For golf you would have an outside observer start your clock once you are within a certain range of your ball (no stalling) and goes until the shot is hit. The time deducts over the course of the round and at the end if went over your allocated time there would be a stroke penalty. For example a player would get 100 minutes to hit all their shots and each minute over is one stroke. This way a player is aware of how long they are taking but also has the ability to try to save time for critical points in the round. It would be clear to the player how much time they have and would measure pace of play individually rather than as a group. This also could be viewed by the TV audience and could bring secondary drama.



    This would definitely take tweaking such as if a player is playing bad they will need more time for more strokes and adjustments for ball searches, penalties, and other items. But this way the player is aware of their allotted time up front and has no excuse for how much time they take at the end of the round and it takes personal discretion of a rules official out of the decision.


    A good idea that will never happen. The USGA, PGA AND R&A are never going to really enforce sanctions against slow play. It's been about 25 years since they actually fined someone for slow play.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,243 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 12:17pm #18

    ORT wrote:

    TheLarch wrote:
    The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.




    Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.




    Just for Black Friday sales. That’s the only time someone might go somewhere else if they’re tired of waiting. Otherwise they know people aren’t going anywhere else.




    The last time I had to wait for a Walmart cashier was about 7 years ago. 8-10 people in line for each of just 3 Cahsiers.



    I swore that day I’d never do it again and I haven’t. I go only after 10:00 pm at night and I use self checkout for just 2 things:



    1. 5 quart jugs of 0-40 mobile one. $25.47



    2. “On the border” tortilla chips. Simply the greatest tortilla chips you will ever eat. And I’m dead serious. If you like tortilla chips you must try them. Your life will change.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • SocratesSocrates How can it be so *&#% hard to make a shoulder turn? WinnipegClubWRX Posts: 9,316 ClubWRX




    2. “On the border” tortilla chips. Simply the greatest tortilla chips you will ever eat. And I’m dead serious. If you like tortilla chips you must try them. Your life will change.


    LOL. You must be like Freddie. “I like to go home and do nothing. And I’m really good at it.”
    Ping G400 9º TFC 419 Stiff at 45"
    Cobra F8 5-6 Fwy at 18.5° Stiff
    Ping i20 3 Hyb 707H Stiff
    X2 Hot 4_-PW Recoil 660 F3 +1/2"
    Ping Forged 52°, ES 56º and ES 60º
    Ping Sigma2 Valor at 34.5"
    MCC Align Midsize
    Moving to the bench:
    Jazz Bear Cat 3 wd Aerotech Stiff
    Vokey SM2 52º cc
    Scotty X7M Dual 38"
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX Posts: 14,685 ClubWRX


    ORT wrote:

    TheLarch wrote:
    The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.




    Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.




    Just for Black Friday sales. That’s the only time someone might go somewhere else if they’re tired of waiting. Otherwise they know people aren’t going anywhere else.




    The last time I had to wait for a Walmart cashier was about 7 years ago. 8-10 people in line for each of just 3 Cahsiers.



    I swore that day I’d never do it again and I haven’t. I go only after 10:00 pm at night and I use self checkout for just 2 things:



    1. 5 gallon jugs of 0-40 mobile one. $25.47



    2. “On the border” tortilla chips. Simply the greatest tortilla chips you will ever eat. And I’m dead serious. If you like tortilla chips you must try them. Your life will change.




    You sir are of stronger will than us. Each time we go somewhere else (after we’ve sworn we’re done at Walmart) and the bill is substantially higher, back we go. ��
    Titleist 910 8.5
    Titleist 910 15*
    Titleist 910H 17*
    2-6 Mizuno MP-60, 7-PW MP-67
    SC GoLo
    Vokey SM5 52,58,62
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,243 ✭✭
    Socrates wrote:





    2. “On the border” tortilla chips. Simply the greatest tortilla chips you will ever eat. And I’m dead serious. If you like tortilla chips you must try them. Your life will change.


    LOL. You must be like Freddie. “I like to go home and do nothing. And I’m really good at it.”




    Freddie is my long lost spirit brother.



    And I’m deadly serious about the chips. I grew up in So. Cal. and I am a tortilla chip aficionado. “On the border” chips are a religious experience.



    Unfortunately they will ruin you for life because a standard Tostitos will forever be a giant disappointment.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 3,054 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 1:07pm #22
    MtlJeff wrote:



    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems




    Yeah and sometimes they even go over their time slot when there's a Playoff or a weather delay. I don't know the details of how that works out financially, but I'm sure it's good for the Tour: that bonus half hour or hour covering a Playoff.



    Imagine if they did institute some rules and got rounds down to 4 hours. Would it really help the viewing experience that much? I'm not sure. But it would seriously cost them in time available for commercials.



    They would also have to try to have the marquee players' rounds always coincide with the TV time slot, which would probably be impossible. Otherwise we'd see, e.g. less holes/shots from Tiger unless he is in or near the lead. Because he or others would finish their rounds just 1 hour into weekend coverage. I honestly think slower rounds helps the broadcast in this sense.
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,243 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 1:56pm #23
    Why is everyone bringing up TV? It’s totally irrelevant to TV.



    If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.



    If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.



    The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.
    9.5* Cobra LTD, Old school Grafalloy Blue, 43.5"
    14* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X 42"
    16* Cally 815 alpha fuji 665 X, 41.5" (set to 17*)
    19* Titleist 816 H2 fuji 8.8X TS 40.0"
    4-7 2016 Hogan PTx, KBS Tour V, 120X.  
    Ping i210 8 & 9 Proto 125 F5 hardstepped 1x.
    Ping glide 2 46-12, 50-12, 54-14 (at 55) stealth, Vokey SM6 60M (61). Wedges Recoil Proto 125 F5
    33.5" Ghost spider slant neck.
    Srixon Z-star XV
    Jones Trouper Bag
  • MtlJeffMtlJeff MontrealMembers Posts: 28,489 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 2:01pm #24


    Why is everyone bringing up TV? It’s totally irrelevant to TV.



    If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.



    If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.



    The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.




    But they don't really gain anything tangible by doing that. There's no reason to do it for the viewer to see 1-2 extra holes of the leaders. They can't monetize that very much more than already is happening. The tour is a business motivated by money, how does pace of play make them more money?



    If there's a way faster play makes the tour more money they should definitely consider it but I can't really think of one
    Cobra F8+ 9.5 w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Epic Subzero 14* w/Matrix Black Tie 80
    Callaway Apex 20h w/Diamana D+ 95
    Callaway 2016 Apex Pro 4-PW w/S300
    Callaway MD Forged 52,56 w/S300
    Callaway MD 2.0 60 PM grind w/s300
    Odyssey O-works Red Tank #7
  • Joker91Joker91 Westminster, COMembers Posts: 571 ✭✭


    Why is everyone bringing up TV? It's totally irrelevant to TV.



    If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.



    If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.



    The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.




    If it wasn't televised, no one would care. The only reason people complain is because networks show players looking at a yardage book or reading a green for 30 seconds before their shot/putt. If they only showed the 5 seconds leading up to a swing or a putt, the actual swing/putt and then moved onto the next guy then no one would even know unless you where there in person.



    Also La Flavorita > On the Border
  • straightshot7straightshot7 Members Posts: 3,054 ✭✭
    edited Mar 2, 2019 2:55pm #26


    Why is everyone bringing up TV? It's totally irrelevant to TV.



    If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.



    If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.



    The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.




    Totally irrelevant?



    The normal TV slot on the big network (NBC, CBS) on Saturday/Sunday is 4 hours, right?



    If you cut the rounds to 4 hours, you only have around 4 hours of golf from the leaders and marquee players to work with (put into the TV slot).



    Now, factor in Golf Channel and streaming services that go outside of the main 4 hour network slot.



    Golf Channel can just kiss their ~2 hours of live weekend golf coverage goodbye (like what's airing right now)? I'm sure they will be happy about that : )



    Having more total hours of golf to work with means they can spread it across more networks and have more material to work with. It's like having 10 episodes of a popular TV show vs. 7 episodes. 10 episodes will always make more money assuming a similar amount of viewers.



    Not to mention Major Championships where the big networks extend the coverage from 4 hours to 5-8. These are the biggest money makers of the year for everyone, and they will not be excited about shrinking the rounds/commercial opportunities.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • buckeye440buckeye440 Members Posts: 276 ✭✭
    I think a way to cut down on time is to make players finish out once they play on the green. Nothing worse than watching some guy mark from 2 ft and then his partner plays. Also, I do not get how these guys wait for the other guy to hit, then get yardage and club, then practice swings, and finally hit. Once one guy plays, then next should be hitting his shot within 30 seconds. I get that sometimes this can not be done, but most of the time it can easily be done. Half the time, my friends and I hit while the others' ball is still in the air.
  • billh17billh17 just happy to play Members Posts: 2,874 ✭✭
    Any extra time they gained would be used by talking heads ,or interviewing the CEO of the sponsor , or show McCord doing a fairway

    walking interview, or just show us a few more pre-recorded putts with the announcers acting like they are live. I don't think

    the Tour has any incentive at all to shorten the times. There are way too many folks who simply have no desire to play a 3 hour round,let

    alone one even shorter ! And watching the pros play 5 hour rounds isn't bothering the multitudes .
    Certified Orginal Member#2
    Outlaw Golf Association
    To Heck with the USGA
  • RobertBaronRobertBaron Members Posts: 806 ✭✭
    MtlJeff wrote:



    I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.



    Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals




    I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.



    Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems




    I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn’t want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they’re losing money on that as well.



    In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they’re just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans’ sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.
  • CAT GOLFERCAT GOLFER Members Posts: 932 ✭✭
    Like the idea, but like many others have stated, there is no real motivation.



    That being said, What I would like to see is just collect the data and mail the fines at the end of the season. We all know they have the data, just log it, and at the end of the season mail each player their fine for the year. Then it doesn’t become drama, or some artificial challenge, it’s just a fine and they are actually enforcing slow play. I bet a couple thousand doesn’t change behavior, but tens or hundreds might.
Sign In or Register to comment.