Srixon Cleveland one company

[jonflesh]

The launcher cbx are awesome irons. They are smaller in person than I thought they would be and have a progressive head shape.

[andrieddle]

I hope they keep it separate, just cooler

[kiw1982]

Many ppl don't even know Hyundai and Kia is the same company now.

 

They are selling exact same format cars with different shape and branding.

 

And it works.

[nyrican52884]

Many ppl don't even know Hyundai and Kia is the same company now.

 

They are selling exact same format cars with different shape and branding.

 

And it works.

I was thinking the same thing, car manufacturers so thus all the time. Lexus is a fancy Toyota with added features. Acura is even more like a Honda than Lexus is to Toyota. Audi/VW, Cadillac/Chevy, Lincoln/Ford, on and on.

 

[MtlJeff]

Many ppl don't even know Hyundai and Kia is the same company now.

 

They are selling exact same format cars with different shape and branding.

 

And it works.

I was thinking the same thing, car manufacturers so thus all the time. Lexus is a fancy Toyota with added features. Acura is even more like a Honda than Lexus is to Toyota. Audi/VW, Cadillac/Chevy, Lincoln/Ford, on and on.

 

I believe Hyundai is a minority owner of Kia.

 

The Toyota/Lexus comparison is a bit closer IMO. Though as I mentioned on page 1 the strange thing is that Cleveland makes the tour wedges but are "budget" in everything else. So it's not consistent with the branding. Cleveland has a great name in wedges but over time my guess is they change the tour wedges to the srixon name. Maybe in like 7-10 years

 

Maybe the closest car example I can think of is Nissan/infinity. Because Nissan makes the GTR which is I believe more expensive and has more cache than any infiniti, even though Infiniti is the marquee brand

 

There was a lot of talk that Taylormade was going to run Adams separately, in fact they stated as much publically, than speculation that Adams would just keep the hybrids because that was their specialty. In the end the company folded in. I don't necessarily see that happening here but I can't imagine in 10 years srixon isn't making the " tour" wedges

[chris975d]

Many ppl don't even know Hyundai and Kia is the same company now.

 

They are selling exact same format cars with different shape and branding.

 

And it works.

I was thinking the same thing, car manufacturers so thus all the time. Lexus is a fancy Toyota with added features. Acura is even more like a Honda than Lexus is to Toyota. Audi/VW, Cadillac/Chevy, Lincoln/Ford, on and on.

 

I believe Hyundai is a minority owner of Kia.

 

The Toyota/Lexus comparison is a bit closer IMO. Though as I mentioned on page 1 the strange thing is that Cleveland makes the tour wedges but are "budget" in everything else. So it's not consistent with the branding. Cleveland has a great name in wedges but over time my guess is they change the tour wedges to the srixon name. Maybe in like 7-10 years

 

Maybe the closest car example I can think of is Nissan/infinity. Because Nissan makes the GTR which is I believe more expensive and has more cache than any infiniti, even though Infiniti is the marquee brand

 

There was a lot of talk that Taylormade was going to run Adams separately, in fact they stated as much publically, than speculation that Adams would just keep the hybrids because that was their specialty. In the end the company folded in. I don't necessarily see that happening here but I can't imagine in 10 years srixon isn't making the " tour" wedges

 

 

I've discussed this exact thing with people within the company (my own rep and beyond), and I really think they will keep the wedges as Cleveland. They really like the heritage and history the Cleveland name has. I have mentioned (several times) that the image (that they themselves knowingly portray) of Cleveland in everything else outside of wedges does to some degree lower the image of the wedges. I also mentioned several times that they have positioned Srixon as the premium brand of the company (XXIO being a niche product, and I'm not considering them in this) and that the wedges really should have been "Srixon by Cleveland" or "Cleveland by Srixon", to link the Srixon name to the wedges and still be able to play off of the Cleveland heritage.

[IamMarkMac]

I completely understand why FJ and titlesit are separate or Callaway and ogio as someone may have a club contract but this way can still wear FJ apparel.

 

I also understand putters as again people may sign a 13 club contract and by playing a putter without a big club branding isn't as bad as a full ping bag with a Callaway putter.

 

I'm just stumped on the Cleveland srixon deal as some say Cleveland are budget but why can't srixon just have a broader range of products including starter packs like the Cleveland.

 

In Aus right now a launcher driver is $399 whilst a srixon z585 is $499

 

Why not just have a z385 for 399, a z585 for 499 and a z785 for 579.

 

I understand the issues with having consumers try something new and the transition would be hard but imagine every cleaveland and srixon club, bag, product out there having the one label it would have the affect of there being so much more and so much more popular i feel.

 

Mainly because a premium brand, which is where Srixon is positioning, shouldn't dip into other price categories without a distinct brand/value change. Your example is great: a Srixon z385 will eat into z585 sales much more readily than a Cleveland Launcher will because you'll get the Srixon brand at a cheaper price.

[ChipNRun]

The Toyota/Lexus comparison is a bit closer IMO. Though as I mentioned on page 1 the strange thing is that Cleveland makes the tour wedges but are "budget" in everything else. So it's not consistent with the branding. Cleveland has a great name in wedges but over time my guess is they change the tour wedges to the srixon name. Maybe in like 7-10 years...

 

There was a lot of talk that Taylormade was going to run Adams separately, in fact they stated as much publically, than speculation that Adams would just keep the hybrids because that was their specialty. In the end the company folded in. I don't necessarily see that happening here but I can't imagine in 10 years srixon isn't making the " tour" wedges

 

You bring up several good points. As for golf clubs, lots of shake-ups and shake-ins (??, term for return of Tommy Armour).

 

I would suggest that Cleveland is not budget in its new club offerings. I would suggest it's entering the niche left behind when Adams folded: Decent clubs for recreational golfers. I'll stick to irons so this doesn't run too long.

 

For irons, the Cleveland Launcher HB and Launcher CBX both cost $900 for 4i-PW. And, an area clubfitter noted that some of his customers came in for either TM or Callaway fittings and ended up buying the Launcher CBX instead.

 

And then we have the reemergence of Tommy Armour golf, the company famous from 1988 until the early 2000s for the 845 and Silver Scot irons. TA got handed off a couple of times, and then ended up a house brand for Sports Authority. When SA went under in 2016, Dick's picked up the TA line.

 

In 2018, the TA1 line of clubs emerged, including a $300 driver and a hybrid-irons-PW mix for $699 (now severely discounted). For this year, TA went Atomic, literally. The $399 Atomic driver, joined by FWs and hybrids; all these long clubs have variations on the Project X Even Flow shafts.

 

TA’s strong-lofted irons include the Atomic, with a 21.5* 5i and a 41* PW, and the Atomic Max with a with a 22* 5i and a 42* PW. Both models cost $799 each for 4-PW with TT XP85 as stock shaft.

 

All the Atomic clubs have online video clips touting their cupface technology and improvements which other clubs supposedly lack.

 

So if we focus on irons, where do we put the Cleveland Launchers and TA Atomics?

 

Looking at irons, the two Launcher models come in about the same price as the TM M5 and M6 irons, and the Callaway Rogue family irons. The Atomics (although TA is store brand) match the M3 and M4 irons for price.

 

So, MtlJeff and others, what niche do you see Cleveland and TA in golf club market? Can they hold the line as midprice competitors of TM, Callaway, Ping and Mizuno?

_______________________

Note to Rkelso: In 2015, Srixon came out with its Z355 (GI) and (SGI) Z155 irons. This was a shortlived bid to reach the full spectrum of golfers. Not sure what happened with the Z155 - I never saw any in person - but the Z355 survived just three years before it disappeared. I had hit both the Z355 and the Z545, and the Z355 just didn't fit in the Z family. Z355 had no feel and looked strange at address.

[ZBigStick]

It's definitely one of the weirdest multi-brand strategies i can think of. I understand the Callaway position of using Odyssey as a strictly "putter" brand for example. Or what Titleist does with Footjoy and Cameron being very similar...

 

This is strange because Cleveland is 2 things that dont jive....they are a tour caliber wedge-maker, but are basically a "value" brand for everything else.

 

I can't imagine this continuing for too much longer. Would imagine they do a re-branding of some sort next few years

 

They kinda jumped the shark and should’ve rebranded years ago fantastic products, strangled distribution recognition and market share.

[Sir edward of putternut]

Yeah Cleveland clubs have the perception in America as being a budget brand. Perception is hard to break. A company like Wilson would do well to use this model imo

Budget brand? If you said niche brand known mostly for wedges it would be easy to agree. They have never been a budget brand as I recall.

I agree completely. Ive never heard them labeled as a budget brand. In fact, their precision endo forged cb/mbs are the best feeling clubs ive ever hit and ive hit a ton(play mp-5). I feel im steadily becoming the Bobcat of the precision forged cb/mb

 

[LaymanM]

Yeah Cleveland clubs have the perception in America as being a budget brand. Perception is hard to break. A company like Wilson would do well to use this model imo

Budget brand? If you said niche brand known mostly for wedges it would be easy to agree. They have never been a budget brand as I recall.

I agree completely. Ive never heard them labeled as a budget brand. In fact, their precision endo forged cb/mbs are the best feeling clubs ive ever hit and ive hit a ton(play mp-5). I feel im steadily becoming the Bobcat of the precision forged cb/mb

 

Always liked the looks of 588 CB/MB. Never got my hands on a set though. Pretty irons