the tour needs to fix the caddie pay issue

[cdnglf]

Kuchar and Ortiz have provided different accounts of what "the deal" was. By Ortiz's account, the bonus was unspecified (ie left to Kuchar's discretion). By Kuchar's account, it was underspecified as it omitted compensation for a win. Saying "a win is just a top ten" is revisionist nonsense - every single other discussion of caddie compensation I've ever seen specifically states what a win is worth.

 

Why was this omitted? Who knows. Kuchar hadn't won in four years, so perhaps his hopes weren't high and he didn't specify. Ortiz, being by far the junior partner, may have felt out of place or not had the language skills to express himself or just assumed Kuchar would take care of him in this unlikely event (oops). Maybe there was an intermediary who dropped the ball.

 

In any event there was a gap, which had an easy fix - Kuchar, recognizing that he was by far the more powerful party (and anticipating the potential fallout for cheaping out), could have easily solved the problem by saying "hey, I know we didn't really address this up front but here's $50K. Thank you for helping me to my first win in four years". Instead, he paid Ortiz 3.8% of what a regular caddie would have earned in the same situation. 3.8%! One can reasonably argue that Ortiz didn't do the full work of PGA Tour caddie, but there is no reasonable argument that he only did 3.8% of the work.

 

Kuchar then doubled down with his slippery "it wasn't $3k and it wasn't 10%" comment, and tripled down with that monumentally stupid interview at Rivieria. Finally, realizing he had lost badly in the court of public opinion (and had few if any public supporters among his fellow players), he apologized.

 

The KJW's deflection tactics here are hilarious - this is not Gillis's fault, or Ortiz's fault, or the "SJW mob", or the Illuminati. It is all on Kuchar. He performs for the public. He is paid a public sum of money. This issue becoming public goes with the territory. As Arnie once told Tiger: if you don't like it, don't take the money.

 

How is it not Gillis fault? Kuch and Tucan settles their deal and went about their way, Gillis stuck his nose in the business of a player and his employee for the week to tell him in gillis' opinion was shirt changed. Then Gillis put the whole thing on blast which then brought in the social media mob and the various media outlets that all pretty much of with rich golfer pays .38% to caddie, rich golfer is ok with $3000/5000 payment.

 

This then put pressure on Tucan to get involved and tell some what questionable account of the deal and eventually pressure for Kuchar to cave and pay what everyone else thought was fair.

 

Blaming Gillis is shooting the messenger.

 

Unless Tucan went to Gillis which from what I read wasn't the case then Gillis isn't the messenger he's the instigator.

 

No Kuchar is the instigator. No cheapskate, no story.

[cdnglf]

Kuchar and Ortiz have provided different accounts of what "the deal" was. By Ortiz's account, the bonus was unspecified (ie left to Kuchar's discretion). By Kuchar's account, it was underspecified as it omitted compensation for a win. Saying "a win is just a top ten" is revisionist nonsense - every single other discussion of caddie compensation I've ever seen specifically states what a win is worth.

 

Why was this omitted? Who knows. Kuchar hadn't won in four years, so perhaps his hopes weren't high and he didn't specify. Ortiz, being by far the junior partner, may have felt out of place or not had the language skills to express himself or just assumed Kuchar would take care of him in this unlikely event (oops). Maybe there was an intermediary who dropped the ball.

 

In any event there was a gap, which had an easy fix - Kuchar, recognizing that he was by far the more powerful party (and anticipating the potential fallout for cheaping out), could have easily solved the problem by saying "hey, I know we didn't really address this up front but here's $50K. Thank you for helping me to my first win in four years". Instead, he paid Ortiz 3.8% of what a regular caddie would have earned in the same situation. 3.8%! One can reasonably argue that Ortiz didn't do the full work of PGA Tour caddie, but there is no reasonable argument that he only did 3.8% of the work.

 

Kuchar then doubled down with his slippery "it wasn't $3k and it wasn't 10%" comment, and tripled down with that monumentally stupid interview at Rivieria. Finally, realizing he had lost badly in the court of public opinion (and had few if any public supporters among his fellow players), he apologized.

 

The KJW's deflection tactics here are hilarious - this is not Gillis's fault, or Ortiz's fault, or the "SJW mob", or the Illuminati. It is all on Kuchar. He performs for the public. He is paid a public sum of money. This issue becoming public goes with the territory. As Arnie once told Tiger: if you don't like it, don't take the money.

 

Oh sweet irony.Does this apply to Ortiz?

 

[marmooskapaul]

We need to abolish tips...on everything!!! There is no need to tip. Set the given price..pay it..and go on your way...I'm sick of all the tipping. No one likes a grey area..set the price/wage...pay the price/wage.

 

Who is more motivated to give great service, a server at a nice restaurant or the person working at the DMV?

 

I've had great experience with the IBMV. Take a number wait less than 10 minutes,,have a professional handle your transaction..pay my fees and out the door. No tip!!

Waiter hasn't even got me a seat yet...lol.

[Forged4ever]

Having spoken to two Tour caddies over the past 4 days, one the PGA & the other the Web.com, they’re both fine with the current pay scale on both Tours. So all is good Gents, no need to get yourselves all in a lather?

 

Regarding Kuch and the Tuchster, well, you can find my ramblings in the other threads however all’s well in the Kuch household and though I’m takin a flyer here, El Tuchy is happy down Mehico way?

 

Regarding Gillis, I’m glad that he did what he did, I would’ve done the same thing, and I’m pretty sure that Gilly is like me in that he doesn’t give a flyin **** what anyone else thinks, haha

 

Good night Gents

 

Sweet Dreams ??

 

Cheers?

RP

[Dpavs]

I know this is a very polarizing topic ladies and gents but haven't we moved from from nausea to ad nauseam regarding each others comments at the opposite ends of this discussion?

I'm just skeptical that further discussion will benefit anyone at this point.

[lowheel]

Kuchar and Ortiz have provided different accounts of what "the deal" was. By Ortiz's account, the bonus was unspecified (ie left to Kuchar's discretion). By Kuchar's account, it was underspecified as it omitted compensation for a win. Saying "a win is just a top ten" is revisionist nonsense - every single other discussion of caddie compensation I've ever seen specifically states what a win is worth.

 

Why was this omitted? Who knows. Kuchar hadn't won in four years, so perhaps his hopes weren't high and he didn't specify. Ortiz, being by far the junior partner, may have felt out of place or not had the language skills to express himself or just assumed Kuchar would take care of him in this unlikely event (oops). Maybe there was an intermediary who dropped the ball.

 

In any event there was a gap, which had an easy fix - Kuchar, recognizing that he was by far the more powerful party (and anticipating the potential fallout for cheaping out), could have easily solved the problem by saying "hey, I know we didn't really address this up front but here's $50K. Thank you for helping me to my first win in four years". Instead, he paid Ortiz 3.8% of what a regular caddie would have earned in the same situation. 3.8%! One can reasonably argue that Ortiz didn't do the full work of PGA Tour caddie, but there is no reasonable argument that he only did 3.8% of the work.

 

Kuchar then doubled down with his slippery "it wasn't $3k and it wasn't 10%" comment, and tripled down with that monumentally stupid interview at Rivieria. Finally, realizing he had lost badly in the court of public opinion (and had few if any public supporters among his fellow players), he apologized.

 

The KJW's deflection tactics here are hilarious - this is not Gillis's fault, or Ortiz's fault, or the "SJW mob", or the Illuminati. It is all on Kuchar. He performs for the public. He is paid a public sum of money. This issue becoming public goes with the territory. As Arnie once told Tiger: if you don't like it, don't take the money.

 

Oh sweet irony.Does this apply to Ortiz?

 

 

Thanks for confirming that you wont answer as it would derail you

[Roadking2003]

More silly slippery slopes for the KJWs.

It was Kuchar's act; not sure why you're so butthurt about Gillis telling the truth.

 

Not sure why you are so butthurt about Gillis telling lies.

[BB28403]

Kuchar and Ortiz have provided different accounts of what "the deal" was. By Ortiz's account, the bonus was unspecified (ie left to Kuchar's discretion). By Kuchar's account, it was underspecified as it omitted compensation for a win. Saying "a win is just a top ten" is revisionist nonsense - every single other discussion of caddie compensation I've ever seen specifically states what a win is worth.

 

Why was this omitted? Who knows. Kuchar hadn't won in four years, so perhaps his hopes weren't high and he didn't specify. Ortiz, being by far the junior partner, may have felt out of place or not had the language skills to express himself or just assumed Kuchar would take care of him in this unlikely event (oops). Maybe there was an intermediary who dropped the ball.

 

In any event there was a gap, which had an easy fix - Kuchar, recognizing that he was by far the more powerful party (and anticipating the potential fallout for cheaping out), could have easily solved the problem by saying "hey, I know we didn't really address this up front but here's $50K. Thank you for helping me to my first win in four years". Instead, he paid Ortiz 3.8% of what a regular caddie would have earned in the same situation. 3.8%! One can reasonably argue that Ortiz didn't do the full work of PGA Tour caddie, but there is no reasonable argument that he only did 3.8% of the work.

 

Kuchar then doubled down with his slippery "it wasn't $3k and it wasn't 10%" comment, and tripled down with that monumentally stupid interview at Rivieria. Finally, realizing he had lost badly in the court of public opinion (and had few if any public supporters among his fellow players), he apologized.

 

The KJW's deflection tactics here are hilarious - this is not Gillis's fault, or Ortiz's fault, or the "SJW mob", or the Illuminati. It is all on Kuchar. He performs for the public. He is paid a public sum of money. This issue becoming public goes with the territory. As Arnie once told Tiger: if you don't like it, don't take the money.

 

How is it not Gillis fault? Kuch and Tucan settles their deal and went about their way, Gillis stuck his nose in the business of a player and his employee for the week to tell him in gillis' opinion was shirt changed. Then Gillis put the whole thing on blast which then brought in the social media mob and the various media outlets that all pretty much of with rich golfer pays .38% to caddie, rich golfer is ok with $3000/5000 payment.

 

This then put pressure on Tucan to get involved and tell some what questionable account of the deal and eventually pressure for Kuchar to cave and pay what everyone else thought was fair.

 

Blaming Gillis is shooting the messenger.

 

Unless Tucan went to Gillis which from what I read wasn't the case then Gillis isn't the messenger he's the instigator.

 

No Kuchar is the instigator. No cheapskate, no story.

 

Is it because he is self made? There have been studies showing people who make themselves or come into what they feel is wealth, these people tend to act like jerks.

 

Whereas someone who was born into money was taught how to act correctly, like not to crap all over the Help.

[BB28403]

Having spoken to two Tour caddies over the past 4 days, one the PGA & the other the Web.com, theyre both fine with the current pay scale on both Tours. So all is good Gents, no need to get yourselves all in a lather

 

Regarding Kuch and the Tuchster, well, you can find my ramblings in the other threads however alls well in the Kuch household and though Im takin a flyer here, El Tuchy is happy down Mehico way

 

Regarding Gillis, Im glad that he did what he did, I wouldve done the same thing, and Im pretty sure that Gilly is like me in that he doesnt give a flyin **** what anyone else thinks, haha

 

Good night Gents

 

Sweet Dreams

 

Cheers

RP

 

2 out of how many? I’m sure if they made more they would just hate that. Please please , no Raises! I’d just give you back a raise sir.

 

Haha