USGA PR team to Justin Thomas: "We need to talk"

[bscinstnct]

USGA, "Justin, we need to talk"

 

Justin like,

 

We just did you old bags ; )

[nsxguy]

A USGA PR social media account...somehow that strikes me as ironic.

 

Ummmmmm,,,,,,,, "public relations" using social media. What's "ironic" about that ? :blink:

[KevCarter]

If that is really the USGAs words it's disappointing.

 

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

The correct approach would be to reach out to him privately and try to put it to bed. If speaking publicly it should be to discuss why folks are griping. Not to try to bully someone into not complaining. It doesn't matter which side is correct. Name calling ( or passive aggressive nonsense ) never solves anything.

 

Well, the other kids started it! :lol: :D :lol: :D

 

Agree with your last sentence 100% It has to apply to both sides. I get the feeling someone from the USGA just feels they have taken enough abuse, and fought back. Hopefully they will take it private as you suggest.

 

Should be a great event today, enjoy the golf. On a personal note, I'm pissed, my cable is out. Hopefully they get it fixed in time! Of utmost importance, I want to see if the kids find a way to make the new drop procedure look cool! :)

 

If the "kids" want to find a way to make the new drop procedure look cool, then they need to find a replay of this week's LPGA event. They would see numerous drops without ANY childish theatrics. The girls made it look so simple and easy that you hardly even noticed it. None of them made a production out of it. It literally took them 2-3 seconds max to make a drop.

 

The guys on the PGA Tour should be totally embarrassed. I would say that I'm embarrassed for them. But I'm not because I'm literally laughing at them for making asses and fools out of themselves and not even realizing it.

 

:good: :good: :good:

 

I should clarify something, my use of the word "kids" was disrespectful, but that wasn't really my intent.

 

JT and RF are two of my favorite players. I think they are fine men, great players, and very good for the game. Always will be. I just wish they were handling this disagreement a little differently, in the manner Blade suggests. My opinion of them has not changed, not that what I think matters. Sorry to see JT having a tough day today, but hoping RF plays great!

[drn92]

If it’s true that the USGA has set up multiple meetings to hear & address JT’s concerns and he’s continually canceling them, only to publicly blame the USGA of not communicating with current players, then I think throwing him under the bus is totally appropriate.

 

Agreed ... if this is the case then JT should politely meet with the USGA instead of throwing crap on twitter and hoping some of it sticks.

 

drn92

[bladehunter]

Yea Kev. I agree. Should be good ending today. Hope your cable comes back. But thankfully we can see it through a couple options these days.

[bladehunter]

Hard to have an opinion until I know if that's a real USga account or not.

 

Being reported in Golf Digest.

 

https://www.golfdige...gram_publishing

 

If that is really the USGAs words it's disappointing.

 

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

The correct approach would be to reach out to him privately and try to put it to bed. If speaking publicly it should be to discuss why folks are griping. Not to try to bully someone into not complaining. It doesn't matter which side is correct. Name calling ( or passive aggressive nonsense ) never solves anything.

I think that JT specifically complained in public about lack of communication from the USGA. The USGA responded in public to that specific complaint. In private, JT has apparently chosen not to communicate, no reason to expect him to start on his own.

 

If true I agree. I just have a hard time believing that he’s totally ignored them many times as suggested and still spoke out so many times. That’s asking to get outed. He’s usually pretty calculated on his speak . Always adding “ we are all playing same conditions” etc to each “ complaint of the day “.

[North Texas]

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/usgas-john-bodenhamer-rules-we-know-we-have-more-work-do

 

Taking what John Bodenhamer says in this article at face value, it's hard to say that the USGA is not making and has not made an effort to address concerns.

[bladehunter]

Hard to have an opinion until I know if that's a real USga account or not.

 

Being reported in Golf Digest.

 

https://www.golfdige...gram_publishing

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

:swoon: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

Now I don't care who you are, that's just good comedy !!! :good:

 

"Public shaming" ? Who publicly shamed who first ? And for an entirely bogus reason ? :secret:

 

Dealing with two entirely different status levels. USGA is the “ authority “ figure here. The small guy is allowed to poke the bear in a minor way as JT has been doing. The bear is supposed to ignore or try to repair. The small guy isn’t of course allowed to cross the line. ( expletive laden tirades , two middle fingers up etc) or else he gets canned by the tour or black balled by the USga etc. at the same time I don’t believe the authority figure is allowed to sink to the peons level and throw poop back. You’re either in charge or you’re not.

[KevCarter]

https://www.golfchan...ve-more-work-do

 

Taking what John Bodenhamer says in this article at face value, it's hard to say that the USGA is not making and has not made an effort to address concerns.

 

Nice find, great article!

[KevCarter]

Hard to have an opinion until I know if that's a real USga account or not.

 

Being reported in Golf Digest.

 

https://www.golfdige...gram_publishing

 

If that is really the USGAs words it's disappointing.

 

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

The correct approach would be to reach out to him privately and try to put it to bed. If speaking publicly it should be to discuss why folks are griping. Not to try to bully someone into not complaining. It doesn't matter which side is correct. Name calling ( or passive aggressive nonsense ) never solves anything.

I think that JT specifically complained in public about lack of communication from the USGA. The USGA responded in public to that specific complaint. In private, JT has apparently chosen not to communicate, no reason to expect him to start on his own.

 

If true I agree. I just have a hard time believing that he's totally ignored them many times as suggested and still spoke out so many times. That's asking to get outed. He's usually pretty calculated on his speak . Always adding " we are all playing same conditions" etc to each " complaint of the day ".

 

Based upon the article NorthTexas found and posted, we are on the way to attempting to get everyone on the same page again!

[North Texas]

Hard to have an opinion until I know if that's a real USga account or not.

 

Being reported in Golf Digest.

 

https://www.golfdige...gram_publishing

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

:swoon: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

Now I don't care who you are, that's just good comedy !!! :good:

 

"Public shaming" ? Who publicly shamed who first ? And for an entirely bogus reason ? :secret:

 

Dealing with two entirely different status levels. USGA is the “ authority “ figure here. The small guy is allowed to poke the bear in a minor way as JT has been doing. The bear is supposed to ignore or try to repair. The small guy isn’t of course allowed to cross the line. ( expletive laden tirades , two middle fingers up etc) or else he gets canned by the tour or black balled by the USga etc. at the same time I don’t believe the authority figure is allowed to sink to the peons level and throw poop back. You’re either in charge or you’re not.

 

IMHO, Rickie's antics crossed the line.

[deadsolid...shank]

If that is really the USGAs words it's disappointing.

 

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

The correct approach would be to reach out to him privately and try to put it to bed. If speaking publicly it should be to discuss why folks are griping. Not to try to bully someone into not complaining. It doesn't matter which side is correct. Name calling ( or passive aggressive nonsense ) never solves anything.

 

Well, the other kids started it! :lol: :D :lol: :D

 

Agree with your last sentence 100% It has to apply to both sides. I get the feeling someone from the USGA just feels they have taken enough abuse, and fought back. Hopefully they will take it private as you suggest.

 

Should be a great event today, enjoy the golf. On a personal note, I'm pissed, my cable is out. Hopefully they get it fixed in time! Of utmost importance, I want to see if the kids find a way to make the new drop procedure look cool! :)

 

If the "kids" want to find a way to make the new drop procedure look cool, then they need to find a replay of this week's LPGA event. They would see numerous drops without ANY childish theatrics. The girls made it look so simple and easy that you hardly even noticed it. None of them made a production out of it. It literally took them 2-3 seconds max to make a drop.

 

The guys on the PGA Tour should be totally embarrassed. I would say that I'm embarrassed for them. But I'm not because I'm literally laughing at them for making asses and fools out of themselves and not even realizing it.

 

:good: :good: :good:

 

I should clarify something, my use of the word "kids" was disrespectful, but that wasn't really my intent.

 

JT and RF are two of my favorite players. I think they are fine men, great players, and very good for the game. Always will be. I just wish they were handling this disagreement a little differently, in the manner Blade suggests. My opinion of them has not changed, not that what I think matters. Sorry to see JT having a tough day today, but hoping RF plays great!

 

I hate to say this, but maybe they need to go to their safe space.

 

In all honesty, I just don’t see the changes as such a big deal. Ball drop issue, why not lean forward instead of the contortionist moves, flagstick, who cares? You want it out take it out, you want it in, leave it in. Caddies, don’t stand behind your player when he’s anywhere near the ball while holding a club.

 

It just doesn’t seem that complicated to me. And for the record, I’m not a USGA fan and have been plenty critical of them in the past (probably recently too). But lately the players actions and continual whining is actually making the USGA look like the good guys.

[KevCarter]

I hate to say this, but maybe they need to go to their safe space. ��

 

In all honesty, I just don’t see the changes as such a big deal. Ball drop issue, why not lean forward instead of the contortionist moves, flagstick, who cares? You want it out take it out, you want it in, leave it in. Caddies, don’t stand behind your player when he’s anywhere near the ball while holding a club.

 

It just doesn’t seem that complicated to me. And for the record, I’m not a USGA fan and have been plenty critical of them in the past (probably recently too). But lately the players actions and continual whining is actually making the USGA look like the good guys.

 

LOL :good:

[North Texas]

I hate to say this, but maybe they need to go to their safe space. ��

 

In all honesty, I just don’t see the changes as such a big deal. Ball drop issue, why not lean forward instead of the contortionist moves, flagstick, who cares? You want it out take it out, you want it in, leave it in. Caddies, don’t stand behind your player when he’s anywhere near the ball while holding a club.

 

It just doesn’t seem that complicated to me. And for the record, I’m not a USGA fan and have been plenty critical of them in the past (probably recently too). But lately the players actions and continual whining is actually making the USGA look like the good guys.

 

LOL :good:

 

There's a good reason why it doesn't seem that complicated. Because it's not.

[sheppy335]

He is a whiny baby, thinks everyone shouldnlike him and he should make all rules. Glad he is a great pro golfer he wouldnt make it in real world.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Hard to have an opinion until I know if that's a real USga account or not.

 

Being reported in Golf Digest.

 

https://www.golfdige...gram_publishing

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

:swoon: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

Now I don't care who you are, that's just good comedy !!! :good:

 

"Public shaming" ? Who publicly shamed who first ? And for an entirely bogus reason ? :secret:

 

Dealing with two entirely different status levels. USGA is the " authority " figure here. The small guy is allowed to poke the bear in a minor way as JT has been doing. The bear is supposed to ignore or try to repair. The small guy isn't of course allowed to cross the line. ( expletive laden tirades , two middle fingers up etc) or else he gets canned by the tour or black balled by the USga etc. at the same time I don't believe the authority figure is allowed to sink to the peons level and throw poop back. You're either in charge or you're not.

 

That is the credited response. I can't agree more with this. The USGA does seem a bit dense in not recognizing the dynamic at play. I'm all for companies employing humor on social media (see, e.g., Wendy's). Don't like it? Don't eat there. The USGA is not that kind of organization. Its rules govern all play in North America. This isn't even to mention how the USGA would cease to exist in its current form without the buy-in from the PGA Tour.

 

Think of it this way: Imagine if the NBA allowed some third party (AAU?) to make its rules. Once you get over that absurdity, imagine if that third party attempted to be funny and cute in response to an NBA player's criticism of a new rule. And then, more players speak out. Some of the all-stars. The third party would rightly be criticized for perhaps "overestimating" the thickness of the ice upon which it stands. Governing bodies can be correct, but they will never be "cool." It appears that the USGA's PR team may need a refresher on how it's not Wendy's.

 

"But, he started it!" Doesn't play when you've been self-appointed to govern all golf in North America. Act like it.

[GeorgeHWB]

"Justin, we need to talk. You’ve cancelled every meeting we’ve planned with you, but we are reaching out again. We were at the first 5 events, and tournaments last year, and your tour has had a seat at the table for 7 years. We’d love nothing more than to give you a seat. Call us."

 

USGA - take a hint. He's just not that into you.

[CT007]

The USGA looks bad at every turn

 

The rule to not line up a player, is nonsense. 100’s millions of rounds are played in the USA, but how many are with a caddy? And then how many are with a caddy that really assist the player? This isn’t about slow play, this is about the look of a few players. The USGA should have told the ___, it’s your problem. It’s not a problem for most tours, not a problem for am’s

 

The pro’s don’t play the am game, and should not be subject to this type of silly rule, and a rule that is even more poorly worded.

 

re the Drop at knee - it is a good idea, just poorly executed. If its about speed of play, then enforce speed of play. If its about speed of play but not enforcing, but just tweak a rule - then all they had to do was change it to a 1 drop procedure, and not 2 drops’- the effect would have been the same.

 

USGA is just plain out of touch.

[cardoustie]

I'm truly surprised the tour doesn't set its own rules

[davep043]

I'm truly surprised the tour doesn't set its own rules

They won't, there would be nobody to complain about except themselves. And we know the players are blameless.

[soregongolfer]

The USGA looks bad at every turn

 

The rule to not line up a player, is nonsense. 100’s millions of rounds are played in the USA, but how many are with a caddy? And then how many are with a caddy that really assist the player? This isn’t about slow play, this is about the look of a few players. The USGA should have told the ___, it’s your problem. It’s not a problem for most tours, not a problem for am’s

 

The pro’s don’t play the am game, and should not be subject to this type of silly rule, and a rule that is even more poorly worded.

 

re the Drop at knee - it is a good idea, just poorly executed. If its about speed of play, then enforce speed of play. If its about speed of play but not enforcing, but just tweak a rule - then all they had to do was change it to a 1 drop procedure, and not 2 drops’- the effect would have been the same.

 

USGA is just plain out of touch.

 

Personally, I like the rule. Getting lined up is a skill they all should have. Having somebody like you up, especially like how it was done on the LPGA tour for putts, is cheating IMHO.

[CyFan]

A USGA PR social media account...somehow that strikes me as ironic.

 

Ummmmmm,,,,,,,, "public relations" using social media. What's "ironic" about that ? :blink:

 

Well, guess it depends on your opinion of the USGA and their PR. From my perspective, they just can’t stop shooting themselves in the foot...their PR is somewhat poor. But what do I know...

[davep043]

The USGA looks bad at every turn

 

The rule to not line up a player, is nonsense. 100’s millions of rounds are played in the USA, but how many are with a caddy? And then how many are with a caddy that really assist the player? This isn’t about slow play, this is about the look of a few players. The USGA should have told the ___, it’s your problem. It’s not a problem for most tours, not a problem for am’s

 

The pro’s don’t play the am game, and should not be subject to this type of silly rule, and a rule that is even more poorly worded.

 

How many of those millions of rounds of golf played are in some kind of partner format? Fourball match, fourball stroke, foursomes. You do know that your partner can't stand there and align you, just like your caddie can't, right? This rule will affect many of us, not just the pros with their caddies. And its just fine, I'm all grown up, I can align myself.

I do agree, the wording was initially a bit of a problem. I like the clarification, I like that the players CAN correct a mistake, there's even less of a problem than there was before.

 

That's hardly the way to handle it. That rivals some of the strong arm tactics we see be leaders today. Rather than address the issue or admit any shortcoming ... they take to public shaming or whatever you want to call this. Knowing that Thomas can't really speak freely coming back .

 

:swoon: :cheesy: :cheesy: :cheesy:

 

Now I don't care who you are, that's just good comedy !!! :good:

 

"Public shaming" ? Who publicly shamed who first ? And for an entirely bogus reason ? :secret:

 

Dealing with two entirely different status levels. USGA is the " authority " figure here. The small guy is allowed to poke the bear in a minor way as JT has been doing. The bear is supposed to ignore or try to repair. The small guy isn't of course allowed to cross the line. ( expletive laden tirades , two middle fingers up etc) or else he gets canned by the tour or black balled by the USga etc. at the same time I don't believe the authority figure is allowed to sink to the peons level and throw poop back. You're either in charge or you're not.

 

 

"But, he started it!" Doesn't play when you've been self-appointed to govern all golf in North America. Act like it.

I think the USGA was appropriate to avoid responding in public to most of the complaints about "stupid" rules. But when someone says the USGA needs to communicate, when they HAVE been communicating all along with any player that was interested, when the guy complaining has avoided discussions and cancelled meetings in favor of one-way complaints, I can see some reason to make a public offer to meet. If JT looks bad, he has himself to thank for backing out of meetings, for not attending rules sessions offered by PGA Tour officials, for not reading the USGA releases and watching the videos. There was plenty of communication, JT just took a pass on it.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I'm truly surprised the tour doesn't set its own rules

They won't, there would be nobody to complain about except themselves. And we know the players are blameless.

 

I honestly think it will depend on how far afoul the USGA wants to go from PGA Tour players' wishes/beliefs on the rules. At present, we obviously aren't at a point of sufficient disconnect for the PGA Tour to step in, but we might be trending in that direction, and the USGA cannot ignore that. The way I see it, it's truly up to the USGA to correctly determine from where it derives its power, and how to maintain that relationship.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

 

I think the USGA was appropriate to avoid responding in public to most of the complaints about "stupid" rules. But when someone says the USGA needs to communicate, when they HAVE been communicating all along with any player that was interested, when the guy complaining has avoided discussions and cancelled meetings in favor of one-way complaints, I can see some reason to make a public offer to meet. If JT looks bad, he has himself to thank for backing out of meetings, for not attending rules sessions offered by PGA Tour officials, for not reading the USGA releases and watching the videos. There was plenty of communication, JT just took a pass on it.

 

Yep. I think JT said he's all for it. He might be a little busy as a superstar in pro golf, but I think it'll all work out in the end. The USGA might do better to recognize who is the bear, and who is permitted to do the poking. That's all.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Quick aside: Can anyone name another major professional sport where a third party, that publicly says it's not as interested in the professional game as it is the amateur game, makes the rules for the pro league? I don't know enough about soccer, but maybe FIFA with the English Premier League?

[Shilgy]

Even the R&A appears to side with the players, as chief executive Martin Slumbers remarked on Tuesday, "I think it's fair to say that it hasn't gone as smoothly as I would have liked," just days after USGA CEO Mike Davis said at a conference, "From my perspective, I would say by and large they've been a huge success."

 

One might say those could simply be "cultural" differences.

 

Relatively speaking, Americans tend to be more effusive/"enthusiastic" than their British counterparts - who have a penchant for being a bit more reserved.

Yep. And I would add that Slumbers, based on his statement, would have "liked' for players both pro and amateur to have actually read and understood the rules rather than just whining about them.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Even the R&A appears to side with the players, as chief executive Martin Slumbers remarked on Tuesday, "I think it's fair to say that it hasn't gone as smoothly as I would have liked," just days after USGA CEO Mike Davis said at a conference, "From my perspective, I would say by and large they've been a huge success."

 

One might say those could simply be "cultural" differences.

 

Relatively speaking, Americans tend to be more effusive/"enthusiastic" than their British counterparts - who have a penchant for being a bit more reserved.

Yep. And I would add that Slumbers, based on his statement, would have "liked' for players both pro and amateur to have actually read and understood the rules rather than just whining about them.

 

I just love his last name in light of the fact that he's more reserved than inconceivable.

[GeorgeHWB]

The USGA shows just how arrogant they are in how they drafted the tweet. "Justin, we need to talk." Like a father would say to his 16 year old who snuck out of the house at night.

 

They easily could have said "Justin, we'd like to talk," but they can't help themselves. They are inherently condescending.

[golfgirlrobin]

I’m sick of this whole thing. The new rules aren’t hard, and if you care to listen to the rationalization for them, they make sense. If you just think the USGA screws up everything they touch, then you’re never going to be happy, anyway.

 

You don’t see anyone complaining about getting to tap down spike marks, or being penalized for inadvertently touching the sand in a bunker or any of the other changes that make life easier for the player. Those, apparently, are perfectly reasonable. The one that affects the player’s ability to place the ball more often isn’t popular. Shocking.

 

Given that JT seems to have tried pretty hard not to sit down with the USGA, his tweet was completely disingenuous and I have zero issue with the USGA pointing it out. This who gets to poke who stuff is just nonsense. You want to handle this in public? Fine, then it’ll get handled in public. JT wants to complain without taking on any responsibility.

 

Rickie and JT seem to think that the new drop rule makes the game look stupid. What make the game mockable is a bunch of millionaires complaining about a simple rule change. Bend from the waist instead of curtsying, caddies move away before the player takes his stance. It might be different, but it’s not hard.