Jump to content

Ridiculous Pace of Play Idea (tour only)


Jc0

Recommended Posts

Like the idea, but like many others have stated, there is no real motivation.

 

That being said, What I would like to see is just collect the data and mail the fines at the end of the season. We all know they have the data, just log it, and at the end of the season mail each player their fine for the year. Then it doesn’t become drama, or some artificial challenge, it’s just a fine and they are actually enforcing slow play. I bet a couple thousand doesn’t change behavior, but tens or hundreds might.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 80
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.

 

Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals

 

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

 

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

 

I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.

 

In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.

 

Who's losing money?

 

Advertisers are generally willing to pay more for ad space on programs that are watched live because shows like 60 minutes often get recorded and people fast forward through the commercials.

 

What CBS/NBC care about most is obviously viewership. They aren't upset if a golf tournament goes outside of time slot as long as the viewership is there. If they didn't like playoffs they would have stopped airing them a long time ago or pushed for earlier tee times. But they don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The tour is about as concerned with pace of play as Wal-Mart is with having enough cashiers.

 

Why does my super Walmart have 30 registers and only two cashier's one of whom always has their distress light flashing? That one always stumps me.

 

Just for Black Friday sales. That’s the only time someone might go somewhere else if they’re tired of waiting. Otherwise they know people aren’t going anywhere else.

 

The last time I had to wait for a Walmart cashier was about 7 years ago. 8-10 people in line for each of just 3 Cahsiers.

 

I swore that day I’d never do it again and I haven’t. I go only after 10:00 pm at night and I use self checkout for just 2 things:

 

1. 5 quart jugs of 0-40 mobile one. $25.47

 

2. “On the border” tortilla chips. Simply the greatest tortilla chips you will ever eat. And I’m dead serious. If you like tortilla chips you must try them. Your life will change.

 

Good thing we now have Walmart shopping tips on WRX?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uhm. No one really cares.

 

Tour officials say they do but quite literally no one ever gets penalized, so then who really cares?? As a viewer, i could care less if a professional round of golf takes 5 hours. And for those who think it’s bad for Joe Golfer to see slow play on TV and will mimic the same behavior on their local goat track, that barn has already left the station so no going back to fix that one. Press and media don’t care either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again...the tour is run by the players, talk about speeding up play will NEVER go beyond that.

 

this ... seems as if a few more are complaining about it each year, but until it impacts a large percentage, nothing will be done ... and i think most of the 'argument' from amateurs is because of slow play on the weekends, not because of the tour ... that's a completely separate issue ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Enforce ready golf (if you're ready, you hit, even if it isn't your turn).

2. Have the people who record the stats with each group also record how many times someone played out of turn for each player (ie. how many times each player wasn't ready when their playing partners were).

3. Turn this data into a "#times not ready per round" stat.

4. Shame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.

 

Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals

 

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

 

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

 

I think they care and probably the network more so when they go over the time slot. CBS or whoever probably doesn't want the final round coverage of the Valspar running into 60 minutes. I also think commercial time is cheaper outside the time slot so they're losing money on that as well.

 

In general though, golf broadcasts are probably way too long for casual viewers and even if they're just watching when the leaders go off 4+ hours cruises way past what most sports fans' sweet zone is for time allotment watching a sporting event.

 

I was actually surprised at 60 Minutes ratings LOL. Yeah they probably don't want it happening every week but i don't think it is. Maybe if they were going 30 minutes over every week there'd be some pushback

 

I'm still uncertain that if the leaders played in 4 hours instead of 5 that this would actually make more money for the tour (which is the main motivator for anything). The argument would have to be this would lead to more viewers, but i think that's a tough argument as even 4 hours is still longer than a football game

Srixon ZX5 w/PX Hzrdus Red 60

Srixon ZX 15 w/PX Hzrdus Red 70

Tour Edge C723 21* w/PX hzrdus black 80

Titleist T150 4-AW w/PX LZ 6.0

Titleist Jet Black 54/60 with PX LZ 6.0

Deschamps Crisp Antique 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is everyone bringing up TV? It's totally irrelevant to TV.

 

If they actually start playing faster and finishing quicker the tour simply moves the tee times back in the day a few minutes to fit into the desired end time for the networks.

 

If the coverage is supposed to end at 6:00 pm it is incredibly easy for the Tour to guess when the last group should tee off. They have been doing it for decades.

 

The positive thing for the viewer would be we could see the leaders play an extra hole or two.

 

Totally irrelevant?

 

The normal TV slot on the big network (NBC, CBS) on Saturday/Sunday is 4 hours, right?

 

If you cut the rounds to 4 hours, you only have around 4 hours of golf from the leaders and marquee players to work with (put into the TV slot).

 

Now, factor in Golf Channel and streaming services that go outside of the main 4 hour network slot.

 

Golf Channel can just kiss their ~2 hours of live weekend golf coverage goodbye (like what's airing right now)? I'm sure they will be happy about that : )

 

Having more total hours of golf to work with means they can spread it across more networks and have more material to work with. It's like having 10 episodes of a popular TV show vs. 7 episodes. 10 episodes will always make more money assuming a similar amount of viewers.

 

Not to mention Major Championships where the big networks extend the coverage from 4 hours to 5-8. These are the biggest money makers of the year for everyone, and they will not be excited about shrinking the rounds/commercial opportunities.

 

 

The normal network slot is 3 to 3.5 hours.

 

Today the slot is 3 hours, next sunday it’s 3.5.

 

Today they are planning on having the lead group play in just under 4.5 hours and they are in twosomes. The last group tees off at 1:35 and are expected to be done before 6:00. Yesterday they got it pretty close. The lead group finished at 5:50 and they had ten minutes of fluff to fill.

 

If you forced them into 4 hour rounds the golf channel would still have plenty of programming before the network slot. They start teeing off today at 8:41 am. Obviously no one wants to see the guys fight for last place, but they will always have decent golf to cover 2 or 3 hours before the networks start their coverage if they choose to.

 

But as nearly everyone has brought up, speeding up play is not directly doing anything for anyone involved to make more money, EXCEPT that it improves the “product” from a viewing standpoint. Even the most diehard golf fans, those of us on this board, are fed up with the super slow pokes. We have all noticed that the “product” is slipping in quality because it’s becoming painful to watch some of these A-holes take a minute or more to hit every shot.

 

If WE, the hardcores, are fed up with watching the really slow players how does the avaerage “casual” golf fan feel about it? It s very hard to directly point to a correlation, but at some point ratings drop. Have they started to? Yes. Can you prove it’s slow play? No. With that said, the decision makers at the PGA Tour offices arent stupid. They know the product is slipping and the ratings are slipping. At some point they will do something about it.

 

The one giant thing that has saved them is Tigers return. Every week he plays the ratings massively spike back up again. In a perfectly “fair” distribution of TV revenue, The Tour and the networks should actually be paying him millions in appearance fees every time he tees it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curling has the same thing. A shot clock

Callaway triple Diamond paradym 9*- hulk 60tx 

Callaway paradym triple diamond - hulk 70tx 

Titleist TSi3 20* hybrid Matrix Black Tie 90x 
Srixon zx7mkii 456 / ZForgedii 789P- MMT 125tx 
Cleveland RTX6 50/54/ S400 TI Onyx 
Vokey Wedgeworks 60* V-grind 
Tri-hot double wide 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple

 

Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Adding “secondary drama” would seem to be a weak reason to add or even show some kind of running shot clock during a professional golf tournament. Enforce the rules they have or don’t. Doesn’t really matter that much how long they take, cameras go looking for someone ready to hit anyway.

 

which is typically a bunch of people on greens putting. That has always been my biggest complaint. Too much time spent on putting. Or stupid side storied.

Driver: Paradym 3D Ventus black TR 6x

3 wood: Paradym 3d Ventus black TR 7x

19 degree UW: Ventus black TR 8x

Mizuno Pro Fli Hi 4 utility Hazrdus black 90 6.5 X

5 -PW: Callaway Apex MB, KBS $ taper 130X

Wedges - Jaws raw 50, 54, 59 KBS $ taper 130x

Putter- Mutant Wilson Staff 8802 with stroke lab shaft
BALL; Chrome Soft X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a group comes in 16-19 minutes after the group in front, the late group gets assessed a 1 stroke penalty. If it’s 25+ minutes then it’s 2 strokes. Keep up with the group in front of you. Simple

 

Not that simple though. Let say the front group has three players shoot 67, 68, 69 while the group behind shoots 75, 76, 77. The later group had 24 more shots than the group in front of them yet are expected to play just as fast? That also does account for ball searches and other things that can happen in a normal poor round.

 

Concessions can be made for things like that but I play in stroke play events for $$$ and that’s the rule. Keep up with the group in front

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a way to cut down on time is to make players finish out once they play on the green. Nothing worse than watching some guy mark from 2 ft and then his partner plays. Also, I do not get how these guys wait for the other guy to hit, then get yardage and club, then practice swings, and finally hit. Once one guy plays, then next should be hitting his shot within 30 seconds. I get that sometimes this can not be done, but most of the time it can easily be done. Half the time, my friends and I hit while the others' ball is still in the air.

 

I admit I don't get this either. Be ready to play.

 

I blame the Bob Rotella's of the world for this. Getting yardage and club out is all part of their pre-shot routine now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think the Tour is motivated to speed up play. If anything, it's the opposite.

 

Longer rounds=more commercial breaks=more ad revenue opportunity=bigger TV deals

 

I agree that until there is pushback for network space from other more successful programs, there is zero incentive for the tour to care about pace. They have the time slot already booked and it seems to be profitable for the networks and the tour.

 

Now if the second coming of Seinfeld comes on at 7 every Saturday and Sunday, and golf is always running late...there could be problems

 

The tour cares about filling their window for coverage...nothing more, nothing less. Yesterday's finish at 4:51 CST/5:51 EST gave them 9 minutes to neatly wrap a bow on the coverage and fit the window.

 

Raise your hand if you think MJ is "Master of his Domain."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

 

because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.

 

 

of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.

 

another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.

Ping G400 LST 10 w/ Hzrdus Black 6.0 75g
TM M2 3HL w/ Rogue Black 70 S
Cobra F8 19*
J15CB w/ Modus 120X 4-P
Cleveland RTX3 CB 50 54 58
TM Spider Tour Black w/ T-sightline 36" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PGA Tour golf is basically the only time I don’t care about pace of play.

 

You almost never watch a complete round by a single pairing - it’s effectively a highlights show. What does it matter how long it takes?

 

I would argue that they need to do better TV production so that we’re not watching endless routines. But that’s on NBC more than the players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

 

because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.

 

 

of all the sports on tv i think golf is covered the absolute worst. last weeks coverage was awful. the producers are abusing the playing through segments by running non stop commericals followed then by the playing through garbage. neither fowler nor koepka final tee shot was covered. this is ridiculous. tv coverage has awful camera angles, unless you like the ball with the sky backdrop. i watch on dvr, and it seemed as soon as i ff to golf, i could barely set the remote down for 20 seconds before needing to ff again.

 

another member got it right. tiger is saving the ratings right now. if we get this same product when he's gone, i can't imagine what kid or new golfer tunes into golf if they can't even make it interesting for those who love the game.

 

Again... who cares what competitive players do on TV? Every one is an individual and guys are going to play slow no matter what they see on TV. If the tour thought it was a problem, they would have stopped it long ago.

 

I have juniors that play competitive golf. With my son, he has only ran into really slow players twice and he plays a lot of competitive golf.

 

The issue of slow play isn't with competitive golfers.

I am GenX.  If you really think I care about what you have to say, I don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly don't understand why the general public is concerned with the pace of play on the PGA Tour.

 

because how the pros act and go about their business trickles down to all levels of golf. competitive amateurs in college or younger think its ok to take 3 minutes prior to a shot, or mark their putt and align their line to the hole from a foot and half.

 

Nobody on the Tour takes 3 minutes prior to a shot to mark their ball and align their line.

 

Solving the pace of play issue at the amateur level is very easy and has nothing to do with how the guys on TV play.

 

And why do you care how slow college golfers play?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I followed a group at the Honda from tee to green to see pro real time pace of play, while waiting in the seventh fairway 4 minutes for player A to hit, I accidentally screamed out at the top of my lungs,” hurry the #$&% up”. ....we laughed and laughed........... I need bail money

Callaway Paradyn 9°
Ping G 3 W
Ping G 5W
Ping g400 Hybrid
Mizuno JPX 923 hot metal HL 5-GW
Vokey 50-08 sm8
Vokey 56-08 sm9
Spider Tour 34”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 7 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...