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USGA PR team to Justin Thomas: "We need to talk"


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There's no winners here...

 

...

 

And if his argument is that implementation at the professional level - affecting what? 1,000, 1,500 total players? - is the problem, he is barking up the wrong tree. It is the TOUR and their officials who enforce the rules and could ultimately choose to enact local rules as they'd like. A better use of JT's wrath may have been putting it back on the TOUR that, "you know what - these rules don't work FOR THE PROS - it is time to formally bifurcate." They've been playing a different game than the rest us for a long time, anyways, and trying to tell us it is the same.

 

May want to read some of the advertising material for the new rules. The major selling point is ease of use and making the game more inviting for new players. Says so right here.

 

http://www.usga.org/...s-released.html

 

Jt said it corectly. You may disagree with his opinions on easy etc. but that was the goal and he's aware of it correctly.

 

For the record, I think the rule changes are inconsequential at best, and at worst can go against the stated goal of making golf accessible. My only point is both JT and USGA come out of this looking badly from this social media spat.

 

I have an opinion on JT - incredibly talented, love watching when he is playing well, but on social media and when he is playing poorly comes off as a bit of a spoiled brat - and how he has handled himself did not do anything to change that opinion. And yes, I am fully aware that my opinion may affect my comments, and I fully acknowledge it is not fair for me to have an opinion like that on JT, but such is life in the Social Media era.

 

The only possible good I can see coming from this is a formal bifurcation of TOUR rules so we can stop pretending they are playing the same game as the rest of us.

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He's hurt they said he cancelled the meetings when he just skipped them? Hey, I'm too busy to learn the new rules of my job? Cool buddy, you do you.

 

Pretty good illustration of what happens when the illusion of communication has happened.

 

 

You can't skip a meeting you never agreed to. The USGA is not a court that can dictate summons to appear.

 

So an organization that governs the rules of your job sets up a weekly call to answer any queries that you might have, while also having announced these rule changes months ago, and yet you can't find the time to go meet with them, and then you complain about the rules, and lack of communication?

 

I do this all the time at work. Something changes, can impact 100's of people, guess what I do - I over-communicate through emails, calls, announcements, training videos, etc. Can I make everyone around the world attend? Nope. If they complain about the change do I tell their boss "we had a meeting they didn't show up?" Yep.

 

A bunch of guys went off on the USGA on this rule and how it's interpreted. The players are *issed and with good reason since this is their livelihood and they don't need do deal with this during play.

 

If a rule's potential application results in this type of chaos, the USGA may need to rethink how it tests rules before rolling them out and screwing up players rounds.

 

It's not just JT. Even mild mannered Sneds is mad

 

https://www.golf.com...ation-new-rule/

 

It's important to point out that the link you posted was a month ago. Since that time, the PGA Tour rescinded the penalty that Sneds was talking about, and clarified the rule, allowing the players much more leeway to avoid being penalized.

The problem now isn't the rule, or its interpretation, but that the players and caddies are actually required to remember that the rules have changed. Occasionally they screw up. Remember, this rule was largely inspired by the behavior of LPGA players and caddies. So far, we haven't heard of a single LPGA player being penalized. They've managed to adapt, should we expect less from the men?

 

I hate that you bring that up. It still gripes me to no end that he lpga players and college coaches who bent the rule to begin with are the ones who led to the rule change. Now it’s the players who we’ve never seen being actually lined up who are being hit. I’ve still yet to see a guy being physically lined up by a cAddie.

 

I get the rule. And on paper I agree with it. But in practice it does seem to be penalizing the group who hadn’t been across the line before. It’s like they set fire to the ladies and ran them 100 miles from the line. And also moved the line to just across where the men’s tours are used to being. Maybe the fire should have just been set on the lpga privately and problem solved? No ?

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There's no winners here...

 

...

 

And if his argument is that implementation at the professional level - affecting what? 1,000, 1,500 total players? - is the problem, he is barking up the wrong tree. It is the TOUR and their officials who enforce the rules and could ultimately choose to enact local rules as they'd like. A better use of JT's wrath may have been putting it back on the TOUR that, "you know what - these rules don't work FOR THE PROS - it is time to formally bifurcate." They've been playing a different game than the rest us for a long time, anyways, and trying to tell us it is the same.

 

May want to read some of the advertising material for the new rules. The major selling point is ease of use and making the game more inviting for new players. Says so right here.

 

http://www.usga.org/...s-released.html

 

Jt said it corectly. You may disagree with his opinions on easy etc. but that was the goal and he's aware of it correctly.

 

For the record, I think the rule changes are inconsequential at best, and at worst can go against the stated goal of making golf accessible. My only point is both JT and USGA come out of this looking badly from this social media spat.

 

I have an opinion on JT - incredibly talented, love watching when he is playing well, but on social media and when he is playing poorly comes off as a bit of a spoiled brat - and how he has handled himself did not do anything to change that opinion. And yes, I am fully aware that my opinion may affect my comments, and I fully acknowledge it is not fair for me to have an opinion like that on JT, but such is life in the Social Media era.

 

The only possible good I can see coming from this is a formal bifurcation of TOUR rules so we can stop pretending they are playing the same game as the rest of us.

 

Agree 1000%

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

Mark it down. The USgA is pushing towards bifurcation. Whether it’s on purpose or by ignorance. That’s what we are witnessing.

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

And now it starts. Wonder if the commish will sound in on this issue.

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

Landry must not be planning to make the field for the Masters, and skip the PGA Championship. And really, will the players own rules work out any better than the player's own Pace of Play policy?

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

Kizzire and Landry...two more from the "players tour" who cannot think past the shot at hand - great for playing golf, not so great for the rest of life. Can you imagine these dummies only playing certain rules twice a year? There would be more penalties / DQs, and the players would be whining "how can we be expected to remember these special rules for two tournaments a year!?!?"

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

And now it starts. Wonder if the commish will sound in on this issue.

 

https://www.golfchan...nship-fractured

 

 

Furyk wasn’t alone feeling that way when he arrived at player dining Sunday morning.

 

“They have said they want to have a better relationship,” Furyk said. “That tweet sure doesn’t help things. I show up to breakfast this morning, and I’ll be honest with you, that’s all everyone was talking about, and it wasn’t real positive.

 

“You would never see the PGA Tour write that tweet. The USGA, they have a shield, and they stand for something. There’s a bar, and that tweet was below the bar. No matter why it was said, right or wrong, there are better ways to handle that situation.”

 

Zach Johnson, a two-time major champion, didn’t like the USGA response, either.

 

“I applaud J.T.,” Johnson said. “I think he said everything right, and then they blasted him”

 

Furyk, Johnson and other veterans have watched tensions grow over player frustration with U.S. Open setups the last decade. There’s disintegrating faith in whether the USGA can get the formula right again, especially after the debacle last year at Shinnecock Hills, where Phil Mickelson became so exasperated he risked disqualification by swatting a moving putt.

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FFS - that's what he's pi$$ed about? Tell your caddie, the guy you pay, to move to the side and not line you up.

He's hurt they said he cancelled the meetings when he just skipped them? Hey, I'm too busy to learn the new rules of my job? Cool buddy, you do you.

 

Pretty good illustration of what happens when the illusion of communication has happened.

 

 

You can't skip a meeting you never agreed to. The USGA is not a court that can dictate summons to appear.

 

So an organization that governs the rules of your job sets up a weekly call to answer any queries that you might have, while also having announced these rule changes months ago, and yet you can't find the time to go meet with them, and then you complain about the rules, and lack of communication?

 

I do this all the time at work. Something changes, can impact 100's of people, guess what I do - I over-communicate through emails, calls, announcements, training videos, etc. Can I make everyone around the world attend? Nope. If they complain about the change do I tell their boss "we had a meeting they didn't show up?" Yep.

 

A bunch of guys went off on the USGA on this rule and how it's interpreted. The players are *issed and with good reason since this is their livelihood and they don't need do deal with this during play.

 

If a rule's potential application results in this type of chaos, the USGA may need to rethink how it tests rules before rolling them out and screwing up players rounds.

 

It's not just JT. Even mild mannered Sneds is mad

 

https://www.golf.com...ation-new-rule/

 

 

 

329e262bc96c8cd264b5ac4dda55f3c4_normal.jpeg

 

 

 

Unbelievable...
Good job simplifying the rules..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@RobertDDamron

 

 

100%. I thought @haotong_li ruling was worst I’ve seen in 40 years of golf. I was wrong

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you can't convince the guy that you pay to tote your golf bag around to stand to the side of you and not behind you, but you can complain about it on twitter? If you are really worried about your "livelihood" ya might want to follow the rules, no?

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It's important to point out that the link you posted was a month ago. Since that time, the PGA Tour rescinded the penalty that Sneds was talking about, and clarified the rule, allowing the players much more leeway to avoid being penalized.

The problem now isn't the rule, or its interpretation, but that the players and caddies are actually required to remember that the rules have changed. Occasionally they screw up. Remember, this rule was largely inspired by the behavior of LPGA players and caddies. So far, we haven't heard of a single LPGA player being penalized. They've managed to adapt, should we expect less from the men?

 

I hate that you bring that up. It still gripes me to no end that he lpga players and college coaches who bent the rule to begin with are the ones who led to the rule change. Now it's the players who we've never seen being actually lined up who are being hit. I've still yet to see a guy being physically lined up by a cAddie.

 

I get the rule. And on paper I agree with it. But in practice it does seem to be penalizing the group who hadn't been across the line before. It's like they set fire to the ladies and ran them 100 miles from the line. And also moved the line to just across where the men's tours are used to being. Maybe the fire should have just been set on the lpga privately and problem solved? No ?

LOL, it DOES make the men look kind of silly, doesn't it? And I'm not sure the women bent the rule, the caddie always moved before the player started to swing, that was absolutely within the rules. Now its not, and the women have adapted, AND remembered. The men have had a small number of screw-ups.

The Rules of Golf don't allow the Committee (in that case the LPGA) to penalize things that are permitted under the Rules of Golf themselves. So no, that can't happen if the LPGA plans to play within the Rules of Golf, just as the Master's isn't allowed to penalize players for hitting a flagstick with a stroke from the putting green.

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

Kizzire and Landry...two more from the "players tour" who cannot think past the shot at hand - great for playing golf, not so great for the rest of life. Can you imagine these dummies only playing certain rules twice a year? There would be more penalties / DQs, and the players would be whining "how can we be expected to remember these special rules for two tournaments a year!?!?"

 

Four tournaments: PGA (run by the PGA or America, not the PGA Tour), Masters, US Open, and Open.

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn’t go away. Let’s be fair. That’s the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn’t changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It’s for the TV camera

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

‘New rules are garbage’: Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, “Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine.”

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a “players tour” and that Tour pros should “fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open.”

 

And now it starts. Wonder if the commish will sound in on this issue.

 

https://www.golfchan...nship-fractured

 

 

Furyk wasn’t alone feeling that way when he arrived at player dining Sunday morning.

 

“They have said they want to have a better relationship,” Furyk said. “That tweet sure doesn’t help things. I show up to breakfast this morning, and I’ll be honest with you, that’s all everyone was talking about, and it wasn’t real positive.

 

“You would never see the PGA Tour write that tweet. The USGA, they have a shield, and they stand for something. There’s a bar, and that tweet was below the bar. No matter why it was said, right or wrong, there are better ways to handle that situation.”

 

Zach Johnson, a two-time major champion, didn’t like the USGA response, either.

 

“I applaud J.T.,” Johnson said. “I think he said everything right, and then they blasted him”

 

Furyk, Johnson and other veterans have watched tensions grow over player frustration with U.S. Open setups the last decade. There’s disintegrating faith in whether the USGA can get the formula right again, especially after the debacle last year at Shinnecock Hills, where Phil Mickelson became so exasperated he risked disqualification by swatting a moving putt.

 

For anyone throwing crap at JT ( who I agree comes off as a spoiled child a lot ) this should show that it’s the pga tour as a majority who aren’t happy. He’s just the mouth piece that’s spoken up. Rarely do people speak up like this without behind the scenes backers.

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn't go away. Let's be fair. That's the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn't changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It's for the TV camera

OMG, can you imagine the twitterstorm?? Lexi texting "The USGA threatened us, and we're following the rules!" Because we know it would be blamed on the USGA, not their own tour.

As for the reason, I think part of it was as you say, part of it was legitimate objections to a player getting help lining up, part perhaps due to a growing issue with the lining up at the junior levels. There may have been more, I don't know.

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn't go away. Let's be fair. That's the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn't changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It's for the TV camera

OMG, can you imagine the twitterstorm?? Lexi texting "The USGA threatened us, and we're following the rules!" Because we know it would be blamed on the USGA, not their own tour.

As for the reason, I think part of it was as you say, part of it was legitimate objections to a player getting help lining up, part perhaps due to a growing issue with the lining up at the junior levels. There may have been more, I don't know.

 

True I suppose. Just unfortunate that the examples are being made of the ones who not once have had an issue with this , before the rule change ( I’ve yet to find a video of it and I’ve searched ) and the ones who did it every single shot have ran away and blended into the crowd like robbers who are now just pedestrians in a large city.

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USGA Twitter guy has more work....

 

 

 

https://www.golf.com...our-golf-rules/

 

'New rules are garbage': Pro calls for PGA Tour to make its own rules

 

On Sunday, Kizzire attacked the caddie-alignment rule change in a tweet, writing, "Caddie accidentally being behind you at some point during your setup resulting in a penalty is asinine."

 

In response, Landry tweeted that the PGA Tour is a "players tour" and that Tour pros should "fight to have our own rules and only follow the USGA and R&A once a year at our US Open and the Open."

 

And now it starts. Wonder if the commish will sound in on this issue.

 

https://www.golfchan...nship-fractured

 

 

Furyk wasn't alone feeling that way when he arrived at player dining Sunday morning.

 

"They have said they want to have a better relationship," Furyk said. "That tweet sure doesn't help things. I show up to breakfast this morning, and I'll be honest with you, that's all everyone was talking about, and it wasn't real positive.

 

"You would never see the PGA Tour write that tweet. The USGA, they have a shield, and they stand for something. There's a bar, and that tweet was below the bar. No matter why it was said, right or wrong, there are better ways to handle that situation."

 

Zach Johnson, a two-time major champion, didn't like the USGA response, either.

 

"I applaud J.T.," Johnson said. "I think he said everything right, and then they blasted him"

 

Furyk, Johnson and other veterans have watched tensions grow over player frustration with U.S. Open setups the last decade. There's disintegrating faith in whether the USGA can get the formula right again, especially after the debacle last year at Shinnecock Hills, where Phil Mickelson became so exasperated he risked disqualification by swatting a moving putt.

 

For anyone throwing crap at JT ( who I agree comes off as a spoiled child a lot ) this should show that it's the pga tour as a majority who aren't happy. He's just the mouth piece that's spoken up. Rarely do people speak up like this without behind the scenes backers.

 

I imagine that, rather than being smoked public/virally, in real time, by the players, they would prefer that this all be done quietly

 

via closed door meetings

 

Or letters!

 

 

 

newman_mail_seinfeld.jpg

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn't go away. Let's be fair. That's the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn't changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It's for the TV camera

OMG, can you imagine the twitterstorm?? Lexi texting "The USGA threatened us, and we're following the rules!" Because we know it would be blamed on the USGA, not their own tour.

As for the reason, I think part of it was as you say, part of it was legitimate objections to a player getting help lining up, part perhaps due to a growing issue with the lining up at the junior levels. There may have been more, I don't know.

 

True I suppose. Just unfortunate that the examples are being made of the ones who not once have had an issue with this , before the rule change ( I've yet to find a video of it and I've searched ) and the ones who did it every single shot have ran away and blended into the crowd like robbers who are now just pedestrians in a large city.

You and I will disagree here. Its not "examples being made", its enforcing the rule. The players who have broken the current rule have been penalized. You don't get a pass on the new rule because you never broke the old rule. Most players, on all tours, have managed to avoid breaking the rule, even those for whom it required the biggest change in habits. The women who used the caddie for alignment weren't "robbers", they were playing within the rules of the time, and they are apparently playing with the new rules.

 

Its like changing a speed limit. They put up signs 2 years in advance, telling you that the speed limit will change. They ask for comments on the change. They put up new signs after all the review, and tell you exactly what the change will be, and when it will take place (9 months away). When the speed limit finally changes, they put up the signs, and if you don't slow down, you get a ticket. Its not making an example, its enforcing the rule.

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I work in an industry where the regulations are complex and ever changing, yet I never run afoul of them because as a professional that’s part of my job. These new rules are super simple. I don’t understand the entitlement of these tour pros at all. Thomas can criticize the USGA and be dishonest in doing it, but god forbid the USGA fire back. I’m sure the pga tour wouldn’t respond in that way as clearly they are afraid to upset the players even if it makes for a more fan friendly and better overall product.

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn't go away. Let's be fair. That's the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn't changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It's for the TV camera

OMG, can you imagine the twitterstorm?? Lexi texting "The USGA threatened us, and we're following the rules!" Because we know it would be blamed on the USGA, not their own tour.

As for the reason, I think part of it was as you say, part of it was legitimate objections to a player getting help lining up, part perhaps due to a growing issue with the lining up at the junior levels. There may have been more, I don't know.

 

True I suppose. Just unfortunate that the examples are being made of the ones who not once have had an issue with this , before the rule change ( I've yet to find a video of it and I've searched ) and the ones who did it every single shot have ran away and blended into the crowd like robbers who are now just pedestrians in a large city.

You and I will disagree here. Its not "examples being made", its enforcing the rule. The players who have broken the current rule have been penalized. You don't get a pass on the new rule because you never broke the old rule. Most players, on all tours, have managed to avoid breaking the rule, even those for whom it required the biggest change in habits. The women who used the caddie for alignment weren't "robbers", they were playing within the rules of the time, and they are apparently playing with the new rules.

 

Its like changing a speed limit. They put up signs 2 years in advance, telling you that the speed limit will change. They ask for comments on the change. They put up new signs after all the review, and tell you exactly what the change will be, and when it will take place (9 months away). When the speed limit finally changes, they put up the signs, and if you don't slow down, you get a ticket. Its not making an example, its enforcing the rule.

 

No. I don’t disagree. By the rule I agree. But agreeing with that leads me to the only logical conclusion (for me) is that the rule must be looked at again. Just like an artificially low speed limit. If all it’s catching is people doing 40 in a 35 and not people doing 55 in a now 35 ( the original gripe ) then how do you claim “ safety “. When most are doing 40 now which is 5 under the old listed ( “safe” speed limit. At that point you’re just ticketing your neighbors for going slow. Which leads to not being re-elected sheriff or chief. Lol.

 

I don’t know the answer. But I do know that it doesn’t seem to work as is.

 

I wonder. Why can’t some rules be a judgment call ? Why not say “ caddies don’t line up your players. Get caught DQ. “ And enforce it. Then be sure when you bring the hammer down. Would be a rare call on any tour.

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Yea I get that Dave -^. I meant more of an internal memo threatening a rule change or fines or something if the optic didn't go away. Let's be fair. That's the issue anyway. Caddies blocking tv cameras before a shot.

 

The rule wasn't changed because ams using a caddie has help lining it up. It's for the TV camera

OMG, can you imagine the twitterstorm?? Lexi texting "The USGA threatened us, and we're following the rules!" Because we know it would be blamed on the USGA, not their own tour.

As for the reason, I think part of it was as you say, part of it was legitimate objections to a player getting help lining up, part perhaps due to a growing issue with the lining up at the junior levels. There may have been more, I don't know.

 

True I suppose. Just unfortunate that the examples are being made of the ones who not once have had an issue with this , before the rule change ( I've yet to find a video of it and I've searched ) and the ones who did it every single shot have ran away and blended into the crowd like robbers who are now just pedestrians in a large city.

You and I will disagree here. Its not "examples being made", its enforcing the rule. The players who have broken the current rule have been penalized. You don't get a pass on the new rule because you never broke the old rule. Most players, on all tours, have managed to avoid breaking the rule, even those for whom it required the biggest change in habits. The women who used the caddie for alignment weren't "robbers", they were playing within the rules of the time, and they are apparently playing with the new rules.

 

Its like changing a speed limit. They put up signs 2 years in advance, telling you that the speed limit will change. They ask for comments on the change. They put up new signs after all the review, and tell you exactly what the change will be, and when it will take place (9 months away). When the speed limit finally changes, they put up the signs, and if you don't slow down, you get a ticket. Its not making an example, its enforcing the rule.

 

No. I don't disagree. By the rule I agree. But agreeing with that leads me to the only logical conclusion (for me) is that the rule must be looked at again. Just like an artificially low speed limit. If all it's catching is people doing 40 in a 35 and not people doing 55 in a now 35 ( the original gripe ) then how do you claim " safety ". When most are doing 40 now which is 5 under the old listed ( "safe" speed limit. At that point you're just ticketing your neighbors for going slow. Which leads to not being re-elected sheriff or chief. Lol.

 

I don't know the answer. But I do know that it doesn't seem to work as is.

 

I wonder. Why can't some rules be a judgment call ? Why not say " caddies don't line up your players. Get caught DQ. " And enforce it. Then be sure when you bring the hammer down. Would be a rare call on any tour.

You've already said you disapprove that many of the rules that have introduced intent, and I agree with that. I wouldn't want to see intent brought into this rule too. I don't want to see a rules official with binoculars trying to "catch" the caddie's lips moving as he aligns his player. As written, the rule is clear, and the players have a "get out of jail free" card if they just back away. Even at this early stage, its extremely rare to see a penalty. As far as I know, there have been exactly two players penalized, and each one was clearly violating the rule.

The only reason this is an issue today is the continuing twitterstorm. And that storm was sparked by someone complaining on behalf of a player who doesn't seem to have a problem with this rule, who said the rules "are fine" and accepted that he had broken this one.

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Dave-

 

Yea . That’s true. I forget they have the option to back off now.

 

Ugh. Makes me wonder why the USga is so incapable of actual communication? I mean that in the most constructive way. If my scepticle self can be made to change ways and stop talking then why can’t the pro players ? They have many more reasons to get along. I’m not paid at all. I have to think that the conversations behind closed doors are far worse than the public ones we’ve seen. And that’s part of the issue.

 

Things like Furyk bringing up the idea of a better player relations with USga has to have roots in more than what we see. People generally act worse behind closed doors. And if that’s true then I understand why they push back every second.

 

To have that be an issue is disgraceful. “ better player relations “. Why would those relations ever be bad ? As usual I’m sure it’s two sided.

 

Here’s an example of my rationale. Do you think any player hates Slugger white ? I doubt it. He’s about as humble of a guy as you ever meet. Yet defends the rules with a passion. That’s the type we need leading the way.

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Dave-

 

Yea . That's true. I forget they have the option to back off now.

 

Ugh. Makes me wonder why the USga is so incapable of actual communication? I mean that in the most constructive way. If my scepticle self can be made to change ways and stop talking then why can't the pro players ? They have many more reasons to get along. I'm not paid at all. I have to think that the conversations behind closed doors are far worse than the public ones we've seen. And that's part of the issue.

 

Things like Furyk bringing up the idea of a better player relations with USga has to have roots in more than what we see. People generally act worse behind closed doors. And if that's true then I understand why they push back every second.

 

To have that be an issue is disgraceful. " better player relations ". Why would those relations ever be bad ? As usual I'm sure it's two sided.

 

Here's an example of my rationale. Do you think any player hates Slugger white ? I doubt it. He's about as humble of a guy as you ever meet. Yet defends the rules with a passion. That's the type we need leading the way.

I think I may have mentioned that as an option as well, he does seem to have the experience, knowledge, and respect from pretty much everyone. He has the knowledge to meet with the players and present the USGA rationale, to help the players to learn. He could take what he gets from the players and present it to USGA people without some of the juvenile twittering that the players seem to use as their preferred means of communication. Of course, he might deserve hazardous duty pay.

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Maybe that condescending tweet by the USGA will provide the impetus for the tour to make their own rules. It can't be that hard since most of the groundwork is already laid and I'm sure they'd like to have more control over the situation.

 

Personally, I'm less interested in the rules for pros and would really like to see a simpler and more common sense set of rules for amateurs. For instance, when taking a penalty stroke, just allow a player to place it. The "randomness" of a drop adds no enjoyment to the game when you're already incurring a penalty. In fact, I think all drops should be eliminated for the sake of simplicity.

 

Also, OB should be played the same way as a lateral hazard and you should be able to place (with a one stroke penalty) anywhere on the line of entry. Lining up the flag stick with the point of entry seldom provides a workable option to get back into the hole and is overly penal. You're already incurring a penalty. Why pour salt in the wound of someone incurring a penalty with an unlucky drop, impossible options for drop / placement areas, or a stroke-and-distance penalty for OB? The USGA "solution" of providing for a local rule that allows for a drop in the fairway with a two stroke penalty for a ball hit OB is a joke. Any single digit facing a two stroke penalty might as well just pick up and go to the next tee. A two stroke penalty just flushes that hole down the toilet. Frankly, I'd rather re-tee, which would take more time, but at least allow me to hit a great drive and improve my position.

 

The USGA, protecting the integrity of the game with two stroke penalties. Because sometimes one stroke just isn't enough, apparently.

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Maybe that condescending tweet by the USGA will provide the impetus for the tour to make their own rules. It can't be that hard since most of the groundwork is already laid and I'm sure they'd like to have more control over the situation.

 

Personally, I'm less interested in the rules for pros and would really like to see a simpler and more common sense set of rules for amateurs. For instance, when taking a penalty stroke, just allow a player to place it. The "randomness" of a drop adds no enjoyment to the game when you're already incurring a penalty. In fact, I think all drops should be eliminated for the sake of simplicity.

 

Also, OB should be played the same way as a lateral hazard and you should be able to place (with a one stroke penalty) anywhere on the line of entry. Lining up the flag stick with the point of entry seldom provides a workable option to get back into the hole and is overly penal. You're already incurring a penalty. Why pour salt in the wound of someone incurring a penalty with an unlucky drop, impossible options for drop / placement areas, or a stroke-and-distance penalty for OB? The USGA "solution" of providing for a local rule that allows for a drop in the fairway with a two stroke penalty for a ball hit OB is a joke. Any single digit facing a two stroke penalty might as well just pick up and go to the next tee. A two stroke penalty just flushes that hole down the toilet. Frankly, I'd rather re-tee, which would take more time, but at least allow me to hit a great drive and improve my position.

 

The USGA, protecting the integrity of the game with two stroke penalties. Because sometimes one stroke just isn't enough, apparently.

Wow, so many things that have already been discussed here. For placing after a penalty, you "paid" your penalty to move your ball from whatever terrible place it was in to a better place. You didn't "pay" enough to guarantee a perfect lie in that better place, that will cost extra. If you "accidentally" place instead of dropping, and play the ball, you get an additional two-stroke penalty. Seems fair.

 

Stroke and distance for OB or lost ball? Let me understand, if you hit your ball, find it in a nasty spot, you can "pay" one stroke and move it to a better spot. But if you have no idea where it is, or if you hit it off of the 100+ acres that are dedicated to your use, you want the same privilege, drop one with a single stroke penalty. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

One of the guiding principles behind the rules is that the penalty should not be less than the advantage a player could derive for violating the rule. If a player could shave a full stroke off by violating a rule, make the penalty two strokes. This is why the penalty for placing instead of dropping is two strokes. You could reasonably expect to gain as much as a full stroke by doing the wrong thing. That's what is called a deterrent.

 

If you're interested in actually understanding a little more about the rules, I suggest you read this little 80-page book:

https://www.usgapubl...ant=25702107654

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Maybe that condescending tweet by the USGA will provide the impetus for the tour to make their own rules. It can't be that hard since most of the groundwork is already laid and I'm sure they'd like to have more control over the situation.

 

Personally, I'm less interested in the rules for pros and would really like to see a simpler and more common sense set of rules for amateurs. For instance, when taking a penalty stroke, just allow a player to place it. The "randomness" of a drop adds no enjoyment to the game when you're already incurring a penalty. In fact, I think all drops should be eliminated for the sake of simplicity.

 

Also, OB should be played the same way as a lateral hazard and you should be able to place (with a one stroke penalty) anywhere on the line of entry. Lining up the flag stick with the point of entry seldom provides a workable option to get back into the hole and is overly penal. You're already incurring a penalty. Why pour salt in the wound of someone incurring a penalty with an unlucky drop, impossible options for drop / placement areas, or a stroke-and-distance penalty for OB? The USGA "solution" of providing for a local rule that allows for a drop in the fairway with a two stroke penalty for a ball hit OB is a joke. Any single digit facing a two stroke penalty might as well just pick up and go to the next tee. A two stroke penalty just flushes that hole down the toilet. Frankly, I'd rather re-tee, which would take more time, but at least allow me to hit a great drive and improve my position.

 

The USGA, protecting the integrity of the game with two stroke penalties. Because sometimes one stroke just isn't enough, apparently.

Wow, so many things that have already been discussed here. For placing after a penalty, you "paid" your penalty to move your ball from whatever terrible place it was in to a better place. You didn't "pay" enough to guarantee a perfect lie in that better place, that will cost extra. If you "accidentally" place instead of dropping, and play the ball, you get an additional two-stroke penalty. Seems fair.

 

Stroke and distance for OB or lost ball? Let me understand, if you hit your ball, find it in a nasty spot, you can "pay" one stroke and move it to a better spot. But if you have no idea where it is, or if you hit it off of the 100+ acres that are dedicated to your use, you want the same privilege, drop one with a single stroke penalty. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

One of the guiding principles behind the rules is that the penalty should not be less than the advantage a player could derive for violating the rule. If a player could shave a full stroke off by violating a rule, make the penalty two strokes. This is why the penalty for placing instead of dropping is two strokes. You could reasonably expect to gain as much as a full stroke by doing the wrong thing. That's what is called a deterrent.

 

If you're interested in actually understanding a little more about the rules, I suggest you read this little 80-page book:

https://www.usgapubl...ant=25702107654

God forbid that a weekend hack be able eke out a few bogeys after blowing it into the junk all day. We need to be attracting and welcoming golfers, not driving them away with overly complex and penal rules.

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So he has talked to them about the rules but hasn’t....perhaps rather than taking the time to whine about the rules online he should reach out to the USA.

 

 

“It is unfortunate,” Thomas added on Sunday. “It just was — it really hurt me. It was upsetting to me because they were putting — the information they put out there was inaccurate in terms of me canceling meetings, and that doesn’t make me look good, and that’s just when I got a little upset, and then we had talked some communication with them because I know those guys — I’ve talked to them, and I’ve talked to them about the rules this year. We’ve all tried to communicate and tried to get better relationships with them. It is what it is, and all we’re looking is to better the sport and better the game.”

 

Awww poor wittle JT, what’s he 20-21 now? He should prob run the world too, he prob ready for that too.

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