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Fighting Gravity and THE Club Weight


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Plenty of people think about Gravity? LOL! Dude, I gotta change my panties, I am laughing so hard.

 

I have yet to play with anyone who ever mentioned gravity, or even remotely hinted at it. And play well over 100 rounds a year. So plenty of people? How many is plenty in your world?

 

Have had dozens of lessons, never heard any reference to "Gravity". Played in college and high school, no mention of "Gravity". Where have I been? How could I possibly have played all these years and never considered "Gravity"

 

The day I here someone comment on gravity and their golf swing, I will surely let you know. Chances are that climate change will have set in, and all the coastal cities will have been evacuated from the surging water.

 

Funny, the way you say another instructor is "bablbing". Real professional.

 

Well, God bless you my firend, and may the forces of gravity be well for you~.

 

http://www.golfwrx.c...he-best-advice/

 

One of many. Take it you're new to the site, lol.

 

One of many??? Maybe in your imagniary world. Played golf for many years all over the world. Played venues that some of you hourly workers only dream about. Never heard anyone talk about gravity. This is hilarious, utterly hilarious. Gravity is there, it is present with everything we do, but no one ever brings it up. When I take a crap, the brown masterpiece goes down the drain. Why? Because of gravity, otherwise it might fly in the air and end up in my left nostril.. It just happens, I do not say "wow, that gravity saved me from getting a load of crap up my nose".

 

There is enough to think about when playing golf. No rational person ponders "gravity".

 

Some of you are so obsessed with every detail of the golf swing. Do you worry about how the angle of your left testicle in relation to your left semeniferous tubule deviates as you go from backswing to transition.? This is probably something some of you really worry about, and are very happy to part with a hundred to get answers to. There are quite a few gurus out here that will be all to happy to take your cash, and focus on all your concerns with regards to your left testicle.

.

 

Thanks for this comedy relief. The gravity of all this is truly breathtaking.

 

Not sure if you're for real or not. I'd say about 90% of the things we talk about on this instruction forum I have never discussed once in real life with playing partners.

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Perhaps the best thing to say about the role of gravity in the golf swings is that its a matter on which reasonable minds can differ. People like Malaska, Flick, Clements and David Lee think gravity plays an important role in the swing. One of the esteemed teachers on this site think gravity is a negligible factor. Neither point of view should be dismissed out of hand. None of those folks should be accused of babbling and spreading false information. The first step to profound ignorance is to convince yourself that you know more than you do.

 

Steve

 

Agree, the babbling knock on Malaska was uncalled for but not totally unexpected as some instructors denigrate others perhaps in an attempt to quiet their own sense of insecurity.

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I tried using gravity and my swing speed was only 14 miles per hour.

 

I'll sum up the video for anyone who doesn't want to watch... Don't Pull the Handle From the Top.

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I'd put it like this: gravity is a very important external force in the swing, but there's no way it can do the job alone.

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If the club just fell from gravity, it'd never get to the ball and would be traveling extremely slowly. Gravity has a negligible affect and has been discussed plenty. To get the club to shallow players are actually applying a force on the handle in opposite direction of gravity. The golfer is the one who applies the force that makes the club move.

 

I just don't get how you can use the term gravity in your description but say it has little to do in the swing.

 

Gravity is a force.

 

Yes it is a force. One that is extremely tiny compared to the other forces at play. Which is exactly why I said it’s negligible.

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Perhaps the best thing to say about the role of gravity in the golf swings is that its a matter on which reasonable minds can differ. People like Malaska, Flick, Clements and David Lee think gravity plays an important role in the swing. One of the esteemed teachers on this site think gravity is a negligible factor. Neither point of view should be dismissed out of hand. None of those folks should be accused of babbling and spreading false information. The first step to profound ignorance is to convince yourself that you know more than you do.

 

Steve

 

It’s not an opinion. It’s physics. And there’s a reason all of the top PHDs in golf all have the same conclusion. It’s absolutely spreading false information if what their saying isn’t factually accurate. Gravity’s affect can be directly measured, and as I said is negligible

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If the club just fell from gravity, it'd never get to the ball and would be traveling extremely slowly. Gravity has a negligible affect and has been discussed plenty. To get the club to shallow players are actually applying a force on the handle in opposite direction of gravity. The golfer is the one who applies the force that makes the club move.

 

I just don't get how you can use the term gravity in your description but say it has little to do in the swing.

 

Gravity is a force.

 

Because it's negligible given it's magnitude and direction relative to the force(s) applied by the golfer.

 

Wind resistance is a force, no one talks about it when it comes to putters. Why? Because in that case it's negligible.

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Did anyone watch the video? Lol

 

PC talks about weight, forces and momentum. So yes he is referencing gravity obliquely but not in the sense that gravity will do something for you. Rather using the sense of the weight rather than fighting it.

As Iteach says it's negligible but you still have to control the forces or produce the right ones in the golf swing and gravity won't help you there IMHO.

All comments are made from the point of
view of my learning and not a claim
to expertise.

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I'd put it like this: gravity is a very important external force in the swing, but there's no way it can do the job alone.

 

Dan:

 

No one has said gravity alone can swing the club. What might be suggested is that gravity can start the club moving and needs to be assisted to produce adequate speed.

 

Steve

For gravity to start moving the club from the top, you would have to come to a complete stop, relax completely, and only then would gravity begin to pull your arms down. Gravity is a nice example of what would happen if you don't screw it up, but it is a static force, not dynamic.
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Perhaps the best thing to say about the role of gravity in the golf swings is that its a matter on which reasonable minds can differ. People like Malaska, Flick, Clements and David Lee think gravity plays an important role in the swing. One of the esteemed teachers on this site think gravity is a negligible factor. Neither point of view should be dismissed out of hand. None of those folks should be accused of babbling and spreading false information. The first step to profound ignorance is to convince yourself that you know more than you do.

 

Steve

 

It's not an opinion. It's physics. And there's a reason all of the top PHDs in golf all have the same conclusion. It's absolutely spreading false information if what their saying isn't factually accurate. Gravity's affect can be directly measured, and as I said is negligible

 

Two well know instructors who disagree with you are Jim Flick and Mile Malaska. When the greatest major champion of them all needed a coach after Grout died he wen to Flick. When he needed someone to lead instruction at his academy, he went to Malaska. Wonder why Nicklaus didn't chose the top PHDs in golf?

 

Steve

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An airplane flying level

You stick to the wall when they pull out the floor in that old throw up carnival ride that spins

 

 

Two examples of gravity being overwhelmed and negated by other forces

 

Golf swing fits here.

 

Center of mass mostly moves up first move down, unless there is an additional hinging in the wrists...then it moves up later.

 

Hands and arms move down as a result of one or both of the following:

Regaining flexion

Over tilting shoulders

 

...plus it’s been measured

 

Now if you want to argue that the “feel” of gravity dropping something to avoid something bad you’re doing, that’s another kettle of fish. Aside from that, gravity is just another buzz word that has very little true meaning in how the swing actually works.

 

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Perhaps the best thing to say about the role of gravity in the golf swings is that its a matter on which reasonable minds can differ. People like Malaska, Flick, Clements and David Lee think gravity plays an important role in the swing. One of the esteemed teachers on this site think gravity is a negligible factor. Neither point of view should be dismissed out of hand. None of those folks should be accused of babbling and spreading false information. The first step to profound ignorance is to convince yourself that you know more than you do.

 

Steve

 

It's not an opinion. It's physics. And there's a reason all of the top PHDs in golf all have the same conclusion. It's absolutely spreading false information if what their saying isn't factually accurate. Gravity's affect can be directly measured, and as I said is negligible

 

Two well know instructors who disagree with you are Jim Flick and Mile Malaska. When the greatest major champion of them all needed a coach after Grout died he wen to Flick. When he needed someone to lead instruction at his academy, he went to Malaska. Wonder why Nicklaus didn't chose the top PHDs in golf?

 

Steve

 

They can be good teachers but also have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to physics and gravity. I have no clue why you don’t understand that.

 

They can disagree all they want, and they’d be wrong. Doesn’t mean they are bad teachers, but it does mean their explanations of “why” is wrong even if the what might help some players.

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An airplane flying level

You stick to the wall when they pull out the floor in that old throw up carnival ride that spins

 

 

Two examples of gravity being overwhelmed and negated by other forces

 

Golf swing fits here.

 

Center of mass mostly moves up first move down, unless there is an additional hinging in the wrists...then it moves up later.

 

Hands and arms move down as a result of one or both of the following:

Regaining flexion

Over tilting shoulders

 

...plus it’s been measured

 

Now if you want to argue that the “feel” of gravity dropping something to avoid something bad you’re doing, that’s another kettle of fish. Aside from that, gravity is just another buzz word that has very little true meaning in how the swing actually works.

Monte, I recall reading quite often how you acknowledge that different phrasing of the same move can be huge in teaching students. What gets the message across is different from student to student. IMO what most here and Flick and Malaska are saying is gravity is that "feeling" of the arms dropping rather than yanking the handle.

 

Personally I am a big believer in "whatever works". If a student is striping the ball with the move you feel is best for him that is powerful and repeatable from what I have read you most certainly would NOT tell him he is wrong if he says the feeling is of letting gravity start the forward swing from the top.

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An airplane flying level

You stick to the wall when they pull out the floor in that old throw up carnival ride that spins

 

 

Two examples of gravity being overwhelmed and negated by other forces

 

Golf swing fits here.

 

Center of mass mostly moves up first move down, unless there is an additional hinging in the wrists...then it moves up later.

 

Hands and arms move down as a result of one or both of the following:

Regaining flexion

Over tilting shoulders

 

...plus it’s been measured

 

Now if you want to argue that the “feel” of gravity dropping something to avoid something bad you’re doing, that’s another kettle of fish. Aside from that, gravity is just another buzz word that has very little true meaning in how the swing actually works.

Monte, I recall reading quite often how you acknowledge that different phrasing of the same move can be huge in teaching students. What gets the message across is different from student to student. IMO what most here and Flick and Malaska are saying is gravity is that "feeling" of the arms dropping rather than yanking the handle.

 

Personally I am a big believer in "whatever works". If a student is striping the ball with the move you feel is best for him that is powerful and repeatable from what I have read you most certainly would NOT tell him he is wrong if he says the feeling is of letting gravity start the forward swing from the top.

 

There should be two separate discussions.

 

1. What feels can create proper movements

2. What is actually happening.

 

On number 1, and crudeness aside, this actually happened. A guy had some “digestive issues.” He was a chronic EE. He showed up one day for a lesson and his EE was greatly diminished. I excitedly asked him what he was doing. He sheepishly admitted he had some bad food the night before and the only way he could avoid making a mess of himself was to clinch his cheeks together to start his downswing. In reality, regaining flexion and squatting is the opposite move, but for whatever reason, it worked.

 

My no turn cast drill. I am very clear that it doesn’t actually happen the way I describe, but it has worked for thousands of people.

 

You can’t mix the two discussions. They are two separate and often mutually exclusive topics.

 

The point is mixing the two can have dire consequences.

 

The feel of gravity can work to eliminate some chronic transition issues.

In realty, the type of hair products I use has almost as much actual affect.

 

 

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Do you guys think players fight gravity and the weight that is inside the club? And perhaps better players know how to use the THE club weight with gravity and the natural way the club wants to fall.

 

Are a lot of players losing energy in the swing because they go against the natural downward path the clubhead and weight want to travel?

 

Would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

 

 

An in to out swing fights gravity and your body mass, a little over the top utilizes gravity and helps you stay out of your own way.

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Do you guys think players fight gravity and the weight that is inside the club? And perhaps better players know how to use the THE club weight with gravity and the natural way the club wants to fall.

 

Are a lot of players losing energy in the swing because they go against the natural downward path the clubhead and weight want to travel?

 

Would love to hear your thoughts on the subject.

 

 

An in to out swing fights gravity and your body mass, a little over the top utilizes gravity and helps you stay out of your own way.

 

WUT??

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An airplane flying level

You stick to the wall when they pull out the floor in that old throw up carnival ride that spins

 

 

Two examples of gravity being overwhelmed and negated by other forces

 

Golf swing fits here.

 

Center of mass mostly moves up first move down, unless there is an additional hinging in the wrists...then it moves up later.

 

Hands and arms move down as a result of one or both of the following:

Regaining flexion

Over tilting shoulders

 

...plus it’s been measured

 

Now if you want to argue that the “feel” of gravity dropping something to avoid something bad you’re doing, that’s another kettle of fish. Aside from that, gravity is just another buzz word that has very little true meaning in how the swing actually works.

Monte, I recall reading quite often how you acknowledge that different phrasing of the same move can be huge in teaching students. What gets the message across is different from student to student. IMO what most here and Flick and Malaska are saying is gravity is that "feeling" of the arms dropping rather than yanking the handle.

 

Personally I am a big believer in "whatever works". If a student is striping the ball with the move you feel is best for him that is powerful and repeatable from what I have read you most certainly would NOT tell him he is wrong if he says the feeling is of letting gravity start the forward swing from the top.

 

There should be two separate discussions.

 

1. What feels can create proper movements

2. What is actually happening.

 

On number 1, and crudeness aside, this actually happened. A guy had some “digestive issues.” He was a chronic EE. He showed up one day for a lesson and his EE was greatly diminished. I excitedly asked him what he was doing. He sheepishly admitted he had some bad food the night before and the only way he could avoid making a mess of himself was to clinch his cheeks together to start his downswing. In reality, regaining flexion and squatting is the opposite move, but for whatever reason, it worked.

 

My no turn cast drill. I am very clear that it doesn’t actually happen the way I describe, but it has worked for thousands of people.

 

You can’t mix the two discussions. They are two separate and often mutually exclusive topics.

 

The point is mixing the two can have dire consequences.

 

The feel of gravity can work to eliminate some chronic transition issues.

In realty, the type of hair products I use has almost as much actual affect.

 

Don't underestimate your hair products.

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Not really the club is far too light to be concerned by gravity. I have tried the gravity thing and it didn’t work but saying that I have tried everything.

The club might be light but both arms together weigh about 20lbs so dropping the whole lot just might add a bit of force.

 

Just for the sake of argument, if a golfer added no power of his own and just dropped his arms from the top with no pivot how much power would he generate? Probably not much but still some. Might hit the ball 50 yards. That's actually how I feel when I hit pitches around that yardage. I don't feel like I add power, just drop my arms.

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Not really the club is far too light to be concerned by gravity. I have tried the gravity thing and it didn’t work but saying that I have tried everything.

The club might be light but both arms together weigh about 20lbs so dropping the whole lot just might add a bit of force.

 

Just for the sake of argument, if a golfer added no power of his own and just dropped his arms from the top with no pivot how much power would he generate? Probably not much but still some. Might hit the ball 50 yards. That's actually how I feel when I hit pitches around that yardage. I don't feel like I add power, just drop my arms.

 

 

If you just drop your arms and allow gravity to move arms and clubs then not only will you generate almost no speed but you will hit yourself in the neck. Gravity is a force that passes directly through the center of mass of the club therefore it won't produce rotation.

 

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Highlights for me was Boris getting banned ( he didn’t post often but he had an unique mo) and saddened by science education failing us. But pretty much, what you gain via gravity you lose via air resistance. So we’ve got that going for us too. Oh wait, that just leaves us with the force applied by the golfer.

 

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