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USGA PR team to Justin Thomas: "We need to talk"

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  • cardia10cardia10  2510WRX Points: 193Members Posts: 2,510
    Joined:  edited Mar 11, 2019 11:04am #632
    What other major US sport has these rule issues? No wonder it is intimidating to begin to play golf. Any other sport is pretty obvious, don't foul, ball in goal, don't touch other player. MLB may be the hardest with the infield fly and that is pretty dang simple. 2 club length, 1 club length, drop behind hazard, judgement calls, drop from your chode. Golf rules require an ever changing book that not even the agency that creates the rules can interpret them consistently.
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28933WRX Points: 5,422Members Posts: 28,933
    Joined:  edited Mar 11, 2019 11:44am #633
    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.
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  • davep043davep043  4130WRX Points: 1,331Members Posts: 4,130
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    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don't know )

    But I don't think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.


    Yeah, I didn't support the pin rule either. So far, it doesn't seem like a deal to the Tour players, at least as far as being really objectionable. My best guess, after reading the studies available, is that its effect will be pretty small, and somewhat random. But I think you're right, the perception that someone got helped whether true or not) could make people clamor for reversal. Either that, or it'll make players rethink their decisions not to leave it in. Or both.

    I was interested to see that Molinari made his putt on the 18th with the flagstick in. I haven't heard much commentary, did it raise any eyebrows?
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  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day... south carolina 28933WRX Points: 5,422Members Posts: 28,933
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    I noticed it. But didn’t really hear it mentioned. Probably because it was a longer putt. And went in slowly.
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  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank  14805WRX Points: 729ClubWRX Posts: 14,805
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    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?
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  • davep043davep043  4130WRX Points: 1,331Members Posts: 4,130
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    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?


    The only definition is knee high, falling straight down, without striking your or your equipment before it strikes the ground. A ball dropped the "right way" has to land in and come to rest in the relief area. Even Rickie's drop from his backside would have been legal, from the proper height.

    With extremely soft conditions yesterday, I had lots of plugged balls in the rough so I had lots of drops. I chose to bend forward usually, to the side occasionally, but didn't try the between-the-legs style. Maybe when I'm in mid-season form.
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  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank  14805WRX Points: 729ClubWRX Posts: 14,805
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    davep043 wrote:




    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?


    The only definition is knee high, falling straight down, without striking your or your equipment before it strikes the ground. A ball dropped the "right way" has to land in and come to rest in the relief area. Even Rickie's drop from his backside would have been legal, from the proper height.

    With extremely soft conditions yesterday, I had lots of plugged balls in the rough so I had lots of drops. I chose to bend forward usually, to the side occasionally, but didn't try the between-the-legs style. Maybe when I'm in mid-season form.




    That behind the back,,between the legs looks like an injury waiting to happen for me.
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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer  2559WRX Points: 831Members Posts: 2,559
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    All of the rule changes seem fine to me after playing a few rounds. I haven't encountered them all in play yet, but they seem fine.
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6112WRX Points: 862Members Posts: 6,112
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 2:27pm #640

    nsxguy wrote:



    As for the popularity of a potential split and its influence on the everyday game, I'll ask this: If the PGA Tour allowed anchoring tomorrow, do you think there might be more belly putters on the rack at the superstores, or would there still be zero?




    1) AFAIK, this ("lying" about a player) was one time thing; a poor reaction to being chided. It was admitted to and apologized for and not likely to occur again. Let's not make it sound like this is an everyday occurrence.



    2) You have a very small percentage of players complaining. Haven't heard a peep from Li. And while there are a few pros other than Rickie and Justin mentioning not liking the new Rules (or some such), they're not whining about them. They're saying things like "We'll get used to them". Maybe THEY actually read about the major changes coming ?



    3) You need to get out more. Bettinardi and Odyssey have long putters on the rack right now.




    3. Long putters on the rack? Funny, because as I type this I just left my beloved PGA Superstore and there was one long putter on the rack and that was a used putter.




    Stopped by the PGATSS on the way home today. FWIW, one of the guys told me they sold "quite a few" broomsticks. Bellies, not so much.



    And no, I don't know how many "quite a few" are but when I first noticed them in the store, about 2(?) weeks ago, I seem to recall about 6-8 or so of each type (Odysseys - Bettis, not sure).



    Odyssey Broomsticks - 1

    Odyssey Bellies - 5

    Bettinardi Bellies - 2
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  • KevCarterKevCarter 1995 MN PGA Wisconsin 12828WRX Points: 375ClubWRX Posts: 12,828
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    PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Fla. – Commissioner Jay Monahan said Wednesday the PGA TOUR will not split from the game’s governing bodies to operate under its own set of rules.



    The Rules of Golf have been a hot topic of conversation, with some players questioning a few of the newly simplified rules that went into effect at the start of 2019 and wondering if the TOUR should make its own rules for the game’s best players to follow, leaving the USGA and the R&A to make and implement rules for others. Monahan was adamant that would not happen. “We have two fantastic professional governing bodies of the game,” he said during his annual press conference prior to the start of THE PLAYERS Championship. “We have always played by their rules and we will continue to play by their rules – and we are not going to be playing by our own rules. “We think that the game is best served with everybody playing by the same rules and the same standards. We think it’s a source of inspiration for the game.



    ”Monahan said he wasn’t surprised by the rules discussions that have taken place among players and others in the golf community. What was unanticipated, he said, was the lack of communication and transparency between players along with primary organizations.



    On Wednesday morning, Monahan met with officials from the R&A, the USGA, the LPGA, the European Tour, the PGA of America and Augusta National for two hours in hopes of addressing these issues.

    “We're doing what we should be doing as leaders of this industry, which is talking about, one, where we are in the current state of rules. And again, everybody agrees we’re where we thought where we would be,” Monahan said.



    “But more importantly,” he added, “I think what's happened here the last few weeks has just exposed a weakness in our working relationship, which happens when you got a lot of different organizations. So, we're going to tighten that up, and we're going to move forward in a way that is going to be good for the game and certainly is going to get us to the right place over time with these new rules, and I think we're in a really good place right now.” Some players have pushed back against Rule 10.2b(4), in which caddies are forbidden from lining up their players from behind. Intent is tricky to pin down, as many caddies stand on the line of their player’s shot not to line up the boss but instead to better understand the demands of the shot at hand.



    Denny McCarthy was assessed a two-stroke penalty for an alleged violation in the second round of the Waste Management Phoenix Open, and both he and his caddie denied any wrongdoing. After a great deal of debate on Twitter and elsewhere, the penalty was rescinded the next day. “In no way, shape or form did I think what I did yesterday was a penalty,” McCarthy said.

    The new drop protocol, Rule 14.3b, which dictates that players take penalty drops from knee height as opposed to shoulder height, also has come under fire, especially after Rickie Fowler was penalized for forgetting and dropping the old way at the World Golf Championships-Mexico Championship.



    Players have come to one another’s defense, and in some cases publicly called out the new Rules and the governing bodies. Monahan, though, reminded that the changes have been part of a six-year collaboration between the TOUR and the governing bodies. “We were fully supportive of the new Rules because we were a participant in creating them,” he said. “We had equal share, just alongside the other organizations.” Rolling out 50 changes at once, he added, meant there were bound to be some things that worked well and others that created debate. The USGA already has revised and clarified Rule 10.2b(4), which also tripped up Haotong Li at the Omega Dubai Desert Classic, a European Tour event, in January. Li, who also denied wrongdoing, dropped from a T3 to a T12 finish. “Lost in some of the discussion is all the things that are working really well,” Monahan said, “and the list is long, and I think it's right that we're two and a half months in and there's some rules, some existing rules, that are causing debate and discussion. Again, exactly where we thought we would be.”

    ...
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  • ray9898ray9898  846WRX Points: 240Members Posts: 846
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    He should've said professional athletes should have no problems figuring out how to drop an object from knee height and it is an embarrassment that some have difficulty.
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  • davep043davep043  4130WRX Points: 1,331Members Posts: 4,130
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    ray9898 wrote:


    He should've said professional athletes should have no problems figuring out how to drop an object from knee height and it is an embarrassment that some have difficulty.


    I think there's a line between getting the players calmed down, which is positive, and calling them fools. He accomplished the first part pretty well without doing the second.
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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer  2559WRX Points: 831Members Posts: 2,559
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    davep043 wrote:

    ray9898 wrote:


    He should've said professional athletes should have no problems figuring out how to drop an object from knee height and it is an embarrassment that some have difficulty.


    I think there's a line between getting the players calmed down, which is positive, and calling them fools. He accomplished the first part pretty well without doing the second.




    Agreed. He also did a great job throwing the players a bone with:



    "
    [background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]But more importantly,” he added, “I think what's happened here the last few weeks has just exposed a weakness in our working relationship, which happens when you got a lot of different organizations. So, we're going to tighten that up, and we're going to move forward in a way that is going to be good for the game and certainly is going to get us to the right place over time . . ."[/background]
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  • davep043davep043  4130WRX Points: 1,331Members Posts: 4,130
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    davep043 wrote:

    ray9898 wrote:


    He should've said professional athletes should have no problems figuring out how to drop an object from knee height and it is an embarrassment that some have difficulty.


    I think there's a line between getting the players calmed down, which is positive, and calling them fools. He accomplished the first part pretty well without doing the second.




    Agreed. He also did a great job throwing the players a bone with:



    "

    But more importantly,” he added, “I think what's happened here the last few weeks has just exposed a weakness in our working relationship, which happens when you got a lot of different organizations. So, we're going to tighten that up, and we're going to move forward in a way that is going to be good for the game and certainly is going to get us to the right place over time . . ."




    Not only throwing them a bone, but identifying for them what the appropriate channels of communication should be moving forward. Twitter is OK for blunt complaints, but all of the issues are too complex to be solved with 280 character posts.
    Posted:
  • widow-makerwidow-maker  1665WRX Points: 229Members Posts: 1,665
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    Monahan is doing what he should be doing... calming the situation down. Realistically, you've got 2 rules out of a bunch that the players don't like. So, hash it out behind closed doors and come to a resolution, even if it's to keep the status quo. Airing things out on Twitter was never the right way to go... for the USGA or the players.... it's just not a professional look. The only problem I have with Monahan is that he's a little late to the table with this. He should have spoken to the players a month ago when they started getting frisky with their comments and told them then that the Tour will handle their complaints for them. The USGA's statement concerning JT was just bizarre and should never have been made on a social media platform. Hopefully they learned a lesson.
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  • KevCarterKevCarter 1995 MN PGA Wisconsin 12828WRX Points: 375ClubWRX Posts: 12,828
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    Monahan is doing what he should be doing... calming the situation down. Realistically, you've got 2 rules out of a bunch that the players don't like. So, hash it out behind closed doors and come to a resolution, even if it's to keep the status quo. Airing things out on Twitter was never the right way to go... for the USGA or the players.... it's just not a professional look. The only problem I have with Monahan is that he's a little late to the table with this. He should have spoken to the players a month ago when they started getting frisky with their comments and told them then that the Tour will handle their complaints for them. The USGA's statement concerning JT was just bizarre and should never have been made on a social media platform. Hopefully they learned a lesson.




    Wonderful post IMO. Mistakes made on both sides. Time to work together through any issues and move on for the betterment of the game.
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  • ClintDaggerClintDagger  580WRX Points: 99Members Posts: 580
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    Monahan is doing what he should be doing... calming the situation down. Realistically, you've got 2 rules out of a bunch that the players don't like. So, hash it out behind closed doors and come to a resolution, even if it's to keep the status quo. Airing things out on Twitter was never the right way to go... for the USGA or the players.... it's just not a professional look. The only problem I have with Monahan is that he's a little late to the table with this. He should have spoken to the players a month ago when they started getting frisky with their comments and told them then that the Tour will handle their complaints for them. The USGA's statement concerning JT was just bizarre and should never have been made on a social media platform. Hopefully they learned a lesson.


    I think guys like Thomas know that they’ve got a direct line and an indirect line (through the Tour) to the USGA to address their concerns. The grandstanding on social media is meant to make their issue with the rules public because they want to turn public opinion against the USGA to further pressure change. In other words, they don’t want a behind the scenes discussion because it’s obvious they can have that whenever they want.
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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer  2559WRX Points: 831Members Posts: 2,559
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    davep043 wrote:


    davep043 wrote:

    ray9898 wrote:


    He should've said professional athletes should have no problems figuring out how to drop an object from knee height and it is an embarrassment that some have difficulty.


    I think there's a line between getting the players calmed down, which is positive, and calling them fools. He accomplished the first part pretty well without doing the second.




    Agreed. He also did a great job throwing the players a bone with:



    "

    But more importantly,” he added, “I think what's happened here the last few weeks has just exposed a weakness in our working relationship, which happens when you got a lot of different organizations. So, we're going to tighten that up, and we're going to move forward in a way that is going to be good for the game and certainly is going to get us to the right place over time . . ."




    Not only throwing them a bone, but identifying for them what the appropriate channels of communication should be moving forward. Twitter is OK for blunt complaints, but all of the issues are too complex to be solved with 280 character posts.




    Totally agree. I think he sent a clear message to those who run the
    On -, @USGA_PR twitter account.
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  • North TexasNorth Texas  4497WRX Points: 856Members Posts: 4,497
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    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?




    The new drop procedure is extremely simple and easy to do. Period.



    Anyone who makes it look awkward at all is deliberately doing so. Rickie made a complete a** out of himself and DeChambeau looked like a total fool.
    Posted:
  • buckeyeflbuckeyefl  6092WRX Points: 1,087Members Posts: 6,092
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    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?




    The new drop procedure is extremely simple and easy to do. Period.



    Anyone who makes it look awkward at all is deliberately doing so. Rickie made a complete a** out of himself and DeChambeau looked like a total fool.




    It was also unnecessary and a complete waste of time. Plenty of others areas that they could have spent more time "fixing".
    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6112WRX Points: 862Members Posts: 6,112
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    buckeyefl wrote:





    Agree Dave.

    I feel silly with the knee height drop. Likely due to my height and bending down that far ?( I don’t know )

    But I don’t think it really needs any change. If I could rewind time and make it not happen I would. Lol. But yea. No real need to change it now.

    Now the pin in rule we shall see. I can live with it so far. But if we see someone gain an advantage at Augusta with it , id vote to reverse that one quick. So reserve a right to gripe later. Lol.




    I haven’t dropped yet with the new procedure, but I’m thinking I’ll just bend forward to do so. Seems (at least in my head) like it would be pretty simple. There’s nothing saying it has to be to the side is there?




    The new drop procedure is extremely simple and easy to do. Period.



    Anyone who makes it look awkward at all is deliberately doing so. Rickie made a complete a** out of himself and DeChambeau looked like a total fool.




    It was also unnecessary and a complete waste of time. Plenty of others areas that they could have spent more time "fixing".




    More irony - a "waste of time".



    #1 complaint about golf other than cost, and it's NOT EVEN CLOSE, is the time to play a round, alternately known as "slow play".



    A number of rules were (re-)designed to address that very issue. THIS was one of them.



    So what "other areas" do you believe were more important for them to spend their time on again ??? image/blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />
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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer  2559WRX Points: 831Members Posts: 2,559
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    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.
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  • davep043davep043  4130WRX Points: 1,331Members Posts: 4,130
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    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.


    The drop height was part of number of changes designed at least in part to limit the distance that relief could be from the ball's initial location. The changes also made relief procedures more consistent across all situations. Eliminating multiple drops and eventual placement of the ball was another goal, which comes with some small time savings. Yes, saving time was a factor in a number of the rules changes, but its wrong to evaluate the new drop procedures based on time-saving alone.
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  • Ashley SchaefferAshley Schaeffer  2559WRX Points: 831Members Posts: 2,559
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    davep043 wrote:



    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.


    The drop height was part of number of changes designed at least in part to limit the distance that relief could be from the ball's initial location. The changes also made relief procedures more consistent across all situations. Eliminating multiple drops and eventual placement of the ball was another goal, which comes with some small time savings. Yes, saving time was a factor in a number of the rules changes, but its wrong to evaluate the new drop procedures based on time-saving alone.




    Agreed. Like I said, I kind of like it, but it doesn't save time.
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6112WRX Points: 862Members Posts: 6,112
    Joined:  #656

    davep043 wrote:



    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.


    The drop height was part of number of changes designed at least in part to limit the distance that relief could be from the ball's initial location. The changes also made relief procedures more consistent across all situations. Eliminating multiple drops and eventual placement of the ball was another goal, which comes with some small time savings. Yes, saving time was a factor in a number of the rules changes, but its wrong to evaluate the new drop procedures based on time-saving alone.




    Agreed. Like I said, I kind of like it, but it doesn't save time.




    Sure it does. Even if the player intentionally drops it near the edge of the RA it will likely bounce out of the RA less often (where a shoulder high drop almost always would).



    And on a severe slope the player won't have to waste time running after his ball, TWICE, before placing it as it won't be nearly as far away.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • ThinkingPlusThinkingPlus South Texas 2019WRX Points: 905ClubWRX Posts: 2,019
    Joined:  #657
    nsxguy wrote:


    davep043 wrote:



    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.


    The drop height was part of number of changes designed at least in part to limit the distance that relief could be from the ball's initial location. The changes also made relief procedures more consistent across all situations. Eliminating multiple drops and eventual placement of the ball was another goal, which comes with some small time savings. Yes, saving time was a factor in a number of the rules changes, but its wrong to evaluate the new drop procedures based on time-saving alone.




    Agreed. Like I said, I kind of like it, but it doesn't save time.




    Sure it does. Even if the player intentionally drops it near the edge of the RA it will likely bounce out of the RA less often (where a shoulder high drop almost always would).



    And on a severe slope the player won't have to waste time running after his ball, TWICE, before placing it as it won't be nearly as far away.


    It isn't that significant a difference in impact velocity (30% - 40% or so). It will help a little, but drops on significant slopes are still going to require the 2-drop and place drill. Drops on moderate slopes with softer turf will be where the benefit is greatest. It will very slightly help pace of play and the bad optics will occur less often on TV. Whether that benefit was worth the ongoing angst would be an assessment only the RBs can make.
    Posted:
    Driver: Callaway GBB Epic 9° w/Project X HZRDUS T800 65 gm 6.0 flex
    3W: Callaway Rogue w/Project X Evenflow 5.5 Graphite R-flex
    Hybrids: Callaway Apex 3h, 4h w/MR Kuro Kage 80HY S-flex
    Irons: Maltby TS-1 5i-GW w/KBS Tour R-flex
    Sand Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM7 54/08 M Grind w/KBS Tour R-Flex
    Lob Wedge: Titleist Vokey SM6 58/04 L Grind w/TT Wedge Flex
    Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura X w/Super Stroke Claw 1.0
    Ball: Titleist AVX (wind) or ProV1X (tournaments) in yellow
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6112WRX Points: 862Members Posts: 6,112
    Joined:  #658

    nsxguy wrote:


    davep043 wrote:



    I wish those Hondamen would've spent more time trying to make that **** NSX get around a track faster than a Subaru, but this is about golf.



    I honestly don't think the drop height speeds up every day play. At all. I have no problem with the change. I kind of like it. But, I don't think it was necessary to speed up every day players.


    The drop height was part of number of changes designed at least in part to limit the distance that relief could be from the ball's initial location. The changes also made relief procedures more consistent across all situations. Eliminating multiple drops and eventual placement of the ball was another goal, which comes with some small time savings. Yes, saving time was a factor in a number of the rules changes, but its wrong to evaluate the new drop procedures based on time-saving alone.




    Agreed. Like I said, I kind of like it, but it doesn't save time.




    Sure it does. Even if the player intentionally drops it near the edge of the RA it will likely bounce out of the RA less often (where a shoulder high drop almost always would).



    And on a severe slope the player won't have to waste time running after his ball, TWICE, before placing it as it won't be nearly as far away.


    It isn't that significant a difference in impact velocity (30% - 40% or so). It will help a little, but drops on significant slopes are still going to require the 2-drop and place drill. Drops on moderate slopes with softer turf will be where the benefit is greatest. It will very slightly help pace of play and the bad optics will occur less often on TV. Whether that benefit was worth the ongoing angst would be an assessment only the RBs can make.




    Agreed. It is not a huge timesaver but then neither is the flagstick. But if one saves a little bit of time in a lot of different places,,,,,,,,,,,,



    Point is, there are slopes from very slight to very severe. If the knee drop saves even a little time, so be it. 1 thing I can say with some confidence is dropping from knee height won't take more time. image/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />



    And since both pace of play and the overall time it takes to play a round of golf are such oft related gripes I'm OK with having to remember a slight change in the drop height,,,,,,,,,,, image/wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
22

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