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I’m giving up Blades... sort of...


tgoodspe1991

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GIR is the single most important stat to scoring in golf in my opinion. I have owned a set of MP-4s and have played many cavity backs. In my experience a ball strike off center is severely punished by a blade and I have a very high swing speed. My 900 forged can be hit very poorly and they never seem to fall short of the green. When a toe strike from 200 yards ends up on green and allows me to putt that is evidence of a cavity backs value. A toe strike with an MP-4 from 200 wouldn't sniff the green and I would be chipping. That difference in which type of club I chose to hit makes a difference in my score. Why were the Ping Eye 2s so transcendently popular and game changing? Because guys found that a perimeter weighted cavity back was much easier to hit and more forgiving than the blades they had played prior. The Ping Eye 2 helped golfers score better. People believe what they want to believe but I believe that most(99%) amateurs will score better with cavity backs as opposed to blades.

 

So many good responses in this forum already -- thank you everyone!

 

I do agree with you as well about GIR. That's usually the stat I try to go by the most. Yes, I understand not all GIR are created equal, but more often than not your scores will still improve if you're facing a 50ft putt versus a 10y chip. Statistically almost everyone 3-putts less often than they fail to get up-and-down.

 

I agree with you particularly on the longer clubs too. Just for simple math, let's say a toe hit with a blade loses 10% distance, and a toe hit with a CB with some weight there loses 5% distance. On my stock 168y 8-iron, a toe hit with a blade comes up 16.8y short while my CB comes up 8.4y short. On a 200y shot we're talking 20y and 10y. Even if the distance is smaller, we're talking potentially more GIR per round and potentially closer to the pin. No club will save a bad mishit, but I do believe club design can aid my particular miss and help me get it slightly closer to the pin more often.

 

There's an article out there that statistically breaks down your average GIR and can calculate what score you probably shoot on average. The difference between 10, 12, and 14 GIR per round is a huge difference in scoring. If I can make an equipment change and improve my GIR even by 1 per round, I'm most likely going to lower scores in the long run. That's sort of what I am aiming for.

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For what it's worth too, here's the iron set I've settled on for my 2019 experiment:

 

18* Srixon ZU85 driving (bent to 19*) --> will consider swapping to a 5W/Hyb if I don't get the performance I want, but this thing already looks so incredibly easy/friendly that I doubt that will happen. And I love UDI's off the tee more than 5W/Hyb

4i --> Srixon Z785 - will consider going Z585 if I feel like I am losing anything

5i-9i --> Srixon Z785 - firmly in the bag

PW --> Srixon ZForged - I looked at the Z785 PW in person and it's quite a large wedge, also has a really narrow heel section that visually makes it look very upright. I felt the ZForged was a better blend as my set transitions from a Z785 9i to my Vokey GW. And it has the small bonus of keeping an MB in the set to get my "fix" lol. I will stay open though to swapping this for a Z785 PW if I feel like I am losing anything, but with a PW that's unlikely.

 

I've also weakened the lofts of everything to give me the distances I want:

 

19/23/27/31/35/39/43/47

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I gave up blades in 2013 and will never go back. I bought some AP2s and adjusted the lofts to match my prior set of blades so I didn't have any change in distance. I love the forgiveness of a cavity especially in the long irons. I personally think spending ample quality time learning how clubs perform for you will have more impact on scoring than playing a blade over a set of CBs. With your + handicap (as indicated in your profile) you hit it well but still have some mishits. That could be the difference in being on or off the green or in a penalty area.

 

With GIR being such a critical stat, I will take any advantage I can get to reduce the amount of greenside play I'm forced to take on.

Titleist TSi2 10* Ventus Blue 6X
Titleist TS2 16* Diamana S+ 60X 
Taylormade Rescue 22* Aldila XVS9
Titleist T100S TT Dynalite Sensicore X100 4-PW
Vokey SM5 50*, 54* and 60* TT DGS400
SIK Pro Custom

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I gave up blades in 2013 and will never go back. I bought some AP2s and adjusted the lofts to match my prior set of blades so I didn't have any change in distance. I love the forgiveness of a cavity especially in the long irons. I personally think spending ample quality time learning how clubs perform for you will have more impact on scoring than playing a blade over a set of CBs. With your + handicap (as indicated in your profile) you hit it well but still have some mishits. That could be the difference in being on or off the green or in a penalty area.

 

With GIR being such a critical stat, I will take any advantage I can get to reduce the amount of greenside play I'm forced to take on.

 

Agreed. This will be a fun experiment and season as I've never gone completely 'all-in' on something like this for an extended period of time. I know there will be an adjustment period where the club-ho in me will want to change, but I'm going to stick it out until I get some hard data long-term.

 

As another example though, take Zach Johnson. Great player, multiple majors, made plenty of money in his career. Prior to PXG he always played AP2 with an AP1 4-iron then to a hybrid, and he could stomp us any day of the week. I'm sure he has a similar setup with whatever PXG offers. Makes me wonder why I didn't do this sooner, lol.

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I gave up blades in 2013 and will never go back. I bought some AP2s and adjusted the lofts to match my prior set of blades so I didn't have any change in distance. I love the forgiveness of a cavity especially in the long irons. I personally think spending ample quality time learning how clubs perform for you will have more impact on scoring than playing a blade over a set of CBs. With your + handicap (as indicated in your profile) you hit it well but still have some mishits. That could be the difference in being on or off the green or in a penalty area.

 

With GIR being such a critical stat, I will take any advantage I can get to reduce the amount of greenside play I'm forced to take on.

 

Agreed. This will be a fun experiment and season as I've never gone completely 'all-in' on something like this for an extended period of time. I know there will be an adjustment period where the club-ho in me will want to change, but I'm going to stick it out until I get some hard data long-term.

 

As another example though, take Zach Johnson. Great player, multiple majors, made plenty of money in his career. Prior to PXG he always played AP2 with an AP1 4-iron then to a hybrid, and he could stomp us any day of the week. I'm sure he has a similar setup with whatever PXG offers. Makes me wonder why I didn't do this sooner, lol.

I think the reference to Zach Johnson is great. I keep wanting to put a 24*-25* iron back in the bag. I know I can hit some good shots with it but I'm pretty sure over the long-run it doesn't help.

 

I look at many LPGA bags; average players drive it 250-260 yards, 7-iron/8-iron from 150 yards, and often have lowest lofted irons in the 24*-28* range. I have similar swing speed but they hit it better than me so why use any equipment that is more difficult to hit than what they use.

 

On any full swing clubs, most golfers (especially mid-handicap and up) would be well off to just get the ball on the green as often as possible. Yet everyone thinks they are one range session away from having Tiger/Phil/Spieth's iron game, and you get guys who hit less than 9 greens per round worrying about working the ball.

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I gave up blades in 2013 and will never go back. I bought some AP2s and adjusted the lofts to match my prior set of blades so I didn't have any change in distance. I love the forgiveness of a cavity especially in the long irons. I personally think spending ample quality time learning how clubs perform for you will have more impact on scoring than playing a blade over a set of CBs. With your + handicap (as indicated in your profile) you hit it well but still have some mishits. That could be the difference in being on or off the green or in a penalty area.

 

With GIR being such a critical stat, I will take any advantage I can get to reduce the amount of greenside play I'm forced to take on.

 

Agreed. This will be a fun experiment and season as I've never gone completely 'all-in' on something like this for an extended period of time. I know there will be an adjustment period where the club-ho in me will want to change, but I'm going to stick it out until I get some hard data long-term.

 

As another example though, take Zach Johnson. Great player, multiple majors, made plenty of money in his career. Prior to PXG he always played AP2 with an AP1 4-iron then to a hybrid, and he could stomp us any day of the week. I'm sure he has a similar setup with whatever PXG offers. Makes me wonder why I didn't do this sooner, lol.

I think the reference to Zach Johnson is great. I keep wanting to put a 24*-25* iron back in the bag. I know I can hit some good shots with it but I'm pretty sure over the long-run it doesn't help.

 

I look at many LPGA bags; average players drive it 250-260 yards, 7-iron/8-iron from 150 yards, and often have lowest lofted irons in the 24*-28* range. I have similar swing speed but they hit it better than me so why use any equipment that is more difficult to hit than what they use.

 

On any full swing clubs, most golfers (especially mid-handicap and up) would be well off to just get the ball on the green as often as possible. Yet everyone thinks they are one range session away from having Tiger/Phil/Spieth's iron game, and you get guys who hit less than 9 greens per round worrying about working the ball.

 

I often think I shouldn't play an AP2 4 iron because many of the guys who play them don't use the 4 and opt for something more forgiving. I think the reasoning might not be that it isn't forgiving but rather that those guys swing so fast they probably get way too much spin with it. The AP2 4 iron is not that hard to hit at all I can't imagine they have trouble with it. I'm sure they just can't keep the spin down on these things.

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The Z Forged has to be one of the tastiest looking clubs I've ever seen in my life. Proportionally just perfect. I have no idea how you had the self control not to at least go down to 8 iron with it.

 

Haha, because that's not part of the experiment! I really only did it for the visual transition benefit from 9i -> PW -> GW. It just happens to have the added benefit of keeping one MB in the bag for fun.

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I gave up blades in 2013 and will never go back. I bought some AP2s and adjusted the lofts to match my prior set of blades so I didn't have any change in distance. I love the forgiveness of a cavity especially in the long irons. I personally think spending ample quality time learning how clubs perform for you will have more impact on scoring than playing a blade over a set of CBs. With your + handicap (as indicated in your profile) you hit it well but still have some mishits. That could be the difference in being on or off the green or in a penalty area.

 

With GIR being such a critical stat, I will take any advantage I can get to reduce the amount of greenside play I'm forced to take on.

 

Agreed. This will be a fun experiment and season as I've never gone completely 'all-in' on something like this for an extended period of time. I know there will be an adjustment period where the club-ho in me will want to change, but I'm going to stick it out until I get some hard data long-term.

 

As another example though, take Zach Johnson. Great player, multiple majors, made plenty of money in his career. Prior to PXG he always played AP2 with an AP1 4-iron then to a hybrid, and he could stomp us any day of the week. I'm sure he has a similar setup with whatever PXG offers. Makes me wonder why I didn't do this sooner, lol.

I think the reference to Zach Johnson is great. I keep wanting to put a 24*-25* iron back in the bag. I know I can hit some good shots with it but I'm pretty sure over the long-run it doesn't help.

 

I look at many LPGA bags; average players drive it 250-260 yards, 7-iron/8-iron from 150 yards, and often have lowest lofted irons in the 24*-28* range. I have similar swing speed but they hit it better than me so why use any equipment that is more difficult to hit than what they use.

 

On any full swing clubs, most golfers (especially mid-handicap and up) would be well off to just get the ball on the green as often as possible. Yet everyone thinks they are one range session away from having Tiger/Phil/Spieth's iron game, and you get guys who hit less than 9 greens per round worrying about working the ball.

 

I often think I shouldn't play an AP2 4 iron because many of the guys who play them don't use the 4 and opt for something more forgiving. I think the reasoning might not be that it isn't forgiving but rather that those guys swing so fast they probably get way too much spin with it. The AP2 4 iron is not that hard to hit at all I can't imagine they have trouble with it. I'm sure they just can't keep the spin down on these things.

 

I'm not sure that would be the case. If they over spin their 4-iron, then wouldn't it stand that they would also tend to over spin their 5-iron? My thought is more on the lines that the 4i gets into a distance territory where you're just trying to get it on the green and land soft. For me, my 4i is ~220-225y, when I'm at that distance from the fairway or on a long Par 3, I really just want something that's going to fly high and straight and land soft. I mean 220y to a green is a pretty darn far ways away. I'd imagine they do it more for height purposes, that an AP2 (or whatever set they use) 4i doesn't give them the flight they want to step up to a chunkier iron than what they have.

 

You see a lot of guys transition a step up in the 4i from whatever they use. Spieth goes from AP2 to T-MB, Zach Johnson went from AP2 to AP1, Justin Thomas goes from MB to AP2, Rory Mcilroy goes from the P730 to P750, John Rahm (at least used to) go from P750 to a UDI, Molinari goes from Apex MB to Apex Pro, etc. etc.. I think it's about keeping their trajectory in whatever window they want to see, and when you go from a 5i to a 4i (especially when most 4i are like 23/22* nowadays to take out the 3-iron) then they probably want more lift when the loft gets that low. They don't want to be hitting low bullets into a green from 225y.

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You'll be back to Blades for sure! :pimp:

 

Else i'm 100% with bladehunter on this matter.

 

Also been hunting for irons the past 3 years going back an forth.

 

Started with the Nike VR Pro Blades, went to > Cobra One Length > 718 CB > 718 AP2 > Now i'm back at 5-7 AP2 8-PW VR Pro

 

What I found was that other irons wouldn't make me better, what mattered was how I feel and how I want to play golf. Playing Blades is the best feeling out there, striking a CB feels dead to me. It's a game, have fun, play with what you love. I'm a 7 hdc wanna go to 5 this year.

 

What I'm trying to say is, what do you want with your golf? Hard for us to judge here.

 

Also watch some Mark Crossfield on the subject on Youtube, not because he plays blades, but he has some really good insights on this particular matter. He was a CB guy back in the day.

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Thomas only has ap2 in the 3. He's still mb 4.

 

Ah, I was going off this: http://www.golfwrx.c...e-invitational/

 

Maybe he switched it around.

 

yep looks liek he does...must go ap2 for longest iron and swaps 3 in and out depending on course ? who knows... for what its worth in the 3 iron i agree with you... 3 iron isnt something thats used other then 2nd shot par 5 and off some tees anymore anyway ... 4 iron i still find to be used alot especially on windy days , so i prefer it to match my iron set so that it plays the same as 5 down

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TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

srixon zx 19* elements 9F5T 

Cobra king SZ 25.5* KBS TD cat 5 70 

TM p7mc 5-pw Mmt125tx 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can’t hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I’m a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don’t like the big gi irons aren’t always being snobs. Sometimes they just don’t work as advertised for some reason.

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can't hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I'm a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don't like the big gi irons aren't always being snobs. Sometimes they just don't work as advertised for some reason.

 

 

... I hear ya and I have never been able to play SGI's or even GI's either, I wish I could. So I certainly don't assume someone is a snob that plays MB's instead of SGI's. That said, I don't see the reason they are not playing GI or even more appropriately forged players CB's, at least in mid and long irons IF scoring is their goal. Having played MB's for years and owning at least 10 sets I understand the feel and the love of MB's. But for most of us, mishitting a Cobra Tour Forged/AP2/Apex/P790 5 iron a little on the toe and still hitting a par 5 in two just short and right on the green is always better than missing the green with a MB 5 iron. As always I do not write that thinking I am going to change the mind of anyone playing MB's or a WRX member looking to move into MB's because down that road lies nothing but arguments. Play what makes you happy. I am in Phoenix for the winter and play almost everyday so in the 60+ rounds I have played as a single (not counting some repeat rounds with friends I have made) I have seen just one set of MB's, and that guy admitted he shouldn't be playing them but as an ex D1 college player that doesn't have the time to practice or even play enough to justify MB's, he hasn't gotten around to finding some players irons but it is on his list. I honestly think WRX supports the entire 1% of golfers that buy MB's.

Driver:       TM Qi10 ... Ventus Velocore Red 5R
Fairway:    Cobra Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:    Ping G430 22* ... Alta CB Black 70r
                  TM Dhy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r

Irons:         Titleist T200 '23 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:    Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:       Cobra King Sport-60
Ball:            2023 Maxfli Tour

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I cant hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and Im a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who dont like the big gi irons arent always being snobs. Sometimes they just dont work as advertised for some reason.

 

I just have a hard time believing that a poor ball striker hits an MB long, high, and straight. I’m not gonna stress over it lol but I definitely do not believe it. If you’re not pounding the center of the face of an MB almost 100% of the time there is no benefit to playing them other than the fact you just want to and that’s ok too.

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can’t hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I’m a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don’t like the big gi irons aren’t always being snobs. Sometimes they just don’t work as advertised for some reason.

 

I just have a hard time believing that a poor ball striker hits an MB long, high, and straight. I’m not gonna stress over it lol but I definitely do not believe it. If you’re not pounding the center of the face of an MB almost 100% of the time there is no benefit to playing them other than the fact you just want to and that’s ok too.

 

I can't hit an MB to save my life. Low stingers all day. I’m not advocating for mb’s at all. I actually personally prefer a smallish profile CB. Point i was trying to make is that there is no magic bullet for long, high, straight. Every iron design is about trade offs. I don't think there is anything out there that is just magically better or easier, at least not for everyone. I would play the ugliest shovels in the world if they were magically long, high, and straight. Figuring out whats works is all part of the fun i guess.

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I cant hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and Im a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who dont like the big gi irons arent always being snobs. Sometimes they just dont work as advertised for some reason.

 

I just have a hard time believing that a poor ball striker hits an MB long, high, and straight. Im not gonna stress over it lol but I definitely do not believe it. If youre not pounding the center of the face of an MB almost 100% of the time there is no benefit to playing them other than the fact you just want to and thats ok too.

 

I can't hit an MB to save my life. Low stingers all day. Im not advocating for mbs at all. I actually personally prefer a smallish profile CB. Point i was trying to make is that there is no magic bullet for long, high, straight. Every iron design is about trade offs. I don't think there is anything out there that is just magically better or easier, at least not for everyone. I would play the ugliest shovels in the world if they were magically long, high, and straight. Figuring out whats works is all part of the fun i guess.

 

Apologies as I didn’t fully understand what you were saying. I agree there’s no magic bullet for long, high, and straight but you definitely won’t get it if you don’t hit a MB dead solid.

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can't hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I'm a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don't like the big gi irons aren't always being snobs. Sometimes they just don't work as advertised for some reason.

 

 

... I hear ya and I have never been able to play SGI's or even GI's either, I wish I could. So I certainly don't assume someone is a snob that plays MB's instead of SGI's. That said, I don't see the reason they are not playing GI or even more appropriately forged players CB's, at least in mid and long irons IF scoring is their goal.

 

 

I know I've posted this to you before, and not just here, but why let that stop me? LOL

 

In my experience, there is no difference in results between MBs and what many call player's CBs, or even moderate game improvement sticks, until one gets to the longest clubs, around 25*/26* loft and less. Possibly not even then. For me, of course ;), though in some (many?) cases, MOI measurements show little difference between MBs and these sorts of CBs, suggesting science isn't exactly opposing my view. :)

 

I've played various CBs for extended portions of nearly every season I've played golf. And with virtually every one of those sets, I've found my scoring better with the MBs. That's the only driver behind my choice to play them. I don't try to work the ball, or any of the classic reasons frequently quoted as reasons to use such sticks. Just my scores.

 

I've gotten used to the feel, and like it, but i was able to do that with Eye2+, also, so it's not really a motivator. :)

 

Speaking of Eye2+... they are the only CBs that have given me equivalent scores to what I've gotten from my MBs. There are a couple aspects to their use in my hands that keep me from playing them regularly, which is a bit disappointing. Indestructo-irons are nice to have around. ;)

 

Based on my results, I find this whole discussion rather puzzling <shrug>

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can't hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I'm a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don't like the big gi irons aren't always being snobs. Sometimes they just don't work as advertised for some reason.

 

 

... I hear ya and I have never been able to play SGI's or even GI's either, I wish I could. So I certainly don't assume someone is a snob that plays MB's instead of SGI's. That said, I don't see the reason they are not playing GI or even more appropriately forged players CB's, at least in mid and long irons IF scoring is their goal.

 

 

I know I've posted this to you before, and not just here, but why let that stop me? LOL

 

In my experience, there is no difference in results between MBs and what many call player's CBs, or even moderate game improvement sticks, until one gets to the longest clubs, around 25*/26* loft and less. Possibly not even then. For me, of course ;), though in some (many?) cases, MOI measurements show little difference between MBs and these sorts of CBs, suggesting science isn't exactly opposing my view. :)

 

I've played various CBs for extended portions of nearly every season I've played golf. And with virtually every one of those sets, I've found my scoring better with the MBs. That's the only driver behind my choice to play them. I don't try to work the ball, or any of the classic reasons frequently quoted as reasons to use such sticks. Just my scores.

 

I've gotten used to the feel, and like it, but i was able to do that with Eye2+, also, so it's not really a motivator. :)

 

Speaking of Eye2+... they are the only CBs that have given me equivalent scores to what I've gotten from my MBs. There are a couple aspects to their use in my hands that keep me from playing them regularly, which is a bit disappointing. Indestructo-irons are nice to have around. ;)

 

Based on my results, I find this whole discussion rather puzzling <shrug>

 

 

 

Exactly. There’s a certain level of poor play that isn’t gonna change no matter what you use.

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I have a couple of thoughts that popped into my head about scoring when I thought about my one round with baby blades last season. I'm a ho-hum 4 handicap, so I have a decent idea of my misses and how they normally affect proximity. I definitely shot the worst score of the season and it was 13 strokes above my average. I will say that the course was playing long and wet, but mishits were measurably (some severe, others 5 yards) punished, whether they were slightly fat where a bit more bounce would have helped, or slightly toe where more perimeter weighting would help.

 

Now, obviously this is small same size, and maybe I could have hit a couple of chips closer and made 4 more makeable putts, but the mishits were definitely a little to a lot further from the hole on a tough course, with no real(water/ob) penalties for my skill level reasonably near the greens. But this isn't the point.

 

I'm seeing a lot of golfers saying that they're scores aren't very different and that their handicaps don't go up or down. I just wonder how closely they are paying attention. 1 stroke on any given day doesnt seem like much, but over the course of many rounds, it really adds up. And then you have a single digit like me where maybe a mishit or 2 a round turned a double into a triple but it doesn't affect your handicap because of ESC max doubles. Or your handicap doesn't go up because your bad rounds are not counted, but the days you pure the blades, your best 10 avg is the same. If you were playing tournament golf, those strokes add up fast (especially when there isn't a max). I guess what I'm saying is, "about the same" isn't the same as "the same" in terms of score and this might be part of the confusion?

 

I say play what you want for whatever reason you want, but I hope everyone who cares about score is being honest about the mis hits. I know my story is extremely anecdotal and very small sample size, but I'm sure almost all those swings would have been closer and most likely 3 to 6 shots better overall. I don't play sgi, but I know if I had to score in a tourney or 1 round and had the choice between sgi or blades, sgis would definitely help my miss more often than a blade would help my pure shots. I would certainly bet on me needing the help. ?

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I'm seeing a lot of golfers saying that they're scores aren't very different and that their handicaps don't go up or down. I just wonder how closely they are paying attention. 1 stroke on any given day doesnt seem like much, but over the course of many rounds, it really adds up. And then you have a single digit like me where maybe a mishit or 2 a round turned a double into a triple but it doesn't affect your handicap because of ESC max doubles. Or your handicap doesn't go up because your bad rounds are not counted, but the days you pure the blades, your best 10 avg is the same. If you were playing tournament golf, those strokes add up fast (especially when there isn't a max). I guess what I'm saying is, "about the same" isn't the same as "the same" in terms of score and this might be part of the confusion?

It's probably part of the reason. A lot of players on the forum seem to have the attitude of "I only remember the good rounds." Or, "I always go for it. I'd rather shoot 1 even par 72 round a year and shoot 80 something a bunch of times than grind out a bunch of consistent 75-77s."

 

I don't enter my scores using ESC, and I am happy making small consistent gains in my scores. I don't think either approach is necessarily better (do whatever you want), but it probably adds to people's assessment of what's going on.

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... Interesting round yesterday with an ex DI college baseball player. He consistently drove the ball in the 300-340yd range. He hit one that caught a slope just over 380 yds. Probably 5'10" around 175lbs and pound for pound the longest driver I have ever been paired with. Extremely accurate only missing 2 fairways, one a snap hook and the other a high slice. But what I found very interesting is he played Ping G30 irons. I asked him if he read any golf forums and he said he never had. His room mate tried to make the golf team but didn't make the cut. He played MB's and my playing pard had him hit his G30's which he hit high, long and straight. He said his room mate responded with "some nonsense" about working the ball, hitting the ground and some other stuff that didn't make sense to him. He said he thought his room mate was an idiot for playing those clubs. Why wouldn't you play irons you can hit high, long and straight even when you don't hit them perfectly? Fwiw, he didn't even know what kind of shafts he was playing, his short game was a little suspect but ball striking was as pure as anyone I have ever played with. Not making a statement, just thought I would share this anecdotal story.

 

I think everyone would always choose to play what they hit long high and straight. The problem is that what you hit long high and straight can be surprising. I can't hit ping g series iron to save my life. No idea why. I had them in the bag for a month and shanked everything for a month straight. Hit Mizuno MP much better and I'm a poor ballstriker! What a weird game. People who don't like the big gi irons aren't always being snobs. Sometimes they just don't work as advertised for some reason.

 

 

... I hear ya and I have never been able to play SGI's or even GI's either, I wish I could. So I certainly don't assume someone is a snob that plays MB's instead of SGI's. That said, I don't see the reason they are not playing GI or even more appropriately forged players CB's, at least in mid and long irons IF scoring is their goal.

 

 

I know I've posted this to you before, and not just here, but why let that stop me? LOL

 

In my experience, there is no difference in results between MBs and what many call player's CBs, or even moderate game improvement sticks, until one gets to the longest clubs, around 25*/26* loft and less. Possibly not even then. For me, of course ;), though in some (many?) cases, MOI measurements show little difference between MBs and these sorts of CBs, suggesting science isn't exactly opposing my view. :)

 

I've played various CBs for extended portions of nearly every season I've played golf. And with virtually every one of those sets, I've found my scoring better with the MBs. That's the only driver behind my choice to play them. I don't try to work the ball, or any of the classic reasons frequently quoted as reasons to use such sticks. Just my scores.

 

I've gotten used to the feel, and like it, but i was able to do that with Eye2+, also, so it's not really a motivator. :)

 

Speaking of Eye2+... they are the only CBs that have given me equivalent scores to what I've gotten from my MBs. There are a couple aspects to their use in my hands that keep me from playing them regularly, which is a bit disappointing. Indestructo-irons are nice to have around. ;)

 

Based on my results, I find this whole discussion rather puzzling <shrug>

 

 

 

Exactly. There’s a certain level of poor play that isn’t gonna change no matter what you use.

 

 

Did a roving gang of blade users take your Dew money at the course when you were a kid?

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, 43.5", Phenom NL 60X -or- Cobra SpeedZone, ProtoPype 80S, 43.5"

Fwy woods: King LTD 3/4, Rogue Black 75X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour 3w, NV105 X -or- TEE E8 Beta 12*, Rogue Silver 70X
Hybrid:  Cobra King Tec 2h, MMT 80 S -or- TEE CBX 17*, HZRDUS 85 6.0

2 iron:  Arias D-23, Modus3 120 S; Mizuno MP-20 HMB, NS Pro 950 R

Irons grab bag:  1-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 1-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R; 2-PW Golden Ram Vibration Matched, NS Pro 950WF S; testing: Arias D-23 5i w/Modus 120 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or- Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Cobra Snakebite 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" -or- Maxfli TM-2, 35"
Balls: Chrome Soft, Kirkland Signature 3pc (v3), Wilson Triad

Grip preference: various GripMaster leather options or Star Grip Sidewinders of assorted colors

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I'm seeing a lot of golfers saying that they're scores aren't very different and that their handicaps don't go up or down. I just wonder how closely they are paying attention. 1 stroke on any given day doesnt seem like much, but over the course of many rounds, it really adds up. And then you have a single digit like me where maybe a mishit or 2 a round turned a double into a triple but it doesn't affect your handicap because of ESC max doubles. Or your handicap doesn't go up because your bad rounds are not counted, but the days you pure the blades, your best 10 avg is the same. If you were playing tournament golf, those strokes add up fast (especially when there isn't a max). I guess what I'm saying is, "about the same" isn't the same as "the same" in terms of score and this might be part of the confusion?

It's probably part of the reason. A lot of players on the forum seem to have the attitude of "I only remember the good rounds." Or, "I always go for it. I'd rather shoot 1 even par 72 round a year and shoot 80 something a bunch of times than grind out a bunch of consistent 75-77s."

 

I don't enter my scores using ESC, and I am happy making small consistent gains in my scores. I don't think either approach is necessarily better (do whatever you want), but it probably adds to people's assessment of what's going on.

 

I don't think ESC is an option is it? Sort of sandbagging if everybody is using it and you're entering without.

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I'm seeing a lot of golfers saying that they're scores aren't very different and that their handicaps don't go up or down. I just wonder how closely they are paying attention. 1 stroke on any given day doesnt seem like much, but over the course of many rounds, it really adds up. And then you have a single digit like me where maybe a mishit or 2 a round turned a double into a triple but it doesn't affect your handicap because of ESC max doubles. Or your handicap doesn't go up because your bad rounds are not counted, but the days you pure the blades, your best 10 avg is the same. If you were playing tournament golf, those strokes add up fast (especially when there isn't a max). I guess what I'm saying is, "about the same" isn't the same as "the same" in terms of score and this might be part of the confusion?

It's probably part of the reason. A lot of players on the forum seem to have the attitude of "I only remember the good rounds." Or, "I always go for it. I'd rather shoot 1 even par 72 round a year and shoot 80 something a bunch of times than grind out a bunch of consistent 75-77s."

 

I don't enter my scores using ESC, and I am happy making small consistent gains in my scores. I don't think either approach is necessarily better (do whatever you want), but it probably adds to people's assessment of what's going on.

 

I don't think ESC is an option is it? Sort of sandbagging if everybody is using it and you're entering without.

I guess probably true. I'm not playing in any real tournaments so it doesn't really matter though. There's a monthly medal at my course, but it's usually a stableford and there are enough guys that are dramatically massaging their index that I'm not taking anyone's prizes (I've got 3rd once).

 

Honestly, I kind of think ESC and even the way handicaps are calculated are kind of stupid. Triples and quads happen and so do the below average rounds. I'm more interested in my average score. But this is another discussion and I'm not disputing your claim...

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