Jimmy Ballard

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[Ayersjj]

It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.

 

Before Ballard

I played college golf 1981-85 @ The Citadel. Top 10 all Southern conference 1984/85. Those 4years I pulled the butt of club into the ball and play w shear guts and hit millions of golfballs.

 

Turned pro and went to see Jimmy after struggling mini tour 1986 making zero $$.

 

After Jimmy

1987 Kentucky Open 3rd place professional division

1987 Multiple Michelob classics in the $$ Top 1-3 place

1988 Missed getting in Doral by one shot

1988 Missed getting in Honda by one shot

1988 Missed Canadian Tour by one shot

1988 Titusville Open 66 first round 3 off Hatalski &Dent

1989 Tornado Tour Win w 71

Married 1991 got Amateur status back

1996 Coshocton Invitation 1st place w 68

1996 Muirfield Village Club Champion

1997 Muirfield Village Club Champion

1997 US Mid-Am Texas

1998 Muirfiled Villiage Club Champion

2000 Muirfield Village Club Champion

 

Basically, my golf accelerated to another level under Ballard tuteledge. In not a ball beater anymore but swing much better when I move thru the shot. I think the big diffference for me with Ballard fundys is the ball sounds different bc u I compress it now and ur playing partners have no clue how you do it. It takes commitment to change and when u try urold swing u find quickly the old ways suck.

 

There are much better resumes on this board than mine (some pga tour players) But, there may not be a more committed Ballard disciple here than me other than than 97Speeder

 

I am 56 and overcoming thumb surgery and love the prospects of this swing still performing better w age.

 

Imo

[Divot License]

Really enjoyed watching the debate video, I'd heard lots of things about it getting very heated and nasty but found it thoroughly civel and interesting. Both guys are clearly passionate about improving golfers which for me is the main thing. I don't think Flick was overly condesending and on many occasions agreed with Ballard.

 

My take away was that there isn't a huge difference in what they are actually trying to accomplish, it's just slightly different perpectives on how to do it. Flick wants to educate the hands first and then get the body to respond to that while Ballard wants the body to work correctly as that way the hands don't need much educating. Personally I think it's somewhere in the middle. I played mini tour golf for 4 years over a decade ago and have always felt my swing more with my hands than anything else. For me the swing has always had more conciousness in my arms than my body however during a round with my pro a few months ago he told me that my swing had many of the ballard fundamentals. So although my awareness is more in my hands when I swing I very much adhear to the ballard connection model.

[97speedster]

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[gsea33]

For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.

[bluedot]

For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.

 

Absolutely, and this is the misunderstanding about what Ballard means by "connection" when it comes to the right side. Connection the way he uses it doesn't mean that the right arm stays close to the body; connection refers to staying in powerful, athletic positions, which for the right side is a position similar to a baseball player getting ready to throw a ball. That's why the book has drawings of an electrical cord being plugged into a wall socket, or coming unplugged. That and the issue of swaying vs. coiling are the two great misunderstandings/misrepresentations of JB's work.

[Ayersjj]

For me the best thing to come out of the Ballard/Flick video was Jimmy's comment the left goes sideways and the right goes up. Simple has that.

 

I agree, my biggest error is to slide back instead of coiling as he mentioned. Then I have to lift the club which is a false coil. From their the lower body out races arms due to being disconnected and flippy the clown ? at the bottom. Recipe for hooks and weak wipes right.

[dodger]

About a year and a half ago I got pretty sick of dropping the club under and slinging hooks with the driver, hitting really crappy irons because I could not get the club down to the ball. I found an instructor in Minnesota who helps Rocco Mediate a little and he really got me on the right track, just by putting a water bottle inside the target line and telling me to stay outside of it both in the back and through swing. I found this thread and adopted some of the check list on the first page which also really helped. Last summer my ball striking was better than it has been in the last twenty years, confirmed by friends I have played with that long. I put the clubs away in October and did nothing but work on the wall drill and making sure the right shoulder goes up in the back swing. Last piece was setting the right foot to where it feels toed in. Two weeks ago I went on an annual golf trip to Arizona. We play the same courses every year. With a half hour warm up after not hitting a golf ball since October, I hit my first drive on an uphill 380 yard par four to 84 yards from the green. My only swing thought was left elbow down. I am hitting on average an additional five greens in regulation. In three days I had only one drive result in a penalty. My swing thoughts have simplified, I know what to do when I start dropping the club too in, and I can turn things around faster on the course. I give a lot of credit to this thread and Ballard, having re-read the book, gotten the connector and the glove and watched the video again. When his book came out in 1982, I bought it and misapplied the connection theory. I went short and flat. I then figured that being small and fast as opposed to Sutton or Lyle, the method was not right for my build. I am now convinced that Ballard's theories apply to everyone, it is really easy on the body. I am excited about the upcoming season and love being able to hit fairway woods off the turf consistently again. Work on chipping and bunker play is my focus this year. Ballard's theories will lower the handicap, I am convinced of it. Whether or not it will turn a tour player into a major winner, I could care less.

[Boise59]

Is JB currently working with any tour pros? As far as I know, Rocco was the last one. Also, which of today's tour players as a swing that most closely matches JBs teaching? I know some have mentioned Strenick. But, are there any others? Thanks.

 

I know one guy that said shoot me if I ever leave JB. If u watched the debate Flick alluded to Mark Omeara dropping his hands. Jimmy made it clear it might of been a feeling but if Omeara drops his hands arms hes done. Look at Suttons video pretty obviius imo he should go get some help from JB again.

https://www.golfchan...-tour-champions

 

Sadly Hal has gone away from a lot of the Ballard principles. He has a program where you can work with him in Texas for a day, but after a few oif the things he's posted on Instagram I have had second thoughts.

[bluedot]

Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgvfLLbE5c

 

I'm about half way thru watching the video; thank you so much for posting this.

 

I must say that Flick sort of lost my respect right off the bat by claiming that he has had more success with lesser players, and then at the beginning of the debate by complimenting Ballard on his work with better players, which carries the same implication that Ballard's method is good for better players but no so much for lesser players. If his life depended on it, Flick could never prove that claim, and it smacks of sort of a desperation tactic.

 

In addition to making a claim that, even if true, he couldn't possibly prove, while admitting that Ballard's better players have had better results, Flick is asking us to believe that it is easier to become consistent by using smaller muscles than bigger muscles, which I don't think is considered to be true in ANY sport. Flick's stuff about shorter swings is a red herring; you have to learn to play effectively with less than a full swing no matter what you are doing.

[LowAndLeft32]

It would be great if people could share their improvements using Ballard's method. I.E. went from this hdcp to this lower hdcp. Thanks.

 

I started working with Jimmy in 1995 and he changed my game around completely. The biggest difference to me was that when I was nervous and under intense pressure my game would not only hold up finally, but it would often times get better. Before I met Ballard, I was a great putter so I could get it going and make birdies, but then when the heat was on my swing wouldn't hold up and I kept coming up short. A year after I started working with Ballard I noticed a huge difference, especially under pressure.... in 1996 I finished top 10 on the Golden Bear Tour money list out of 150 players. I didn't win, but I knew I was finally on the right track.

 

In 1997 my confidence started to build and my goal was to start winning. I started to really see some amazing things happen when I was under pressure that year.... in July of 1997 I was playing a course in Sarasota in a big money game, back then $500 was a lot of money to be playing for . We teed off on the back nine and in the middle of the round I tied the Guinness Record with 9 birdies in a row.... after 4 or 5 birdies in a row you usually get nervous, but I started to see my swing hold up to these nerves and I beat my good friend Paul Azinger's course record by 3 shots that day and it still stands after 22 years. My eagle putt on the last hole (#9) did a 360 around the cup from 20 feet which would of given me a 59 (-13). Azinger was actually the one who got me to go see Ballard back in 1995; he said to me, "I've seen a lot of players make teachers careers, Leadbetter didn't make Faldo, Faldo made Leadbetter! I've only seen two teachers who made players careers, John Redman and Jimmy Ballard. I witnessed Sutton and Strange's get better under Ballard so you should go see him." Paul was right, and even he went to see Ballard in the early 2000's before he had his motorcycle wreck that made him stop competing.

 

A few weeks after I shot my course record, I shot 69-66-67 for a 202 (-14) to win by 5 shots on the Golden Bear Tour at The Loxahatchee Club, an extremely tough Jack Nicklaus Signature Design. Shooting 67 in very windy conditions the final round under pressure really proved to me that what JB teaches works, especially under pressure. I shot -5 and missed at 2nd stage of Q School by a shot that fall, and unfortunately didn't putt my best that week, but that year really proved to me that JB's teaching worked.

 

In 1998 I met my wife, the next 4 events after meeting her I finished in the top 5 four weeks in a row and for whatever reason I ended up getting the chip and pitch yips about a month after that. I soon started to lose interest in all the traveling and wanted to be home with her and then quit golf for 8 years, mostly due to losing interest after getting the yips with my short game, but I could still putt. I had no interest in playing golf with the yips, and then I invented a training aid that cured my yips, it's called the YipDoc and it suddenly brought back my interest in golf again. Now I'm 51, got my amateur status back and started playing a lot more golf again and competing in tournaments. My goal now is to win the US Senior Amateur after I turn 55. I reconnected (pun intended ) with Ballard after my hiatus and have been seeing him once a month for the last year and a half now and golf is fun again.... hence, sharing his philosophy on the golf swing with all of you.

 

Even at 51, I'm still trying to get better, and I'm not much different than all of you; I just love golf and like to have a game that can travel .

 

 

 

 

Great story DJ! Nine birdies in a row? Thanks incredible!!! :golfer: Thanks for sharing this and all your knowledge of JB's method. Sure wish I had your game, lived in Southern FL, and had an opportunity to work with JB monthly!! Wishing you the best in your pursuit of the senior Am trophy!

[Ayersjj]

Here is the video of Jimmy Ballard debating with Jim Flick of the body swinging the club versus the arms and the hands. There are swings of some of Jimmy's students in the video including Hal Sutton, Curtis Strange and Jim Colbert. The video is 46 minutes total time, and packed full of great info, enjoy!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgvfLLbE5c

 

I'm about half way thru watching the video; thank you so much for posting this.

 

I must say that Flick sort of lost my respect right off the bat by claiming that he has had more success with lesser players, and then at the beginning of the debate by complimenting Ballard on his work with better players, which carries the same implication that Ballard's method is good for better players but no so much for lesser players. If his life depended on it, Flick could never prove that claim, and it smacks of sort of a desperation tactic.

 

In addition to making a claim that, even if true, he couldn't possibly prove, while admitting that Ballard's better players have had better results, Flick is asking us to believe that it is easier to become consistent by using smaller muscles than bigger muscles, which I don't think is considered to be true in ANY sport. Flick's stuff about shorter swings is a red herring; you have to learn to play effectively with less than a full swing no matter what you are doing.

 

Im surprised they didnt have Haney or Ledbetter to come in after JB shut Flick up with the impact bag horses s***. Ballard would have taken them all out to the wood shed.

[dodger]

On the front page of this site, is a lesson with Leadbetter. About 3/4 of the way through, he tells the student he does not like the term turn to describe the backswing motion. He prefers coil. That sounds familiar, maybe he watched the debate too.

[Boise59]

On the front page of this site, is a lesson with Leadbetter. About 3/4 of the way through, he tells the student he does not like the term turn to describe the backswing motion. He prefers coil. That sounds familiar, maybe he watched the debate too.

 

 

Read Leadbetter's original book written in 1991. Full of Ballard terms including "the Dog Wags The Tail" and "Load Up"...BTW Jimmy wrote his book in 1981!

[bluedot]

The Ballard-Flick debate is basically Flick bringing a knife to a gun fight. I was almost embarrassed for Flick, really.

 

Ballard could not have been more consistent in what he was saying during the "debate", just like he couldn't have been more consistent with what he has been teaching over the last 40+ years since the book came out.

 

Here's the bottom line, at least to me: Ballard's method is a great way to play the game injury-free and under pressure. Flick has been all over the map during his career, and has ridden the coattails of a business relationship with Jack Nicklaus.

[97speedster]

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[dodger]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

[Ayersjj]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

 

JB always told me soft arms. Never focused on hands other than opposing each other. Again, JB brings u bak to focusing on bigger muscles vs hands. Soft arms create soft hands but the attention is on the arms bc hands will follow

[bluedot]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

 

JB always told me soft arms. Never focused on hands other than opposing each other. Again, JB brings u bak to focusing on bigger muscles vs hands. Soft arms create soft hands but the attention is on the arms bc hands will follow

 

Correct; it is literally impossible to have soft arms and hold the club too tightly.

 

Fwiw, the soft arms thing is an overlooked part of the JB stuff. Golfers talk all the time about turning the wrists over, but the wrist does NOT turn that way; the two bones in the forearm do that if ALLOWED to. You don't have to make your wrists/forearms turn over; this happens naturally if you let it. But get your arms tensed up, and it doesn't happen; the usual result is a block.

 

You can c0ck your wrist up and down, and you can pronate or supinate your wrist independently, but you cannot "turn it over". Soft arms from the elbows down allows the forearms to work in a natural rotation to release the club. I haven't had the good fortune to work with JB, but I've worked with two guys he trained, and this was a very big deal with both of them, and one of the easiest things (at least for me) to forget about.

[Ayersjj]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

 

JB always told me soft arms. Never focused on hands other than opposing each other. Again, JB brings u bak to focusing on bigger muscles vs hands. Soft arms create soft hands but the attention is on the arms bc hands will follow

 

Correct; it is literally impossible to have soft arms and hold the club too tightly.

 

Fwiw, the soft arms thing is an overlooked part of the JB stuff. Golfers talk all the time about turning the wrists over, but the wrist does NOT turn that way; the two bones in the forearm do that if ALLOWED to. You don't have to make your wrists/forearms turn over; this happens naturally if you let it. But get your arms tensed up, and it doesn't happen; the usual result is a block.

 

You can c0ck your wrist up and down, and you can pronate or supinate your wrist independently, but you cannot "turn it over". Soft arms from the elbows down allows the forearms to work in a natural rotation to release the club. I haven't had the good fortune to work with JB, but I've worked with two guys he trained, and this was a very big deal with both of them, and one of the easiest things (at least for me) to forget about.

 

One of Colberts thoughts is to not change the relationship of the arms at address. This means the inner force and outter force never change in relation to the address position. When u mention natural rotation you lost me. If u keep center moving and the club comes vertical on backswing and in follow thru w center moving swing I dont see any rotation. Its a pure pivot from inside right foot to outside left toe. Imo, this is a deal breaker with some that want to rotate arms for more distance but it changes the address position. Do the center drill hip high to hip high there is

 

NO ROTATION of arms >>>>Hal Sutton explains https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-hands-position-full-swing

 

My explanation. >> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNCGzIte0Ww

[Ayersjj]

DJ,

Looks like Sutton has a flip going in his new comeback swing. I know that move too well. Seems like hes trying to do it w his hands and arms is a big red flag. Im going to SAS this year in Cary NC. Hope he goes bak to Jimmy and make this a successful comebak. Either way Im rooting for him, always loved his and Curtis Ballard swings.

 

Suttons new swing thoughts on transition Yikes!!

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/hal-sutton-swing-changes-comeback-pga-tour-champions

[97speedster]

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[97speedster]

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[bluedot]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

 

JB always told me soft arms. Never focused on hands other than opposing each other. Again, JB brings u bak to focusing on bigger muscles vs hands. Soft arms create soft hands but the attention is on the arms bc hands will follow

 

Correct; it is literally impossible to have soft arms and hold the club too tightly.

 

Fwiw, the soft arms thing is an overlooked part of the JB stuff. Golfers talk all the time about turning the wrists over, but the wrist does NOT turn that way; the two bones in the forearm do that if ALLOWED to. You don't have to make your wrists/forearms turn over; this happens naturally if you let it. But get your arms tensed up, and it doesn't happen; the usual result is a block.

 

You can c0ck your wrist up and down, and you can pronate or supinate your wrist independently, but you cannot "turn it over". Soft arms from the elbows down allows the forearms to work in a natural rotation to release the club. I haven't had the good fortune to work with JB, but I've worked with two guys he trained, and this was a very big deal with both of them, and one of the easiest things (at least for me) to forget about.

 

One of Colberts thoughts is to not change the relationship of the arms at address. This means the inner force and outter force never change in relation to the address position. When u mention natural rotation you lost me. If u keep center moving and the club comes vertical on backswing and in follow thru w center moving swing I dont see any rotation. Its a pure pivot from inside right foot to outside left toe. Imo, this is a deal breaker with some that want to rotate arms for more distance but it changes the address position. Do the center drill hip high to hip high there is

 

NO ROTATION of arms >>>>Hal Sutton explains https://www.golfchan...tion-full-swing

 

My explanation. >> https://m.youtube.co...h?v=tNCGzIte0Ww

 

Maybe this will be a better explanation of what I was trying to say earlier.

 

With your left arm held out in front of your and with your elbow bent, you can c0ck your wrist up and down, or you can move the back of your hand either to the right or the left. But you cannot rotate the back of your hand up or down using your wrist; it's the forearm that makes that motion not the wrist, and that's the desired motion to release the arms and club in a golf swing. The cool part is that your elbow is pointed down the entire time that is happening; it's a completely natural motion IF your forearms are relaxed and you allow it to happen.

 

Now hold your left forearm tightly with your right hand just above the wrist toward the elbow, and then try to turn (or rotate) your wrist over. Not only will you have almost no motion in the wrist, but you'll clearly feel that it's the two bones in the forearm that are doing the turning, and not the wrist itself. Which one reason, though not the only one, that "soft arms" is so important.

 

Hope I did that better.

[gsea33]

I'm assuming that these videos are the same just different covers anyone know for sure.

[Ayersjj]

For those of you who have worked with Jimmy I have a grip pressure question. I took a lesson some years ago and the teacher had me hold the club with no pressure in my fingers at all. The only hand pressure I felt was at the joining of the hands on top of the club. The pressure went down into the grip rather than the fingers pulling up as is usually taught. I hit the longest five iron I ever hit at this lesson but was unable to duplicate it consistently. I then read a book by instructor Kip Puterbaugh that talks about getting a lesson from Ballard who taught him this same grip pressure thought. Has Jimmy worked on this with any of you and if so, is it one of his "fundamentals"? It is not in his book or video. thanks

 

I've talked to Jimmy about grip pressure..... it's unrealistic to hold the club that loose, you want the arms to be relaxed, but grip pressure is going to change from one shot to another and one circumstance to another.

 

DJ, just did this video of my swing 5 minutes ago. My practice swing looks collapsed but realtime seems ok. Working on getting to left toe since my tendency is to hang bak and flip. Cheers

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s2RSkG1rRAA&feature=youtu.be

[LowAndLeft32]

DJ an others that are using the Ballard method. What one thing or things best helps to learn the Ballard swing? Is it the swing shirt, medicine ball, both, or something else? Thanks.

[Boise59]

DJ an others that are using the Ballard method. What one thing or things best helps to learn the Ballard swing? Is it the swing shirt, medicine ball, both, or something else? Thanks.

 

For me the Swing Shirt is the best.....helps me get my posture up and keep my right arm higher than my left. It's also awesome for short shots and putting.

[LowAndLeft32]

DJ an others that are using the Ballard method. What one thing or things best helps to learn the Ballard swing? Is it the swing shirt, medicine ball, both, or something else? Thanks.

 

For me the Swing Shirt is the best.....helps me get my posture up and keep my right arm higher than my left. It's also awesome for short shots and putting.

 

 

Thanks GGpro. Are you an instructor? Do you teach the Ballard method?