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Future of Golf: Tech v. Tradition


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I know this is definitely not the first (or the last) time this subject has been brought up, but I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game. I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense). There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

 

That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

 

Should courses become longer?

Should fairways become tighter?

Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

 

In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players? Maybe it's not the courses anymore and it's the field that will pose the greatest threat.. who knows!

 

 

I'm sure I'm being ignorant of a lot of things, but would love to hear everyone's thoughts!

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

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Speaking to the amateurs, if you want you can still practice tradition over technology. Personally, I have two sets of clubs; one modern and one traditional (70's era blades and persimmons). I spend the majority of the season playing the traditional set, and I find golf much more interesting because of it.

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I suspect golf took a long time to become a truly developed sport wherein expert-level coaching and specific kinds of training are the norm for the game's elite players. It took awhile for people to figure out what was happening in the swing, let alone how to convey those same principles to other people on a regular basis. But today, the game's top players swing the club in near-textbook fashion.

 

What's more, the majority of these players have been involved with golf their entire lives. And as a result, all of them can hit it long as a matter of course. It's just evolution that the game will go from a few great players to an entire field of guys who are incredible and that over time, the game will find longer and longer hitters. You'll still have an "elite" group at the top but you can't hope to put the competition genie back in the bottle once people see ways to beat their competitors and a natural path starts getting beaten down leading to what is considered "optimal."

 

Instead of looking at the current era and thinking 'this isn't golf,' maybe we should marvel at how long it took for big hitters to emerge and establish their place? How do you defeat a big hitter who's also a good wedge player as well as a good putter? The only hope you have is being a reasonably long hitter yourself who's basically making everything on the greens!

 

Why shouldn't someone who possesses the ability to bomb it 350 off the tee in a straight line have a massive advantage? Why shouldn't that player hit irons into Par-5's and wedges into Par-4's? I know that it seems inherently unjust for there not to be some way that the short hitters can more easily offset their disadvantage but that's just how it goes. All other things being equal, the guy who hits it longer is objectively better.

 

 

Right now, the tour tricks out the greens. It makes getting up and down extra-ordinarily difficult. You can narrow the fairways and deepen the rough but I'm not sure who that's going to punish--the weak or the strong. If we have US Open conditions every week, the Dustin Johnsons are just going to hit 1- and 2-irons to the same spot as other guys are hitting driver and 3w. The LPGA is already in this position. The #1 female golfer in the world doesn't even carry a driver because she doesn't need it. She hits her 3w as far as the longest hitters and routinely hit's UDI's off the tee.

 

But at the same time there are plenty of normal-length players who makes tons of money. How about Lydia Ko who domianted the LPGA a short time ago? How about Rickie Fowler who's clearly not hurting? How about Francisco Molinari who won the Open? How about YJS who won the Masters?

 

I just don't see what the fuss is about. We see all sorts of winners. When a big-hitter wins we hear complaints about distance. Why not a little more admiration for what physical gifts these guys have and how golf has finally arrived such that we don't have guys out there who look like they sit in the cubicle next to me on their off days!

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Let’s make short hitting amateurs hit even shorter that’s bound to grow the game

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We have had a couple of quantum leaps in distance improving clubs and balls over the last 25 years and as a 67 year old I am still on the same tees that I was at age 40 when I started - for me it is great. I do believe however that with the USGA restrictions we are pretty much maxed out from a pure equipment perspective. However, you cannot regulate the fitness, strength, and technique of today's pro golfers. I would leave today's equipment as is and for pro tournaments I would concentrate on the course - heavy rough, fairways that are not like most greens, and some additional water and sand into play. As someone mentioned above, the recent Arnold Palmer at Bay Hill had enough length to challenge the big boys with difficult rough protecting greens and plenty of water and sand on even the shortest par 4's.

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Thanks for the insight! I enjoyed the quick answer on Fred, haha.

 

The statements were actually excerpts from the book "The Match" by Mark Frost. It briefly noted on the "Re-Match" (2012: Davis Love & Nick Watney v. Rickie Fowler & Bubba Watson) that despite the technology obviously improving since the 1950s, the course was still a more than formidable opponent for today's Tour players.

 

I'm also curious what you mean by dialing the ball back. Are you referring the the tech in balls or physically starting the balls further back? Sorry for the confusion!

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I suspect golf took a long time to become a truly developed sport wherein expert-level coaching and specific kinds of training are the norm for the game's elite players. It took awhile for people to figure out what was happening in the swing, let alone how to convey those same principles to other people on a regular basis. But today, the game's top players swing the club in near-textbook fashion.

 

What's more, the majority of these players have been involved with golf their entire lives. And as a result, all of them can hit it long as a matter of course. It's just evolution that the game will go from a few great players to an entire field of guys who are incredible and that over time, the game will find longer and longer hitters. You'll still have an "elite" group at the top but you can't hope to put the competition genie back in the bottle once people see ways to beat their competitors and a natural path starts getting beaten down leading to what is considered "optimal."

 

Instead of looking at the current era and thinking 'this isn't golf,' maybe we should marvel at how long it took for big hitters to emerge and establish their place? How do you defeat a big hitter who's also a good wedge player as well as a good putter? The only hope you have is being a reasonably long hitter yourself who's basically making everything on the greens!

 

Why shouldn't someone who possesses the ability to bomb it 350 off the tee in a straight line have a massive advantage? Why shouldn't that player hit irons into Par-5's and wedges into Par-4's? I know that it seems inherently unjust for there not to be some way that the short hitters can more easily offset their disadvantage but that's just how it goes. All other things being equal, the guy who hits it longer is objectively better.

 

 

Right now, the tour tricks out the greens. It makes getting up and down extra-ordinarily difficult. You can narrow the fairways and deepen the rough but I'm not sure who that's going to punish--the weak or the strong. If we have US Open conditions every week, the Dustin Johnsons are just going to hit 1- and 2-irons to the same spot as other guys are hitting driver and 3w. The LPGA is already in this position. The #1 female golfer in the world doesn't even carry a driver because she doesn't need it. She hits her 3w as far as the longest hitters and routinely hit's UDI's off the tee.

 

But at the same time there are plenty of normal-length players who makes tons of money. How about Lydia Ko who domianted the LPGA a short time ago? How about Rickie Fowler who's clearly not hurting? How about Francisco Molinari who won the Open? How about YJS who won the Masters?

 

I just don't see what the fuss is about. We see all sorts of winners. When a big-hitter wins we hear complaints about distance. Why not a little more admiration for what physical gifts these guys have and how golf has finally arrived such that we don't have guys out there who look like they sit in the cubicle next to me on their off days!

 

Oh, yeah you bring up a ton of good points! Just to be clear, I'm definitely not trying to rip apart the tech or the big hitters on tour. I was just curious what others thought because I know it can be a bit of a debate/fire starter, haha. But, yeah even Matt Kuchar winning a few events in the last few months have been a testament to "distance" not always being king.

 

I feel like we can even look at this past Ryder Cup where the U.S. bombers were rendered useless.

 

Thanks for the insight!

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is "marketing gibberish."

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Let's make short hitting amateurs hit even shorter that's bound to grow the game

 

Haha! Sigh..

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We have had a couple of quantum leaps in distance improving clubs and balls over the last 25 years and as a 67 year old I am still on the same tees that I was at age 40 when I started - for me it is great. I do believe however that with the USGA restrictions we are pretty much maxed out from a pure equipment perspective. However, you cannot regulate the fitness, strength, and technique of today's pro golfers. I would leave today's equipment as is and for pro tournaments I would concentrate on the course - heavy rough, fairways that are not like most greens, and some additional water and sand into play. As someone mentioned above, the recent Arnold Palmer at Bay Hill had enough length to challenge the big boys with difficult rough protecting greens and plenty of water and sand on even the shortest par 4's.

 

Yeah, that's definitely something I wasn't really taking into consideration when posting the original question. The fitness and athleticism of today's Tour players is on a totally different level from amateurs AND the Tour players of yesteryear. As a huge NBA fan, it kind of reminds me of how the 3-pt shot has evolved over the last few years. The range is getting further, the dunks are higher, etc.

 

Great insight!

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Thanks for the insight! I enjoyed the quick answer on Fred, haha.

 

The statements were actually excerpts from the book "The Match" by Mark Frost. It briefly noted on the "Re-Match" (2012: Davis Love & Nick Watney v. Rickie Fowler & Bubba Watson) that despite the technology obviously improving since the 1950s, the course was still a more than formidable opponent for today's Tour players.

 

I'm also curious what you mean by dialing the ball back. Are you referring the the tech in balls or physically starting the balls further back? Sorry for the confusion!

 

 

 

It's rumored Fred Couples once said the word ascertain.

Enough said.

 

 

Dial back the technology. It's the easiest and most cost effective way to make things "fair" for everyone.

 

Wouldn’t you feel better buying golf balls that are fitted for you?

 

How many times have you stood in the golf shop and looked at the back panel of a box of balls and find yourself memorized by pictures of ball flights and lots of empty promises?

Don’t lie, we all read the boxes and think the ball could do more for us. But let’s face the facts - the back of the box is nothing but lies.

 

 

Now imagine buying balls like you do pants (not shorts).

Let’s say your size for pants is 34 x 32, so you walk up to the display for pants and pluck off a pair of 34 x 32 and chances are pretty good they will fit.

 

 

Now apply it to golf balls. The customer needs three pieces of information:

 

Average length off tee with driver x Average length with 7 iron x Average score

 

A: 300+ x 170+ x <70

B: 290 x 165 x 74

C: 280 x 160 x 79

D: 260 x 150 x 80

E: 250 x 140 x 85

F: 240 x 130 x 90

G: <240 x <130 x 95

 

 

A >>>>>>>ball gets hotter>>>>>>G

 

 

Average length off tee with driver: 240

Average length with 7 iron: 140

Average score: 83

 

 

This player would fall in the E product range.

 

 

You can eliminate the sandbaggers by looking at the letter designation on their ball.

If you run into a guy claiming to be a 15 and he’s playing a “G” ball, you can call him out as a liar.

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That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

 

Should courses become longer?

Should fairways become tighter?

Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

 

PGA Tour winning scores have not been going down, so whatever the courses are doing is working.

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Thanks for the insight! I enjoyed the quick answer on Fred, haha.

 

The statements were actually excerpts from the book "The Match" by Mark Frost. It briefly noted on the "Re-Match" (2012: Davis Love & Nick Watney v. Rickie Fowler & Bubba Watson) that despite the technology obviously improving since the 1950s, the course was still a more than formidable opponent for today's Tour players.

 

I'm also curious what you mean by dialing the ball back. Are you referring the the tech in balls or physically starting the balls further back? Sorry for the confusion!

 

 

 

It's rumored Fred Couples once said the word ascertain.

Enough said.

 

 

Dial back the technology. It's the easiest and most cost effective way to make things "fair" for everyone.

 

Wouldn’t you feel better buying golf balls that are fitted for you?

 

How many times have you stood in the golf shop and looked at the back panel of a box of balls and find yourself memorized by pictures of ball flights and lots of empty promises?

Don’t lie, we all read the boxes and think the ball could do more for us. But let’s face the facts - the back of the box is nothing but lies.

 

 

Now imagine buying balls like you do pants (not shorts).

Let’s say your size for pants is 34 x 32, so you walk up to the display for pants and pluck off a pair of 34 x 32 and chances are pretty good they will fit.

 

 

Now apply it to golf balls. The customer needs three pieces of information:

 

Average length off tee with driver x Average length with 7 iron x Average score

 

A: 300+ x 170+ x <70

B: 290 x 165 x 74

C: 280 x 160 x 79

D: 260 x 150 x 80

E: 250 x 140 x 85

F: 240 x 130 x 90

G: <240 x <130 x 95

 

 

A >>>>>>>ball gets hotter>>>>>>G

 

 

Average length off tee with driver: 240

Average length with 7 iron: 140

Average score: 83

 

 

This player would fall in the E product range.

 

 

You can eliminate the sandbaggers by looking at the letter designation on their ball.

If you run into a guy claiming to be a 15 and he’s playing a “G” ball, you can call him out as a liar.

 

Dang, this would be a crazy system, haha. I see how this would work and kind of set up tiers to each golfer, but at the same time (playing devil's advocate), what about feeling too restricted? Golf is such a weird game of balancing regulations and what is permitted versus not, haha.

 

But, dude, loving the thinking surrounding the ball. First time I've heard of a system like that!

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Thanks for the insight! I enjoyed the quick answer on Fred, haha.

 

The statements were actually excerpts from the book "The Match" by Mark Frost. It briefly noted on the "Re-Match" (2012: Davis Love & Nick Watney v. Rickie Fowler & Bubba Watson) that despite the technology obviously improving since the 1950s, the course was still a more than formidable opponent for today's Tour players.

 

I'm also curious what you mean by dialing the ball back. Are you referring the the tech in balls or physically starting the balls further back? Sorry for the confusion!

 

 

 

It's rumored Fred Couples once said the word ascertain.

Enough said.

 

 

Dial back the technology. It's the easiest and most cost effective way to make things "fair" for everyone.

 

Wouldn’t you feel better buying golf balls that are fitted for you?

 

How many times have you stood in the golf shop and looked at the back panel of a box of balls and find yourself memorized by pictures of ball flights and lots of empty promises?

Don’t lie, we all read the boxes and think the ball could do more for us. But let’s face the facts - the back of the box is nothing but lies.

 

 

Now imagine buying balls like you do pants (not shorts).

Let’s say your size for pants is 34 x 32, so you walk up to the display for pants and pluck off a pair of 34 x 32 and chances are pretty good they will fit.

 

 

Now apply it to golf balls. The customer needs three pieces of information:

 

Average length off tee with driver x Average length with 7 iron x Average score

 

A: 300+ x 170+ x <70

B: 290 x 165 x 74

C: 280 x 160 x 79

D: 260 x 150 x 80

E: 250 x 140 x 85

F: 240 x 130 x 90

G: <240 x <130 x 95

 

 

A >>>>>>>ball gets hotter>>>>>>G

 

 

Average length off tee with driver: 240

Average length with 7 iron: 140

Average score: 83

 

 

This player would fall in the E product range.

 

 

You can eliminate the sandbaggers by looking at the letter designation on their ball.

If you run into a guy claiming to be a 15 and he’s playing a “G” ball, you can call him out as a liar.

 

Dang, this would be a crazy system, haha. I see how this would work and kind of set up tiers to each golfer, but at the same time (playing devil's advocate), what about feeling too restricted? Golf is such a weird game of balancing regulations and what is permitted versus not, haha.

 

But, dude, loving the thinking surrounding the ball. First time I've heard of a system like that!

 

 

It's not restricted. You can play whatever ball you want - it's about being an "honest" player.

 

Just think about the look on a guy's face (who claims to be "scratch") when you bend over, look down and see he's playing an F ball.

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I thought Bayhill was a good test with thick rough and tough pins. Winning scores between 8 and 12 under are indicative of a tough but fair layout to me. Birdie fests can be fun to watch, but I'm a fan of a layout that keeps the short knockers in the game.

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It's a wonderful time of day for another episode of post breakdown from Ferg.

 

 

 

Re: I'm curious what y'all think about the increase in technology in golf clubs and how it's affecting the professional game.

I am not a professional. As an amateur – I love it. However, I do realize 50% of the tech gains is “marketing gibberish.”

 

 

Re: I know Fred Couples voiced his opinion about this saying something along the lines of how golf was being ruined (in a sense).

Fred is not a bright guy.

 

 

Re: There's also been statements that courses that were well designed (e.g. Cypress) withstood the test of time and still poses great challenge for even the longest of hitters.

What statements? Who said this?

 

 

Re: That being said, there must be a break point where the courses just aren't long enough to continue to pose a challenge for Tour players.

Marketing, advertising and the insatiable desire for more tour cash will ensure there will never be a break point.

 

 

Re: Should courses become longer?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should fairways become tighter?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

Re: Should there be more hazards/obstacles?

No. Dial back the ball.

 

 

Re: In short, how do courses keep up with the technology and remain challenging for Tour players?

Tour players, at their best, can shot a 65 at any course. I still have yet to see a competitive round with a player making 18 straight birdies.

 

Thanks for the insight! I enjoyed the quick answer on Fred, haha.

 

The statements were actually excerpts from the book "The Match" by Mark Frost. It briefly noted on the "Re-Match" (2012: Davis Love & Nick Watney v. Rickie Fowler & Bubba Watson) that despite the technology obviously improving since the 1950s, the course was still a more than formidable opponent for today's Tour players.

 

I'm also curious what you mean by dialing the ball back. Are you referring the the tech in balls or physically starting the balls further back? Sorry for the confusion!

 

 

 

It's rumored Fred Couples once said the word ascertain.

Enough said.

 

 

Dial back the technology. It's the easiest and most cost effective way to make things "fair" for everyone.

 

Wouldn’t you feel better buying golf balls that are fitted for you?

 

How many times have you stood in the golf shop and looked at the back panel of a box of balls and find yourself memorized by pictures of ball flights and lots of empty promises?

Don’t lie, we all read the boxes and think the ball could do more for us. But let’s face the facts - the back of the box is nothing but lies.

 

 

Now imagine buying balls like you do pants (not shorts).

Let’s say your size for pants is 34 x 32, so you walk up to the display for pants and pluck off a pair of 34 x 32 and chances are pretty good they will fit.

 

 

Now apply it to golf balls. The customer needs three pieces of information:

 

Average length off tee with driver x Average length with 7 iron x Average score

 

A: 300+ x 170+ x <70

B: 290 x 165 x 74

C: 280 x 160 x 79

D: 260 x 150 x 80

E: 250 x 140 x 85

F: 240 x 130 x 90

G: <240 x <130 x 95

 

 

A >>>>>>>ball gets hotter>>>>>>G

 

 

Average length off tee with driver: 240

Average length with 7 iron: 140

Average score: 83

 

 

This player would fall in the E product range.

 

 

You can eliminate the sandbaggers by looking at the letter designation on their ball.

If you run into a guy claiming to be a 15 and he’s playing a “G” ball, you can call him out as a liar.

 

Dang, this would be a crazy system, haha. I see how this would work and kind of set up tiers to each golfer, but at the same time (playing devil's advocate), what about feeling too restricted? Golf is such a weird game of balancing regulations and what is permitted versus not, haha.

 

But, dude, loving the thinking surrounding the ball. First time I've heard of a system like that!

 

 

It's not restricted. You can play whatever ball you want - it's about being an "honest" player.

 

Just think about the look on a guy's face (who claims to be "scratch") when you bend over, look down and see he's playing an F ball.

 

There’s a large group now that aren’t honest. Look at courses and see playing wrong tees, ill fitted equipment and so on.

 

Golf for many amateurs is about fun an enjoying company of their friends.

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Equipment will never be rolled back. Too much money at stake.

 

How would you like to me a marketing VP at Titleist and get the assignment to develop a marketing campaign for a new ball that flies 20% shorter, or a new driver that is a lot harder to hit?

 

The industry is based on marketing that uses the professional tour as a way to sell dreams to the average hacker. As long a golfers believe that they can buy a better game thru equipment, manufacturers will find ways to let the pros hit it better and make the amateur believe that technology improvements will transfer to him.

 

The USGA and R&A could have controlled distance increases long ago, but declined due to pressure and threats from the equipment industry. Distance improvement will continue. Other restrictions will also be dropped. GPS and distance measuring devices. for example. Can green-reading devices be next?

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The thing most people miss in the "roll back the ball" debate is the faster swinging players see a massive gain with the newer ball technology where the average slower swinger barely sees any gains. You really have to swing over 100-105 mph to see major benefits. The idea of rolling back the ball is that it would barely effect the weekend player and slower swinger but would have a big effect on the super fast swinging player. The idea is to decrease the delta between the long hitter and short hitter. Not even close to the same as going back to hickory. This would make more players more competitive and keep many more courses relevant for top level play.

FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
Ari Techner
National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
[email protected]
IG: @nationalcustom
Twitter: @WorksNational
(still a huge club HO)

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The thing most people miss in the "roll back the ball" debate is the faster swinging players see a massive gain with the newer ball technology where the average slower swinger barely sees any gains. You really have to swing over 100-105 mph to see major benefits. The idea of rolling back the ball is that it would barely effect the weekend player and slower swinger but would have a big effect on the super fast swinging player. The idea is to decrease the delta between the long hitter and short hitter. Not even close to the same as going back to hickory. This would make more players more competitive and keep many more courses relevant for top level play.

 

Explain to me the physics behind this delta

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Technology moves on. Worrying about the old golf courses becoming obsolete is foolish. Let the Senior tour and LPGA play the older courses that are maxed out yardage wise. The PGA Tour can play newer courses. Compare with baseball for example. The new parks being built are bigger because the players are stronger - just like current pro golfers.

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The idea is to decrease the delta between the long hitter and short hitter.

 

Whose idea is that? I doubt that many would agree.

 

Many people have come out in favor of rolling back the ball. Including Nicklaus, Palmer, Tiger and other top golf figures. I'm not sure it will ever happen but there is plenty of support for the idea. The other idea thrown around is bifurcation where the pros play w different equipment. This is what Tiger supports, roll back ball for pros keep juiced ball for Ams. Will be interesting to see if something happens w this I believe it's now or never and I know the USGA has indicated more than once they are working on a decision.

FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
Ari Techner
National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
[email protected]
IG: @nationalcustom
Twitter: @WorksNational
(still a huge club HO)

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Technology moves on. Worrying about the old golf courses becoming obsolete is foolish. Let the Senior tour and LPGA play the older courses that are maxed out yardage wise. The PGA Tour can play newer courses. Compare with baseball for example. The new parks being built are bigger because the players are stronger - just like current pro golfers.

 

Part of the issue is new courses are becoming obsolete too. Dr Mike Hurdzan told me at the 2013 Presidents Cup that he was super excited about Erin Hills getting the US Open and how he had designed a par 5 finishing hole that is uphill and almost 700y that the pros won't be able to hit in 2. A few years later the pros regularly hit that green in 2 I specifically recall Rickie Fowler hitting it with a long iron.

 

Another example after the 2017 PGA they interviewed Dustin Johnson who was complaining about one of the par 4 holes that forced a layup off the tee and forced him to hit 4 iron into the green each day. He made the comment that it was THE FIRST TIME ALL YEAR he had a hit a club longer than a 6 iron into a green on a par 4.

 

FREE AGENT CLUB HO NO MO!
Ari Techner
National Custom Works nationalcustomworks.com
[email protected]
IG: @nationalcustom
Twitter: @WorksNational
(still a huge club HO)

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Technology moves on. Worrying about the old golf courses becoming obsolete is foolish. Let the Senior tour and LPGA play the older courses that are maxed out yardage wise. The PGA Tour can play newer courses. Compare with baseball for example. The new parks being built are bigger because the players are stronger - just like current pro golfers.

 

Part of the issue is new courses are becoming obsolete too. Dr Mike Hurdzan told me at the 2013 Presidents Cup that he was super excited about Erin Hills getting the US Open and how he had designed a par 5 finishing hole that is uphill and almost 700y that the pros won't be able to hit in 2. A few years later the pros regularly hit that green in 2 I specifically recall Rickie Fowler hitting it with a long iron.

 

Another example after the 2017 PGA they interviewed Dustin Johnson who was complaining about one of the par 4 holes that forced a layup off the tee and forced him to hit 4 iron into the green each day. He made the comment that it was THE FIRST TIME ALL YEAR he had a hit a club longer than a 6 iron into a green on a par 4.

 

If you understand course design then you understand how someone reaches a 700 yd par 5 in two. Don't make it a million yards downhill and don't make it rock hard and no one will ever reach in two unless it's downwind.

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