We have launched our new enhanced Editor. There is an overview and tutorial Here.

2019 - Recent Sub-460cc drivers

 bulls9999 ·  
bulls9999bulls9999 GHIN Index = 12.8 862Members Posts: 862
Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 9:34am in Equipment #1
OK, I find myself only able to hit sub-460cc drivers; I know I'm not the only one as this is a recurring topic. Currently love my Cally Optiforce 440 (I'm also left-handed).



Can anyone add to this list? Callaway has seemingly abandoned us in the sub-460cc category.



Callaway

- Optiforce, 440cc

- XR16 Pro, 440cc

- XR Pro, 440cc



Titleist

- 917D3 (440)

- 915D3 (440)



Ping:

- G410 plus (455cc)

- G410 SFT (455)

- G400 (445)

- G400 LST (445)

- G400 SFT (445)



Taylormade

- M5 Tour (435cc, RH only)

- M3 440 (RH only)

- M1 440 (RH only)

- r11 TP (440cc) - LH

- r7 limited (2008)(440cc) - LH



Mizuno

- JPX-850 (440cc)
Posted:
GHIN Index 13.8
«1
2

Comments

  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #2
    I'm with you 100%



    I've always liked the smaller head shape of a driver. 460cc no matter what tech or eye- trickerey is used to make it look small, well..... doesn't work for me.



    Until the G400, the smaller drivers were usually less forgiving... (sldr, all the other TM 440's and even the Titleist)



    G400 has been easily the driver to fit my eye the best. Hit a buddy's Cobra F9 the other day since the hype around it has been so real. It looks good, and performed well for the few passes I made at it. I just couldn't get over the club head size.



    Hoping the g400 goes full closeout in a few months so I can pick up 1 or 2 backup heads as I am not a fan of how the G410+ looks and i dont see more 440cc-445cc heads coming back anytime soon.



    I will say though, as a fast swinger, I have cracked 2 Ping g400 drivers on the face. Both times were replaced almost no questions asked. The head just looks A+ to me and so do my numbers and ball flight. Could I find something more forgiving with a bigger head size? Probably. Hit a G400 Max to see what the hype was about and couldn't stand the size of it regardless of how it performed.



    Looks like the G400 will be in the bag for a LONG while...
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • bulls9999bulls9999 GHIN Index = 12.8 862Members Posts: 862
    Joined:  #3
    I'm with you. Was wanting a 'backup' 2nd 440ish driver. I currently have a Cally Optiforce 440/LH and can get another on the bay for ~$50 and was thinking of a newer Cally, perhaps XR16 Pro, but don't know why there's so few of them available and the ones that are around $175-ish, don't know why. So either way, I might end up with another (and reason I'm trying to stick with those is that I already have 3-4 optifit-adapter shafts that I can switch out).




    I'm with you 100%



    I've always liked the smaller head shape of a driver. 460cc no matter what tech or eye- trickerey is used to make it look small, well..... doesn't work for me.



    Until the G400, the smaller drivers were usually less forgiving... (sldr, all the other TM 440's and even the Titleist)



    G400 has been easily the driver to fit my eye the best. Hit a buddy's Cobra F9 the other day since the hype around it has been so real. It looks good, and performed well for the few passes I made at it. I just couldn't get over the club head size.



    Hoping the g400 goes full closeout in a few months so I can pick up 1 or 2 backup heads as I am not a fan of how the G410+ looks and i dont see more 440cc-445cc heads coming back anytime soon.



    I will say though, as a fast swinger, I have cracked 2 Ping g400 drivers on the face. Both times were replaced almost no questions asked. The head just looks A+ to me and so do my numbers and ball flight. Could I find something more forgiving with a bigger head size? Probably. Hit a G400 Max to see what the hype was about and couldn't stand the size of it regardless of how it performed.



    Looks like the G400 will be in the bag for a LONG while...
    Posted:
    GHIN Index 13.8
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #4
    bulls9999 wrote:


    I'm with you. Was wanting a 'backup' 2nd 440ish driver. I currently have a Cally Optiforce 440/LH and can get another on the bay for ~$50 and was thinking of a newer Cally, perhaps XR16 Pro, but don't know why there's so few of them available and the ones that are around $175-ish, don't know why. So either way, I might end up with another (and reason I'm trying to stick with those is that I already have 3-4 optifit-adapter shafts that I can switch out).




    I'm with you 100%



    I've always liked the smaller head shape of a driver. 460cc no matter what tech or eye- trickerey is used to make it look small, well..... doesn't work for me.



    Until the G400, the smaller drivers were usually less forgiving... (sldr, all the other TM 440's and even the Titleist)



    G400 has been easily the driver to fit my eye the best. Hit a buddy's Cobra F9 the other day since the hype around it has been so real. It looks good, and performed well for the few passes I made at it. I just couldn't get over the club head size.



    Hoping the g400 goes full closeout in a few months so I can pick up 1 or 2 backup heads as I am not a fan of how the G410+ looks and i dont see more 440cc-445cc heads coming back anytime soon.



    I will say though, as a fast swinger, I have cracked 2 Ping g400 drivers on the face. Both times were replaced almost no questions asked. The head just looks A+ to me and so do my numbers and ball flight. Could I find something more forgiving with a bigger head size? Probably. Hit a G400 Max to see what the hype was about and couldn't stand the size of it regardless of how it performed.



    Looks like the G400 will be in the bag for a LONG while...





    Unfortunately, 460cc is forgiving.... and now they have made them very fast if not faster then the smaller heads. Which is my guess why they don't make many anymore. Pleasing to the eye, yes. Performance benefit over a 460cc anymore? probably not.



    Smaller heads used to be faster and less forgiving then their big cc'ed counter parts. Very workable but usually horrid on mishits. SLDR would go for MILES if nutted on the screws with some of the lowest spin you could find out of a head. If you missed one even a little bit, you were in for a rough day.



    Smaller driver heads are almost a niche' in the driver market now with how fast the 460cc heads have become and how low spinning these heads are now. So now, as long as you can stand the looks of a bigger driver, why wouldn't you go with something just as fast if not faster, and much more forgiving.



    For me, moving into a bigger head is a bridge I am not willing to cross......... just yet.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know...  19032Members Posts: 19,032
    Joined:  #5
    No disrespect but a 440cc driver is only 4.3% below the max allowable. Not exactly a profound difference.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • agolf1agolf1  1806Members Posts: 1,806
    Joined:  #6
    Nessism wrote:


    No disrespect but a 440cc driver is only 4.3% below the max allowable. Not exactly a profound difference.


    I'm with this. I thought the preference for the slightly smaller models was usually the ability to put the weights more towards the face / forward (which reduced spin slightly but also made it harder to hit).



    Shooter obviously gets how similar the two options have become performance wise though.
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • grm24grm24 Western PA 3865Members Posts: 3,865
    Joined:  edited Mar 14, 2019 12:07am #7
    bulls9999 wrote:


    OK, I find myself only able to hit sub-460cc drivers; I know I'm not the only one as this is a recurring topic. Currently love my Cally Optiforce 440 (I'm also left-handed).



    Can anyone add to this list? Callaway has seemingly abandoned us in the sub-460cc category.



    Callaway

    - Optiforce, 440cc

    - XR16 Pro, 440cc

    - XR Pro, 440cc



    Titleist

    - 917D3 (440)

    - 915D3 (440)



    Ping:

    - G410 plus (455cc)

    - G410 SFT (455)

    - G400 (445)

    - G400 LST (445)

    - G400 SFT (445)



    Taylormade

    - M5 Tour (435cc, RH only)

    - M3 440 (RH only)

    - M1 440 (RH only)

    - r11 TP (440cc) - LH

    - r7 limited (2008)(440cc) - LH



    Mizuno

    - JPX-850 (440cc)
    R15 430 (LH Tour Issue Only), SLDR 430, Nike VR Pro LTD (430), Nike VR- S Covert Tour (435), Nike Vapor Flex 440, Srixon Z765, Srixon Z355
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #8
    Nessism wrote:


    No disrespect but a 440cc driver is only 4.3% below the max allowable. Not exactly a profound difference.




    Not sure if this was directed at me or OP but for me it is strictly a visual thing. Like I stated above, they are very close if not identical performance.



    Just strictly a visual thing for me. I enjoy the look of a compact head. This could be almost a how you like the look of blades vs gi irons. Alot of people would probably perform better with bigger, more forgiving irons. But most can't stand the look of gi or sgi irons. They say play the largest iron you can stand to look at right? Same thing for me with the driver.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • agolf1agolf1  1806Members Posts: 1,806
    Joined:  #9

    Nessism wrote:


    No disrespect but a 440cc driver is only 4.3% below the max allowable. Not exactly a profound difference.




    Not sure if this was directed at me or OP but for me it is strictly a visual thing. Like I stated above, they are very close if not identical performance.



    Just strictly a visual thing for me. I enjoy the look of a compact head. This could be almost a how you like the look of blades vs gi irons. Alot of people would probably perform better with bigger, more forgiving irons. But most can't stand the look of gi or sgi irons. They say play the largest iron you can stand to look at right? Same thing for me with the driver.


    I think we were just wondering if the size difference is really that noticeable. For you, it seems to be.



    I can tell the shape difference between a D2 and D3. I guess there's also a size difference there but it really doesn't bother me. There both big and ugly. I have to go to like a 983E before the size is really apparent.



    But I don't care about looks much. I'm a Ping G iron guy and would be happy to get a new GMax driver...
    Posted:
    Titleist 915 D4 10.5*, Diamana S+ Blue 60 S-Flex
    Titleist 915F 16.5* & 21.0*, Diamana S+ Blue 70 S-Flex
    PING G25 5-PW (25*-44*), UW (49*), SW (54*), CFS R-Flex
    PING Zing 2 L/S (57*)
    PING Cadence TR Ketsch Putter
    Backup Lob Wedges:  PING Eye 2+ (58*) or PING Eye 2 XG (60*)
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #10
    agolf1 wrote:


    Nessism wrote:


    No disrespect but a 440cc driver is only 4.3% below the max allowable. Not exactly a profound difference.




    Not sure if this was directed at me or OP but for me it is strictly a visual thing. Like I stated above, they are very close if not identical performance.



    Just strictly a visual thing for me. I enjoy the look of a compact head. This could be almost a how you like the look of blades vs gi irons. Alot of people would probably perform better with bigger, more forgiving irons. But most can't stand the look of gi or sgi irons. They say play the largest iron you can stand to look at right? Same thing for me with the driver.


    I think we were just wondering if the size difference is really that noticeable. For you, it seems to be.



    I can tell the shape difference between a D2 and D3. I guess there's also a size difference there but it really doesn't bother me. There both big and ugly. I have to go to like a 983E before the size is really apparent.



    But I don't care about looks much. I'm a Ping G iron guy and would be happy to get a new GMax driver...




    Everyone is different when it comes to visual preference. Very similar to why people tend to gravitate toward a similar putter head they have always played as oppossed to buying something/ getting fitted toward something that may give them the help they need on the greens.



    Driver appearance to putter appearance is a little apple to oranges but deep down is the same visually appealing sensor in your brain that tells you what you do and don't like. Some people can look past the appearance and go strictly by performance, other people wouldn't even touch a club because of its visual profile. And that goes from top of the bag to the bottom.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #11
    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • TasalsTasals  363Members Posts: 363
    Joined:  #12
    Callaway had 430 models of the Subzero I believe. Special order only though and they ran out fast.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • NessismNessism To measure is to know...  19032Members Posts: 19,032
    Joined:  #13
    A 440cc driver could be made to look huge if the designer elongated the top crown front to back. And a 460cc driver could conversely be made to look compact by doing the opposite. It's not about the cc's.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver 60S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 5 wood w/Aldila Rogue Black 70S
    Cobra (Lexi blue) F7 Hybrid w/Aldila Kuro Kage 80S
    Ping G410 irons w/Recoil 95S
    Ping Glide 50/55/60 wedges w/Recoil 110S
    Ping Anser/Arna putter - the "real deal!"
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 2:39pm #14
    Nessism wrote:


    A 440cc driver could be made to look huge if the designer elongated the top crown front to back. And a 460cc driver could conversely be made to look compact by doing the opposite. It's not about the cc's.




    ...... key word in your post is COULD. I'm talking about what is on the market currently. Where in histroy has a manufacturer made a driver side by side with a smaller version and had the smaller cc'ed driver LOOK bigger...



    What you're saying is like saying a Chevy suburban could look smaller if they made it taller but they shortened it. And the Chevy Tahoe could look bigger compared to the suburban by making it longer and lowering the overall height while keeping all of the cubic feet numbers the same.



    I'm not going to entertain your comments anymore because you obviously aren't getting what we are talking about.



    *EDIT**^^^ This comment was before my second cup of morning coffee kicked in so I do apologize how that came off. LOL**
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • BookerBooker  798Members Posts: 798
    Joined:  #15
    Cobra biocell pro

    Nike tw Vapor speed (420)

    T.I. R11 Dot head (420)

    R11s v2 (440) R11s v3 (400)



    These are a few more you ca add to the list. I've owned all of them, all great heads if your a good ball striker.

    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6089Members Posts: 6,089
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 1:28pm #16


    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.




    Here's a fun(?) experiment.



    Next time you're at a golf store put 2 identical drivers on the ground next to each other and your eyes directly above in between the 2.



    Which (if either) driver head looks bigger ?



    Now reverse them. Same question, which head looks bigger ?
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 1:40pm #17
    nsxguy wrote:



    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.




    Here's a fun(?) experiment.



    Next time you're at a golf store put 2 identical drivers on the ground next to each other and your eyes directly above in between the 2.



    Which (if either) driver head looks bigger ?



    Now reverse them. Same question, which head looks bigger ?




    Hey, just curious, but what would we be trying to figure out with this test?



    The way I can get comfotable looking at a driver is by looking at them at address the way they would sit behind a shot. wouldn't need to put 2 drivers side by side to get any info if it didnt look good behind the ball to me.......
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6089Members Posts: 6,089
    Joined:  #18

    nsxguy wrote:



    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.




    Here's a fun(?) experiment.



    Next time you're at a golf store put 2 identical drivers on the ground next to each other and your eyes directly above in between the 2.



    Which (if either) driver head looks bigger ?



    Now reverse them. Same question, which head looks bigger ?




    Hey, just curious, but what would we be trying to figure out with this test?



    The way I can get comfotable looking at a driver is by looking at them at address the way they would sit behind a shot. wouldn't need to put 2 drivers side by side to get any info if it didnt look good behind the ball to me.......




    The purpose is to see how your eyes can sometimes fool you.



    Ever see a 3-card monte game ? Think you could find the red queen ? I'm betting you couldn't - not if the dealer was trying to hide it that is.



    I'm thinking the point Nessy was trying to make is that unless you already knew the volume of a driver head and he gave you 2 different drivers and you only looked down at address, there's a good chance the one you'd think was larger actually was not.
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #19
    BTW, OP i believe JD's clubs had tour issue Rogue/ Epic smaller headed driver. He is in Minnesota I believe and people on here seem to rave about his work.



    Not sure about lefty's though. I know he has instagram. Not sure of any other social media platforms.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • BigPapyBigPapy  309Members Posts: 309
    Joined:  #20
    Bridgestone J715 B5 version-JDM/ not sure if there was a lefty though
    Posted:
    Ping I15 Whiteboard or J715 B5+ Attas G7
    Anser 3wd/5wd
    Mizuno fli hi
    Ping S55 or nike VPC
    J15 black wedges 52, 56, 60
    Sigma 2 Valor
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 2:33pm #21
    nsxguy wrote:


    nsxguy wrote:



    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.




    Here's a fun(?) experiment.



    Next time you're at a golf store put 2 identical drivers on the ground next to each other and your eyes directly above in between the 2.



    Which (if either) driver head looks bigger ?



    Now reverse them. Same question, which head looks bigger ?




    Hey, just curious, but what would we be trying to figure out with this test?



    The way I can get comfotable looking at a driver is by looking at them at address the way they would sit behind a shot. wouldn't need to put 2 drivers side by side to get any info if it didnt look good behind the ball to me.......




    The purpose is to see how your eyes can sometimes fool you.



    Ever see a 3-card monte game ? Think you could find the red queen ? I'm betting you couldn't - not if the dealer was trying to hide it that is.



    I'm thinking the point Nessy was trying to make is that unless you already knew the volume of a driver head and he gave you 2 different drivers and you only looked down at address, there's a good chance the one you'd think was larger actually was not.




    I have never personally seen a 3-card monte game so not to sure how that works.



    But once again. IN MY EYES AND OPINION, 430-440cc heads LOOK better and more compact to my eye. Whether it be the shape, size, color, whatever it is visually, smaller heads do it for me. The only visual thing for me is how it looks behind the ball. I don't care what it looks like next to its sibling or same driver or 15 other drivers. I care about putting one individual driver behind the ball and seeing if it visually appeals to me.



    Some people can't tell visually. But to suggest/tell ME that I wouldn't know the difference is a stretch. You don't have my eyes or my perception.. If my eyes are possibly fooling me according to everyone else, well then they wouldn't be my eyes or perception.



    Every single driver that I have played that was 460cc looks like a 460cc driver. Every smaller headed driver I have put down behind the ball, looks like a smaller driver head (usually 430-440cc). Would i know the difference between 440cc and 445cc? Probably not. My eyes are not that good. But 20cc difference and I can tell. With the drivers that are out or have come out on the market. Not talking hypothetical drivers where weight and design can be moved to make it look smaller/ bigger.



    I was at PGA Tour superstore getting my G400 replaced for a face crack on Monday and was curious about the new G410+. I hadn't really read about it at all and I hadn't seen the head size in cc's. The second I put it down, I could instantly tell it was bigger then the g400. Put them down next to each other to compare and I was correct. It was bigger.



    The other thing that I mentioned was the mass of the driver in the swing. You could have a 203g g400 vs. a 203g g400 MAX with the same shaft, same length, same swing weight, same cpm down to the decimal and the bigger head would FEEL bigger to me. Even though they are the same weight with the same characteristics, there is still more volume of space in the 460cc head as it just takes up more space. The drag coeffitients would also be different between the 2 heads which in turn also leads to different feelings. Now i am not going all Bryson DeChambeau, I am just speaking on "feel" which can be different for everyone.



    The beauty of golf is that everyone has different feels and visuals for the most part. Or else why wouldnt we all be playing the max MOI driver, max moi irons, and so on that still allows you to hit the shots you want. I can very well hit a bigger driver just as well if not better then its smaller counter part. But visually, I enjoy looking at a more compact head behind the ball and gives me more confidence. I don't have the confidence to hit a bigger driver head like I do with a small driver head.



    Scotty Cameron has tried to make Tiger Woods dozens of backup putters to replace old faithful. And what does he still use? He has said that nothing can replicate his OG putter which he still uses to this day because of how it "feels". Even if the dozens of other ones have the same head weight, balance point, grip, so on.....



    And that all comes down to feel. I haven't spent 1/1000th of the time swinging and hitting putts my whole life like Tiger has, but when it comes to feel, it is a completely personal thing. Some people have different feels. Some people can feel a shaft load with knowing exactly where the bend point is. Other people dont know the difference between a $20 made for Bassara and a $600 TPT.



    **Edited for spelling**
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • bulls9999bulls9999 GHIN Index = 12.8 862Members Posts: 862
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 3:16pm #22
    I think several manufacturers (TM, Cally) missed the mark when they came out with their ‘mini-drivers’ which were like 340cc, slightly larger than a 3-wood (ie., 3-deep).... should have made a 400cc. But swing wise, even the 440cc swings easier/smoother (for me) than a 460, otherwise I'd be using one. I just picked up a Big Bertha 2018 alpha (that came with a Fuji Speeder 565 Reg)?, that I switch out the same shaft that's on my Optiforce 440, but it in the BBalpha, and ehhh, besides a dumb 'ting' sound, it feels sluggish [background=transparent]and feels like I'm swinging in slow motion[/background]. When I put the shaft from the BBalpha in my Optiforce 440, wow, I like it even better than the Project X shaft that was in there...I can play either one. Don't know what it is, but more than just looks, it's as if it's aerodynamically different; sorry if I can't pin it down better than that on why it feels different. Could the 20cc difference be a different in head weight?
    Posted:
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    GHIN Index 13.8
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • CwebbCwebb  6005Members Posts: 6,005
    Joined:  #23
    Go further back.....like '07 and before. Many classics to choose from that will stand up today, if they fit you.



    One example of a classic that gets talked about all the time on this forum, is the Titleist 905R. They claim it's 460cc, but it definitely looks smaller than most any other "460" in the last 12 years
    Posted:
  • nsxguynsxguy Just anudder user Florida 6089Members Posts: 6,089
    Joined:  #24

    nsxguy wrote:


    nsxguy wrote:



    And to add, visually to me, I really can tell the difference.



    G400 vs G400 Max



    Same look head, same visual features, different CC's.



    Put them on the ground next to each other and it is a HUGE difference in my eyes. Swinging them is the same thing. Same shaft, same swing weight and the MAX just "feels" bigger to me which is something that I dislike.




    Here's a fun(?) experiment.



    Next time you're at a golf store put 2 identical drivers on the ground next to each other and your eyes directly above in between the 2.



    Which (if either) driver head looks bigger ?



    Now reverse them. Same question, which head looks bigger ?




    Hey, just curious, but what would we be trying to figure out with this test?



    The way I can get comfotable looking at a driver is by looking at them at address the way they would sit behind a shot. wouldn't need to put 2 drivers side by side to get any info if it didnt look good behind the ball to me.......




    The purpose is to see how your eyes can sometimes fool you.



    Ever see a 3-card monte game ? Think you could find the red queen ? I'm betting you couldn't - not if the dealer was trying to hide it that is.



    I'm thinking the point Nessy was trying to make is that unless you already knew the volume of a driver head and he gave you 2 different drivers and you only looked down at address, there's a good chance the one you'd think was larger actually was not.




    I have never personally seen a 3-card monte game so not to sure how that works.



    But once again. IN MY EYES AND OPINION, 430-440cc heads LOOK better and more compact to my eye. Whether it be the shape, size, color, whatever it is visually, smaller heads do it for me. The only visual thing for me is how it looks behind the ball. I don't care what it looks like next to its sibling or same driver or 15 other drivers. I care about putting one individual driver behind the ball and seeing if it visually appeals to me.




    I guess my point is that from the address position, pretty much ALL you can tell about a driver is the size from the TOP of it. You can barely see the hitting surface and can't tell the depth of the face.



    You can have many different volume heads appear to be exactly the same at address.



    That's pretty much it.



    But you can tell the difference. IMO most couldn't. Good for you. image/good.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':good:' />
    Posted:
    Callaway Epic 10.5 Project X Hzrdus Yellow 63 gr, 6.0
    Adams A12 Pro hybrids, 16*, Aldila VS Proto Stiff
    Ping G400 19* hybrid Stiff 70 Stock shaft

    Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300
    Ping Glide Forged 48*, 52* 56*, 60* DGS300
    Taylormade Tour Spider Black (Today - always subject to change LOL)
    Titleist AVX
  • bulls9999bulls9999 GHIN Index = 12.8 862Members Posts: 862
    Joined:  #25
    I know, I was just wanting something that was more recent, especially with an adapter that I can change out to a shaft I like better when I find one. Titleist has a bunch back then and still do; their D3's are 440's.



    Yes,

    Titleist 905T = 400cc (https://www.titleist.com/golf-clubs/drivers/2006-pro-titanium-905t )



    Titleist 905S = 400cc (https://www.titleist.com/golf-clubs/drivers/2006-pro-titanium-905s )



    Titleist 905R = 460cc (https://www.titleist.com/golf-clubs/drivers/2006-pro-titanium-905r )


    Cwebb wrote:


    Go further back.....like '07 and before. Many classics to choose from that will stand up today, if they fit you.



    One example of a classic that gets talked about all the time on this forum, is the Titleist 905R. They claim it's 460cc, but it definitely looks smaller than most any other "460" in the last 12 years
    Posted:
    GHIN Index 13.8
  • earleyrcearleyrc  423Members Posts: 423
    Joined:  #26
    Callaway made a PM440 (can't remember if was Epic or Rogue) but obviously never for sale to public. Would like to buy one off Phil if he had any leftovers!!



    OP - I, like you, prefer the more compact look. I think the profile is more important than the actual volume of the head, for me at least. The Callaway Epic/Rogue/Flash sz models are much smaller looking at address than their standard models. Same goes for the TS3 vs the TS2. It's just the shaping of the head to allow more weight closer to the face to reduce spin.
    Posted:
    Driver (9.5°) - Titleist TS3 Fujikura Speeder Pro TS 74
    Wood (15°) - Titleist 915Fd Diamana D+ White 80
    Hybrid (19°) - Titleist 913h Diamana S+ Blue 82
    Irons (4-9) - Titleist 718AP2 DG S300 AMT
    Wedges (46.08F, 50.08F) - Vokey SM6 DG S200
    Wedges (54.10,58.10) - Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 DG S200
    Flat Stick (34") - Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2 Matador Mid
  • phelans090280phelans090280 Philadelphia 32Members Posts: 32
    Joined:  #27
    Taylormade R9 (420cc) - both RH & LH



    Great club!
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Sh00terMcgavinSh00terMcgavin  298Members Posts: 298
    Joined:  #28
    NSXGUY- Not sure if you were being sarcastic but, I got cha man. I completely understand what you mean from the top of it.



    Just going by releases, the smaller cc'ed heads have smaller profiles in line with the cc's which is why I guess we gravitate toward those smaller heads. Because they have a more compact look at address. Not saying there will never be a 440cc driver that looks like a 460cc or vice versa. Just going by past releases and how the smaller cc'ed clubs are always more compact behind the ball.



    The Sub Z's get pretty close to looking compact because its more pear shaped player profile but is still 460cc.
    Posted:
    Ping G400 Accra TZ6 M5
    TEE EX10 Beta but searching
    Callaway Apex UT 21*
    Mizuno MP5
    Vokey
    Spider
    Tp5x
  • NRJyzrNRJyzr Minnesota, USA 6827Members Posts: 6,827
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 3:41pm #29
    My first thought was R9 SuperDeep. <shrug>

    I have one, it looks smaller than my 440cc Fly Z+



    You could always spring for an A Grind Classic at 350cc....
    Posted:
    The Ever Changing Bag!

    Driver: Golden Ram TW805, Precision 6.5, 43.25"
    3w:  Golden Ram 16*, Precision 6.5, 42"
    2i:  Mizuno Pro, DGS300
    3-PW:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300
    2-PW:  Golden Ram Tour Grinds, Dynamic S
    GW:  Dynacraft forged 52*, DGS400 (not carried with Golden Rams)
    SW:  Wilson Staff PMP 58*
    Putter: Cleveland Huntington Beach #1 35"
    Balls: in no particular order... Wilson Staff FG Tour, Duo Urethane/Professional, or 50 Elite, Srixon ZStar, Snell MTB Black, Vice Pro Lime... will trot out Maxfli HT-100 or Elite 90 from time to time

    Driver Substitutes: Golden Ram TW801 or TW802, DGS300
  • ian-500ian-500  994Members Posts: 994
    Joined:  #30
    I think I read that the Callaway Razr Fit was 440, but only the 9.5 and 8.5...
    Posted:
    Taylormade M1 430 8.5* + Tensei CK Pro Blue 60tx.
    Taylormade Original One 14.5* + Tensei CK Pro Blue 80tx.
    Epon AF-903 20 & 23 + OT Tour 120x.
    Epon AF-Tour 5i - PW + OT Tour 120x.
    Epon 208 KGX 53/59 + OT Tour 110x.
    SeeMore SB1, Accra FX300.
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • bulls9999bulls9999 GHIN Index = 12.8 862Members Posts: 862
    Joined:  edited Mar 13, 2019 4:38pm #31
    According to Cally's pre-owned site, it's 458cc, lol. https://www.callaway...l#section-specs



    ...ok, the Razr Fit Extreme is 440cc (I have that too, but it's the Optifit 1 adapter, different than the later ones).


    ian-500 wrote:


    I think I read that the Callaway Razr Fit was 440, but only the 9.5 and 8.5...
    Posted:
    GHIN Index 13.8
2

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.