Varner ruling.

 deadsolid...shank ·  
deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX  15174WRX Points: 1,233Posts: 15,174 ClubWRX
Joined:  in Rules of Golf and Etiquette #1
This one is not good. Who gave him the advice?
Posted:

«13456715
15

Comments

  • DrudershDrudersh ClubWRX  2984WRX Points: 253Handicap: +2Posts: 2,984 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #2
    ......... go onnnnn............
    Posted:
    Ping G 10.5 Tour 65s
    Ping G 14.5 Tour 80x
    Titleist 716 T-MB 3 Iron AD DI 95x
    Ping Anser Forged Project X 6.0
    Ping Glide 50*SS, 54*SS, 58*SS Project X 6.0
    Odyssey Versa 2-Ball
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX  15174WRX Points: 1,233Posts: 15,174 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #3
    Driver cracked on the range. Checked with officials how to proceed. Started with 13 clubs, someone brought out a new head, they attached head and shaft, he played a shot and incurred a two stroke penalty. Club can’t be assembled with components carried on the course. Apparently if they had put it together in the locker room he would have been ok.



    Rule has apparently been there for a long time, my question is, he asked how to properly proceed. Sounds like what he got told omitted some important information.
    Posted:

  • CwebbCwebb Members  6028WRX Points: 329Posts: 6,028 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #4
    This rule needs changing
    Posted:
  • deadsolid...shankdeadsolid...shank ClubWRX  15174WRX Points: 1,233Posts: 15,174 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #5
    I don’t know who the official was who was in the booth, but Faldo was kind of giving him the business. Really hinting at the adsurdity. Gannon was trying to help the official by trying to explain the rational behind the rule.



    But they never asked why someone didn’t tell him this part, when he asked how to proceed so he wouldn’t break any rules.
    Posted:

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13784WRX Points: 2,627Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,784 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #6
    This is crazy and an oversight if what I am reading above is accurate



    A player can use a wrench re-secure a hosel adapter or weights during the round ON THE COURSE .... but not if it is a replacement head ?????????
    Posted:

    Ping G400 LST 10.6* GD BB 7s
    Ping G400 3w 13.5* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Blueboard Ion 73x
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* GD Tour AD DI 95x
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* GD Tour AD DI 105x
    Ping Blueprint 6 - PW UST Recoil 110
    Vokey SM2 50-54tvd-59tvd-64 s400 onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite torched

  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers  3054WRX Points: 161Handicap: 5.2Posts: 3,054 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #7
    This is the interpretation I found:



    4.1b(4)/1 – Club Components May Be Assembled When Not Carried By or For Player

    Rule 4.1b(4) restricts a player from building a club from parts that he or she is carrying or parts that any other person is carrying for him or her. It does not restrict the player from retrieving parts to build a club or having parts brought to him or her.



    For example, if a player is permitted to add a club (see Rule 4.1b(1)) or replace a damaged club (see Rule 4.1b(3)), club components brought from the clubhouse (such as the player’s locker), the golf shop, or a manufacturer’s truck, or other similar locations, are not considered to be “carried by anyone for the player during the round ” and are allowed to be assembled by the player or anyone else.
    Posted:
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5*
    On -, @44.5"

    In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods
    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 5W = 19*

    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 7W = 23*

    Cobra F7 One Length Irons
    Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
    6I = 24* 7I = 29* 8I = 34* 9I = 39* PW = 44* GW = 49* SW = 54* LW = 59*
    Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled
    On -, @33.5"

    Maxfli SoftFli
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • SawgrassSawgrass Members  15874WRX Points: 1,156Posts: 15,874 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #8
    Was the player told by an official that he could do this, then penalized for doing so?
    Posted:
  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers  3054WRX Points: 161Handicap: 5.2Posts: 3,054 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #9
    Seems like maybe a misunderstanding of the advice given by officials? It's possible officials told him it was ok for his people to bring him an assembled club, but did not specify it had to be assembled before the parts arrived on course? Built then sent out to him is different than sent out to him then built.



    https://www.si.com/g...rs-championship



    _____



    "Before the round started, Varner noticed a crack in his driver. He alerted rules officials and told them he intended to start the round with 13 clubs, with a plan to have a driver built and sent out to him while he was on the course. It is legal to start a round with 13 clubs and add one later.



    His agent brought the clubhead to the course and a walking scorer brought the shaft. The two parts were then attached and Varner hit a shot with the newly assembled driver. He was then assessed a two-stroke penalty because a player is not allowed to use a club whose parts were assembled on the golf course by anyone, even if it's not the player.
    Posted:
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5*
    On -, @44.5"

    In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods
    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 5W = 19*

    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 7W = 23*

    Cobra F7 One Length Irons
    Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
    6I = 24* 7I = 29* 8I = 34* 9I = 39* PW = 44* GW = 49* SW = 54* LW = 59*
    Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled
    On -, @33.5"

    Maxfli SoftFli
  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13784WRX Points: 2,627Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,784 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #10
    in today's day and age ... either the shaft will fail (part S) or the head (part H)



    The odds are you will want to replace one of these H or S (that you are 100% likely still carrying on the course) with a replacement piece for the failed piece



    Needs a rule change ASAP
    Posted:

    Ping G400 LST 10.6* GD BB 7s
    Ping G400 3w 13.5* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Blueboard Ion 73x
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* GD Tour AD DI 95x
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* GD Tour AD DI 105x
    Ping Blueprint 6 - PW UST Recoil 110
    Vokey SM2 50-54tvd-59tvd-64 s400 onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite torched

  • cardoustiecardoustie haha, we don't play for 5's Tasmania to CanadaMembers  13784WRX Points: 2,627Handicap: 0.9 >< 3.8Posts: 13,784 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #11
    rawdog wrote:


    Seems like maybe a misunderstanding of the advice given by officials? It's possible officials told him it was ok for his people to bring him an assembled club, but did not specify it had to be assembled before the parts arrived on course? Built then sent out to him is different than sent out to him then built.



    https://www.si.com/g...rs-championship



    _____



    "Before the round started, Varner noticed a crack in his driver. He alerted rules officials and told them he intended to start the round with 13 clubs, with a plan to have a driver built and sent out to him while he was on the course. It is legal to start a round with 13 clubs and add one later.



    His agent brought the clubhead to the course and a walking scorer brought the shaft. The two parts were then attached and Varner hit a shot with the newly assembled driver. He was then assessed a two-stroke penalty because a player is not allowed to use a club whose parts were assembled on the golf course by anyone, even if it's not the player.




    Who dreams this stuff up? How is it an advantage regardless of who and where it is assembled?

    Are they worried fake failures will happen and new drivers more suitable for the back 9 will be dropped into play?
    Posted:

    Ping G400 LST 10.6* GD BB 7s
    Ping G400 3w 13.5* Oban Revenge 65x
    Ping G400 5w 16.5* Blueboard Ion 73x
    Callaway Apex 4h 23* GD Tour AD DI 95x
    Callaway Apex 5h 26* GD Tour AD DI 105x
    Ping Blueprint 6 - PW UST Recoil 110
    Vokey SM2 50-54tvd-59tvd-64 s400 onyx
    Piretti Matera Elite torched

  • jmkenn0jmkenn0 Members  804WRX Points: 150Posts: 804 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #12
    They didn't explain it very well but it sounds like they told him he could start with 13 and bring out another club - I don't think he explained to them he was planning on keeping the shaft and replacing the head (or maybe they were just carrying the shaft?) hopefully if he had told them the plan they would have told him to give the shaft to someone to assemble elsewhere.



    The rules guy was trying to say this was to avoid having people abuse the rule by playing with 13 figure out what their miss was then assemble a 14 th to adjust.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members  3092WRX Points: 331Posts: 3,092 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #13
    Cwebb wrote:


    This rule needs changing




    I don't think allowing players to carry 40 shafts and 60 club heads for the round and then letting them assemble clubs one by one up to 14 clubs during the play of the round based on their needs or swing that day is a good idea.



    But if an official approved what happened, it should not be a penalty.
    Posted:
    Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
    D: ST180 / 3W: GT 180 / 21º, MP-H5 / 4-PW: MP-4 / 50º: MP-T5 / 55º: FG Tour PMP  / 60º: Hi-Toe / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4
    WITB Link
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4971WRX Points: 483Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,971 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Mar 14, 2019 #14
    Halebopp wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:


    This rule needs changing




    I don't think allowing players to carry 40 shafts and 60 club heads for the round and then letting them assemble clubs one by one up to 14 clubs during the play of the round based on their needs or swing that day is a good idea.



    But if an official approved what happened, it should not be a penalty.




    This is not of 40 shafts and 60 heads but 1 shaft and 1 head. The issue is that there must be a line drawn somewhere and this is where it has been drawn.



    EDIT: I don't believe the referee knew what the player was about to do, otherwise he would have advised him, I am sure of that.
    Posted:
  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers  3054WRX Points: 161Handicap: 5.2Posts: 3,054 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #15
    cardoustie wrote:


    in today's day and age ... either the shaft will fail (part S) or the head (part H)



    The odds are you will want to replace one of these H or S (that you are 100% likely still carrying on the course) with a replacement piece for the failed piece



    Needs a rule change ASAP




    I think the difference is that he wasn't replacing a club, he was adding a club.



    The club was damaged before the round and was not in his bag when he started. I believe there are other rules in place for what's allowed when repairing a club during a round.
    Posted:
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5*
    On -, @44.5"

    In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods
    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 5W = 19*

    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 7W = 23*

    Cobra F7 One Length Irons
    Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
    6I = 24* 7I = 29* 8I = 34* 9I = 39* PW = 44* GW = 49* SW = 54* LW = 59*
    Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled
    On -, @33.5"

    Maxfli SoftFli
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members  3092WRX Points: 331Posts: 3,092 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #16
    Mr. Bean wrote:

    Halebopp wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:


    This rule needs changing




    I don't think allowing players to carry 40 shafts and 60 club heads for the round and then letting them assemble clubs one by one up to 14 clubs during the play of the round based on their needs or swing that day is a good idea.



    But if an official approved what happened, it should not be a penalty.




    This is not of 40 shafts and 60 heads but 1 shaft and 1 head. The issue is that there must be a line drawn somewhere and this is where it has been drawn.




    Well, that should be obvious, it was simply an exaggeration to deliver a point why it isn't allowed. The line was drawn in the easiest point possible to administer, making such behaviour forbidden altogether. (And to nitpick, it was only one shaft he had in the bag, not the head).



    Certainly an interesting situation but he could've asked for help from rules officials before starting his round, the rules officials should've known the rules and if they didn't, the player shouldn't be penalized for acting in accordance with the directions given by the rules official.
    Posted:
    Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
    D: ST180 / 3W: GT 180 / 21º, MP-H5 / 4-PW: MP-4 / 50º: MP-T5 / 55º: FG Tour PMP  / 60º: Hi-Toe / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4
    WITB Link
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9273WRX Points: 2,911Posts: 9,273 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #17
    Is it a single 2 stroke penalty or a 2 stroke penalty every time he uses the club?
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4971WRX Points: 483Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,971 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #18
    You get 2 PS and you have to declare that club out of play. (this from the top of my head)
    Posted:
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #19
    Penalty in Stroke Play – Two Penalty Strokes, Maximum of Four Strokes: The player gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes) for each hole where a breach happened, with a maximum of four penalty strokes in the round (adding two penalty strokes at each of the first two holes where a breach happened).
    Posted:
    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13880WRX Points: 1,441Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,880 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #20
    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Hoofer
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4971WRX Points: 483Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,971 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Mar 14, 2019 #21
    I just read the Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1 and according to that there is no penalty for the player if he assembles a club from components brought him onto the course provided those components were brought to him from outside the course and nobody had carried them for him.



    It seems that the story just does not add up...



    EDIT: Did he repair his club or replace it? If former, then he was in breach.



    EDIT2: This part of the SI article seems to contain more than one incorrect thing:



    'His agent brought the clubhead to the course and a walking scorer brought the shaft. The two parts were then attached and Varner hit a shot with the newly assembled driver. He was then assessed a two-stroke penalty because a player is not allowed to use a club whose parts were assembled on the golf course by anyone, even if it's not the player.'
    Posted:
  • jmkenn0jmkenn0 Members  804WRX Points: 150Posts: 804 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #22
    Mr. Bean wrote:


    I just read the Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1 and according to that there is no penalty for the player if he assembles a club from components brought him onto the course provided those components were brought to him from outside the course and nobody had carried them for him.



    It seems that the story just does not add up...



    EDIT: Did he repair his club or replace it? If former, then he was in breach.




    But the score keeper holder was carrying the shaft?
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • KevCarterKevCarter WisconsinClubWRX  12933WRX Points: 480Posts: 12,933 ClubWRX
    Joined:  edited Mar 14, 2019 #23
    Mr. Bean wrote:


    I just read the Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1 and according to that there is no penalty for the player if he assembles a club from components brought him onto the course provided those components were brought to him from outside the course and nobody had carried them for him.



    It seems that the story just does not add up...



    EDIT: Did he repair his club or replace it? If former, then he was in breach.




    Not positive, but I think I read his manager had been carrying the shaft (maybe original) for him.



    Edit:

    jmkenn0 was correct, it was the score sign holder. Bad memory.
    Posted:
    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • Mr. BeanMr. Bean Members  4971WRX Points: 483Handicap: 3,8Posts: 4,971 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #24
    dlygrisse wrote:


    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?




    No. That would be repairing the club and that is not allowed.
    Posted:
  • rawdograwdog Cleveland, OHMembers  3054WRX Points: 161Handicap: 5.2Posts: 3,054 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #25
    Mr. Bean wrote:


    I just read the Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1 and according to that there is no penalty for the player if he assembles a club from components brought him onto the course provided those components were brought to him from outside the course and nobody had carried them for him.



    It seems that the story just does not add up...



    EDIT: Did he repair his club or replace it? If former, then he was in breach.




    From my understanding, he intended to tee off with 13 clubs and add one rather than replacing it.



    But it seems unclear if the shaft from the club that broke pre-round was in his bag or being carried by the standard bearer. But just carrying a shaft would not constitute carrying a club. However, if the shaft was already out on the course, it could not be used in assembly of the new club.



    Hope that provides some help.
    Posted:
    Cobra LTD Driver
    Aldila Rogue Black, 9.5*
    On -, @44.5"

    In1Zone Single Length Fairway Woods
    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 5W = 19*

    Graffaloy ProLaunch Axis Blue
    On -, @41.5" 7W = 23*

    Cobra F7 One Length Irons
    Nippon Modus 105 Stiff @ 36.5"
    6I = 24* 7I = 29* 8I = 34* 9I = 39* PW = 44* GW = 49* SW = 54* LW = 59*
    Odyssey #9 HT Metal X Milled
    On -, @33.5"

    Maxfli SoftFli
  • sui generissui generis Members  4454WRX Points: 783Posts: 4,454 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #26
    dlygrisse wrote:


    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?




    I believe that procedure would have been okay.
    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • sui generissui generis Members  4454WRX Points: 783Posts: 4,454 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #27
    Mr. Bean wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?




    No. That would be repairing the club and that is not allowed.




    I think that had the player started the round with 14 clubs, the repair would not have been allowed. Adding a club is permitted, isn't it?
    Posted:
    Knowledge of the Rules is part of the applied skill set which a player must use to play a round of competitive golf.
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • dlygrissedlygrisse KansasMembers  13880WRX Points: 1,441Handicap: 8-ishPosts: 13,880 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #28
    Mr. Bean wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?




    No. That would be repairing the club and that is not allowed.




    So they could have grabbed a new driver, but since they used the shaft it's a violation?
    Posted:
    I pick 14 of the following:
    Ping G400
    Callaway Epic Flash 3w 
    Ping G410 5 and 7 wood
    Callaway Apex 23*
    Ping G 4-U
    Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
    Grips NDMC +4
    Odyssey Pro #1 black
    Hoofer
    ProV1x-mostly
    ECCO Biom Hybrid 3
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9273WRX Points: 2,911Posts: 9,273 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #29
    Mr. Bean wrote:

    dlygrisse wrote:


    If he would have handed someone he knows his shaft, teed off while they ran to the locker room or trailer.....put the club together off the course and brought it to him would that have been okay?




    No. That would be repairing the club and that is not allowed.




    The club was never broken in the first place when he actually teed off. (if he handed the shaft off prior to teeing off). Not to mention replacing a broken club is now allowed.
    Posted:
  • Joker91Joker91 Westminster, COMembers  572WRX Points: 280Handicap: 8.8Posts: 572 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #30
    Basically, don't assemble clubs on the course. Seems pretty simple and there is nothing wrong with that rule.
    Posted:
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
    Joined:  ...

    Advertisement
  • HaleboppHalebopp Members  3092WRX Points: 331Posts: 3,092 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #31
    rawdog wrote:
    Mr. Bean wrote:


    I just read the Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1 and according to that there is no penalty for the player if he assembles a club from components brought him onto the course provided those components were brought to him from outside the course and nobody had carried them for him.



    It seems that the story just does not add up...



    EDIT: Did he repair his club or replace it? If former, then he was in breach.




    From my understanding, he intended to tee off with 13 clubs and add one rather than replacing it.



    But it seems unclear if the shaft from the club that broke pre-round was in his bag or being carried by the standard bearer. But just carrying a shaft would not constitute carrying a club. However, if the shaft was already out on the course, it could not be used in assembly of the new club.



    Hope that provides some help.


    It doesn't matter who carried the shaft. What matters is someone carried it for him.
    Posted:
    Swing DNA: 91/4/3/6/6
    D: ST180 / 3W: GT 180 / 21º, MP-H5 / 4-PW: MP-4 / 50º: MP-T5 / 55º: FG Tour PMP  / 60º: Hi-Toe / Mizuno Bettinardi BC-4
    WITB Link
15

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.