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Will the college admissions scam hit the Tour PLAYERS?


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I honestly still don't get why this is such a big deal and warrants Feds coming in like jackbooted thugs with guns drawn.

 

Well, theres bribing people with $MM to break the law.

 

So....

Based on his other comments, my guess is he's a "platinum member" of these service providers. He's not just finding out that certain things are against the law.

It's clear from your previous posts that you may be lacking in knowledge and experience on a variety of topics. Plus a little free advice for you, as a relative wrx newb, you ought to talk nicely to your fellow WRXers or your tenure here maybe limited.

Why don't you tell me everything I need to know. Or, go hire an advisor to help you.

 

Actually, you've just shown why the value of a degree has declined in value or relevance over time. The grads applying to the most competitive (read "best" - you can congratulate yourself or your kids) can't even do a basic task their own.

 

Spending resources to improve odds of success is fine if you aren't capable. Just know what it is.

 

 

You seem to think it's simply a matter of reading the forms and filling in the answers.

 

If it was, there wouldn't be a thousand businesses that have sprung up to help people do it more successfully.

 

I don't think it's right - I actually think it's become quite bizarre - but I also know that it is what.... it is.

 

How does the average joe (with some sort of successful income and busy life) have the time to learn about what to say on a Harvard application but never on a Yale or Stanford?

 

What's the best angle for Cornell? Duke? Dartmouth?

 

You'd think they'd all "like" the same things.... but they don't. And knowing the right answers (for this year) makes a difference.

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This whole thing has me questioning everything about my past. Did I gain admission to a lower tier NAIA school just because my dad bought the assistant golf coach two Coors Lights and a Slim Jim in the pro shop? I'll never know . . .

 

Crap, lightbulb just went off in my head too....I attended the second most prestigious Montreal university (out of 2). PLUS I was given a bogus athletic position (kicker on football team).

 

The pieces are starting to come together

 

McGill has football?

 

Yup they were just never any good...

 

Oh, you just bite your tongue, sir. I happen to know of a fine young kicker who didn't attend McGill, but would have hammered home XPs, had he attended. McGill whiffed, and the rest is history.

 

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This whole thing has me questioning everything about my past. Did I gain admission to a lower tier NAIA school just because my dad bought the assistant golf coach two Coors Lights and a Slim Jim in the pro shop? I'll never know . . .

 

Crap, lightbulb just went off in my head too....I attended the second most prestigious Montreal university (out of 2). PLUS I was given a bogus athletic position (kicker on football team).

 

The pieces are starting to come together

 

American football or soccer ?

 

Did that include meals outside the dining hall ?

 

Any "tutors " sent up to your room ?

 

I'm guessing American Football, because in soccer everyone's a kicker ;)

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I honestly still don't get why this is such a big deal and warrants Feds coming in like jackbooted thugs with guns drawn.

 

Well, theres bribing people with $MM to break the law.

 

So....

Yeah their regular John Dillingers and Feds should definitely be breaking down doors with guns drawn... Give me a break!

 

BDP!

 

Was Dillinger the guy who broke out of jail with a "gun" he carved out of soap and blackened with shoe polish? Lol.

 

Yeah, I agree the tactics are over done. Prolly to give no warning and prevent destruction of evidence. But also to send a message to other potential hoodlums.

 

Lucky he didn't drop it!

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Don't know if any of you have seen this article:

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/operation-varsity-blues-scam-tipster-college-admissions-808418/?ICID=ref_fark

 

Seems the scandal was brought to light by a guy under investigation for securities fraud in the hopes of getting a lighter sentence.

So that's nice.

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Seems like there are never ending outfits purporting to advise/consult on all subjects under the sun. I have no doubt for some parents or particular students or for insight into particular programs there are third party sources that can provide valuable information and advice. I also know I delete/unsubscribe every darn day emails from service providers who just pummel away with their solicitations for services to sell software to do all sorts of things/consulting on things we already know how to do just fine/even some real stretches on "niches" they pretty much create out of whole cloth and try to convince you need them to help you figure out (one actually somehow got through on the phone the other day and I was polite to a fault, but he just couldn't handle my simply saying "I don't care" when he kept giving me these silly reasons why I needed a consultant to figure out how to save and archive deleted public comments to a Facebook page I manage, actually trying to scare me - little fella made me laugh). So, the overgrowth IMO of the folks that carve out existence to convince you things are really harder than they are and you NEED them to me is regrettable part of the internet landscape in particular.

 

Just a little rant, lol, and I've seen some college advice companies my puppy could outperform, but again I'm sure there are reputable ones that help folks that need the help.

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Don't know if any of you have seen this article:

https://www.rollings.../?ICID=ref_fark

 

Seems the scandal was brought to light by a guy under investigation for securities fraud in the hopes of getting a lighter sentence.

So that's nice.

 

LOL, he'll learn a lot more about pump-and-dump shortly.

 

Have to think any scheme where you are relying in part on college kids not telling anyone what happened was doomed to fail - surprised it lasted as long as it did.

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Does this mean we won't dominate water polo any more?

 

Rotten. Now I've got to rely on women's track. Maybe beach volleyball. Maybe Muni He.

 

I didn't realize it is now so difficult to get into USC. I sent them a writing sample from all my school papers. On the day I showed up from Miami they knew all about me in the journalism department..."Oh, you're the guy with the humongous writing sample. Here, let me return it to you. You were in before we got to the third article."

 

Regarding Phil Mickelson, I don't know any of the details but as I've emphasized here countless times Billy Walters doesn't do anything without a manipulated advantage. I guarantee Walters knows others on all levels and specialties who provide that manipulated advantage.

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I want to know who at the university is collecting all that money? I assume that’s the person in a boatload of trouble.

 

I don't think any university admissions people were named in the indictment.

 

Collegiate coaches were, however.

celebrities were purposefully "chosen" imo as scapegoats so we would all be distracted from the fact that universities promote/accept these practices, both illegally, as well as through legacy institutions.

 

The scam has hit the tour, money creates opportunity for many college golfers. But I doubt this "scam" will spread... to many institutions will fight to contain it

 

This is conjecture. Sources?

For sure conjecture.That's why i included "imo."

 

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Phil getting ahead of this is a smart thing to do. I wonder if Kuchar is as well.......no wait he's too cheap :taunt: With that said, whoever is guilty I hope they get a nice stint in jail. The odds are already stacked against the majority of kids in this country and now this confirmation of a rigged system just proves what most already knew. I love that these things are coming to light. Karma is a b****

 

I heard a rumor Kuchar paid $5,000 to get his kids into a great college in Mexico. Or maybe I'm getting all my stories mixed up :)

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You seem to think it's simply a matter of reading the forms and filling in the answers.

 

If it was, there wouldn't be a thousand businesses that have sprung up to help people do it more successfully.

 

I don't think it's right - I actually think it's become quite bizarre - but I also know that it is what.... it is.

 

How does the average joe (with some sort of successful income and busy life) have the time to learn about what to say on a Harvard application but never on a Yale or Stanford?

 

What's the best angle for Cornell? Duke? Dartmouth?

 

You'd think they'd all "like" the same things.... but they don't. And knowing the right answers (for this year) makes a difference.

No doubt it is what it is.

 

I think part of the issue is Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cornell, Duke, Dartmouth, etc, etc is a very long list and they are all very different (I don't think they all want to hear the same thing). Maybe some people really don't know what's right for them, but I would argue that most people need to have some idea of what they want to do and what type of school (or program/major) is right for them. This would help narrow down the number of things you need to be focused on. It's not hard to write a good essay, know how to answer interview questions, and find out what they are looking for IF its a place that you are truly interested in going to. It becomes a pain when you are just casting out 10 applications because I want to go to "X Class of Schools," but really have no clue what they do or are known for.

 

People have time for and figure out what cell phone to buy, what car to buy, and where to buy a house (which also involves schools) largely without the help of a service like this. Any many people that aren't connected get jobs the same way.

 

I think Hawkeye's post is correct. The industry exists largely because there is a bunch of fear mongering convincing people that they are "missing out." Then as parents you hear that Johnny, Sally, and Jenny's parents are using this service so you feel you need to do it too (who wants to disadvantage or screw their children?).

 

No doubt college applications and enrollments are up, but the process worked just fine before these service providers came around and it would still be working just fine if they never existed. But that's capitalism and it's fine that they exist.

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I honestly still don't get why this is such a big deal and warrants Feds coming in like jackbooted thugs with guns drawn.

 

Well, theres bribing people with $MM to break the law.

 

So....

Based on his other comments, my guess is he's a "platinum member" of these service providers. He's not just finding out that certain things are against the law.

 

I would love to know what he paid for his membership. If he paid $500k or some other absurd figure, It's going to be hard to convince anyone he didn't know what he was paying for. I'm guessing this is going to get ugly or at the very least very embarrassing before all said and done.

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College admission decisions are left up to the universities and are a black box, with the committees having tremendous power. However, many schools go to great lengths for checks and balances and rightly so. Especially at public universities as taxpayer dollars are funding those institutions.

 

Getting into a private university with legal means is no secret and has been going on and continue to do so for years to come. https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/success/college-admissions-parents/index.html

 

Aside from the fraud of SAT/ACT test manipulation and false athletic credentials, however the real fraud here is at the public universities which are public entities. The private universities can accept legacy children of grads or big donors so I think those parents who paid millions for this falsifying did so without having to necessarily having to.

 

Public universities need to be held accountable for taxpayer money is being utilized and they are for the residents of that state primarily. Private entities are private and have more autonomy (although can't participate in fraud as they have in this case.)

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Talked to a friend that used an admissions consult for his daughter. Amazing how sophisticated the services. $7500.00 and whatever application fees for each school you apply.

 

His daughter was straight As but test scores were good but not top level. 28 ACT and 1400s SAT. Anyway, these consultants edited/changed applications - not lying just consulted on what to emphasize and what to leave out. Prepped for tests etc...

 

But apparently they had contacts at every school. She got in her first choice and was accepted at 2 of the 3 she applied. He seems to think it was worth it.

 

 

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Talked to a friend that used an admissions consult for his daughter. Amazing how sophisticated the services. $7500.00 and whatever application fees for each school you apply.

 

His daughter was straight As but test scores were good but not top level. 28 ACT and 1400s SAT. Anyway, these consultants edited/changed applications - not lying just consulted on what to emphasize and what to leave out. Prepped for tests etc...

 

But apparently they had contacts at every school. She got in her first choice and was accepted at 2 of the 3 she applied. He seems to think it was worth it.

That's good that it worked out for them. As you note, the test scores are good, but depending on the schools they are just in the range of "acceptable (not automatically excluded) but need a lot of other good points to standout."

 

But I wonder how much of the service is helped the application and benefited from the random luck (with odds slightly improved) vs. a direct buddy system? Either way, not implying anything negative about your friend.

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Talked to a friend that used an admissions consult for his daughter. Amazing how sophisticated the services. $7500.00 and whatever application fees for each school you apply.

 

His daughter was straight As but test scores were good but not top level. 28 ACT and 1400s SAT. Anyway, these consultants edited/changed applications - not lying just consulted on what to emphasize and what to leave out. Prepped for tests etc...

 

But apparently they had contacts at every school. She got in her first choice and was accepted at 2 of the 3 she applied. He seems to think it was worth it.

That's good that it worked out for them. As you note, the test scores are good, but depending on the schools they are just in the range of "acceptable (not automatically excluded) but need a lot of other good points to standout."

 

But I wonder how much of the service is helped the application and benefited from the random luck (with odds slightly improved) vs. a direct buddy system? Either way, not implying anything negative about your friend.

 

The test prep worked. She bumped 100 points on the SAT and 2 or 3 on ACT. But that could also be helped by taking as a Senior vs Junior.

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Talked to a friend that used an admissions consult for his daughter. Amazing how sophisticated the services. $7500.00 and whatever application fees for each school you apply.

 

His daughter was straight As but test scores were good but not top level. 28 ACT and 1400s SAT. Anyway, these consultants edited/changed applications - not lying just consulted on what to emphasize and what to leave out. Prepped for tests etc...

 

But apparently they had contacts at every school. She got in her first choice and was accepted at 2 of the 3 she applied. He seems to think it was worth it.

That's good that it worked out for them. As you note, the test scores are good, but depending on the schools they are just in the range of "acceptable (not automatically excluded) but need a lot of other good points to standout."

 

But I wonder how much of the service is helped the application and benefited from the random luck (with odds slightly improved) vs. a direct buddy system? Either way, not implying anything negative about your friend.

 

The test prep worked. She bumped 100 points on the SAT and 2 or 3 on ACT. But that could also be helped by taking as a Senior vs Junior.

The test prep is the component I question the least. It's existed for a long time, and while it can theoretically be done by reading some books, it is not exactly the same stuff students do in school or common sense, so probably harder to do oneself. These are also tests that can be gamed a bit and you definitely benefit from repetition.

 

Would be interesting to know what the implied hourly rate is for test training, edit essays, etc.

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Talked to a friend that used an admissions consult for his daughter. Amazing how sophisticated the services. $7500.00 and whatever application fees for each school you apply.

 

His daughter was straight As but test scores were good but not top level. 28 ACT and 1400s SAT. Anyway, these consultants edited/changed applications - not lying just consulted on what to emphasize and what to leave out. Prepped for tests etc...

 

But apparently they had contacts at every school. She got in her first choice and was accepted at 2 of the 3 she applied. He seems to think it was worth it.

That's good that it worked out for them. As you note, the test scores are good, but depending on the schools they are just in the range of "acceptable (not automatically excluded) but need a lot of other good points to standout."

 

But I wonder how much of the service is helped the application and benefited from the random luck (with odds slightly improved) vs. a direct buddy system? Either way, not implying anything negative about your friend.

 

The test prep worked. She bumped 100 points on the SAT and 2 or 3 on ACT. But that could also be helped by taking as a Senior vs Junior.

 

Many kids take the ACT several times before the “official” one - good practice.

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as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.

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When will the obligatory "where there is smoke the is fire" comment show up?

 

Already has, several times from a few, lol.

 

Anyway, mostly for the benefit of the OP and those chirpers, again, here is the list, published previously, it's all the smoke and all the fire and no Tour members I can find. Stupid thread.

 

https://www.justice....-bribery-scheme

 

He helped over 750 families. You could have just read this the other day: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-mastermind-says-he-helped-nearly-800-families-admissions-n982666

 

Stupid comment.

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Yep, the idea the kids didn't know won't hold much as an argument, especially the fake athletes and the ones who faked their disabilities, and on and on.

 

I guess I don’t get as outraged as some since there is such an abundance of “students” attending college just to bide their time until the NFL or NBA. They’re no more students than Loughlins daughter is an athlete.

 

The money is just com8ng from a different source. TV money paid for athletic programs, or TV money paid by an actress mom.

 

I think the difference is the athletic money is going to the schools whereas the actress mom is going to corrupt officials. Not agreeing or disagreeing with either.

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Here are the names, you could have read them yesterday. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme

 

Let me know which ones are the Tour players.

 

I read it already, but thanks. He helped 761 families. Here is his admission. You could have read it a couple days ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-mastermind-says-he-helped-nearly-800-families-admissions-n982666

 

But, by your logic, all investigation ceases as soon as charges are filed. Got it.

 

I asked if it will affect tour players based on Phil's comment. I never said any were involved. Perhaps re-read my OP to refresh your memory.

 

I have nothing against Phil, but he brought it up. Show me a statement from Vaughn Taylor on the subject, and I'll edit my original post just for you.

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Let's see Phil hated taxes as he stated ... a true good sign ( college scam used as tax deduction which will nail them)

Known for gambling addiction .. not good sign

Went into business with convicted for stock fraud Billy Walters ... a horrible sign

Now mentions this scam ... a true sign, he is a cheat

 

Sure Phil, you didn't know a thing about this guy LOL

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Honestly this is no big deal for private colleges. They can take whoever they want. They will pay if you can't afford to go and are smart. They will get kids in the door if their parents have money to donate to the school endowment. USC's endowment is $5.5 Billion. They don't need to charge a penny for anyone to attend. All this is really doing is getting the SATs up for borderline test score rich kids, so that when the stats come out in US News the average SAT looks great. And if they pay enough maybe their kid gets to be on a sports team.

 

Fact - if you have $500k+ in loose change to give to a college then your kids probably won't even need a real job. We aren't talking the tuition here. We are talking loose change to donate, then pay the tuition. They get some investment gig from a friend in private equity, and as long as they are adequate nobody will be the wiser.

 

Now when this happens at publicly funded schools, big issue.

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as much as i hate to agree with him.. The governor of California just blew the doors off this in my opinion on the cbs early show by saying that this is small potatoes compared to the LEGAL way this happens every day with Legacy donors etc ...Donating $100mil to get a building named after you, all the while with expectations that your grandchild will get a "call back" and later acceptance . I see no real difference at the root ... And he said same... Said this needs a deeper dive to stop all the donation related acceptance... I agree . fix it all or shut up.

Who cares really if people are outraged over rich kids getting into universities. That is like saying hot chicks attract rich guys. It's obvious.

 

The hardest part about an elite university is GETTING IN, not graduating. I work in this area and if all these kids who got admitted couldn't cut the mustard they wouldn't have graduated, but the fact is that the rigor of a bachelors degree (non-technical like engineering) is not appreciably higher at public university over an Ivy League. Thus, these kids graduate and make their way in the world as an alumnus. The real trick is just getting in and people can and do go to great lengths, because they know they can graduate once in, but the hard part is getting in.

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Honestly this is no big deal for private colleges. They can take whoever they want. They will pay if you can't afford to go and are smart. They will get kids in the door if their parents have money to donate to the school endowment. USC's endowment is $5.5 Billion. They don't need to charge a penny for anyone to attend. All this is really doing is getting the SATs up for borderline test score rich kids, so that when the stats come out in US News the average SAT looks great. And if they pay enough maybe their kid gets to be on a sports team.

 

Fact - if you have $500k+ in loose change to give to a college then your kids probably won't even need a real job. We aren't talking the tuition here. We are talking loose change to donate, then pay the tuition. They get some investment gig from a friend in private equity, and as long as they are adequate nobody will be the wiser.

 

Now when this happens at publicly funded schools, big issue.

Agree ... but cannot deduct a known scam as taxable income. This will bury them.

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Of course the real crime in all this is academia convincing students that some useless degree like art history, music or some other liberal arts degree etc is worth $60k per year. Then the student is under a mountain of debt without being given a trade that will provide a positive ROI on their education.

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      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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