X-stiff or stiff

[rgk5]

You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it :)

haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.

 

There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.

 

Yes, there are exceptions but generally weight is much more important than flex. But there is no way to know or even guess at what point the OP will be 'pushing' it or not.

 

A corollary to flex not being generally as important is that there is no ideal or right or wrong amount of loading in a shaft. There is nothing wrong with not getting a certain amount or very much loading in a shaft if it happens to be "too stiff" compared to what most people expect - as long as the feel doesn't cause problems with the swing. And that's where the exceptions come to play. And there certainly are people who have to get a certain feel out of the shaft in order to get good results. For those people too stiff and too soft are very important things that need to be avoided.

 

But just because some people have that problem and might push themselves too much when they get a shaft that feels too stiff doesn't mean everyone will. Lots of folks can still continue to put a good consistent swing on the shaft even if it might be considered too stiff by some others. And even for those that do, the point at which it becomes too stiff is going to be different for everyone.

 

In fact, I think it was Sneed who couldn't stand to feel ANY give or loading in the shaft and made them as stiff as he possibly could.

 

That is exactly why asking to be "fit" on golf forum is a fool's errand. I based my opinion based on seeing hundreds of golfers trying drivers each year for the last 16 years and generally my observation is in the ball park but not 100%. He really should see a good fitting salon because as mentioned, shaft loading is critical as is weight.

[mizunotpz]

You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it :)

haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.

 

There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.

I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.

[cardoustie]

Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.

 

The Oban purple 55x is awesome. AD DI 6x also awesome. Oban Revenge 6x is a beaut. I HAVE a shaft hoarding problem

 

I also like Aldila NV 55x, Aldila Nasty Long 60x, a Blueboard 63x is AMAZING (I swing my 3w at 100 with that shaft)

 

Like you I find softer X's work best and don't mind lighter

 

Lots of lighter X stuff on the bay, just scoop one and have a fitter glue on a Ping adapter to the tip .. adapters also all over the bay

[mizunotpz]

Has nothing to do with ego my friend. Just want to try something different and this is a good opportunity to do it. Its primarily the head Im the most interested in, since Ive heard a lot of good stuff about that head. And I also like to feel the shaft during the swing. This might be a good way to experiment with that. But thanks for your input, that and other answers here shows us that we are all different. Only Mark Crossfield can swing any shaft and adjust hahaha

[cardoustie]

For your 100MPH Swing Speed, Stiff is just perfect for you. Your swing speed has to be at least 110 to handle xstiff. But that is ultimately up to you, if that xstiff feels fine to you, then go with it.

 

That is 100% not true. There is no MPH hard and fast rule on X flex. X flexes come in a massive variety of profiles, many of which are softer at the tip end - which makes loading a snap for the right player

[cardoustie]

Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.

 

I forgot to mention the smoothest X flex ever .. Fujikura tour spec 660TR .... like buttah

[mizunotpz]

On the True Temper website they state that x flex in graphite shafts starts around 100 depending on the swing type.

[rgk5]

You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it :)

haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.

 

There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.

I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.

 

Well if that is the case, you do not need the advice of anyone here, do you? You also misread the message in the Callaway reference. The weight finding made no mention of bend profile, or tip stiffness. All of these are difficlut to accurately fit with a keyboard. I've said my piece and I wish you good luck in your search. :taunt:

[mizunotpz]

You'll be fine with that shaft. I've hovered between 100 - 110 for years now and have always played x-flex shafts, in nearly all clubs.....just more confidence to go after it :)

haha, thats what Im thinking. Trying to find more fairways this season. Thanks for your input. If you never try youll never find out.

 

There is a huge difference between 100 and 110 mph. At 102 you are pushing yourself with the Diamana +. A consistent and smooth 105+ would be better or a lighter shaft like the VA Composites Raijin 44 in X flex. Callaway's extensive robot and low handicap swing tests determined that shaft weight is much more important than flex.

I think you contradict yourself a little. You say no way I can game that shaft, and then you say Callaway robot testing has proved that weight has a bigger impact than flex. You might be right, maybe thats not the flex for me. But its a profile of a shaft Ive been successful with in the past.

 

Well if that is the case, you do not need the advice of anyone here, do you? You also misread the message in the Callaway reference. The weight finding made no mention of bend profile, or tip stiffness. All of these are difficlut to accurately fit with a keyboard. I've said my piece and I wish you good luck in your search. :taunt:

I didnt misread anything. I know what you meant, maybe you should check what you actually said, about shaft weight being more important than flex. Im very grateful for all the input and advice from everyone here, dont know what you mean by that. You sound a little offended and i dont know why.

[mizunotpz]

Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.

[PunkGolfWRX]

it honestly comes down to preference and #'s. But the standard for xstiff is usually 110ish and up.

 

There is no real standard, those are just guidelines. Really depends on the player and how they load the shaft. Profile matters as well.

 

Exactly!

My SS over the years has dropped from 115 to around 107 and at a recent fitting was expecting to see stiffs perform better but the way I hit it, the x is still right for me, at least in the low spin/launch cat.

[Bkonja02]

Hey guys, good thread going on here and I am in a similar dilemma. My SS is generally between 105-109 and Ive been playing stiff shafts that were on the lighter end (around 55g) for a long time. I'm a smaller guy around 5'5 but have always been able to move the ball out there a good way(295 average). Being smaller, ive always felt much more comfortable in the lighter shafts bc once I get into the 65-75g range the club kinda starts swinging me so to speak. Ive always been a Ping man... And there stock stiff 55g shafts are always pretty decent but have a tendency (for me) to be fairly "whippy". Natural ball flight is a mid to mid-high draw...and with the stock stiff I tend to hook the ball far too often. Ive messed with some aftermarket shafts such as the Fujikura Vista pro stiff 55g and found the same issue. Ive been looking into the lighter x-stiff shafts... And even hit a bucket with a friends Taylormade M3 with a Tensei CK50 x-stiff and loved how the shaft felt but it wasnt in my Ping G400 LST. Anyone have thoughts on a good lighter x-stiff shaft? Ive read on here about the Graphite Design AD IZ 5x, Kuro Kage tini, Atmos Red etc... But see if anyone had some feedback before I pulled the trigger on anything.

 

I forgot to mention the smoothest X flex ever .. Fujikura tour spec 660TR .... like buttah

[Bkonja02]

Cardoustie...Thank you for both of your responses to my post and not getting caught up in the hornets-nest of posts surrounding it! I was on the bay a few days ago looking into all of the aldila options you listed and the AD options as well. I was straying away from the Fujikura only bc of my bad "whippy" experience I had with the Vista Pro... (Not saying its a poor shaft whatsoever for anyone reading this...just my personal experience)... But I'm gonna look into this Tour Spec 660TR since you've mentioned it (the "like buttah" reference sounds like me talking) I'm going to a local fitting location to test as many of these out as I can... I'm gonna have a list of what I would like to test and let them assess my swing and test what they suggest as well. I will follow-up on this thread with results.

[KevCannon]

When i saw thread title i had a feeling there would be some healthy debating going on...lol.

I personally feel like swing speed is only a rough starting point to use when fitting people for shafts. Anyone that uses ONLY swing speed to give recommendations when fitting, technically isn’t a very good club fitter in my opinion. This is what beginner level fitters do at big box stores (golf galaxy, Dicks,PGA SS) because the goal is to fit as many customers as possible to generate more revenue. Not hating the business model just stating facts. My buddy works at a Golf galaxy and will readily admit he isn’t a great club fitter lol.

SS, swing tempo, and player’s release is a major factor i believe. Not to mention there is no industry standard for what is a stiff or extra stiff flex. So as most know, 1 company’s stiff shaft could feel like a regular flex in another, or even an extra stiff in another. I always played stiff flex everything until a few years ago. My skill level also did improve a decent amount, but I hit a friends extra stiff driver shaft on course one day and my ball was 30 yards further than the drive with my gamer stiff flex. This led me to really take a second look and start trying various shafts and extra stiff was far and away better for me. At the time i was between 100-105 mph with driver, and that change alone gained me distance, and accuracy. SS is now between 108-112 mph but i may never have gotten there without that testing. Just my thoughts.

[AutomaticTwoDown]

Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.

You asked the forum, so anyone is allowed to reply. If you only want answers from specific people, then send them PMs.

 

And it’s clear that you have a problem with anyone who recommended a stiff shaft. So I don’t even know why you asked the question in the first place.

[Pi5seeker]

I had an iron fitting and was told I'm between a stiff and x-stiff but the most important thing would be weight. The Mizuno DNA suggested something in the 120+ weight range and I settled on the Project X LZ 6.0.

 

I've since debated trying x-stiff in my driver or at the very least a stiffer profile to see if it improves my dispersion. Ultimately it comes down to weight and feel before anything IMO.

[11forgedblades]

Everyone is different. Depends on how you like clubs to FEEL. Boardy or whippy. Ping eye 2's used to all have x stiff shafts for men,women, seniors...and millions of golfers played great with them. I have a higher swing speed that you (around 110 mph with driver) and now play stiff in driver, and regular/stiff in my irons. Last year I played much stiffer in all of my clubs but I'm starting to prefer a softer feel all around. I'm sure x stiff wouldn't be that much of a problem on a light weight shaft like that. JB Holmes plays stiff flex in his irons and he's one of the longest hitters on tour.

[mizunotpz]

Ive learned from Stuart G before, he knows a lot about this sutff, I also felt that most posters had the same opinion as him, you being the exception. When I post a question I listen to the people who has the most knowledge and best arguments, in this case this wasnt you rgk5.

You asked the forum, so anyone is allowed to reply. If you only want answers from specific people, then send them PMs.

 

And it's clear that you have a problem with anyone who recommended a stiff shaft. So I don't even know why you asked the question in the first place.

I dont have a problem with people recommending stiff flex, I just wanted to learn from all the knowledge out here. But maybe it was wrong of me to only mention Stuart, cause I did get other interesting views from other posters. But I dont get why you had to get into the argument, cause you didnt have anything to contribute with besides negativity.

[baloo]

I think the obvious answer is you have to try it to know for sure.

If the deal is great just buy it and even if you don't like the shaft you'll have a nice driver head to show for it.