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Fighting Gravity and THE Club Weight


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What is happening here? lol

 

That is the right question! No clue!

 

2 camps of golf scientists have divergent viewpoints on forces/torques in the golf swing. Unfortunately since direct measurement of these force/torques aren't being done (except by some guy in Japan with a so called million dollar grip), inverse dynamics are being used to figure out what these forces/torques are. One camp believes that the only forces/torques are being applied at the handle via the golfer, the other side believes that the motion of the COM can also induce some of these forces/torques in addition to what the golfer applies - thus the disagreement in pretty simplistic terms - anyone can freely jump in an correct this simplistic view, please.

 

https://player.fm/series/the-golf-guru-show/ep-43-michael-finney-alpha-wars-live

 

https://player.fm/series/the-golf-guru-show/ep-42-brian-manzella-alpha-wars-live

 

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There's a weird, insecure defensiveness that tends to infect these threads for some reason. See the same thing with blade/CB debates. Makes them very uncomfortable to read, doesn't it?

[size=2][i]"I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"[/i][/size]

[size=2]-Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom[/size]

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If the club just fell from gravity, it'd never get to the ball and would be traveling extremely slowly. Gravity has a negligible affect and has been discussed plenty. To get the club to shallow players are actually applying a force on the handle in opposite direction of gravity. The golfer is the one who applies the force that makes the club move.

 

I just don't get how you can use the term gravity in your description but say it has little to do in the swing.

 

Gravity is a force.

 

Yes it is a force. One that is extremely tiny compared to the other forces at play. Which is exactly why I said it’s negligible.

 

A tiny force? Literally the entire swing is opposing gravity. It’s what’s keeping you on the ground lol. Little?

 

I’d love to hear more about physics from a golf instructor. Let me get some popcorn. This is gonnabe good!

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Pretty sure we have the same 2 people posting this whole arcane debate using multiple screen names :lol:

[size=2][i]"I see the distorted swings, the hurried rounds, and now the electric carts tae ruin the course and rob us of our exercise...we have gone off the mark, gone after the wrong things, forgotten what it's all about"[/i][/size]

[size=2]-Dr. Julian Sands, Golf in the Kingdom[/size]

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If the club just fell from gravity, it'd never get to the ball and would be traveling extremely slowly. Gravity has a negligible affect and has been discussed plenty. To get the club to shallow players are actually applying a force on the handle in opposite direction of gravity. The golfer is the one who applies the force that makes the club move.

 

I just don't get how you can use the term gravity in your description but say it has little to do in the swing.

 

Gravity is a force.

 

Yes it is a force. One that is extremely tiny compared to the other forces at play. Which is exactly why I said it's negligible.

 

A tiny force? Literally the entire swing is opposing gravity. It’s what’s keeping you on the ground lol. Little?

 

I’d love to hear more about physics from a golf instructor. Let me get some popcorn. This is gonnabe good!

 

 

You're on the ground but the club isn't most of the swing do you think Gravity is so strong it prevents you from swinging it?

 

Try hitting a ball while floating. See how much power you can generate.

 

When you hear people say “I use the ground to generate leverage and create speed.” They are talking about gravity.

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I know basically nothing about gravity. I know basically nothing about physics yet I’m fascinated by what’s going on here.

 

Only constructive thing I could say is Alpha Man try not to be so abrasive in your posts. The mods only tolerate so much of that style posting before banning the poster.

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Can’t believe a Flat Earther hasn’t come in here and tried to debunk gravity altogether yet!

 

 

No one is trying to debunk Gravity, it just isn't that relevant in the act of swinging a golf club, the math proves it, all the phd's agree on this only some ignorant of the scientific proven facts wxr's would go on about how it's so important in swinging a club... news flash it's not that important, even a 5th grader could understand this fact.

 

This is going nowhere. Believe in your unicorns and antigravity propaganda. Doesn’t change the fact that you can not hit a golf ball more than 100 yards without gravity. Like I said before....try hitting a ball while floating and get back with me.

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Can’t believe a Flat Earther hasn’t come in here and tried to debunk gravity altogether yet!

 

 

No one is trying to debunk Gravity, it just isn't that relevant in the act of swinging a golf club, the math proves it, all the phd's agree on this only some ignorant of the scientific proven facts wxr's would go on about how it's so important in swinging a club... news flash it's not that important, even a 5th grader could understand this fact.

 

This is going nowhere. Believe in your unicorns and antigravity propaganda. Doesn’t change the fact that you can not hit a golf ball more than 100 yards without gravity. Like I said before....try hitting a ball while floating and get back with me.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Science-Golf-Swing-Michael-Jacobs/dp/1797556339

 

 

 

Get back to me when you just let go of the club at the top and let Gravity do all the work see if you get that 100 yds. I'm thinking the club nose dives into the ground over your lead shoulder. Plus Gravity can't do the angular work so you would never get to the ball with just gravity...2d world!

 

I’m not sure anyone has said gravity hits the ball. I def didn’t say that. But based on what I’m reading you among others including 1 or 2 instructors have said gravity’s role within a golf swing is minuscule at best. THIS is completely false.

 

I think it’s safe to say everyone that’s EVER swung a golf Club knows that gravity alone is not going to hit the ball....

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No it's not false and it's all the phd's and more who have actually done the math that have proven it. Gravity is negligible in the swinging the club but keeping you on earth is not the same thing, apples and oranges.

 

Negative. What’s apples to oranges is what YOU want to fit YOUR narrative. If you want to break it down to segments of the golf swing that’s 1 thing. But if we are talking generalities, YOU CAN NOT PLAY GOLF OR HIT A GOLF BALL WITHOUT GRAVITY. I would go as far to say gravity is just as important as your hands, arms, club shaft and club head in regards to hitting a golf ball.

 

This isn’t complicated and I don’t understand why you keep talking about PHD’s.....this is common sense dude.

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No it's not false and it's all the phd's and more who have actually done the math that have proven it. Gravity is negligible in the swinging the club but keeping you on earth is not the same thing, apples and oranges.

 

Negative. Whatâ€â„¢s apples to oranges is what YOU want to fit YOUR narrative. If you want to break it down to segments of the golf swing thatâ€â„¢s 1 thing. But if we are talking generalities, YOU CAN NOT PLAY GOLF OR HIT A GOLF BALL WITHOUT GRAVITY. I would go as far to say gravity is just as important as your hands, arms, club shaft and club head in regards to hitting a golf ball.

 

This isnâ€â„¢t complicated and I donâ€â„¢t understand why you keep talking about PHDâ€â„¢s.....this is common sense dude.

 

 

You might be talking generalities but I'm not. I'm talking about how much of a role in swinging a club does Gravity play.... it plays an insignificant role. I was clear from the start and haven't changed. It isn't common sense... thus this thread. I'll take the word of all the phd's and the 2 or 3 instructors here who have actually done the work and know this to be fact.

 

Ok well as far as the instructors on a golf forum who post their OPINIONS are sometimes as reliable as snake oil. Still haven’t seen any “PHD†say anything about gravity is insignificant in a golf swing.

 

I gave you an easy experiment to test yours, the PHDs and the instructors theory on gravity in a Golf swing. Suspend yourself and hit a golf ball. Maybe you should start believing what you see instead of what you hear. That’s how you get into trouble. This isn’t complicated.

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No it's not false and it's all the phd's and more who have actually done the math that have proven it. Gravity is negligible in the swinging the club but keeping you on earth is not the same thing, apples and oranges.

 

Negative. Whatâ€â„¢s apples to oranges is what YOU want to fit YOUR narrative. If you want to break it down to segments of the golf swing thatâ€â„¢s 1 thing. But if we are talking generalities, YOU CAN NOT PLAY GOLF OR HIT A GOLF BALL WITHOUT GRAVITY. I would go as far to say gravity is just as important as your hands, arms, club shaft and club head in regards to hitting a golf ball.

 

This isnâ€â„¢t complicated and I donâ€â„¢t understand why you keep talking about PHDâ€â„¢s.....this is common sense dude.

 

 

You might be talking generalities but I'm not. I'm talking about how much of a role in swinging a club does Gravity play.... it plays an insignificant role. I was clear from the start and haven't changed. It isn't common sense... thus this thread. I'll take the word of all the phd's and the 2 or 3 instructors here who have actually done the work and know this to be fact.

 

Ok well as far as the instructors on a golf forum who post their OPINIONS are sometimes as reliable as snake oil. Still haven’t seen any “PHD†say anything about gravity is insignificant in a golf swing.

 

I gave you an easy experiment to test yours, the PHDs and the instructors theory on gravity in a Golf swing. Suspend yourself and hit a golf ball. Maybe you should start believing what you see instead of what you hear. That’s how you get into trouble. This isn’t complicated.

 

 

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

 

 

Maybe you should. How can he swing the club while Gravity is in it's glory? He's not even on the ground...hmmmm? Maybe there's forces at work that are greater then Gravity!

 

He didn’t hit a ball!? You can also do flips and spins and pick your nose while being suspended. if anything this is great example of you have ZERO idea of what you’re even talking about anymore lol.

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Forewood:

 

 

Hardly, you can hit a golf ball while suspended and you can swing a club while jumping off a pretty high diving board into a pool. Proves Gravity is insignificant in swinging a club which is what I said all along! His swing looks as good as some who are on the ground...lol!

 

NOONE said you can’t make a motion of a golf swing while being suspended.....you keep changing the narrative or going in circles.

 

HIT A GOLF BALL WHILE SUSPENDED and then hit one while attached to earth. Then mathematically tell me why the data is so different without mentioning gravity.....

 

*Spoiler alert* YOU CANT!

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Comos demonstration was about friction and GRF.

 

 

Yeah but he was swinging the club while Gravity was doing it's thing and that was Forewoods big experiment to disprove what I was saying.

 

Not even close! Bro you’re not even paying attention anymore. If gravity was insignificant then all the PGA pros would jump up in the air and hit their shots. It’s not like gravity has anything to do with balance, downward force, change of direction, power, consistency, stability, etc...

 

This thread is dead.

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Como was freefalling while swinging a golf club. This is similar in swinging a golf club in the ISS without strapping your feet. You use your core muscles, the torso turning counterclockwise while the lower body turning clockwise - Newton's Third Law as applied to torques. We can observe this in an ice hockey player doing a slap shot on ice.

 

Of course, GRF's are important in a golf swing. Earth gravity provides friction at the feet. The loading and unloading through flexion and extension also energizes our swings and that employs gravitational potential energy. But we should not confuse the G's we feel in our hands while swinging with earth gravity.

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Comos demonstration was about friction and GRF.

 

 

Yeah but he was swinging the club while Gravity was doing it's thing and that was Forewoods big experiment to disprove what I was saying.

 

Not even close! Bro you’re not even paying attention anymore. If gravity was insignificant then all the PGA pros would jump up in the air and hit their shots. It’s not like gravity has anything to do with balance, downward force, change of direction, power, consistency, stability, etc...

 

This thread is dead.

 

 

In swinging a club we do the work, change the direction, produce the power etc. It's coming from us! What about the angular work explain how gravity does that? actually some pros do jump in the air while hitting. Another example of defying Gravity.

 

You don’t realize how ridiculous your statements are at this point. With your logic it’s like saying the paint or the lead of a pencil has nothing to do with the drawing or the painting. It’s ONLY the artists hands.

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Como was freefalling while swinging a golf club. This is similar in swinging a golf club in the ISS without strapping your feet. You use your core muscles, the torso turning counterclockwise while the lower body turning clockwise - Newton's Third Law as applied to torques. We can observe this in an ice hockey player doing a slap shot on ice.

 

Of course, GRF's are important in a golf swing. Earth gravity provides friction at the feet. The loading and unloading through flexion and extension also energizes our swings and that employs gravitational potential energy. But we should not confuse the G's we feel in our hands while swinging with earth gravity.

 

This is the entire debate! I agree 10000000% with what you just posted! Its amazing that ANYONE including golf instructors would suggest gravity plays an insignificant role in a golf swing!

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The original post was about allowing gravity to make the club fall and further, the arms to fall. That is the context I believe was being discussed...and gravity having very little affect on that was the point “golf instructors” were trying to make...

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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The original post was about allowing gravity to make the club fall and further, the arms to fall. That is the context I believe was being discussed...and gravity having very little affect on that was the point “golf instructors” were trying to make...

 

I certainly hope that’s the case. But I read several times “gravity plays an insignificant role in the golf swingâ€. - that statement couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

I will also say I wasn’t referring to you Monte. Unless Alpha man was...he mentioned several PHDs and 2-3 golf instructors in this forum believe gravity is an insignificant factor in a golf swing....that’s one way to lose credibility.

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The original post was about allowing gravity to make the club fall and further, the arms to fall. That is the context I believe was being discussed...and gravity having very little affect on that was the point golf instructors were trying to make...

 

I certainly hope that’s the case. But I read several times “gravity plays an insignificant role in the golf swing”. - that statement couldn’t be further from the truth.

 

I will also say I wasn’t referring to you Monte. Unless Alpha Man was...he mentioned something about PHD’s and 2-3 golf instructors in this forum believed the same thing.

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I just wanted to be clear on what I meant. I have said those words before where it sounds like I’m saying no affect at all. I always mean just in this case.

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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