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Focus on ball or target?


Wesquire

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....At the PHX clinic were you one of the many that said they putt without thought? ...... 

 

It takes practice. I need much more practice myself. Really hard when you are trying to make swing changes.

 

Can you clear your mind just sitting in a quiet room by yourself?

Golfing Ginger
So glad I picked an outside activity...

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....
At the PHX clinic were you one of the many that said they putt without thought? ...... 

 

It takes practice. I need much more practice myself. Really hard when you are trying to make swing changes.

 

Can you clear your mind just sitting in a quiet room by yourself?In a quiet room I have a difficult time clearing my mind.  When I putt I’m thinking about stuff.. mostly rhythm and tempo 

G400 LST - TPT proto
TM M3 - Rogue Silver 110MSI 70S
21* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
4 - PW Mizuno MP 18 MMC - SteelFiber FC115
50, 54, 60 RC Dual Bite - SteelFiber i125
Evnroll ER5
Snell MTB Black

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....
At the PHX clinic were you one of the many that said they putt without thought? ...... 

 

It takes practice. I need much more practice myself. Really hard when you are trying to make swing changes.

 

Can you clear your mind just sitting in a quiet room by yourself?

In a quiet room I have a difficult time clearing my mind.  When I putt I’m thinking about stuff.. mostly rhythm and tempo Rhythm and tempo aren't the worst things to think about. But, I believe a clear mind is better.

 

Try clearing your mind for just a couple seconds at a time, then for longer periods, then at the range.

Golfing Ginger
So glad I picked an outside activity...

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....
At the PHX clinic were you one of the many that said they putt without thought? ...... 

 

It takes practice. I need much more practice myself. Really hard when you are trying to make swing changes.

 

Can you clear your mind just sitting in a quiet room by yourself?

In a quiet room I have a difficult time clearing my mind.  When I putt I’m thinking about stuff.. mostly rhythm and tempo Rhythm and tempo aren't the worst things to think about. But, I believe a clear mind is better.

 

Try clearing your mind for just a couple seconds at a time, then for longer periods, then at the range.So when you say clear your mind.  Like you seriously aren’t consciously thinking about anything? 

G400 LST - TPT proto
TM M3 - Rogue Silver 110MSI 70S
21* Fourteen Type 7 Driving Iron - HZRDUS Black 6.5 105g
4 - PW Mizuno MP 18 MMC - SteelFiber FC115
50, 54, 60 RC Dual Bite - SteelFiber i125
Evnroll ER5
Snell MTB Black

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When playing my best, neither.

I've already aligned and picked my shot. The ball isn't going anywhere. The target isn't either. 

So, I just clear my head, take a breath and swing.

Swing with an empty mind.  What a feeling that must be.....
At the PHX clinic were you one of the many that said they putt without thought? ...... 

 

It takes practice. I need much more practice myself. Really hard when you are trying to make swing changes.

 

Can you clear your mind just sitting in a quiet room by yourself?

In a quiet room I have a difficult time clearing my mind.  When I putt I’m thinking about stuff.. mostly rhythm and tempo Rhythm and tempo aren't the worst things to think about. But, I believe a clear mind is better.

 

Try clearing your mind for just a couple seconds at a time, then for longer periods, then at the range.So when you say clear your mind.  Like you seriously aren’t consciously thinking about anything? In a nutshell, yes.

 

I believe people call it different names but I "think" the principle is the same. Meditative state, open mind, clear head, the zone, full awareness, quieting the mind, and so forth.  The phrase that resonates with me most is "just exsisting". 

 

To be clear, I am talking about the fleeting moments between getting fully set, and finishing the swing. 

 

The meta-awareness thread delved into a lot of this, but there was a lot of clutter there as well.

 

However, when I remove conscious thought from the equation, it allows me to detach myself from the result much easier. I'm also much more aware of any mistake I might have made. 

Golfing Ginger
So glad I picked an outside activity...

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I've heard folks say the swing time associated with a round of golf takes 7 minutes. I find attempting to think about nothing once I'm set to swing reduces my tension and I often hit better. Its not that long a time. Then I can go back to grumbling about my poor lie and where the ball ended up. Then it starts again. Find ball, analyse lie, pick club. The thoughts stop when I actually swing. I used to practice what I've heard called "walking meditation", tried to slow the thoughts while brushing my teeth or waiting for the bus. It does work with practice. Sure helps when I wake up at 2 am.

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I've been trying something recently that I believe falls in this category of clearing your mind.  I've done this both with full shots and putts.  What I've been doing is after I've taken my stance and set up to the target line, I focus on my target and while taking in a breath I let my eyes start to wonder directly above the target and try to look at something off in the distance, a tree, a cloud, cell phone tower, anything.  Whatever object I focus on is still in line with target just above it in the sky. Then I bring my eyes back down to the ball and start my take away.  
I've found then I can begin my swing with no thoughts because my brain is focusing on the object out in the distance.  What this also does if I'm hitting an iron shot for instance, is after I make contact and begin the follow through most of the time my eyes will then focus on that same object off in the distance and a good amount of time the ball will follow that target line and pass through the object I focused on in the distance.

Driver - Callaway Epic Max LS 9.0
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I believe its pretty important to keep your head relatively still while you swing.  For me, that's best done by focusing on the ball.  I can't say its a really conscious choice, but I believe I'm thinking of swinging directly through the ball's location.  If I'm thinking of the target throughout my swing, my head will be moving way too much, and crisp contact will suffer.  So I focus on the ball.

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The issue to me isn't ball or target.    It's what works for the person to keep all the potentially destructive thoughts out of their mind.

If you can focus on the ball great.   If target, great.    If you hum, great.    Whatever it takes to not think about the result, some body part, etc.    I term it the, don't give a crap or just hit the ball.   Clear the mind, easily said, hard in reality.

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.
Enjoy every sandwich

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is that you don’t know you are a member.   The second rule is that we’re all members from time to time.

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> @LASSIEGOHOME said:

> The better you are the more distant the target focus. **But whatever your level of proficiency , the focus should be external (ie. no focus on movement of a body part ). ** For example, moving weight pressure on your lead leg is an 'internal focus' , but if you changed focus intent to 'bracing into and turning against' an imagined vertical wall inside the outer perimeters of your lead foot/knee , then that would be an 'external focus'. The previous example would apply for more novice golfers because the focus would be closer to you , whereas a pga pro would probably be focusing somewhere in the distance , even imagining where the ball will bounce on a specific point and rolling (ie. a distant 'intent' picture movie in their head).

 

It can be either internal or external, pro or am. Depends on the individual.

 

Hunter Mahan

"Pretend there's a pressure gauge under your left foot and push down as hard as you can as you bring the club down."

 

Adam Scott

"Whatever I'm working on, I like to keep one swing thought in my head when I'm on the course. Keeping it simple helped me at the Deutsche Bank Championship in Boston last year. Thinking only about getting to my left side, I shot 62 Friday and won my first PGA Tour event."

 

Keegan Bradley

"I focus on my facial muscles. When you can get your mouth to relax, your whole body relaxes."

 

Rory McIlroy

"Under pressure, I do use one simple swing thought: I pick a spot a foot in front of the ball and hit over it -- hard. That takes my mind off the outcome of the shot and keeps me in the process."

 

 

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Something I worked hard on my last round was just focusing on making a good swing. Over each shot I said to myself, "make your best swing or trust it". No joke, every single time I did that I hit a really good shot or if I did miss...it was still on the green or fairway. When I didn't because I'm ADD and forgot...my shot wasn't very good. It's something Monte preaches...try to do better on each swing and make the best swing you can. It's not easy and I constantly forget to do it but when I do...it works wonders. Copperjeff was there at a local club when I was actually able to do it for a full 8 holes....went something like 41-34 with a bogey on the last. Target is irrelevant and so is the ball. You assess your lie....figure the shot you want to hit and align for that shot and just make the best swing you can letting the ball get in the way.

Driver: Sim2 with Ventus Blue 6x
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> @LASSIEGOHOME said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > _"Target is irrelevant"_

> >

> > Tend to agree with this after you've established what your target is and have set your line. Why focus on something 200 yards away when the work to be done is right in front of you?

>

> It has been researched quite a bit and the results show that even scratch golfers performance is enhanced the more distal the focus on their intended outcome. 'Distant external target outcome focus' won't work well on novice golfers because the outcome has got to be 'achievable' . If your not used to achieving your intent , then you will move into 'fear' mode (kiss of death mindset).

 

Of course. Why would you want to listen to what golfers who get results do when you can read research papers.

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> @LASSIEGOHOME said:

> > @oikos1 said:

> > > @LASSIEGOHOME said:

> > > > @oikos1 said:

> > > > _"Target is irrelevant"_

> > > >

> > > > Tend to agree with this after you've established what your target is and have set your line. Why focus on something 200 yards away when the work to be done is right in front of you?

> > >

> > > It has been researched quite a bit and the results show that even scratch golfers performance is enhanced the more distal the focus on their intended outcome. 'Distant external target outcome focus' won't work well on novice golfers because the outcome has got to be 'achievable' . If your not used to achieving your intent , then you will move into 'fear' mode (kiss of death mindset).

> >

> > Of course. Why would you want to listen to what golfers who get results do when you can read research papers.

>

> Bubba Watson

> "The key is that you have to think about the shot, and when I say that, I mean you have to think about your target, not your swing. You don't want your mind to create the bad shot. You want to think about your target, and that's all you want to think about. You have to think about the target and not focus on anything else.

>

> Luke Donald

> "I might have one swing thought during my practice swing, but once I get over the ball, I'm focusing on my target and the shot I'm trying to hit. You'd hope to have very little swing thoughts. You're just kind of going on instinct – and that's when you're playing the best.

>

> Padraig Harrington

> "In 1997 I read Golf is Not a Game of Perfect by Bob Rotella and I've never had a swing thought since then. When I get on the golf course, I think about the target and try to focus on the target, and that's it. No physical or technical thought whatsoever."

>

> EXTERNAL VS INTERNAL FOCUS

> The concept of External and Internal Focus was coined by Dr. Gabrielle Wulf, a Professor of Motor Learning at the University of Nevada. She conducted research and experiments over many years which looked at the effect of where an athlete put their focus during movement.

> External focus is when you keep your focus on what the effect of the movement will be, rather than the movement itself. For example when you throw a basketball you are probably just looking at the basket and throwing the ball. That is external focus. If I was to say to you to be aware of the angle of your wrists and how far your arms go back to throw the ball, that would be internal focus.

> Dr. Wulf’s studies concluded that the performance of players was improved when golfers (all various ability levels) focused more on the effect of the swing and their movement, rather than the position of body parts, which creates tension and inhibits fluidity.

> If you want to find out more about Dr. Wulf’s study of attentional focus on motor learning, check it out here.

> https://www.sportwissenschaft.de/fileadmin/pdf/BuT/hossner_wulf.pdf

>

 

So like I said in my first post, it can be either internal or external. Or it could be absolutely nothing. Depends on the player. My point is that it's not an absolute. Most players more than likely use both. I'm certainly not against external focus.

 

If you listen to Padraig's entire interview, that's exactly what he says. He just picked a "crutch that he can lean on" that works for him.

 

 

And just for a fun juxtaposition, the GOAT himself:

"At each tournament some segment of my swing is sticking out more that week than it generally does. Consequently, I find myself fastening on some little gimmick that will help me either to feel right or to swing right for the duration of that tournament. It might be raising my right shoulder a little higher at address (because that helps me to feel more relaxed and facilitates a freer turn), or it might be slowing down the push off my right foot at the start of the downswing (because that seems to help my balance in the hitting area). The next week it will be something else. When I mention to friends that I am forced to rely on this succession of gimmicks, I can sense that a number of them are let down to learn this. They would much rather hear that a professional golfer has everything securely under control, that each year he gains an increased mastery of his technique. All I can say is that I wish this were so."

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Off the tee, I try to focus on the tee, imagining the ball isn’t there. When I actually can do that I hit relatively well but it’s difficult. With my irons, I’ve started to focus on the spot in front of the ball so I’m hitting the bottom of the ball just before my swing reaches the low point. I’ve picked up a few yards with my irons doing this and I can get some nasty spin on the ball causing it to stop dead or come back especially on the green. The down side is that if I’m just slightly off, I skull it and it’s impossible to control. Golf is always a work in progress.

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> @oikos1 said:

> _"Target is irrelevant"_

>

> Tend to agree with this after you've established what your target is and have set your line. Why focus on something 200 yards away when the work to be done is right in front of you?

 

Because "a single conscious thought deflects the arrow from its intended target."

My entire focus for many years has been to develop a swing technique that allows me to maintain a clear mental image of the target all the way thru my swing. My swing has been built with that single goal in mind. When I'm able to maintain target focus, I can feel my body making the subtle adjustments necessary to send the ball where I want it to go. It's really quite magic and a very rewarding way to play the game. My problems arise when for some unknown reason, I lose target focus mid-way thru the motion. I've found it impossible to get PGA help in solving a problem like that, because all instructors are mechanics and move attention into the body rather than toward the target. I've never met an instructor who treated the target as anything other than a vague aiming point.

 

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