PM Grind vs High Toe

[cmatthews77]

1) Well maybe not "measured" but it appeared that way to me. I actually put them side-by-side and there wasn't as much difference as I thought but it still looks different. Maybe it's the curve or maybe its the position and length of the bottom groove but the newer one to me just appears more "snug" to the ground.

 

2) Yes, I'm VERY aware opening the face adds loft. That was my point that this club is so easy to play with the face open that I just don't see the need for me personally playing a wedge with more than 58 loft because I"m effectively playing it with way more loft most of the time anyways.

 

3) Not disputing it didn't have more offset. I'm saying it "appears" like a lot more offset than is actually there because of the shaft bend into the hosel.

 

 

 

>

> 1. The PM grind has its bounce behind the leading edge. It is impossible for the new PM to sit tighter than the old. Measure it. They're both 0.0* - completely flush. Most wedges the bounce is between the raised leading edge and the sole. That isn't how the PM works. The edge is in the exact same spot (right on the ground).

> 2. Opening the face adds loft. When you open the face, its not 58* any more. Its probably more like 68*.

> 3. It has more offset. You may like that or not (most don't) but it has about twice the offset of the first model. Its so the hosel doesn't catch when you open it.

 

 

[mizunoMX25]

> @Minarets said:

> I want a 54° and 58°. Would bend the 54° to a 53°. I just worry if the bounce is good and of the leading edge doesn’t just dig too much for me.

>

> playing a 54°D SM7 and a 58°M grind right now. 

 

I bought the 54 PM19 and am adding the 58 today. I can hit every shot with that 54. Low checkers, high bouncers/spinners, even a flop shot with the 54 far more successfully than the 58D I have. And it's SO much better than the original on full shots.

 

 

[pgoi]

i too have problem with hitting full shot with the PM grind. it feels like the leading edge would dig deep, takes a bit of soil before the trailing bounce would kick in

this feeling is actually perfect from sand, but from tight lie and delicate shot, an absolute nightmare for me

high toe i ended up getting a 56 bent to 54 because i wanted the heel relief instead of the normal full sole and i felt the bounce kicks too early when its 56. 56 degree i get the feeling the ball slide up the clubface more, now its 54 it still does it but felt more controllable

just shows how everyone is very different with their wedges huh

[UnderPar18]

Besides Mickelson I don't recall any Callaway tour players using the PM wedges.

[Ivyguy]

> @UnderPar18 said:

> Besides Mickelson I don't recall any Callaway tour players using the PM wedges.

 

He is a unique wedge player. Creates a lot of speed with his hands.

[GolfChannel]

> @Ivyguy said:

> > @UnderPar18 said:

> > Besides Mickelson I don't recall any Callaway tour players using the PM wedges.

>

> He is a unique wedge player. Creates a lot of speed with his hands.

I think it depends on how much the player uses a square face with their wedges. I know that prior to the Honma switch Rose was gaming Hi-Toes in all his wedges and was even gaming the x-version of the Hi-Rev 2.0 shaft.

[jbole267]

I filter my 64* HI-Toe in and out dependant on where I'm playing.

If you struggle in bunkers, this thing is amazing.

Otherwise, nothing special if you got in the standard 60* loft.

[Minarets]

Got to him some today at my local course. On partial shots the 56° and 60° were great. I’d probably buy a 53° and 58°. Loved the results. Feel was weird. Felt like a “boink!”...almost hollow. Full shots i didn’t get to hit and i need to before deciding on buying. The fear of digging is there.

[Kmac]

I just recently added the 54 and 58° PM19’s to the bag. They come last Monday and I was able to spend a short amount of time on the green once before playing over the weekend. So the 54° is fantastic. Pitch shots and basically shots around the green were super easy and very predictable. Feel is like mentioned above, not the softest. But the 58° is taking some getting used to so far. Had some shots and bad results but that’s as a result of me needing to use it more.

[Bimmer1]

 

 

> @UnderPar18 said:

> Besides Mickelson I don't recall any Callaway tour players using the PM wedges.

 

Once upon a time when observing the PGA “What’s in the bag” photos there were several players with PM wedges in the bag.......even non-Callaway players.

[mogc60]

The HT is one of the best wedges I have ever used in full shots. Very consistent flight and ground contact. I have the 54 and 58/10 and 58/Atv. I used the Atv last year and wanted to try the standard. I think I am going to go back to the ATV. That sole is so good. It’s different and takes getting used to using it but it requires a lot less face adjustment to hit all the shots. Great out of bunkers..deep grass and I’ve found it to be amazing on tight lies. Just thump the ground and it slides right by...

The PM wedge to my eye looks awful. The lead edge is not my style. My dad uses them though and loves them. He prefers a rounded edge...I prefer square.

[Minarets]

Think I’m about to go with the PM grind. Don’t think my OCD can handle the Hi Toe 54° looking like a regular wedge while my 58° has the grooves across the face.

 

I already have an issue with mixing manufacturers or types of wedges as is.

[2012BFT]

I went with a Hi Toe 60... looked, felt, and spun much better for me around greens. This club is awesome for those little feel shots anywhere around the greens!

[UnderPar18]

> @Bimmer1 said:

>

>

> > @UnderPar18 said:

> > Besides Mickelson I don't recall any Callaway tour players using the PM wedges.

>

> Once upon a time when observing the PGA “What’s in the bag” photos there were several players with PM wedges in the bag.......even non-Callaway players.

 

Sure, but that was once upon a time. Hi Toes have a bunch of play but PM wedges don't. It doesn't make sense to me. Is TM paying their guys that much to use them and Callaway is not?

[4rheel]

For me, the HT set up better but felt "muddy" in comparison to the PM wedge. If you can get over the offset and figure out how to square the PM wedge, I think it's a better wedge. I did have some issues with the PM on full shots but I think this design was meant more for finesse shots.

[Minarets]

went with the Callaway PM grind in 54*/58*. love them so far. 3 practice range sessions and only 1 actual round, but far better for my technique than the SM7s.

[hardten]

I play a 56 & 60 * SM6 along with my 5-aw Apex 19. debating PM 19 VS TM Hi-Toe. Thing of trying a 54* SW along with a 60* lob. Never had as low a lofted SW as a 54* but being my AW is 48* might as well try one. Been out a couple times and bounce back between the PM or HT. I don't put a lot of stock in the Pros clubs because as much as it hurts lots of egos here they simply play a different game. THAT SAID it is interesting that aside from Phil few other Cally staffers play a PM and many top Taylormade Pros play Hi Toes and they do have other TM options.Interesting.

[xxio]

I really think that has to do with playing another active player's "wedge", especially one called FIGJAM. These players are sensitive and have egos in varying sizes.

[hardten]

If the club shaves even a stroke a round that translates to big dough over a season and the iron could probably say anything and still be used.

[sirparalot]

I am a fan of the Ping ES. I tried my buddies PM grind and hated it. It looked odd to me (yes I know strong coming from someone who is used to staring down at the Eye 2 style wedge) and the weighting just felt strange when I swung it. Its a weapon for my buddy so YMMV. I have played a combination of Vokey(52 degree) and Ping(56es and 60es) wedges for years and will stick with this combo.

[shokosugi]

Hey guys - covid has got me thinking about trying a new 54 deg wedge this year. Basically, I use my 54 deg for the majority of shots inside 100 yards with the exception of the bunker (ping glide 3.0 60 Eye 2). I am intrigued with the pm grind and high toe wedges because the grooves cover the entire face and there are times when I purposely chip balls on the toe side, so i'm thinking the extra spin would be helpful. I generally chip with the club head hooded and the ball at my back foot, varying ball position as a function of distance and height needed on the chip. I've been using a 54 ping glide 2.0 ss with good success but the full face grooves on the high toe and PM grind have me intrigued. Just wondering if anyone has any insight on which of these might be better for hitting the types of chips that I do. I generally will never open the face of my 54 deg for chips as I'll just use my 60 deg instead.

Anyways, I hope everyone out there is keeping safe and for those who are lucky enough to golf - enjoy it for the rest of us!