Switching to Graphite

[IamMarkMac]

So lately I've developed pain in the right elbow and today I'm sensing the beginning of left elbow pain. I'm thinking it's the right time to switch to graphite but is it just a like for like swap for weight and stiffness?

My current shaft is cTaper Lite Reg. I think it's about 110g so would the 110g UST or Steelfiber shaft be the right move? I could try to get something lighter (because graphite) but frankly I like the weight of my club now.

[SEP1006]

Well don't know your swing traits are but I went ( for the same reason as you ) from the KBS C-TAPER STIFF ( 120 grams ) to what I currently play now, see signature. No issues at all and pain is gone as well.

[GoGoErky]

I prefer the feel of the recoils over steelfibers. I am on my second set of 110s and love them

[Buzzkill]

I played Steelfiber 110s a few years ago when I was in my early 50s age wise. Great shafts BUT Matt Kuchar was playing the 95 model at that time (actually earlier) and he certainly was stronger. They're definitely firm feeling in a good way BUT I'd recommend you go down a flex or two if you insist on that weight range. I'm sure others will share their thoughts here.

[Mike_C]

I was a long time C-Taper 120 user, tried 6 months of Modus 120 X, but they caused problems and I went to graphite because of elbow issues last year. First went to Recoil 110s F5s in a set of i200s, but for some reason, they seemed very spinny. I think the 110 profile has a softer tip than the 95. I then went to 95 Protos F5s and put them in a set of Srixon 945s, and really like them. I also have a set with Recoil Proto 95 F4s in a set of Titleist CB 714s, I can play them too, but like the look and feel of the Srixons better.

 

This spring as an experiment, I wanted to try Steelfibers, as I found an old Cobra set for cheap with the i95 stiffs. I then found a good set of Mizuno MP-15s with DG 300s, had them pulled and had the Steelfibers installed. I only have played a few rounds with them, so it is hard to compare, but my first impression is they swingweight out a bit lighter, and clearly play a bit different. The loading is definitely different, I had problems hitting smooth swings with them, I just wasn't loading them properly, I seemed to have more problems with distance control with the Mizunos with the Steelfibers. But that could be just getting used to them. I would almost describe the Recoils as linear, swing harder, they go a bit farther as expected, a bit easier, a bit shorter but as expected. The Steelfibers, it was almost geometric, I had to swing hard to get the most out of them consistently, but back off a bit, and they seemed to go far shorter than expected. But it could be a timing issue....

[IamMarkMac]

Yeah I wish it was easy to test multiple graphite shafts but the stores around me don't stock the 110g graphites. What I can find pretty easily is SF 95 but I already know that that wouldn't be one of my choices. I'm ok with Recoil 95 but I do really want to test 110 before making a decision.

[jsmil4901]

For me Recoils and Steel Fibers are completely different. Steel Fibers feel really boardy to me in comparison to Recoils. I play 780 F4 recoils in my CF16's and I am happy, although I have tried the recoil 95 and it felt really good also.

[IamMarkMac]

> @SEP1006 said:

> Well don't know your swing traits are but I went ( for the same reason as you ) from the KBS C-TAPER STIFF ( 120 grams ) to what I currently play now, see signature. No issues at all and pain is gone as well.

 

I notice you're playing PXG XF. Do you find that using forgiving clubs also help the elbow pain? Have you used more players profile irons in the past?

[NDGolfer13]

Look at the kbs tgi shafts. They are really good. I built a set of srixon 765 and they feel fantastic. Great ball flight not too Spinny for me.

[SEP1006]

> @jsmil4901 said:

> For me Recoils and Steel Fibers are completely different. Steel Fibers feel really boardy to me in comparison to Recoils. I play 780 F4 recoils in my CF16's and I am happy, although I have tried the recoil 95 and it felt really good also.

 

To me both the Recoils and especially the Steelfibers felt like re-bar, very stiff and boardy. The Accra's are really smooth throughout the whole swing. They are definitely under-rated!!

 

 

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @SEP1006 said:

> > Well don't know your swing traits are but I went ( for the same reason as you ) from the KBS C-TAPER STIFF ( 120 grams ) to what I currently play now, see signature. No issues at all and pain is gone as well.

>

> I notice you're playing PXG XF. Do you find that using forgiving clubs also help the elbow pain? Have you used more players profile irons in the past?

 

 

I only have the XF in the 4 - 6 but all of my irons are very easy on the joints. Before these I played the PXG Gen 1 P model and they were very easy on the joints as well. I have a complete tear in my right rotator cuff and the steel shafts were killing me. No issues at all ( from golf anyway ) with the shoulder since swapping to graphite.

 

 

 

[Bigmean]

I am hitting recoil 110 prototype f4 now and I feel like they blow the doors off the steelfiber I have hit in stores. Whoever said steelfiber feel boardy and recoils more like steel in that you can both hard load and smooth swing load like steel nailed it. Really like them coming from modus and nippon 1150s.

[St_HoselRocket]

If you have some elbow pain, graphite is the way to go. To me the Recoil 110 and PX Catalyst 100 reduced a little more vibration than the Steelfiber 110. Steelfiber had more of a "steel shaft" feel to it throughout the swing where the other two felt like true graphite shafts. The Steelfiber did offer me the lowest ball flight of the 3, followed by the Catalyst and then Recoil.

[Ri_Redneck]

I've played several graphite iron shafts over the years and one thing to keep in mind (just like with wood shafts) is the torque. Shaft torque will affect the feel of the shaft much more than it will affect anything else. A shaft with a higher torque measurement will feel softer than one with lower torque when the flex profile is the same. You also run into torque differences between models, specifically, Recoils (4-5* range) and Recoil Protos (low 2* range). These are very different shafts and you HAVE to know which you are hitting when testing. On average, "Boardy" feel relates low torque shafts and "Smooth" feel usually relates to higher torque shafts. And we're only talking a degree or two here! Typically, the lighter the shaft the higher the torque. SF shaft vary by approx. 1/2* between weight classes. The now discontinued Aldila RIP Tour 115, which I play in R flex, have torque in the 1.3-1.5* range as well as a firmer flex than many steel shafts of today. They were reported many times here as playing a full flex (or sometimes 2) stronger compared to steel!

 

Make sure you know what your swinging!

 

BT

[IamMarkMac]

Looks like I won’t be able to get away with foregoing a shaft fitting at Club Champion. I was getting comfortable with the idea of Recoil 110 f4 soft stepped once but seems like there’s a lot of other options (Accra being the most intriguing).

[Pepperturbo]

As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

[95124hacker]

My experience is the ones with metal reinforcement (SF, MCI, Vizard) all feel boardy as compared to pure carbon shafts.

[IamMarkMac]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

 

I don't know if that's right. I thought graphite had vibration dampening which would come into play regardless of weight and stiffness. Maybe someone who knows for sure can respond.

[Pepperturbo]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

>

> I don't know if that's right. I thought graphite had vibration dampening which would come into play regardless of weight and stiffness. Maybe someone who knows for sure can respond.

 

I didn't see it in heavier tour grade graphite that I owned. Of course, that was a while back. The tour graphite I had weight and torque was nearly the same as DG steel. IMO - by design, the dampening difference is in lighter graphite shafts. Also, I hear there are vibration dampening devices designed to be put in the butt of steel shafts.

[Davewn]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

>

> I don't know if that's right. I thought graphite had **vibration dampening **which would come into play regardless of weight and stiffness. Maybe someone who knows for sure can respond.

 

Your take is the more accurate one- vibration dampening is probably the main benefit graphite holds over steel these days. With steel shafts getting lighter and lighter (and more expensive) over time, graphite shafts' potential weight savings are not nearly as dramatic they once were.

 

 

[CDLgolf]

I switched last year. From Pings stock steel shaft w cushin insert, I believe 110g to their stock graphite shaft 80g. I have had no problem with the lighter shafts and all wrist and elbow pain is gone. Best equipement move I've made in years.

[Stuart_G]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Pepperturbo said:

> > > As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

> >

> > I don't know if that's right. I thought graphite had vibration dampening which would come into play regardless of weight and stiffness. Maybe someone who knows for sure can respond.

>

> I didn't see it in heavier tour grade graphite that I owned. Of course, that was a while back. The tour graphite I had weight and torque was nearly the same as DG steel. IMO - by design, the dampening difference is in lighter graphite shafts. Also, I hear there are vibration dampening devices designed to be put in the butt of steel shafts.

 

There are a lot of variations in the various pain causing medical conditions. Some are aggravated the most just by the impact - in which case the graphite/epoxy composite material acts as a much better high frequency dampener than steel shafts. And they can continue to use similar weights and stiffness as they did in steel. But some injuries are aggravated by the action of the swing itself (use or overuse of those tendons during the swing). And in that case, the change to graphite might not do much if the weight and flex stay the same but only the material changes. The former is more common so most people will get some relief even if they stick with similar weights/stiffness. But some do have to go down in weight - or really do something else to trigger some type of swing change to deal with the pain.

 

[Awainer1]

If not for graphite iron shafts I wouldn’t be able to play golf. My elbows get PISSED after one round with steel shafts.

[Tommyj]

> @Buzzkill said:

> I played Steelfiber 110s a few years ago when I was in my early 50s age wise. Great shafts BUT Matt Kuchar was playing the 95 model at that time (actually earlier) and he certainly was stronger. They're definitely firm feeling in a good way BUT I'd recommend you go down a flex or two if you insist on that weight range. I'm sure others will share their thoughts here.

 

I think Couples and Snedeker also play the Steelfiber i95-S, Kutchar has now gone to DG105. The Steelfiber is probably a stouter shaft than the Recoil in the same weight. I wouldn't automatically go to the same weight graphite as what you currently have in steel. I do think that most OEMs' stock graphite offerings are too light, coming in at 65-75 grams. I think if you are going to make the switch you'd be wise to go for a fitting. There are some really nice graphite shafts available, but its a serious expenditure and you may not make the best choice by experimenting on your own.

[tocino]

i decided to go with graphite iron shafts after I developed a shoulder issue last year that still isn't right despite PT. I could still play steel but i figure I might as well switch so i don't develop any additional problems with the rest of my joints (S300's were in my old set). I was looking at used irons with steelfiber or recoils in them when i found one with a set of accra protype 95s'. Couldn't be happier 6 rounds in.

[Ri_Redneck]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> As I see it, moving to graphite shafts in irons means "lighter" weight and softer profile compared to steel. I see no elbow benefit going with comparable weight graphite and flex profile. B)

 

My joints disagree whole-heartedly with this. Went from DG S300 to 115-125 gms graphite os similar bend profile. Can't stand any lighter. But like Stuart said, different types of injuries/conditions call for different remedies.

 

BT

[Johnny T]

Don't overlook the Fuji Pro series. I went to the Pro 115 and love them (played PX LZ steel 6.0 prior). I tried the Steelfibers and Recoils (both 95g versions) and just never got along with them. I'm thinking the decreased weight was the main culprit but who knows.

[IamMarkMac]

> @Tommyj said:

> > @Buzzkill said:

> > I played Steelfiber 110s a few years ago when I was in my early 50s age wise. Great shafts BUT Matt Kuchar was playing the 95 model at that time (actually earlier) and he certainly was stronger. They're definitely firm feeling in a good way BUT I'd recommend you go down a flex or two if you insist on that weight range. I'm sure others will share their thoughts here.

>

> I think Couples and Snedeker also play the Steelfiber i95-S, Kutchar has now gone to DG105. The Steelfiber is probably a stouter shaft than the Recoil in the same weight. I wouldn't automatically go to the same weight graphite as what you currently have in steel. I do think that most OEMs' stock graphite offerings are too light, coming in at 65-75 grams. I think if you are going to make the switch you'd be wise to go for a fitting. There are some really nice graphite shafts available, but its a serious expenditure and you may not make the best choice by experimenting on your own.

Sneds is SF 95 while Freddie is 110. Yup, I think I’ll go ahead and schedule a fitting. I’m going to end up paying in the area of $500+, better be the right shafts.

 

[95124hacker]

> @95124hacker said:

> My experience is the ones with metal reinforcement (SF, MCI, Vizard) all feel boardy as compared to pure carbon shafts.

 

Edit: after hitting Steelfibers again, I don’t find them harsh at all, but MCI and Vizard are definitely NOT on my favorites list.

 

 

[Hack Daddy]

I went to program 130s due to pain. Then I found a teacher that was able to correct my AoA. Went back to steel with no problems.

[cardoustie]

Maybe playing the tips with the young bucks is the problem?