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What up with Jordan?


tsecor

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You’re not understanding the root of the problem. Spieth’s mental fragility is causing all his technical problems and Rory’s growth in this mental area is empowering his technical. They are on polar opposites of this same spectrum. And don’t forget Putting is the least important aspect of scoring when compared to Tee to Green.

 

Spieth is very analytical, to a fault and his own detriment actually. McCormick knows this only too well about Spieth and is trying to speak to him in Jordan’s current language and model of the world… but Jordan’s so far down the analytical rabbit hole McCormick’s words are seemingly unable to reach or rescue Jordan. Time will tell on the extent of this, but also time is running out. There becomes a point of no return with the same mindset that got Jordan into this mess. One can only overcome a problem with the thought and mindset that’s evolved beyond his current thinking.

 

> @bladehunter said:

> @"Cool Runnings" I don’t disagree as a whole. I do think McCormick May be over doing the info thing. But I don’t think he’s being dishonest. I think he believes he’s close on some parts. But I’m not sure Rory is the best example. He’s not exactly a model of putting prowess every round yet.

>

> Go back to playing golf and the course and forget all the voices and tips. No video. No nothing. Ball flight and feel.

 

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So in short. Just convince yourself not to care and clarity will descend ?

 

If only that were possible to the ocd mind. I share his traits as far as the analytical side and cope best when I just turn the information spigot off and play blindly so to speak. Maybe that’s what Rory is doing ? He’s also coupling it with an outward “ I don’t care what happens “ self talk. Which to me seems impossible to do when you care about outcome that much.

 

Serious question . Where is the line for ceasing to care about outcome ? Is it on a whole round. Or does it also include shot to shot ? If we don’t care where a shot goes , how do we learn to execute and focus on hitting that shot ? I struggle with knowing how to parse all that up into compartments.

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When he caught fire and was holing putts from 30-40 feet several times a round during that epic run there was largely a lull of sorts in the strength and depth of field. The "stars" were all out of sorts to some extent and he blew away what competition there was.

 

Now that Tiger is back, DJ is on form, Rory is playing to a consistently high standard, Koepka and DeChambeau are in the mix Spieth seems to have hit a wall. I genuinely thought he would be winning a Major every other year as well as multiple Your wins a season because everything he did he did easily and without fear.

 

Today he looked as though he was begging the putts to drop and that is desparate. Missed quite a few low because he wasn't hitting with conviction. I get the impression that any of the top 10 in the world could give him a pasting with their B or C games at the minute and that's a tough spot to be in.

 

I've said before he looks absolutely frazzled. An extended break might help to refocus and re energise. Golf is hard enough as it is but when you're under pressure to make things happen, it borders on impossible.

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You can only ‘fake it until you make it’ with yourself for so long, and then you know you’re only BS’ing yourself and real change needs to happen to move forward.

 

Rory’s wired completely different to Jordan, Rory shows all the signs of being more self-aware and understands when he goes inward that’s when matter transforms externally for him. Spieth from what is available to decode is closer to that fly banging its head against the window exerting lots of misplaced energy following similar patterns hoping for things to change. It’s also closely defined as the ‘definition of insanity’. Only when breakdown happens is breakthrough allowed to grow. I’m not sure Spieth has broken down his old and current limiting model of the world and self - nothing ever carries us all the way. Jordan has a wonderful opportunity for new discovery and thinking, and I hope Spieth and his team are aware of this defining cross-road that greets them. I also hope Spieth has the courage and conviction to take a new path along an uncomfortable journey that will at first test the ever-present ego but will then hopefully witness it fall away if he’s picked the right path and stays the course.

 

Without sounding patronising, you ask a really great (and vital question) about “Where is the line for ceasing to care about outcome?” Rory speaks about having already discovered this for himself. Age isn’t a prerequisite for wisdom, sometimes the young are old beyond their years, and the reverse is also true. If I was to hypothesise on Jordan, I would say Jordan’s had a very grounded youth and upbringing in large part because of his sister’s challenges that have kept him and the family on the humble, grateful side of life. But I also think Jordan’s early and fast golfing success on the PGA Tour has grown the ego in him (that has largely been kept at bay through his early humility and gratitude experienced in his early family dynamic). But this ego has since grown to a degree that it’s become a monster for him now and is currently clouding his judgement about self and his sporting persona and the person he once was and now wants to be. This is the part where Rory has successfully deciphered and untangled this ever-present ego from his sporting persona and knows who he actually is and is at ease holding them both up simultaneously without being defined by them… but Jordan I observe (through his language, conversations, stories, body language and general vibe) hasn’t quite got there yet in his journey. The reality is some people (especially young and globally successfully superstars) struggle to find this inner sense of certainty about self separate from their ego, and often they continue to chase their tail (ego) for decades and even a lifetime.

 

To sum up your question in a simple line or two I’d offer this. That “line” is different for everyone, but everyone must find it on their own. It’s a dichotomy of wanting but not needing the result. The key is to realise it’s all an illusion and it’s said best by the inspirational quote found at Wimbledon (tennis) by the renowned poet Kipling just before the players exit onto centre court, it reads:

 

“If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same…”

 

 

> @bladehunter said:

> So in short. Just convince yourself not to care and clarity will descend ?

>

> If only that were possible to the ocd mind. I share his traits as far as the analytical side and cope best when I just turn the information spigot off and play blindly so to speak. Maybe that’s what Rory is doing ? He’s also coupling it with an outward “ I don’t care what happens “ self talk. Which to me seems impossible to do when you care about outcome that much.

>

> Serious question . Where is the line for ceasing to care about outcome ? Is it on a whole round. Or does it also include shot to shot ? If we don’t care where a shot goes , how do we learn to execute and focus on hitting that shot ? I struggle with knowing how to parse all that up into compartments.

 

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Blade, if you’re interested here’s the full poem. To grasp just some of it and then strive to live by it would create a world that would leave me breathless…

 

BY RUDYARD KIPLING

(‘Brother Square-Toes’—Rewards and Fairies)

 

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,

Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,

Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,

And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

 

If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;

If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster

And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken

Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,

And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

 

If you can make one heap of all your winnings

And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,

And lose, and start again at your beginnings

And never breathe a word about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew

To serve your turn long after they are gone,

And so hold on when there is nothing in you

Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

 

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,

Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute

With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,

And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

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@"Cool Runnings"

 

Believe it or not , I get what you’re saying. Makes sense. I don’t know if I’m alarmed or glad ( a joke) that someone could read my abstract thought pattern. Lol At least that’s what I call it. Normally when I ask some hypothetical question where I’ve thought about something outside the normal excepted boxes I get crickets or cross eyed looks.

 

 

I’m quite interested in the mental control and/or mental currency/motivation side of the game . And life in general as well.

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> @Socrates said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Jordan must be playing ok today. Horschell has 5-6 birdies and is only 1 up through 10.

>

> Neither one of them can putt. They just said that Spieth is 189th in putting from inside 10' this year. That's the kind of stat that will get you on the Web.com Tour soon. Fortunately, he's exempt for who knows how long.

>

>

 

I thought Speith's exemptions are cumulative and he would have 11 wins and 3 majors worth of exemptions? So thats like 20ish years?

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> @bladehunter said:

> 2 birdies on 17-18 to claw back to a halve. Not exactly a choke job today. Plenty left to do but good grief I’ll say again.

>

> You can gauge this kids talent and aptitude by the amount of hate he generates and threads like this. Only tiger generates more.

 

It appears Spieth shot even or one over. Still a ways to go. Nice halve.

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> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > 2 birdies on 17-18 to claw back to a halve. Not exactly a choke job today. Plenty left to do but good grief I’ll say again.

> >

> > You can gauge this kids talent and aptitude by the amount of hate he generates and threads like this. Only tiger generates more.

>

> It appears Spieth shot even or one over. Still a ways to go. Nice halve.

 

Do believe that they no longer use the term "halved." They have dumbed it down to tied.

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> @Ferguson said:

> > @jonsnow said:

> > > @Ferguson said:

> > > Drugs, marriage, struggles or swollen glands - take your pick.

> > > Who knows?

> >

> > You forgot Groats. There's always the possibility of Groats.

> >

> >

>

> I know. It's hard to talk about.

> An estimated 1 out of every 15,437 golfers is suspected of having Groats.

 

He needs to go speak to Danny Duberstein.

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It's funny, Rory wins one tournament and he's suddenly found everything. There's no doubt he's playing great, and he looks comfortable too. He may have a monster year. But he was doing all of this before the one win as well, and until the win the narrative was generally negative. He also had a win early last year and then went on to have, at least for him, a spring/summer to forget.

 

For both of these guys, it seems like everyone expects them to double what they've put up so far over the rest of their careers or it's a failure. I tend to think Spieth will eventually be back, although he looks horrible right now and at the end of the day no one really knows. I don't think his record is all "lucky" though. He clearly won the 2015 Masters and should have won the 2016 Masters (this is on par with Rory in 2011 and Greg Norman in 1996). The 2014 Masters, 2015 US Open, 2017 Open, and 2018 Open all could have gone either way (oddly, I think the 2018 Masters was a bit different. Even if he doesn't hit the tree on 18 there's no guarantee he makes birdie and even if he does it could have changed how Reed/others played the rest of the way. Also, given where he started the final round of the 2017 Open he should have won, but based on where he was on the back nine it's a toss up). So he could have anywhere from 2 to 6 majors, and when you take realistic conversion rates for anyone besides Tiger the three that he has is probably about right. Just having to list out all of these opportunities probably shows it's not luck.

 

That being said, Martin Kaymer has fallen of the face of the earth. He played well from 2008-2011 and then in 2014. 2 Majors and the Players, but no one seems to care what happened. Similarly, if Koepka never wins another major and only like 5 more tournaments total I don't think anyone will blink. The story will just be that he got hot for 2 years in the big ones. Sure, Spieth probably had more talent at 18 years old than either of these guys but it's not like these other two had/have nothing. A dramatic/permanent decline could happen to him (Spieth) for any number of reasons.

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Come on guys, winning on the pro level is hard. Just being able to sustain eliteness in the pro ranks is already a sign of super-human talent. Nobody can call YJS a loser by any means. He was on fire when he came on the tour. Now he's lost it. Probably will find some of it again later on. Whatever it is, he hasn't given up anyway, so just be ready when it comes. But then again some don't regain that level, just see Jason Day, Kaymer etc.

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As for Martin Kaymer’s decline, he went through a short period of changing his swing (to win at AN) but during that process he incurred many injuries along the way, and these injuries have plagued him getting back at various times over many years. That’s very different to Spieth’s decline as injuries aren’t a factor. It’s mental bleeding into technical and having his boat full of holes.

 

agolf1:

“It's funny, Rory wins one tournament and he's suddenly found everything.”

 

It’s the other way round, it’s because Rory’s “found everything” that he’s been playing so consistently well for months which happened to hook a Players win during this period of his great play. And “found everything” is in essence Rory’s now far better and more comfortable in being able to separate the ego from himself as a golfer and as a person outside of golf. This has now translated into a pivotal shift from his old definition of ‘success’ being linked to results, to now ‘success’ being linked to the process of constant improvement & self-discovery, with results literally being just a by-product and key markers on this new and never ending journey of meaningful success. This is huge for Rory, people / players / psychologists often talk about these key topics, but often it’s just people giving intellectual lip-service around these topics and that’s because they’re so personal and intangible which makes it extremely hard for people to go beyond grasping it intellectually to then implementation into a new world model and ultimately into a way of ownership and being.

 

If you’re not following what I’ve said above, let me put it another way that perhaps others can relate to… it’s like asking a person that’s wanted something so badly (after years of trying harder and harder to obtain it only for it to get further and further away from actually obtaining it), to then advise this person that if they really want to obtain it then “give up wanting it so badly”… often they just look at you with a blank face and usually ask “so how exactly do I do that?”. This whole concept/thought process is a tough one to not only first grasp, but even tougher to then buy into it and then apply tangibly and practically. Rory however has solved this timeless puzzle for himself.

 

agolf1:

“But he was doing all of this before the one win as well, and until the win the narrative was generally negative. He also had a win early last year and then went on to have, at least for him, a spring/summer to forget.”

 

Rory’s explained many times that he’s been really focused on this inner-journey for the past year, but just like your golf swing when making changes (and most things in life come to that), numerical results are usually the last thing to appear. This is what we’re seeing from Rory. And the “negative” has only been from those judging on the outside using a completely different lens to Rory on what defines ‘success’. That’s why when Rory finally won The Players his natural reaction wasn’t like that of his old ego-based reaction / (model of the world) when he used to link ego to results and feel justified. This recent Players win he KNEW in his core it was coming, and even with it’s obtainment he’s already focusing on the ‘process of improvement & discovery’ as that’s HIS new definition (world model) of ‘success’. Tangible wins (that we the public define as ‘success’) will come as a by-product to Rory, and he’ll use them as markers while taking momentary pride in obtaining them, but gaining wins are now no longer his core goal or focus, they’re just a by-product of the successes he’s making daily. Hope that makes sense.

 

Like Rodger Federer who’s often talked about finally understanding this famous Wimbledon quote “If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same”… Rory’s now understanding it too.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> It's funny, Rory wins one tournament and he's suddenly found everything. There's no doubt he's playing great, and he looks comfortable too. He may have a monster year. But he was doing all of this before the one win as well, and until the win the narrative was generally negative. He also had a win early last year and then went on to have, at least for him, a spring/summer to forget.

>

> For both of these guys, it seems like everyone expects them to double what they've put up so far over the rest of their careers or it's a failure. I tend to think Spieth will eventually be back, although he looks horrible right now and at the end of the day no one really knows. I don't think his record is all "lucky" though. He clearly won the 2015 Masters and should have won the 2016 Masters (this is on par with Rory in 2011 and Greg Norman in 1996). The 2014 Masters, 2015 US Open, 2017 Open, and 2018 Open all could have gone either way (oddly, I think the 2018 Masters was a bit different. Even if he doesn't hit the tree on 18 there's no guarantee he makes birdie and even if he does it could have changed how Reed/others played the rest of the way. Also, given where he started the final round of the 2017 Open he should have won, but based on where he was on the back nine it's a toss up). So he could have anywhere from 2 to 6 majors, and when you take realistic conversion rates for anyone besides Tiger the three that he has is probably about right. Just having to list out all of these opportunities probably shows it's not luck.

>

> That being said, Martin Kaymer has fallen of the face of the earth. He played well from 2008-2011 and then in 2014. 2 Majors and the Players, but no one seems to care what happened. Similarly, if Koepka never wins another major and only like 5 more tournaments total I don't think anyone will blink. The story will just be that he got hot for 2 years in the big ones. Sure, Spieth probably had more talent at 18 years old than either of these guys but it's not like these other two had/have nothing. A dramatic/permanent decline could happen to him (Spieth) for any number of reasons.

 

 

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> @"Cool Runnings" said:

>

I don't recall Kaymer being injured for the majority of the last 4 years, but you may be right. My main observation was that other people come and go, but the golf world seems to be more invested in what happens to Rory and Spieth (neither good nor bad, it just is what it is).

 

Everything else you write may be correct. Or, it may be a bunch of rubbish. I'm not in a position to say it's wrong, but there are many semi-complicated (or long worded) explanations that sound great and are more believable after the objective evidence comes out. I thought Rory's play looked great earlier this year and thought it was a positive that he was right there every week. You may have been thinking the same, and had some insight/beliefs into the mental aspect as well (I don't really try to judge what's going on there). In which case, you were right on.

 

But consider the following. Tom Brady won three Super Bowls early in his career. Then he went nine years without winning one, including losing twice in the big game (once with the best regular season team ever and another time with a loaded offense). Since, he's won another three of four, and the legend grows with every victory. The results are the results, but there was also one of the worst play calls in Super Bowl history, an opponent that melted down in excess of what Spieth did at the 2016 Masters, and a defensive player that couldn't line up on his side of the ball. I don't think he had it, lost it, and somehow found it again. He's always been a great player and/but sometimes the cards just fall the right way and sometimes they don't.

 

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> @"North Texas" said:

> I recognize that I am neither a brain scientist or rocket surgeon, but am I the only one who doesn't have a freaking clue what Cool Runnings is trying to say?

 

Most don't. It's about awareness.

It was a great post, btw. Trust me.

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> @Rangeballz said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > I recognize that I am neither a brain scientist or rocket surgeon, but am I the only one who doesn't have a freaking clue what Cool Runnings is trying to say?

>

> I was hoping someone would provide an executive summary.....

>

>

 

Brevity is a lost art. Especially for people like me with a short attention span.

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Kaymer is a bad example in my opinion. A pretty single dimension player always. Not a great short game and never a fire starting putter. And can obviously only see shots one direction. Sure he’s a good player by worlds standards. But compared to his peers ( professional tour) Not great.

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I did provide a summary / another shorter example at the end of my post. If you want “Brevity”, here is a repeat of summary:

 

“Like Rodger Federer who’s often talked about finally understanding this famous Wimbledon quote “If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster, and treat those two imposters just the same”… Rory’s now understanding it too.”

 

The problem with these type of complex topics is posting only one or two line sentences is when people read them they don’t actually explain the topic sufficiently. A great example is if I tried to explain the complex topic of Energy and just posted this sentence.

 

E = MC2

 

People get the general concept but don’t ‘really’ understand it.

 

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @Rangeballz said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > I recognize that I am neither a brain scientist or rocket surgeon, but am I the only one who doesn't have a freaking clue what Cool Runnings is trying to say?

> >

> > I was hoping someone would provide an executive summary.....

> >

> >

>

> Brevity is a lost art. Especially for people like me with a short attention span.

 

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> @bladehunter said:

> Kaymer is a bad example in my opinion. A pretty single dimension player always. Not a great short game and never a fire starting putter. And can obviously only see shots one direction. Sure he’s a good player by worlds standards. But compared to his peers ( professional tour) Not great.

 

Yes, he was relatively good for a while but not on the level of these two (or probably some others even though Kaymer won more big tournaments). But had he kept winning despite his limitations, his popularity would have gained, and then we'd have tons of justifications and stories for why he's able to do it. Hence, after the fact things become much clearer or it is easier to make up a narrative that seems believable.

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It isn’t “rubbish” but for many it is misunderstood which equates to something similar in their minds. For those looking in on Rory and his situation/transformation from the outside, I can certainly understand their scepticism. But for me (who’s profession is in human psychology), Rory has provided enough evidence to believe this shift to a newer model of the world has gone beyond mere words for him. It appears to me he’s grown beyond his old thinking and is seeing the world through a new more empowering lens and his recent actions, language and physiology are very much congruent.

 

The fact Rory’s speaking so openly & insightfully about it all when asked, is actually quite refreshing.

 

> @agolf1 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> >

> I don't recall Kaymer being injured for the majority of the last 4 years, but you may be right. My main observation was that other people come and go, but the golf world seems to be more invested in what happens to Rory and Spieth (neither good nor bad, it just is what it is).

>

> Everything else you write may be correct. Or, it may be a bunch of rubbish. I'm not in a position to say it's wrong, but there are many semi-complicated (or long worded) explanations that sound great and are more believable after the objective evidence comes out. I thought Rory's play looked great earlier this year and thought it was a positive that he was right there every week. You may have been thinking the same, and had some insight/beliefs into the mental aspect as well (I don't really try to judge what's going on there). In which case, you were right on.

>

> But consider the following. Tom Brady won three Super Bowls early in his career. Then he went nine years without winning one, including losing twice in the big game (once with the best regular season team ever and another time with a loaded offense). Since, he's won another three of four, and the legend grows with every victory. The results are the results, but there was also one of the worst play calls in Super Bowl history, an opponent that melted down in excess of what Spieth did at the 2016 Masters, and a defensive player that couldn't line up on his side of the ball. I don't think he had it, lost it, and somehow found it again. He's always been a great player and/but sometimes the cards just fall the right way and sometimes they don't.

>

 

 

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> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> It isn’t “rubbish” but for many it is misunderstood which equates to something similar in their minds. For those looking in on Rory and his situation/transformation from the outside, I can certainly understand their scepticism. But for me (who’s profession is in human psychology), Rory has provided enough evidence to believe this shift to a newer model of the world has gone beyond mere words for him. It appears to me he’s grown beyond his old thinking and is seeing the world through a new more empowering lens and his recent actions, language and physiology are very much congruent.

>

> The fact Rory’s speaking so openly & insightfully about it all when asked, is actually quite refreshing.

>

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > >

> > I don't recall Kaymer being injured for the majority of the last 4 years, but you may be right. My main observation was that other people come and go, but the golf world seems to be more invested in what happens to Rory and Spieth (neither good nor bad, it just is what it is).

> >

> > Everything else you write may be correct. Or, it may be a bunch of rubbish. I'm not in a position to say it's wrong, but there are many semi-complicated (or long worded) explanations that sound great and are more believable after the objective evidence comes out. I thought Rory's play looked great earlier this year and thought it was a positive that he was right there every week. You may have been thinking the same, and had some insight/beliefs into the mental aspect as well (I don't really try to judge what's going on there). In which case, you were right on.

> >

> > But consider the following. Tom Brady won three Super Bowls early in his career. Then he went nine years without winning one, including losing twice in the big game (once with the best regular season team ever and another time with a loaded offense). Since, he's won another three of four, and the legend grows with every victory. The results are the results, but there was also one of the worst play calls in Super Bowl history, an opponent that melted down in excess of what Spieth did at the 2016 Masters, and a defensive player that couldn't line up on his side of the ball. I don't think he had it, lost it, and somehow found it again. He's always been a great player and/but sometimes the cards just fall the right way and sometimes they don't.

> >

>

>

 

Good stuff? What kind of psychology do you do?

I find it interesting because I kind of woke up after 40+ years of being in a very self-perceiving kind of world. I understand what you are saying but 14 months ago I would not have and would have been much more prone to dismiss it since I couldn't relate to it.

I finally get that reedom and happiness are independent of what we get. I don't always remember it but it's there when it wasn't before.

 

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> @3jacker said:

I find it interesting because I kind of woke up after 40+ years of being in a very self-perceiving kind of world. I understand what you are saying but 14 months ago I would not have and would have been much more prone to dismiss it since I couldn't relate to

>

Ah I see, you have gone through the romantic, self investigation phase of your twenties, the intellectual, realist phase of your thirties and have now hit the spiritual awakening of the couscous soul. You can look forward to a few years of being mentally upset now that you begin to question all of your earlier values.

 

LOL, I'M JUST KIDDING!

I'm not a psychologist nor am I pretending to know what you are going through. But I'm currently reading a bunch of psychology books on the phases of man for a project I'm working on and literally read something to this extent before lunch today. Just thought it was kind of a funny timing.

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