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Is the Pro V1 in trouble?


Danny Choo

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The problem with this type of "analysis" is you aren't accounting for selection bias from the ball makers. Titleist may spread their money out amongst more players, but among the top 10-20 guys I would imagine the ball brands are more evenly distributed. The best method would be to find players who changed brands and see how their performance and stats changed. Still, kind of interesting to see.

 

Plus you have guys on that list that contractually "have" to use the ball they do because of the clubs they play. Chances are pretty good that some of them probably wouldn't be able to play Titleist even if they wanted to.

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I have found myself trying everything except Tiitleist the last few years. Titleist will always be my standard but... I like an X ball characteristic but dont care for the feel. That being said, I am trying other companies X balls in search of similar performance and a bit softer feel.

 

Currently trying out the TP5X. Tried Chromesoft X last year and really liked the feel but spun too much on approach shots for me. I also just went back to MB's and gained some spin back along with a higher launch so I may be going back to a non X ball...

*The NE Florida Golf Realtor*

Titleist TSi3 9 deg / PX Hazardous Smoke Black RDX

Titleist 915 F 15 deg / Diamana 70
Titleist TSi2 18 deg Hybrid / PX Hazardous Smoke Black RDX
Titleist 716 MB PW-6i / T100 4i-5i Project X 6.0

Titleist Vokey SM5 50/8F

Titleist Vokey SM9 54/10S 58/10S

Scotty Cameron Phantom X 5.5

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UPDATED:

Safeway open- Kevin Tway Pro V1

Cimb classic- Mark leishmania Chrome soft

CJ cup-Brooks Koepka Pro V1

Wgc-hsbc championship- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sanderson farms- Cameron Champ Srixon Z star

Shriners- Bryson Dechambeau Bridgestone BX

OHL classic- Matt Kuchar Bridgestone BX

RSM classic- Charles Howell III Pro V1

Hero world challenge- John Rahm TP5

Tournament of champions- Xander Schauffele Chrome soft

Sony Open- Matt Kuchar bridgestone BX

Career builder challenge- A. Long Pro V1

Farmers insurance- Justin Rose Tp5

Phoenix open- Ricky FowlerTP5

Attached pebble beach- Phil Mickelson chrome soft

Genesis Open- J B Holmes Srixon Z Star.

Puerto Rico Open- Martin Trainer Srixon Z Star

WGC-Mexico- Dustin Johnson TP5

Honda Classic-Keith Mitchell Pro V1X

 

Titliest-5

Callaway-4

Taylormade-4

Bridgestone-3

Srixon-3

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  • 2 weeks later...

Right now? No. Tons of the older crowd still buy pro Vs and only pro v. Among younger golfers? Yea, they are. Out of my entire college golf team as well as guys i've met from other programs very few play pro v. I see more srixon than anything partially because of price point. TP5 is coming in hot and theres even a few guys that have stock from the nike rzns. Pro V is still great, but i don't think they're as dominant in the market as they were. $50 is a lot for a dozen balls.

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I believe Molinari just switched to Chrome Soft.

Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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I heard from inside Titleist, they are switching the characteristics so the ProV1 will be the primary choice, the Pro V will go and the AVX will stay. There is evidence that they are doing this.

 

 

 

The ProV1x and AVX are on completely different ends of the spectrum from each other so I don't see this happening

 

Uhh, what??? They're both in the premium ball category, both have the same price point, not sure how they're "completely different ends of the spectrum"

Epic Speed LS 🔷🔷🔷 9* Hzrdus Hulk Smoke 6.5TX 
X Hot 3 Deep 14.5* Matrix Ozik 8M2 X Flex
Nike Vapor Fly Pro 2 KBS 105X
T-MB 4 PX LS 7.0

Nike VR Pro Combo Pocket Cavity 5 Iron, 6-9 Blades Oban 125X
RTX Zip Core 46 Oban 125X

Vokey 50M KBS Tour 130X

Vokey 54V KBS Tour 130X

Vokey 60M KBS Tour 130X
Champions Choice Newport Plus MMT 135

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I heard from inside Titleist, they are switching the characteristics so the ProV1 will be the primary choice, the Pro V will go and the AVX will stay. There is evidence that they are doing this.

 

 

 

The ProV1x and AVX are on completely different ends of the spectrum from each other so I don't see this happening

 

Uhh, what??? They're both in the premium ball category, both have the same price point, not sure how they're "completely different ends of the spectrum"

 

I think he means performance spectrum;

Ping G430 Max 10K 10.5° driver - Diamana GT 60S

Ping G430 Max 15° #3 fairway - Diamana TB 70S

Ping G430 Max 21° #7 fairway - Diamana TB 80S

Ping G430 Max 26° #5 hybrid - MMTh 90S

Mizuno Pro 243 4-PW irons - MMT 105S

Mizuno T24 Raw 48°-10S wedge - MMT 105S

Mizuno T24 Raw 54°-10S and 60°-06X wedges - MMT Scoring Wedge 105S

Ping PLD Ally Blue 4

Titleist Pro V1x

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The Pro V1 is a wonderful ball, possibly the best. But their competition from Callaway to Vice and all between now make balls that are comparable. Some people will like one over the other for various reasons. The competition actually did Titleist a huge favor by raising their prices to Pro V1 levels. As long as the price is close, Titleist won't have any problems selling balls.

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I believe Molinari just switched to Chrome Soft.

 

Getting paid to with his recent Callaway deal

 

Is there anybody not being paid to play a ball on tour?

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Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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I think the stats demonstrate that like drivers, premium golf balls are at or close to their max potential and there is very little difference between the manufacturers. Personal preference and fitting will dictate which ball is best for an individual but overall it seems any edge Titleist had or claimed to have no longer exists beyond what they choose to pay professionals to select their ball over their competitors.

Driver - Callaway Paradym
Woods - Callaway Paradym 3W
Hybrids - XXIO 10 3H, 4H, 5H
Irons - Callaway Paradym 6-52*
Wedge - PXG Forged 56** 
Putter - Ping TYNE C
Ball - Titleist AVX

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I heard from inside Titleist, they are switching the characteristics so the ProV1 will be the primary choice, the Pro V will go and the AVX will stay. There is evidence that they are doing this.

 

 

 

The ProV1x and AVX are on completely different ends of the spectrum from each other so I don't see this happening

 

Uhh, what??? They're both in the premium ball category, both have the same price point, not sure how they're "completely different ends of the spectrum"

 

 

One ball spins more off irons and wedges than any other on the market while the other is not even close. The AVX is made for players that come in steep and add a lot of spin. A good player that does not come in steep will have issues with the AVX off the tee and out of the rough (not enough spin for many)

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I think the stats demonstrate that like drivers, premium golf balls are at or close to their max potential and there is very little difference between the manufacturers. Personal preference and fitting will dictate which ball is best for an individual but overall it seems any edge Titleist had or claimed to have no longer exists beyond what they choose to pay professionals to select their ball over their competitors.

As usual, very well said.

Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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I believe Molinari just switched to Chrome Soft.

 

Getting paid to with his recent Callaway deal

 

Is there anybody not being paid to play a ball on tour?

Brooks Koepka and Patrick Reed. May be others.

And Reed switched to the Z-Star and said it is a better ball. LOL

Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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  • 2 weeks later...

Mannnn “inside sources” yadda yadda...

 

You wanna know why Titleist is going to be #1 forever, especially on tours?

 

It’s not because of ball flight characteristics, spin numbers or build..... ITS THEIR QUALITY CONTROL.

 

Sure the TP5 is an amazing ball. Punches pound for pound with the pro V1. BUT fill a glass with a ton of epsom salt; put a dot (with a sharpie) on 12 TP5s, and put a dot on 12 ProV1s, and then float them.

 

Now, does this matter to average joes like us? Absolutely not, but for the pros it’s a HUGE difference. And as the pros keep using titleists flagship ball (no matter what they call it) titleist will still use their same slogan in the commercials, and guys like us will STILL fork over the dough because we see it in the commercial, and hear the tag line.

 

(Off my soapbox)

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> @DZ973 said:

> Mannnn “inside sources” yadda yadda...

>

> You wanna know why Titleist is going to be #1 forever, especially on tours?

>

> It’s not because of ball flight characteristics, spin numbers or build..... ITS THEIR QUALITY CONTROL.

>

> Sure the TP5 is an amazing ball. Punches pound for pound with the pro V1. BUT fill a glass with a ton of epsom salt; put a dot (with a sharpie) on 12 TP5s, and put a dot on 12 ProV1s, and then float them.

>

> Now, does this matter to average joes like us? Absolutely not, but for the pros it’s a HUGE difference. And as the pros keep using titleists flagship ball (no matter what they call it) titleist will still use their same slogan in the commercials, and guys like us will STILL fork over the dough because we see it in the commercial, and hear the tag line.

>

> (Off my soapbox)

 

So is Rickie going to see a "HUGE" difference as a result of his recent switch? If not, it's presumably because he has access to balls that have been specially-selected, right? And if the pros have access to specially-selected balls, why would Titleist's quality control be THE difference maker in determining tour usage as you've suggested?

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Many pro's will continue to play them because they are a good ball and they are free. There are just too many good cheaper options for the rest of us to bother with these at almost $50.00 a dz.

Ping G 10*- 44.5" Adjusted to 11*
Ping i3OS 4 thru UW
Cobra SS 5 wood

Cobra Speed LD 15* 3 Wood
Titleist Vokey 56* -SW
Ping Redwood- 34"
Callaway Supersoft

 

 

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Three mentions:

 

IF you take Rickie's win and very timely switch, Titleist's numbers would look much better with 5 against the field, but the switch was made, and so we have the list we have.

 

Most course pro shops (even some retailers) have the PV in stock (not everyone). Sometimes I'm not as certain that I will find a sleeve of what I need on the shelf when I need it regarding the Chrome Soft, TP5, Bridgestones, and Srixons. Outside of the tour trend, the ProV love is still very strong for the people with change in their pocket. I even get excited when I find one out on the course.

 

Obviously we are seeing a trend away from the PV on tour. As mentioned before, change is inevitable. When or how that change comes about is unknown. The 2019 TP5(x) numbers make it very interesting for those with high, tour-level, swing speeds.

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Who wins with what ball does not define the value of a ball like ProV1. The number of ProV1 users, on the other hand, still beat all other balls. Yes, there are many other balls, but this provides facts. [https://is.gd/Dj4lVx](https://is.gd/Dj4lVx "https://is.gd/Dj4lVx") "Titleist golf ball players have recorded 120 victories around the world, nearly seven times the nearest competitor with 16. Since its introduction in 2000, the Pro V1 golf ball franchise has been the golf ball of choice for more than 2,900 champions worldwide."

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> @Pepperturbo said:

> Who wins with what ball does not define the value of a ball like ProV1. The number of ProV1 users, on the other hand, still beat all other balls. Yes, there are many other balls, but this provides facts. [https://is.gd/Dj4lVx](https://is.gd/Dj4lVx "https://is.gd/Dj4lVx") "Titleist golf ball players have recorded 120 victories around the world, nearly seven times the nearest competitor with 16. Since its introduction in 2000, the Pro V1 golf ball franchise has been the golf ball of choice for more than 2,900 champions worldwide."

 

They are almost all being paid to play the ball. Don't fall for their marketing gimmick. They have like a gazillion players under contract to play their ball which is a large part of the reason they have to charge $48/dz.

Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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> @backhill said:

> Three mentions:

>

> IF you take Rickie's win and very timely switch, Titleist's numbers would look much better with 5 against the field, but the switch was made, and so we have the list we have.

>

> Most course pro shops (even some retailers) have the PV in stock (not everyone). Sometimes I'm not as certain that I will find a sleeve of what I need on the shelf when I need it regarding the Chrome Soft, TP5, Bridgestones, and Srixons. Outside of the tour trend, the ProV love is still very strong for the people with change in their pocket. I even get excited when I find one out on the course.

>

> Obviously we are seeing a trend away from the PV on tour. As mentioned before, change is inevitable. When or how that change comes about is unknown. The 2019 TP5(x) numbers make it very interesting for those with high, tour-level, swing speeds.

 

Can you provide the numbers that show we are obviously seeing a trend away from the PV on tour?

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Here's the latest update for those still interested in this.

Thus far in the 2018-19 professional golf season, Titleist golf ball players have recorded 35 victories around the world. The nearest competitor has 11 victories. The worldwide golf ball count stands at Titleist with 5,573 and the nearest competitor at 721.

 

If this not undeniable evidence that the Pro V1 is clearly in trouble, then I don't know what it. They have got to do something before it is too late or they are toast. Must be a lot of late night meetings taking place.

 

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> @rybo said:

> In a word yes. Since the beginning of the year it looks like the TP5 is leading in wins. With Titleist and Callaway tied. Bridgestone one or two back. Titleist has never had so much competition as they do now. :

 

The TP5 is played by DJ, Rahm, Rory, Rose, and Fowler. How can they not have the majority of wins. Those are all top 10 players!

 

Add Tiger and Day....The TP5 ball has 7 of the top 15 players in the world. Odds are a TP5 ball will win the Masters.

 

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> @FlyOver said:

> > @rybo said:

> > In a word yes. Since the beginning of the year it looks like the TP5 is leading in wins. With Titleist and Callaway tied. Bridgestone one or two back. Titleist has never had so much competition as they do now. :

>

> The TP5 is played by DJ, Rahm, Rory, Rose, and Fowler. How can they not have the majority of wins. Those are all top 10 players!

>

> Add Tiger and Day....The TP5 ball has 7 of the top 15 players in the world. Odds are a TP5 ball will win the Masters.

>

 

Tiger plays a Bridgestone B XS.

Driver: Cobra F9 with HZRDUS SMOKE Stiff
3W: Titleist 917F2 w/Fujikura Speeder Pro Tour Spec 84 Stiff
2I: Srixon Z U65 18 Degree w/Miyazaki Kaula 7s
Irons: Mizuno MP-54 3-PW DG S300 
Wedge: Vokey TVD 56 K-Grind
Wedge: Vokey SM6 60-12 K-Grind 
Putter: Scotty Cameron Newport 2

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