My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

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  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • RodCRodC Members  373WRX Points: 38Handicap: 12Posts: 373 Greens
    Joined:  edited Mar 29, 2019 #364

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    I grabbed some pruning shears and cut the power steering cable in my car. I am now a professional NASCAR driver due to how
    much better it's made me.

    hardest eye roll humanly possible
    PS: A pure'd CB and a pure'd MB feel identical. There is no difference. Its physics. A pured shot is dead in the center, so nothing vibrates. That's what you feel on a pure'd shot - the lack of vibration. All clubs feel the same on an actually pure'd shot - they don't vibrate, so its a wonderful feeling of the ball not being there, like you swung in air. You'd get that from a blade, and from a mallet putter if you hit that dead in the center off a tee and anything else. If the shots feel different when pure'd you didn't pure it.

    You Insensitive one! You’re missing some sensations on your life.

    I differ. Maybe a CB and a MB feel the same. But you can’t say it’s the same a SGI or GI than a CB or MB.

    PS: my idea of comparisons would be, instead of the power steering reference, a surgeon’s scalpel vs a butchers knife. Or a fine brush vs a wall painting brush

    Posted:
    Ping G400 Alta CB, X Shaft
    TM 2016 M2 3 Wood / Callaway EFSZ 3 wood 
    TM SLDR 4 & 5 Hybrid
    5-PW Mizuno MP-18SC - Steelfiber i95 (since Nov 17) - on the bag
    5-PW TM P-790 Modus 3 105 Stiff (since March 18) - on the bench
    4-PW Mizuno MP-20MMC KBS$ Stiff - since dec 19) - in transit 
    Cleveland RX2 50/08
    CBX 54º Wedge, CBX 58º Wedge.
    SM6 54º & 60º on the bag

    carbon-putters-revolver.png Carbon Ringo Putter
  • bodhi555bodhi555 Members  956WRX Points: 328Handicap: 8Posts: 956 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #365

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    I grabbed some pruning shears and cut the power steering cable in my car. I am now a professional NASCAR driver due to how
    much better it's made me.

    hardest eye roll humanly possible
    PS: A pure'd CB and a pure'd MB feel identical. There is no difference. Its physics. A pured shot is dead in the center, so nothing vibrates. That's what you feel on a pure'd shot - the lack of vibration. All clubs feel the same on an actually pure'd shot - they don't vibrate, so its a wonderful feeling of the ball not being there, like you swung in air. You'd get that from a blade, and from a mallet putter if you hit that dead in the center off a tee and anything else. If the shots feel different when pure'd you didn't pure it.

    We have a word for that statement in the UK, it starts with B and rhymes with pollocks.

    Posted:
    The Dee Three: Titleist 917 D3 9.5 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 65X
    The Stenson: Titleist 917 F3 15 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 75X
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five


  • rxk9fanrxk9fan MidwestMembers  989WRX Points: 273Handicap: 6.9Posts: 989 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #366

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    I grabbed some pruning shears and cut the power steering cable in my car. I am now a professional NASCAR driver due to how
    much better it's made me.

    hardest eye roll humanly possible
    PS: A pure'd CB and a pure'd MB feel identical. There is no difference. Its physics. A pured shot is dead in the center, so nothing vibrates. That's what you feel on a pure'd shot - the lack of vibration. All clubs feel the same on an actually pure'd shot - they don't vibrate, so its a wonderful feeling of the ball not being there, like you swung in air. You'd get that from a blade, and from a mallet putter if you hit that dead in the center off a tee and anything else. If the shots feel different when pure'd you didn't pure it.

    I can't get on board here. My personal experience has taught me that "pure'd" shots do feel different from club to club. I have not put a lot of thought into the reason, but they do not all feel the same. In order to have the exact same feel, would that not mean that every club design and every club material and every shaft material would have to resonate the same when struck with a mass (the golf ball) ? Even perfectly struck objects will resonate. I think the difference in resonance frequency might explain what we feel in the grip after striking the club with a golf ball. Someone may completely correct me as physics was a VERY long time ago LOL. But what you feel regardless of where you hit the ball on the face (pure to horrible) will not feel the same when using different designs and metals and even balls. When you change the make up of the ball, you will produce different vibrations that some will immediately notice as a "hard ball" or "soft ball".
    This is of course an opinion and a hypothesis that may contain zero factual statements except for the part that says clubs do feel different from one another regardless of how you hit the ball :-).

    Posted:
    Titleist TS3 with Evenflow White 1100 stiff
    Titleist 917 F2 15 degree
    Titleist 818 H1 19degree and 23degree
    Mizuno 919 Tours with Recoil F4 shafts
    Vokey 58,54,50

    Odyssey Stroke Lab 7



  • gvogelgvogel Members  8367WRX Points: 1,250Posts: 8,367 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #367

    I learned on Hogan, and then Spaulding blades. Then I got a set of Lynx clubs with more offset and some perimeter weighting, and my ability to hit my irons straight increased exponentially. My greens in regulation increased by a lot.
    I never looked back. I have had my best scores recently with AP1's - just like Ben Curtis. I don't need blades to tell me that I missed the sweet spot; my hands and ball flight tell me everything I need to know.

    Posted:
    Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing-glove.  P.G. Wodehouse
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • TigerInTheWoodsTigerInTheWoods Members  2586WRX Points: 1,634Handicap: 5Posts: 2,586 Titanium Tees
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    All of this said I don't know how I can stop myself from buying a set of Z Forged. God they're ****.

    Posted:
  • Nard_SNard_S Members  3891WRX Points: 857Handicap: 9Posts: 3,891 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #369

    On -, @rxk9fan said:

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    I grabbed some pruning shears and cut the power steering cable in my car. I am now a professional NASCAR driver due to how
    much better it's made me.

    hardest eye roll humanly possible
    PS: A pure'd CB and a pure'd MB feel identical. There is no difference. Its physics. A pured shot is dead in the center, so nothing vibrates. That's what you feel on a pure'd shot - the lack of vibration. All clubs feel the same on an actually pure'd shot - they don't vibrate, so its a wonderful feeling of the ball not being there, like you swung in air. You'd get that from a blade, and from a mallet putter if you hit that dead in the center off a tee and anything else. If the shots feel different when pure'd you didn't pure it.

    I can't get on board here. My personal experience has taught me that "pure'd" shots do feel different from club to club. I have not put a lot of thought into the reason, but they do not all feel the same. In order to have the exact same feel, would that not mean that every club design and every club material and every shaft material would have to resonate the same when struck with a mass (the golf ball) ? Even perfectly struck objects will resonate. I think the difference in resonance frequency might explain what we feel in the grip after striking the club with a golf ball. Someone may completely correct me as physics was a VERY long time ago LOL. But what you feel regardless of where you hit the ball on the face (pure to horrible) will not feel the same when using different designs and metals and even balls. When you change the make up of the ball, you will produce different vibrations that some will immediately notice as a "hard ball" or "soft ball".
    This is of course an opinion and a hypothesis that may contain zero factual statements except for the part that says clubs do feel different from one another regardless of how you hit the ball :-).

    Everything has a resonant frequency, sound and feel are just differing ways for brain to register them.

    Posted:
  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16720WRX Points: 962Handicap: Low-Mid SDPosts: 16,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #370

    I can say from personal experience, learning the game with blades helped me to be the low-single-digit player I am today and I am chasing up on 70. That may not be the belief for others though. I still bring out the blades now and again too. Additionally, when learning I was at the range hitting over 1k balls per week and had a long-term golf game plan when most others didn't think it was important.

    Yes, in the beginning, I didn't have the short game yet, so strokes stacked up at times. That's when I reminded myself of my strategic plan. Whether I lost a game and paid up was unimportant. Eventually, however, that aspect of the game turned around in my favor, so when I mis-hit an iron and ball came up short, a wedge shot tight and tap in saved par or got me a birdie on Par 5's.

    Whether someone learns with blades or CB's depends on their motivation and perception of the golf or the game. To some people, even mid-high caps, it's all about score, not so much execution. Maybe that's why some people I know that remain mid-high caps. To others like myself, there is no drudgery in golf. It's about learning to properly execute a shot or hitting the ball using the sweet spot on the club face. Still today, as long as I execute my planned shot scoring result takes care of itself. My 2cents. B)

    Posted:
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i95 "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i110/i125 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX



  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members  3552WRX Points: 349Handicap: 4Posts: 3,552 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Mar 30, 2019 #371

    I'm not disagreeing that blades can help you learn. Hitting anything can help you learn. I'm questioning the wisdom of recommending it to people over the internet you know nothing about. Everyone learns differently. Some people learn faster when a task is much harder and some people learn faster when its much easier. Some Olympic sprinters train with a parachute on their backs or into a wind tunnel and some train running downhill. "Some people learn better on blades because of their learning style" = fine. "You'll get better if you practice on blades, trust me random internet guy looking for help on his golf game" = nonsense.

    We can agree to disagree on that guy "feeling" the difference between a pure'd MB and a CB when neither one vibrates at impact.

    Posted:
    Ping G30 9* driver and 17* hybrid TFC-419 stiff
    Bridgestone j40 dpc 3-LW x100
    Fitted Edel
  • pinestreetgolfpinestreetgolf Members  3552WRX Points: 349Handicap: 4Posts: 3,552 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #372

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    I can say from personal experience, learning the game with blades helped me to be the low-single-digit player I am today and I am chasing up on 70. That may not be the belief for others though. I still bring out the blades now and again too. Additionally, when learning I was at the range hitting over 1k balls per week and had a long-term golf game plan when most others didn't think it was important.

    Yes, in the beginning, I didn't have the short game yet, so strokes stacked up at times. That's when I reminded myself of my strategic plan. Whether I lost a game and paid up was unimportant. Eventually, however, that aspect of the game turned around in my favor, so when I mis-hit an iron and ball came up short, a wedge shot tight and tap in saved par or got me a birdie on Par 5's.

    Whether someone learns with blades or CB's depends on their motivation and perception of the golf or the game. To some people, even mid-high caps, it's all about score, not so much execution. Maybe that's why some people I know that remain mid-high caps. To others like myself, there is no drudgery in golf. It's about learning to properly execute a shot or hitting the ball using the sweet spot on the club face. Still today, as long as I execute my planned shot scoring result takes care of itself. My 2cents. B)

    Hey Pepper, we've argued in the past, but this is not an attempt at questioning you, but I legitimately want to understand this. You hit "thousands of balls" a week. Don't you think you would have gotten pretty good no matter what you used? Why do you think the blades part helped so much, as opposed to the thousands of balls part? You think you'd have progressed significantly slower if you hit something like a Lynx player's CB instead of a straight Mizzy?

    Posted:
    Ping G30 9* driver and 17* hybrid TFC-419 stiff
    Bridgestone j40 dpc 3-LW x100
    Fitted Edel
  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • silverfox1955silverfox1955 Members  8WRX Points: 61Posts: 8 Bunkers
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    As a blade guy I can testify to this: there is a difference between them and a cavity backed iron. However, as a player, I can tell you that PRACTICE is the key to attaining good golfing results, regardless of what style of iron you play. When I stopped practicing (as much) my handicap reflected as much. Changing to a different style of iron will not affect your result in any significant way. Golf equipment is in NO WAY a replacement for diminishing skill.

    Posted:
  • PapaJohickPapaJohick ShortKnocker Bombs Charleston, SCMembers  4631WRX Points: 233Handicap: 8Posts: 4,631 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #374

    On -, @Lefty96 said:

    There is nothing wrong with playing blades if they simply bring more enjoyment to your game. Whether thats because you like the way the feel/look at address, or because you just like being "able" to play blades. But, if you get more enjoyment out of shooting you best score then you may want to consider making a change. Like people above have pointed out, you'll just hit more greens with a GI or players GI club then you will with blades. If score isn't really important to you, by all means keep playing the blades. They will give you a **** of a lot of feedback about your strike and maybe you'll even learn to find the middle of the face more often because of it. Most importantly enjoy golf! They are a pretty set of sticks!

    Have to say I don’t entirely agree with some of your statement. I know the jpx 919 tours aren’t exactly blades but I have played majority bladed irons the past few years and my best scores are with those clubs. Multiple rounds in the 70s. Not many above 88 or so.

    I have also dabbled in the so called more forgiving irons like the cobra forged Tec and Wilson c300. Almost no difference in scores average or spread wise but I never have had that low round with them. I know that’s not definitive as everyone is different but I can certainly say I play better with the more bladed or “player” iron

    Posted:
    Forever Changing at this point.......
  • revanantrevanant Members  419WRX Points: 329Posts: 419 Greens
    Joined:  #375

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    I can say from personal experience, learning the game with blades helped me to be the low-single-digit player I am today and I am chasing up on 70. That may not be the belief for others though. I still bring out the blades now and again too. Additionally, when learning I was at the range hitting over 1k balls per week and had a long-term golf game plan when most others didn't think it was important.

    Yes, in the beginning, I didn't have the short game yet, so strokes stacked up at times. That's when I reminded myself of my strategic plan. Whether I lost a game and paid up was unimportant. Eventually, however, that aspect of the game turned around in my favor, so when I mis-hit an iron and ball came up short, a wedge shot tight and tap in saved par or got me a birdie on Par 5's.

    Whether someone learns with blades or CB's depends on their motivation and perception of the golf or the game. To some people, even mid-high caps, it's all about score, not so much execution. Maybe that's why some people I know that remain mid-high caps. To others like myself, there is no drudgery in golf. It's about learning to properly execute a shot or hitting the ball using the sweet spot on the club face. Still today, as long as I execute my planned shot scoring result takes care of itself. My 2cents. B)

    Hey Pepper, we've argued in the past, but this is not an attempt at questioning you, but I legitimately want to understand this. You hit "thousands of balls" a week. Don't you think you would have gotten pretty good no matter what you used? Why do you think the blades part helped so much, as opposed to the thousands of balls part? You think you'd have progressed significantly slower if you hit something like a Lynx player's CB instead of a straight Mizzy?

    So, I've lived above a golf simulator for a few months now. I've tested a bunch of different sets: Adams Idea Tech V4, Titleist AP1 716, Mizuno T-Zoid Pro, JPX 900 Tour, Callaway Apex MB, Mizuno MP-4, Mizuno MP-69, and Ben Hogan Apex Redlines.

    I'm a bit of a sweeper with an in-to-out swingpath. The big eye opener was the difference between the relatively narrow soled T-Zoid Pros vs. the AP1 and Adams. Practicing with the T-Zoid cleaned up my ballstriking within about 2 hours of range practice with it, in a way that hours with the AP1 and Adams did not. If I had to guess, it's because poor strikes have a very different result from a good strike--typically a club or two shorter with a lot less height, but not so far offline because the ball dies faster. I found practicing with the T-zoid improved my strike, because it narrowed down what a good strike should look and feel like and gave me feedback on what I should try and repeat. In short, it really has worked for me. I've also hit the more SGI irons back to back against MBs and players CBs--I'm simply a better ball striker with the smaller irons with a less bulky sole.

    As for T-Zoids vs. the other irons I've hit--it's less of a difference in forgiveness, and mostly a difference in feel. The T-zoids actually sting on a poor strike, as do the MP-68s. More modern blades like the MP-4 and Callaway Apex MB do not. Neither do the Hogan Apex Redlines--they play almost identically to the Callaway Apex MB in feel, though I think the higher lofts and lighter Apex shaft give me much more height. And for whatever reason, despite weaker lofts, I hit the Hogan Redlines as far as my MP-4s and the Callaway Apex MBs, and farther than the JPX 900 Tour and Mizuno T-Zoids by a club. However, the more important point is that I'm comfortable reaching for the next club down in my bag if I need more distance, in a way that I wasn't before practicing with non-GI irons.

    So, long story short, my ball striking has improved dramatically with less forgiving irons, despite a similar amount of steady practice, where the only change was the type of iron I was practicing with.

    Posted:

    Cobra King LTD
    Cobra F8 3W
    Cobra F6 Baffler 5W
    Callaway Apex MB 4-PW (Nippon Modus 120)
    Mizuno MP-4 4-PW
    Titleist Vokey SM5 54-10 M
    Mizuno JPX 58-14
    Ping Redwood D66

  • BiggErnBiggErn Members  2860WRX Points: 742Posts: 2,860 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #376

    On -, @silverfox1955 said:

    As a blade guy I can testify to this: there is a difference between them and a cavity backed iron. However, as a player, I can tell you that PRACTICE is the key to attaining good golfing results, regardless of what style of iron you play. When I stopped practicing (as much) my handicap reflected as much. Changing to a different style of iron will not affect your result in any significant way. Golf equipment is in NO WAY a replacement for diminishing skill.

    Some people play golf for 40 years while taking lessons and practicing a lot. Some of them never break 90. If you aren’t a plus HC or at least scratch and use blades you aren’t hitting very many solid shots. Someone can slap it around the course and catch a solid shot now and then while hitting 4 geeens a round and if that’s someone’s thing good for them. I’d prefer to get the most out of a solid shot and close to it on a shot not quite as solid.

    Posted:
  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members  603WRX Points: 136Posts: 603 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #377

    So then it’s ok to slap it around the course with gi/sgi irons, hit it solid every now and then, and hit 4 greens a rounds? Oh and let’s not forget never break 90 in their golfing life!

    Posted:
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  • BiggErnBiggErn Members  2860WRX Points: 742Posts: 2,860 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @Golf4lifer said:

    So then it’s ok to slap it around the course with gi/sgi irons, hit it solid every now and then, and hit 4 greens a rounds? Oh and let’s not forget never break 90 in their golfing life!

    So at least look like a poser? I know far more better golfers (single digit or scratch) that use something other than a blade. Actually I don’t know of any good golfers personally that use blades. Can’t remember the last really good golfer I’ve been paired with that used blades but there was a couple hackers that did. The best golfer I know uses JPX hot metals and the 2nd best uses ping G series. It’s laughable hearing about how a certain club just gets your absolute focus. The best ball strikers in the world that use blades pure shots as an afterthought. No amount of practice or “focus” is gonna help some people. If you’ve been playing blades for 20 years and and don’t flush every shot and shoot around par or better I doubt you ever will. The fact that over 75% of all touring professionals use something other than a blade should at least say something.

    Posted:
  • nostaticnostatic "i drank what?!?" Socrates lost angelesClubWRX  201WRX Points: 171Posts: 201 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #379

    My take-home lesson is that people play golf for different reasons and have different motivations. And to quote Stuart Smalley, "that's ok..."

    Posted:
    Ping G400Max 10.5 XTorsion S - Cobra F9 3W 16 Devo7 S - F9 3H Devo8 S 
    Mizuno 919 Hot Metal Pro 4-PW - 919F GW - S18 55/09 PX LZ Tour 6.0 - Ping Glide2.0 Stealth 58TS
    Odyssey StrokeLab Double Wide Flow
  • Golf4liferGolf4lifer Members  603WRX Points: 136Posts: 603 Golden Tee
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    On -, @BiggErn said:

    On -, @Golf4lifer said:

    So then it’s ok to slap it around the course with gi/sgi irons, hit it solid every now and then, and hit 4 greens a rounds? Oh and let’s not forget never break 90 in their golfing life!

    So at least look like a poser? I know far more better golfers (single digit or scratch) that use something other than a blade. Actually I don’t know of any good golfers personally that use blades. Can’t remember the last really good golfer I’ve been paired with that used blades but there was a couple hackers that did. The best golfer I know uses JPX hot metals and the 2nd best uses ping G series. It’s laughable hearing about how a certain club just gets your absolute focus. The best ball strikers in the world that use blades pure shots as an afterthought. No amount of practice or “focus” is gonna help some people. If you’ve been playing blades for 20 years and and don’t flush every shot and shoot around par or better I doubt you ever will. The fact that over 75% of all touring professionals use something other than a blade should at least say something.

    Why do they have to be a poser?? That’s my point. Someone might think they play better with blades and therefore they do. They are confident over the ball and make good swings. Do they flush it all the time? No, but do you? We love to jump on people for sharing their experiences when they don’t align with what we see. Golf is not a game of perfect, but of playing your misses. If the op can mange his misses with blade and play well who are we to undermine that?

    I would say about 70% of the better players I know use blades, I’m talking scratch or better. The rest use cb’s of some sort.

    Posted:
  • talktoafadetalktoafade Members  10WRX Points: 18Posts: 10 Bunkers
    Joined:  #381

    Was about to start a thread on this.
    10.4 hcp index. For a long time played some 1972 Hogan Apex blades with Apex 3 shafts, bought for $35 years ago in 2nd hand sports store.
    Played to 9-10 hcp with these clubs for about five years 18+ years ago before having kids, having gotten tired of Ping Eye2s ballooning on me. Started playing again last year, got it back down to 9.5 index. Want to get better. Bought Srixon 765 3-PW with TT S300 shafts last August thinking new irons will help.
    Have not scored any better. Best rounds ever still with the Hogans.
    Put Hogans back in the bag today. Irons are better, esp. short irons. By "better" I mean actually hit the Hogans FURTHER, once you correct for loft (Srixons are 1-1.5 clubs stronger in loft per number than the Hogans), and through a better window, as well. And they feel better.
    Is it the clubheads I like better? Or is it that the 45 year-old Apex 3 shafts are better for me than the TT S300? My swing speed is low.

    Posted:
  • kcd38kcd38 Members  425WRX Points: 134Posts: 425 Greens
    Joined:  #382

    Interesting topic. I wouldn't say I did a similar thing, but I went from 714 AP1's to MP 18 SCs (I know, not total blades) and noticed some similar things during the switch. I was forced to have a different focus with my irons, which lead me to putting more conscious effort to finding the middle of the face. My swing became more controlled, smoother, and more deliberate. Could this have happened with lessons, of course. But that switch forced me to make these changes which eventually improved my golf game.

    A bad swing is going to produce a bad shot, no matter how much speed injected forgiveness you have in your iron. With that being said, I do find myself wishing I had more forgiveness at times. Really the difference between coming up 3 yards short of a green and being on it.

    Posted:
    Driver - PING G400 LST 8.5, Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black 6.0
    3 Wood - PING G400 14.5, AD Di 6s
    Hybrid - Ping G410 19 degree, Tour AD DI 95x Hybrid 
    4-PW - Mizuno JPX 919 Tour PW-6, 919 Forged 5 iron, 919 Hot Metal Pro 5 iron, all with Modus Nippon3 120s
    Wedges - Vokey SM7 50F, 55F, 60 D 
    Putter - Taylormade Spider Tour Black
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  • Z4Z3RZ4Z3R Golfing Guy's Guy Cleveland, OHMembers  146WRX Points: 106Posts: 146 Fairways
    Joined:  #383

    Love playing blades and do believe there are some performance benefits that even a mid handicapper can get especially if they are more of a sweeper.

    However, I just find my distance control on misses to be better in a slight CB. When I'm on my game, it doesn't make a difference and the blades may be better. But more often than not, that's not the case and the distance control on off center hits from a CB get me into friendlier areas usually. Difference is being right and pin high vs right and short. You can get up n down from both spots but over the course of a round, it might save 1 shot.

    Life's too short to not play blades though so it's quite a predicament.

    Posted:
    What's in the Quiver (subject to rapid change)

    Callaway Epic 10.5//GD IZ 6x
    Taylormade SIM 3w// Fujikura Ventus 7x
    Mizuno ST180 5w//PX HZRDUS YELLOW 85g 6.5 
    Callaway UT 23*//Patterson Kinetixx X
    Miura MB 101 5-P//PX 6.0
    Titleist Vokey SM7 Raw 50.12F, 56.14F, 60.08M//DG TI S400
    Scotty Cameron 2018 Global Limited
    ProV1 Yellow
  • A.G. Pennypacker A.G. Pennypacker Members  489WRX Points: 81Posts: 489 Greens
    Joined:  edited Apr 2, 2019 #384

    13 pages in, and still the same circular debate.

    Bravo.

    Posted:
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members  9657WRX Points: 1,605Posts: 9,657 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  #385

    Just shot my all time low round this weekend with my "bladed" Miura's. Only hit 25% of greens but got up and down a bunch of times to save par. It's really hard to try and "what if" to say if I was gaming something like my p790's again what my score would have been. Most of my missed greens were a little short, but 5-10 yards off line which IMO is a face and path issue more than a forgiveness issue. In fact I could argue that being short on those shots helped me rather than hurting me because I had easy chips on to the green, where if I had played "hotter" hollow face irons, 5-10 more yards could have placed me into a bunker or in other odd lies in thicker rough.

    Looking back, lost 2 strokes to drops and probably 4 strokes to less than stellar play around the green. If I had executed just those shots alone, that would have been a 78. So regardless of blades being unforgiving, etc... having better short game and keeping those 2 balls in play gets me down to being a consistent 70's shooter, and I'm currently playing off 12.6.

    I'm going to hopefully be picking up the "hotter" faced Apex Pro's later this year so it will be interesting to see if scores suddenly get better, simply due to more speed/forgiveness. My guess is they won't or it will be impossible to tell due to variables in other areas of my game such as improving my distance or putting. I'd need to download some kind of app/program that calculated SG18 in that case.

    Posted:
    D - SIM Max | Tour Z Xtreme 475; 4w - SIM Ti | Diamana B 80; 4h - 818H2 | Tensei White 90; Irons - P760 5-PW | Modus 120; GW - Glide 3.0 50/12 | S400 Tour Issue; SW - Glide 3.0 54/12| S400 Tour Issue; LW - Glide 3.0 58/10 | S400 Tour Issue; P - Toulon San Diego or Directed Force 2.1; Ball - TP5 Pix 2.0

    Incoming gear: Speedzone Xtreme 9* Driver,  Speedzone 5w, Speedzone 4i & 5i

  • bodhi555bodhi555 Members  956WRX Points: 328Handicap: 8Posts: 956 Golden Tee
    Joined:  #386

    Just in the interest of putting my money where my mouth was, the discussions on this thread have actually prompted me to do a little experiment. I took advantage of Nike not making clubs any more to pick up a cheap VR Pro Combo 4 iron from eBay (for a grand total of £30) and put it up against my VR Pro 4 iron. I don't find the VR Pro especially difficult to launch when I'm properly warmed up, however our 1st hole is a 440 yard Par 4 with trouble all down the left, so I tend to take a 3 Wood off the tee, which leave me around a 4 iron left into the prevailing wind. If it was on the 15th I doubt I'd have an issue, but picking a MB 4 iron up off a hanging lie on the second swing of the day can be "fun" :)

    The Pro Combo arrived yesterday. It is not identical spec to my MB 4 iron (it's an S300 rather than an S400, and is around half an inch shorter than the MB) but close enough for initial testing, and if it works well I'll get the shaft changed on it. I went to the Driving Range last night, didn't have Trackman sadly, but used markers on the range to compare distance - however my initial interest was in the subjective stuff, like feel and forgiveness.

    Long story short - I could happily put either in the bag on any one day from last night's evidence The MB was punishing in terms of feel on mishits, however with the shots I was taking, there was very little difference in terms of end result. If I caught it slightly thin or towards the toe, both irons ended up on the same ridge on the range, the only difference was how they go there. The CB carried all the way and stopped, the MB landed 10 feet shorter but thanks to the lower trajectory ran further. Both were around 10 - 15 yards short of a clean strike.

    The other big difference I noticed was if I wanted to step on a 4 iron for that little extra distance. I got it with the MB, whereas the CB travelled the same distance just higher. At the moment I'm putting that (and the extra distance with a standard shot) down to the shaft in the Pro Combo, so will get it booked in to have an S400 fitted.

    Testing will continue but I'm not seeing much difference in help from the Pro Combo if I'm totally honest - but I am seeing a different ball flight so I can see myself swapping 4 irons based on conditions / course I'm playing.

    Posted:
    The Dee Three: Titleist 917 D3 9.5 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 65X
    The Stenson: Titleist 917 F3 15 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 75X
    The Walking Stick: Titleist 818 H2 19 degree - Aldila Rogue Max 85X
    The Blades: Nike VR Pro 4i - PW - DG S400 TI Shaft
    The Rusties: Nike Engage 50, 54 Square Sole, 58 Toe Sweep
    The Putter: Nike "The Oven" Method 003
    Balls: Nike RZN Tour Black/Platinum, Bridgestone Tour B XS, Titleist AVX
    Bag: Sun Mountain Four Five


  • GolfWRXGolfWRX Warning Points: 0  11 Members Posts: 11 #ad
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  • PepperturboPepperturbo Midwest and SouthwestMembers  16720WRX Points: 962Handicap: Low-Mid SDPosts: 16,720 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 2, 2019 #388

    On -, @pinestreetgolf said:

    On -, @Pepperturbo said:

    I can say from personal experience, learning the game with blades helped me to be the low-single-digit player I am today and I am chasing up on 70. That may not be the belief for others though. I still bring out the blades now and again too. Additionally, when learning I was at the range hitting over 1k balls per week and had a long-term golf game plan when most others didn't think it was important.

    Yes, in the beginning, I didn't have the short game yet, so strokes stacked up at times. That's when I reminded myself of my strategic plan. Whether I lost a game and paid up was unimportant. Eventually, however, that aspect of the game turned around in my favor, so when I mis-hit an iron and ball came up short, a wedge shot tight and tap in saved par or got me a birdie on Par 5's.

    Whether someone learns with blades or CB's depends on their motivation and perception of the golf or the game. To some people, even mid-high caps, it's all about score, not so much execution. Maybe that's why some people I know that remain mid-high caps. To others like myself, there is no drudgery in golf. It's about learning to properly execute a shot or hitting the ball using the sweet spot on the club face. Still today, as long as I execute my planned shot scoring result takes care of itself. My 2cents. B)

    Hey Pepper, we've argued in the past, but this is not an attempt at questioning you, but I legitimately want to understand this. You hit "thousands of balls" a week. Don't you think you would have gotten pretty good no matter what you used? Why do you think the blades part helped so much, as opposed to the thousands of balls part? You think you'd have progressed significantly slower if you hit something like a Lynx player's CB instead of a straight Mizzy?

    First off, I am not expecting to change anyone's mind. Just sharing what I have learned from playing the game.

    When I took up the game a relative advised me to consider blades. He played on the PGA tour for a number of years in the 50-late '60s and MacGregor was his sponsor and their blades were his #1 choice. I still own a set of MacGregor blades 2-PW custom made by them just for me. Though people vehemently disagree with my perspective, attention to detail is #1 requirement to being a solid ball striker and manipulating the ball. However, due to ball makeup, manipulation is more difficult and not required to play good golf.

    You may know or not, the CG sweet spot (dime size) on an older blade is closer to the hosel and higher and closer to the face requiring more attention to detail. Now, regardless of clubhead design, anyone hitting 1k+ balls per week will learn to consistently hit the ball. The question remains as to the extent he has over varying face impact location and degree of directional control. In answer to your question; one thing is sure, playing MB's added to the learning because "attention to details" requires a myopic focus on each of those details which aren't prevalent with contemporary CB's. Note how exaggerated Bubba Watson's movements are when moving the ball using S55 irons.

    I am close to 70yrs old now and compared to most, still hit the ball pretty well and play forged 716CBs since introduction. Experience has shown me at impact 716CB iron doesn't talk to me as much as my older MacGregor blades and both sets have the same C-Taper shafts. The difference, to hit the older MacGregor long irons I have to pay greater attention to swing mechanics to ensure I hit the ball using the sweet spot on the face. Not so much the case with 716CB's, and even less so with AP2's. Forgiveness makes up for human error even laziness. LOL.

    What we all know is CAD design, quality of forged material, along with larger (nickel size) CG being located in the middle of the face and lower to the back make contemporary MB's easier to hit and more forgiving than older sister blades. Similarly, CB perimeter weighting provides much more forgiveness on off-center strikes. There again, Titleist 716CB's feel similar to 716MB's mostly due to their bulk muscle behind the face, which makes them a bit more difficult to hit compared to CB's in general. One last thought, whether or not a pure CB feels like pure MB depends on club head material, shaft tip and ball composition. All equal, yes, otherwise, no. I won't go into nerves in the hands. That's attention to details. Have a good day.

    Posted:
    Post edited by Pepperturbo on
    Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
    Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
    Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, Steelfiber i95 "S"
    Titleist 620 CB/MB 3i-PW, Steelfiber i110/i125 "S"
    SM6 F-52/8, Steelfiber i125 "S"
    SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
    SC California Monterey
    ProV1 & AVX



  • LowAndLeft32LowAndLeft32 Members  230WRX Points: 73Posts: 230 Fairways
    Joined:  #389

    If you believe Bobby Clampett that "blades are the ultimate game improvement iron" then you can have both blades and GI irons all in one club!!

    On a serious note, what we need in these debates are hard facts which are hard if not impossible to come by. The two test that I think may help expand the discussion would be:
    1) Iron Byron hitting a bunch of different shorts on different parts of the club face with both blades and Gis and then comparing the data for distance and dispersion.
    2) The other test which is difficult to execute would be to play say 50 rounds with blades and GI to see if scores are impacted. This may help to more accurately start to somewhat answer if one type of clubs improves scores. This would help eliminate the feel arguments, the distance on mishits arguments, ect. Why feel, distance, and dispersion are important and easy to talk about, they don't explain what type of score you get!

    Posted:
  • NoRootsNoRoots ClubWRX  13WRX Points: 29Handicap: 8Posts: 13 ClubWRX
    Joined:  #390

    I like what the salesman at our golf shop says. Play with the most forgiving club until it becomes a detriment to your game. I.e. You hit it to high, your having problems shaping the ball because of off set.

    Posted:
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  • MelloYelloMelloYello Upstate, SCMembers  3801WRX Points: 1,005Handicap: 7Posts: 3,801 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited Apr 4, 2019 #391

    On -, @LowAndLeft32 said:

    If you believe Bobby Clampett that "blades are the ultimate game improvement iron" then you can have both blades and GI irons all in one club!!

    On a serious note, what we need in these debates are hard facts which are hard if not impossible to come by. The two test that I think may help expand the discussion would be:
    1) Iron Byron hitting a bunch of different shorts on different parts of the club face with both blades and Gis and then comparing the data for distance and dispersion.
    2) The other test which is difficult to execute would be to play say 50 rounds with blades and GI to see if scores are impacted. This may help to more accurately start to somewhat answer if one type of clubs improves scores. This would help eliminate the feel arguments, the distance on mishits arguments, ect. Why feel, distance, and dispersion are important and easy to talk about, they don't explain what type of score you get!

    I agree with #1 but once you have actual robot data to discuss, I think you have everything you need for a debate.

    If we're interested in comparing actual experiences, we don't need robot data. People can simply go buy both and try them out. Good sets are cheap and readily available on Ebay. It's not like it's hard to try out a decent set of blades in 2019.

    While I would love to settle the argument with robot data, I think people ultimately obsess too much about the potential difference in shots. While we do care about that, the big picture needs to involve questions like the following:

    (#1)
    Can a particular novice handle getting constant negative feedback from his/her golf clubs? At what point does maximizing feedback become a distraction that might lead the developing playing to over-do their iron practice and cut short their driving, chipping and putting?

    (#2)
    To build upon that first question, let's say you have 1-hr each weekday to practice. Maybe that means you get to spend 25-minutes hitting balls with the rest on short game (both chipping & putting). Let's say you play 9 on Friday instead of going to the range and focus on playing with friends over the weekend. So you ultimately spend a total of 100 minutes per week on your long game (25-min Mon thru Thurs). Let's say 20 minutes is spent with driver, 15 with fairway, and 35 with wedges hitting various distances. So you're now looking at spending a grand total of 30-minutes per week hitting shots with your irons. While that's spread across various days (which helps), is 30-minutes of practice enough to justify those clubs? What if we double that? Is 60-minutes of practicing sufficient?

    (#3)
    Is it even fundamentally helpful to continue pushing a reverence for blades that comes mostly from posterity when today's elite players are increasingly embracing CBs? In short, why encourage someone to be a purist in 2019 when there's no advantage in that?

    If we're truly golfers here, then we should care about golf shots. And until CBs become illegal, a great shot with a CB is still worth exactly the same as one with a MB. Encouraging people to consider the MB shot somehow better seems to me to be somewhat immature. You know, I used to think blades looked cooler than all other clubs. But with today's CBs I don't necessarily feel that way. Now that I don't really have a bias towards MBs I have to say, looking back, obsessing about blades all seems kind of pointless.

    I would never think bad about a playing partner who was using blades. Good for them. But the kind of talk you get online wherein guys are posting photos and stuff like that, well, we all know what that is. It's the LPGA fashion thread for the equipment forum.

    Posted:
    Driver: M3 w. Tensei CK Pro Org.
    Dr-Iron: 718 T-MB (2)
    Irons: 716 CB (3-Pw)
    Wedges: SM6 52-F / 56-F / 60-S
    Putter: Newport 2 Select
61

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