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Driver Fitting Proves What I've Believed ...


elthrill

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distance gains really arent proven by the data if your old driver was well fit, which mine was.

 

I had a fitting today outdoors on Trackman. made a lot of swing improvement and changes over the past 2 years. never hit irons and wedges better. but the driver has been much slower to come around. but the last month the driver is slowly clicking. so i wanted to get a new driver, because I play an R11s. i figured improving upon it would be a breeze. NOPE. Fitter was really good and thorough and nothing even came close to consistently improving ball speed or dispersion. Nada. I was shocked. The old R11s felt better and performed better than any of the new stuff. I didnt hit mizuno or cobra, but callaway and TM and titliest new stuff just couldnt do much. my swing speed was measuring 103-107, which is right where i play on the course. i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

 

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> @elthrill said:

> distance gains really arent proven by the data if your old driver was well fit, which mine was.

>

> I had a fitting today outdoors on Trackman. made a lot of swing improvement and changes over the past 2 years. never hit irons and wedges better. but the driver has been much slower to come around. but the last month the driver is slowly clicking. so i wanted to get a new driver, because I play an R11s. i figured improving upon it would be a breeze. NOPE. Fitter was really good and thorough and nothing even came close to consistently improving ball speed or dispersion. Nada. I was shocked. The old R11s felt better and performed better than any of the new stuff. I didnt hit mizuno or cobra, but callaway and TM and titliest new stuff just couldnt do much. my swing speed was measuring 103-107, which is right where i play on the course. i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

>

 

Not sure why you'd be shocked.

 

COR, or whatever the current term for it is, has been maxed out for over a dozen years so max ball speed won't vary much difference from head to head. Only thing you can do now is max out your launch conditions by marrying the "right" head with the right shaft.

 

Only thing the manufacturers can do is find ways to spread out the max speed as much as they can OFF the sweet spot thereby improving performance on OFF center hits along with improving forgiveness in general.

 

The rest is under "operator control". LOL

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9.0 Ventus Blue 6S

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

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> @nsxguy said:

> > @elthrill said:

> > distance gains really arent proven by the data if your old driver was well fit, which mine was.

> >

> > I had a fitting today outdoors on Trackman. made a lot of swing improvement and changes over the past 2 years. never hit irons and wedges better. but the driver has been much slower to come around. but the last month the driver is slowly clicking. so i wanted to get a new driver, because I play an R11s. i figured improving upon it would be a breeze. NOPE. Fitter was really good and thorough and nothing even came close to consistently improving ball speed or dispersion. Nada. I was shocked. The old R11s felt better and performed better than any of the new stuff. I didnt hit mizuno or cobra, but callaway and TM and titliest new stuff just couldnt do much. my swing speed was measuring 103-107, which is right where i play on the course. i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

> >

>

> Not sure why you'd be shocked.

>

> COR, or whatever the current term for it is, has been maxed out for over a dozen years so max ball speed won't vary much difference from head to head. Only thing you can do now is max out your launch conditions by marrying the "right" head with the right shaft.

>

> Only thing the manufacturers can do is find ways to spread out the max speed as much as they can OFF the sweet spot thereby improving performance on OFF center hits along with improving forgiveness in general.

>

> The rest is under "operator control". LOL

 

im on golfwrx. most guys have traded drivers 8 times since I last changed. so yeah, i expected more help from a new club damnit! and my smash was really solid all day. so anyway, $500 i Saved,

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> @elthrill said:

> i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

>

 

COR has been maxed out for a long time now. Since then the tech has mostly been addressing improvements for those people that can NOT hit the center of the face or have other impact issues that need some help from the head: off center COR, higher MOI, c.g. tweaks to better utilize or even minimize gear effect, etc...

 

So keep enjoying that r11 (I still have mine - although it's not my main driver).

 

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> @"Stuart G." said:

> > @Golfbeat said:

> > I just wonder then how people are hitting it further and further. Is it just improved swing mechanics and greater athleticism?

>

> Who's hitting it further and further? And where is the source of that data?

>

 

Yesterday on the telecast of the LPGA even they specifically talked about how I.K. Kim was driving the ball 20 yards farther then she ever had. I don't recall what, or if, they attributed it to. However, here are here stats for the past 3 years and currently. BTW, she average 273 during the ANA Inspiration.

 

2015 244.96

2017 248.29

2018 245.75

2019 267.45

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> @"North Texas" said:

> > @"Stuart G." said:

> > > @Golfbeat said:

> > > I just wonder then how people are hitting it further and further. Is it just improved swing mechanics and greater athleticism?

> >

> > Who's hitting it further and further? And where is the source of that data?

> >

>

> Yesterday on the telecast of the LPGA even they specifically talked about how I.K. Kim was driving the ball 20 yards farther then she ever had. I don't recall what, or if, they attributed it to. However, here are here stats for the past 3 years and currently. BTW, she average 273 during the ANA Inspiration.

>

> 2015 244.96

> 2017 248.29

> 2018 245.75

> 2019 267.45

 

They said shes working specifically on increasing SS

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> @"Stuart G." said:

> > @elthrill said:

> > i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

> >

>

> COR has been maxed out for a long time now. Since then the tech has mostly been addressing improvements for those people that can NOT hit the center of the face or have other impact issues that need some help from the head: off center COR, higher MOI, c.g. tweaks to better utilize or even minimize gear effect, etc...

>

> So keep enjoying that r11 (I still have mine - although it's not my main driver).

>

 

I would say a lot has gone into optimizing launch conditions as well.

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> @Krt22 said:

> > @"Stuart G." said:

> > > @elthrill said:

> > > i knew driver tech didnt really improve a great deal year to year, but in 8 years? i was surprised.

> > >

> >

> > COR has been maxed out for a long time now. Since then the tech has mostly been addressing improvements for those people that can NOT hit the center of the face or have other impact issues that need some help from the head: off center COR, higher MOI, c.g. tweaks to better utilize or even minimize gear effect, etc...

> >

> > So keep enjoying that r11 (I still have mine - although it's not my main driver).

> >

>

> I would say a lot has gone into optimizing launch conditions as well.

 

For certain individuals - but that comes under the covered category I already mentioned of: "or have other impact issues that need some help from the head" - which usually (although not always) means an impact with too much dynamic launch delivered and gets too much spin as a result.

 

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> @Golfbeat said:

> I just wonder then how people are hitting it further and further. Is it just improved swing mechanics and greater athleticism?

 

Juiced numbers, elevated tee boxes, tour stuff on the edge of being illegal (random tests done by R&A at British Open prove it may be a problem), new balls taking advantage of optimum conditions, driver heads and shafts taking advantage of optimum conditions. And also new fitness routines out there helps! Super speed sticks helped me so I’m sure they help the pros some. Launch monitors , all making the perfect storm of distance gains.

Not for us average joes though :(

 

 

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> @jshuff said:

> My driver fitting that I did a few weeks ago proved that, regardless of how much I try to hit up on the driver, I hit down on it between 0.5 to 2.0 degrees. ?‍♂️

 

Have you tried hitting the ball up a bit in your stance? The arc ascends later on in the swing. Swing normal and catch it on the upswing. I read this may work

 

 

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Even the ladies are into conditioning for the sport. Trust me, they are working out and doing everything they can to win. Not to mention any equipment tweaks they need for any given day.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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Should probably include the qualifier "properly fit". I did a pga superstore driver fitting years ago then did a fitting at Man'o'War in Lexington and it was a night and day difference.

SIM 2 Max 9.0 turned 7.0
TM Sim2 Titaniu, 13.5
TM RBZ 19* hybrid

TM RBZ 22* hybrid
Mizuno JPX 900 HM 5-PW
Vokey SM7 48* F Grind
Vokey SM7 54* F Grind
Vokey SM7 58* M Grind

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I played an Adams Fast 12 LS for 6 years because every fitting showed better or same numbers with the Adams.

The only reason I went to the Srixon z785 driver is the Adams finally died. I even bought another brand new Adams Fast 12 LS on eBay for $40 and that one broke within 40 rounds.

 

I have noticed much better forgiveness with the Srixon, but oddly enough I also notice I miss-hit the Srixon more often. I'm obsessed with looking at the driver face for contact point after every shot.

Srixon Z 785 9.5 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z F85 15 Atmos Tour Spec Black 60X
Srixon Z U85 18 Steelfiber i110 S
Srixon Z FORGED 3-9 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 46 Steelfiber i110 S
Cleveland RTX4 Forged 50 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland RTX4 58 Steelfiber i125 S
Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft Premier 11S

Bettinardi QB6 DASS High Polish
Srixon ZStar XV Yellow

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> @Stuart_G said:

> > @Golfbeat said:

> > I just wonder then how people are hitting it further and further. Is it just improved swing mechanics and greater athleticism?

>

> Who's hitting it further and further? And where is the source of that data?

>

 

Most, if not all amateurs can hit it further, with better swing mechanics firstly and of course being fitted properly. You'll find the average drive at your local club is around 220 yards, and that's being generous.

So, if a golfer swings it 95mph and he's getting 220yds, what do you think would be the issue?

Ping G410+ Tensei Orange Pro.

Mizuno GT180 shaft as above.

Adams 3H  Aldila Blue.

Wilson FG100 4i-PW.

Wilson PMP 52/56/60

Putters....too many.

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> @"NoFancyUsername." said:

> Most, if not all amateurs can hit it further,

 

Sorry, I see people saying that a lot - but I see very little data to actually support it, especially for amateur play. The USGA's and R+A's report is only really showing small gains - and that data is limited to the various professional tours and the increases are not inconsistent with the gains that are to be expected from improvements in fitness, swing biomechanics work, and even some ball improvements (spin control + aerodynamics).

 

> @"NoFancyUsername." said:

> You'll find the average drive at your local club is around 220 yards, and that's being generous.

 

Probably very generous - since we have a higher percentage of retirees at my club. But the topic is increases, not what the actual distance might be. And as far as increases go, I certainly haven't been seeing it myself :-) or for that matter in those around me at my club.

 

> @"NoFancyUsername." said:

> So, if a golfer swings it 95mph and he's getting 220yds, what do you think would be the issue?

 

Why do you think there is an issue in that which needs to be identified? Event the (very old) TM driver optimization charts are showing greater total distances than that for that swing speed - and 220 yds as a reasonable carry distance.

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On the amateur level most people do not hit it further than even 20 years ago. However there's a some that have pulled away and do clock it really well. The curve of all is more spiked, the 5-10% have taken it to new levels with modern driver but the gains of many is more muted. At least that's what I come across all the time at the range and the course.

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Yup! My own example...

In 2017 I got fit by a really good fitter for a Epic Subzero. Trackman, tons of shots with all different shafts, etc. etc. I was eventually fit for an Atmos Tour Black shaft with the heavy weight back and neutral on everything else.

 

Yesterday my local course has a "Masters Kickoff party" and part of it is a Taylormade demo/fitting. I know one of the pros pretty well so they let me try out a few things afterward with the help of the Taylormade rep. After hitting tons of head/shaft/setup combinations I eventually settled on the Tour Head and the Atmos Black (can't remember the exact specs of the weights). According to Flightscope I hit the Taylormade exactly.... a half yard longer (on average).

 

For irons it's probably even less important to have the newest and best IMO. Being fit properly into the proper type of irons (GI, Players, Etc.) is always going to be more important than having the latest. And yet.... So many golfers are willing to walk into a retail store and pay top dollar for what is new without even thinking of getting fit... Sigh

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I've said it before on here, I am hugely sceptical of big distance gains and custom fitting / premium shafts.

I've had several fittings over the years, sometimes with some really well respected fitters. I've had off the shelf drivers brought without any testing, fitted drivers, premium shafts etc etc and I have NEVER seen any noticeable distance or dispersion gain,only difference in how it feels.

 

What I do believe in is placebo, and I think that's a massive part of better driving with a new club. Same with putting.

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Driver tech has improved for some people, others it may not make a difference. Carbon Fiber allows for a lighter head and can allow for greater speeds. I hit my Callaway Rogue Sub Zero at least 15 yards longer than any other driver. But, the CoG is located a little more towards the heel and my mis-hits are toe biased...so consistency is an issue.

 

The Ping G400Max has the most MOI of any driver from head-to-toe and sole-to-crown of any driver on the market. It's been measured on the GolfMechanix CoG machine as such. But, I can hit other drivers further.

 

So, if I found a combination of the accuracy/consistency of the G400 Max and the distance of the Rogue SubZero...I'd be in great shape. But until I can...I'll stick with the G400 Max.

 

The shaft technology hasn't really changed much. TPT shafts are basically at more consistent and stringent bend profile tolerances, but it's not like being off by a few more cpm's in certain parts of the shaft will make for a worse shaft. Fujikura's Ventus shaft is interesting though as they had the very stiff tip with a soft butt section Evolution IV shaft and with the Ventus it appears to be like that on steroids which hits a market of softer loading players that can still generate quality club speed and who need that right launch/spin combo to get the most out of their drives.

 

The only other thing is that titanium drivers...yes, even titanium drivers...can go a little soft after years of hitting them and their smash factor can lower.

 

But in the end, don't be surprised if your old driver still works best...but don't be surprised if some of the modern drivers work much better as well. Depends on the fit.

 

 

 

RH

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> @ironcat said:

> I've said it before on here, I am hugely sceptical of big distance gains and custom fitting / premium shafts.

> I've had several fittings over the years, sometimes with some really well respected fitters. I've had off the shelf drivers brought without any testing, fitted drivers, premium shafts etc etc and I have NEVER seen any noticeable distance or dispersion gain,only difference in how it feels.

>

> What I do believe in is placebo, and I think that's a massive part of better driving with a new club. Same with putting.

 

 

The problem with most peoples thought process in regards to fitting is that they do not understand that the gains do not really come from how good or advanced the new stuff is - but rather thy mostly come from **how badly their old stuff fit them**. So yes, large gains really do happen - they are just not things that everyone should expect - especially those that have gone through the process before and at least are in the right ball park for their swing.

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> @Stuart_G said:

> > @ironcat said:

> > I've said it before on here, I am hugely sceptical of big distance gains and custom fitting / premium shafts.

> > I've had several fittings over the years, sometimes with some really well respected fitters. I've had off the shelf drivers brought without any testing, fitted drivers, premium shafts etc etc and I have NEVER seen any noticeable distance or dispersion gain,only difference in how it feels.

> >

> > What I do believe in is placebo, and I think that's a massive part of better driving with a new club. Same with putting.

>

>

> The problem with most peoples thought process in regards to fitting is that they do not understand that the gains do not really come from how good or advanced the new stuff is - but rather thy mostly come from **how badly their old stuff fit them**. So yes, large gains really do happen - they are just not things that everyone should expect - especially those that have gone through the process before and at least are in the right ball park for their swing.

 

I agree but I think this only matters to people with abnormal swing characteristics, such as huge lag, very fast/slow swing speed etc. For 95% of us manufacturers are designing their retail clubs to work as best as possible right off the shelf which is why many don't see a massive benefit in custom fitting.

 

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> @ironcat said:

> I agree but I think this only matters to people with abnormal swing characteristics, such as huge lag, very fast/slow swing speed etc. For 95% of us manufacturers are designing their retail clubs to work as best as possible right off the shelf which is why many don't see a massive benefit in custom fitting.

>

 

Well, that's really a separate issue but No, stock configurations are only chosen for distance because that's what sells, not accuracy or consistency or how far offline they don't go. Lighter and longer shafts - on the hope that the buyer will only notice that 1 in 5 shot that they actually manage to hit the center of the face and all the other bad results were only their fault and not made worse by the equipment. But even that's assuming the sales folks actually are good enough to get the player in the right loft. There is a lot more to fitting than that. The percentage of people who really do fit well into the stock set-ups is more like 1% - if that.

 

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> @Stuart_G said:

There is a lot more to fitting than that. The percentage of people who really do fit well into the stock set-ups is more like 1% - if that.

>

 

Well in my own experience having been fit and many players I know, none of them have ever seen any significant gains in distance or accuracy this doesn't ring true at all. Off the shelf is just as good as custom fit 90% of the time. I've seen the numbers and seen the real-world results. No difference.

 

When someone comes back with a $500 shaft and a new head I know it will put them in the same places as their previous off-the-shelf club time and time again. Seen it so many times.

 

And this is a range of handicaps, from scratch to 22.

 

The only exception I have seen to this is a guy who swings is 120+ and a guy who is like 6ft 5 who was playing regular length irons.

 

 

 

 

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> @ironcat said:

> > @Stuart_G said:

> There is a lot more to fitting than that. The percentage of people who really do fit well into the stock set-ups is more like 1% - if that.

> >

>

> Well in my own experience having been fit and many players I know, none of them have ever seen any significant gains in distance or accuracy this doesn't ring true at all. Off the shelf is just as good as custom fit 90% of the time. I've seen the numbers and seen the real-world results. No difference.

>

> When someone comes back with a $500 shaft and a new head I know it will put them in the same places as their previous off-the-shelf club time and time again. Seen it so many times.

>

> And this is a range of handicaps, from scratch to 22.

>

> The only exception I have seen to this is a guy who swings is 120+ and a guy who is like 6ft 5 who was playing regular length irons.

>

>

>

>

 

In my own experience, this is very accurate. And I would add. that in addition to not seeing any significant gains in distance or accuracy, I have not seen any better scores either. And, ironcat says, my experience includes myself.

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A few years ago, I was "fit". Guy basically watched me swing, checked my swing speed with a little radar (not a trackman). He goes, "OK. I'll let the gremlins in my head turn it over for a few days."

 

He eventually recommended a (UST Axivcore) shaft and told me to get any head I wanted. Got a Ping G25 as I like looking at Pings. And it was an improvement over my glued G15.

 

ANYWAY, last year there were Titleist fitters with trackman at my range. I hit a few with mine for baseline. They gave me a new head to compare. Worse. Changed the loft. Worse. Changed a shaft. Worse. Eventually the guy goes, "just stick with the Ping".

 

If you actually care about scoring and not new equipment and not chasing numbers, you can just step off the treadmill any time you want and start committing to your driver. Always remember, they're not selling you new drivers. They're selling you anxiety that your driver isn't good enough.

 

(that said, I am intrigued by the G-400 Max and might look at one at the end of this golf season.)

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Ping G400 LST 10º XTORSION Copper 60
RBZ Stage 2 4W 17º
Strong torso
Cobra f6 Hybrid
Mizuno JPX-900 Forged 4I-GW
Vokey 54º/14º F-grind
Vokey 60º/04º. "The Scalpel"
Odyssey Stroke Lab Black Ten
Oncore Elixir Neon Green

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> @ironcat said:

> Well in my own experience having been fit and many players I know, none of them have ever seen any significant gains in distance or accuracy this doesn't ring true at all. Off the shelf is just as good as custom fit 90% of the time. I've seen the numbers and seen the real-world results. No difference.

>

> When someone comes back with a $500 shaft and a new head I know it will put them in the same places as their previous off-the-shelf club time and time again. Seen it so many times.

>

> And this is a range of handicaps, from scratch to 22.

>

> The only exception I have seen to this is a guy who swings is 120+ and a guy who is like 6ft 5 who was playing regular length irons.

>

 

If you read the post a bit more carefully, it's pretty clear I wasn't talking about distance with respect to the fit being poor.

 

And not a day goes by on this forum where we see folks come asking for help because the stock spec drivers are causing them problems with impact consistency, accuracy, control, managing spin or launch, and more. If the fittings you've seen haven't helped improve over the performance with stock specs it likely wasn't much of a fitting. How much time did they spend trying out different playing lengths? How much time with different shaft weights? different swing weights? - was any lead tape used?, did they have the proper grip size available to use during the testing? How many different shaft stiffness profiles were tested? How closely did the fitter pay attention to face impact? Did the LM even actually measure club data or just ball data? Going to a retail store and rotating through a few different heads or even shafts out of the fitting cart is not a real fitting. So for those "fittings", I wouldn't' expect to see much improvement either.

 

 

 

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      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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