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Is on course technology ruining the game for amateurs?


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on course management has never been an issue for me, which is probably why these guys who laser everything bugs me.....putting on the other hand??? I need Rodney Dangerfields putter from Caddyshack. Now that's tech I can get behind. > @Shilgy said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > Like I said, its a minute, but feels like 5.....so I did exaggerate the time to make a point. Anyway, guys laser on every shot and on **par 5's where you cant get to the hole in 2, I don't see the point**. "Its 240 to the tree out there"......or "its 175 to carry that bunker" when we are 280 total away from the green....unnecessary times to laser. > @MelloYello said:

> > > If a guy gets 3 distinct yardages with a rangefinder shooting the same target, he's an idiot.

> > >

> > > In all seriousness, maybe he's a senior with shaky hands or something? Anyhow, but that's ridiculous. If he can't use it reliably without taking 5 minutes he shouldn't have it. But I've never come across what you're describing. Most guys who are dedicated enough to have rangefinders aren't the clueless morons you're describing.

> >

> >

>

> Perhaps you should work on course management if you don't get the point? Can't get there in two? How far to clear the fairway bunker? How far to lay up short of it? How far total so I know how far to a number I like to lay up to? Where is the pin so I know the angle I want in?

>

> It sounds like a lot of questions but it actually speeds up play to know those things.

 

 

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Totally agree that Slow players will always be Slow, I do believe that GPS does encourage faster play since it is basically a glance at your wrist and you have a good yardage........yes the Laser is more accurate but generally takes more time and the majority of time the slight variance makes little difference in club selection. The technology in Lasers has gotten much better, the gap between Bushnell/Leupold and the lower priced lasers is pretty much gone, so most all the Lasers grab the flag quickly and dont get background yardages adding time to the process. The more options that are added in to a measuring device the more it will add time, keep it simple.

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I think it can make a game faster. Last year I played a round with a fellow who had a range finder, I was trying to figure my shot on a few holes finally he steps next to me, shoots the pin, gives me a distance and less than a min I have my club, 2 practice swings and my shots. Did this a few more times and took any and all guess work out, can spend more time looking at where to aim and best miss. Sped my game up so much, ended up buying a rangefinder.

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Maybe its just my course but once again, playing behind a 3some and they all had range finders....shooting every shot and comparing distances "Hey, I have 142 over here"....."I have 143 over here" then they hit the ball 50 yards......they should check handicap before they allow really bad golfers to use these things all day....its brutal sometimes....

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i can play with a 4some in less than 3.5 hours -- we all have lasers, playing off back tees.

 

i guarantee you we would play longer if we had to use yardage markers, sprinkler heads, etc to figure out distances. not the other way around.

 

thank you the powers that be for giving us rangefinders -- it makes tournament play that much easier. further, usga, get your mind right and allow these things for qualifiers.

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> @tsecor said:

> I get it Gio but for amateurs who really need to focus on getting the ball in the air and to hit it straight, I just don't see the value

 

So you're of the theory they're probably going to duff it anyway so why would they want to know how far they need to hit it. Right?

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> @tsecor said:

> I get it Gio but for amateurs who really need to focus on getting the ball in the air and to hit it straight, I just don't see the value

 

yes there's a degree to which a laser is useless based on the player not being able to hit a reasonable shot -- but it will only help people realize/learn ACTUAL distances and not, "oh i'm by the 150...on the last hole i hit x club, so this hole i should hit the same" ---except last hole the pin was front and this one is back. so much goes into it but, i'm just saying that for as much angst as it may cause you for a round or two; in the long run it's very good for the game.

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well..for some people, yea....for the guys who can actually play ok, its fine but in my experience the ones with the rangefinders play very slow....its like they are Jordan Spieth out there discussing their shot for 3 min each time..> @"North Butte" said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > I get it Gio but for amateurs who really need to focus on getting the ball in the air and to hit it straight, I just don't see the value

>

> So you're of the theory they're probably going to duff it anyway so why would they want to know how far they need to hit it. Right?

 

 

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And you think if they were using yardage books and sprinkler heads they would be faster?

 

I saw slow guys procrastinating forever before each shot for years before anyone ever marketed a GPS or laser rangefinder to golfers. How long have you been playing golf? Twenty-thirty years ago it was a commonplace to see groups of golfers wandering to and fro trying to help each other find a sprinkler head that had markings on it. I'd much rather see one guy ask another to laser the flag and call out a number. He'll get an answer in 10 seconds flat.

 

And then don't get me started on the discussions about whether that 165 written on the sprinkler is right or not. That could take a good 2-3 minutes right there.

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I will say possibly......but probably not because like what was mentioned above....slow players are slow players most likely. Ive been playing long enough to remember those days, but when you saw a 200 or 150 marker, you just started counting steps and your yardage would be determined as you walked to your ball....you would know when you got to your ball, pull the club and hit it....now its, get to your ball, reach into your GPS pocket, pull the laser out, shoot it, discuss it, pull the club and hit....

 

but I understand all the other points of view. The slow play is more of an annoyance to me. Its like 99% of the guys on the course think they are tiger woods and have to take 3 minutes to hit a shot....I play ready golf when I go out and never get offended if a guy is ready to play and wants to hit before me..... as far as it helping amateurs, I am not sure you can quantify that. > @"North Butte" said:

> And you think if they were using yardage books and sprinkler heads they would be faster?

>

> I saw slow guys procrastinating forever before each shot for years before anyone ever marketed a GPS or laser rangefinder to golfers. How long have you been playing golf? Twenty-thirty years ago it was a commonplace to see groups of golfers wandering to and fro trying to help each other find a sprinkler head that had markings on it. I'd much rather see one guy ask another to laser the flag and call out a number. He'll get an answer in 10 seconds flat.

>

> And then don't get me started on the discussions about whether that 165 written on the sprinkler is right or not. That could take a good 2-3 minutes right there.

 

 

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I've got one of those fancy image-stabilized Nikons. It works so well I can (and occasionally do when playing solo) literally shoot the flag while I'm still walking to the ball. Pretty cool.

 

Of course my problem isn't being slow. It's the opposite. If I'm not careful, I'll be power-walking in five minutes a hole and hitting shots while I'm literally out of breath. Type A personalities and golf are a tricky mix!

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Bottom line is simple, players who move quickly and effectively around the course will handle their GPS and lasers the same way, quickly and efficiently. People who are slow in using them are likely slow in all the other aspects of the game as well.

We even tell yardages to others if they’re just in the vicinity. Maybe I’m at my ball and one of the other guys pulls up to his ball a short distance away, I’ll tell him what I shot for my yardage for on my ball, and often he won’t even shoot his distance.

 


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I'm not sure what course uses sprinkler heads as yardage markers any longer but the colored markers out on the course are easily identifiable. If you don't know the stride is = to ~3 feet when walking past the marker, I'm not sure how a laser finder makes things better, faster and helps. If you hit it 10 feet past the 150, when you get to your ball you already know the yardage....taking 3 minutes to laser something and discussing it fist really doesn't make sense to me either. > @MaxBuck said:

> How is it more time-consuming to use a laser or GPS than pacing off from one or more sprinkler heads? In the old days, the anal-retentive golfers were painstakingly slow with the latter approach.

>

> I really don't understand the reasoning behind this thread.

 

 

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I've noticed over the last several years courses are doing away with marked sprinkler heads (almost everywhere) and even with 100/150/200/250 plates in the middle of the fairway. With lasers in 90% of golfer's bags and GPS showing up built-in to carts there's not much reason to buy or maintain old-fashioned pace-off yardage markers.

 

My home course was renovated a decade-plus ago and never bothered to even move the 100/150/200/250 plates, even on the holes where greens were moved by up to 10-15 yards.

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I have seen GPS added but not removed. Not everyone takes a cart and a ton of people still walk. A ton of places still have yardage books available as well. > @"North Butte" said:

> I've noticed over the last several years courses are doing away with marked sprinkler heads (almost everywhere) and even with 100/150/200/250 plates in the middle of the fairway. With lasers in 90% of golfer's bags and GPS showing up built-in to carts there's not much reason to buy or maintain old-fashioned pace-off yardage markers.

>

> My home course was renovated a decade-plus ago and never bothered to even move the 100/150/200/250 plates, even on the holes where greens were moved by up to 10-15 yards.

 

 

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> @farmer said:

> I live and play where the wind is almost always blowing to some amount. I cannot reliably catch the flag with both me and the flag moving, so a GPS is best for me.

 

Yeah, I quit taking my laser back when I was making yearly trips to the UK to play. Wind and/or rain and/or blind shots everywhere you go. Why bother trying to get a fix with a laser.

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More technology is the answer. I wear a golf watch and have a range finder. By the time I get to my ball I already know within a few yards what the next shot will be. If I need more info it takes maybe 15 seconds to get the range finder on it.

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> @tsecor said:

> not really. maybe its the opposite...someone who loves the tech hates when an opposite opinion is mentioned?? I'm just giving you my experience with the laser guys....they laser a pin and get three readings, then talk about it......it adds a lot to the shot time along with their warm up swings.....and when they hit it short or in the woods, it becomes a SMH moment> @GowerND11 said:

> > I don't think I have ever seen someone (myself included) use a device for longer than 15 seconds to get the yardages they need. Most probably average about 8 seconds. I think this is one of those things where some people that just hate the tech immediately go to complain mode and are convinced it's just bad. That, or you're playing with slow players who'd be slow no matter what.

>

>

 

At the end of the day I think you just play with slow players. They will be slow whatever they do.

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Tools can be both good and bad, depending on how one uses them.

 

For me, GPS/LRFs are useful for probably 2-3 shots in any given round - at times when course markers are unhelpful or unavailable. Outside of that, I am very comfortable using course markers and dead reckoning. In fact, this method tends to result in a better feel for the shot, and hence better results, because it helps to keep me from getting too number focused.

 

Ultimately, the problem with GPS/LRFs is that many people become overly focused on the technology, and the single bit of data they provide - a yardage number.

 

Ultimately, a good golf shot requires a player to consider a wide variety of factors. The yardage number is just one of them.

 

 

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I use a laser range finder when I play and can't imagine playing a round without it anymore. I would agree that slow players will always be slow players no matter what the technology. It takes me 10 seconds or less to get the yarage I'm looking for then making my decision based off of that. As noted above, the yardage number isn't the only factor though, you need to take into account wind, elevation, lie etc. Personally, I like to get the yardage then base my club selection off of those other factors.

 

The GPS devices are nice and two of the guys I regularly golf with use them, but I'd personally rather have the distance to the flag. The GPS devices give you the yardage to front, middle, & back of the green but if the green is elevated you sometimes can't tell where the flag is placement is. Often playing with the GPS guys they will give me a yardage from their devices to the green, I then laser the flag and it can be 10 yards or more off due to pin placement. In that scenario, the laser range finders are superior because it can prevent me from pulling the incorrect club for a yardage based solely off front, middle, or back.

 

Having said that, that type of thinking isn't beneficial to every golfer. If you are playing with 20 handicapper who has trouble making consistent contact then he doesn't need a range finder to know if the pin is 130 or 138 yards away, front, middle, and back is sufficient enough.

 

I think most amateurs would benefit the most from knowing how far they actually hit each club. Most guys like to think they hit each club 10+ yards longer than they actually do. I couldn't tell you how many times I've played with guys who have the yardage to the pin and/or front, middle, back then still end up 10-20 yards short of the green because they think they hit their 9 iron 150 yards.

 

 

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its usually the people ahead of me that are taking 3 min a shot....guys I play with don't use lasers because they rarely hit it straight and its wouldn't matter anyway ..lol......the other night two guys on the adjacent fairway both had lasers out getting a distance from 4 feet away from each other....then they discussed it..."I have 175 to that tree and 165 to the pin".....the other guy disputed it and they argued over 3 yards....I actually said "hey guys, really?" .....they asked me what my issue was and thought I was the bad guy. > @Bad9 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > not really. maybe its the opposite...someone who loves the tech hates when an opposite opinion is mentioned?? I'm just giving you my experience with the laser guys....they laser a pin and get three readings, then talk about it......it adds a lot to the shot time along with their warm up swings.....and when they hit it short or in the woods, it becomes a SMH moment> @GowerND11 said:

> > > I don't think I have ever seen someone (myself included) use a device for longer than 15 seconds to get the yardages they need. Most probably average about 8 seconds. I think this is one of those things where some people that just hate the tech immediately go to complain mode and are convinced it's just bad. That, or you're playing with slow players who'd be slow no matter what.

> >

> >

>

> At the end of the day I think you just play with slow players. They will be slow whatever they do.

 

 

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There is apparently some sort of app or gadget now that lets players on two different courses (or even in two different countries) play rounds simultaneously and track each other's shots in real time. A buddy of mine played with a guy doing that. He literally compared scores after every hole with his friend on a different course, including typing trash-talk messages back and forth and even doing press bets.

 

My buddy said these guys have literally invented a whole new level in slow play. There are more kinds of slow play in the world than are dreamt of in my philosophy.

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Just give me the 150 marker and I'm good to go without any technology in the bag. I don't pace anything off, just a solid guess (from a lifetime playing & watching football) on how many yards I'm behind or in front of the 150 stick. As mentioned above, once in a while a playing partner will call out their laser yardage from nearby and my guess is confirmed within a few yards either way.

 

Watching the Champs Tour last night and Lanny Wadkins was explaining (bragging more like it lol) how he was predominantly a feel golfer back in the day and sometimes he'd guess the yardage better than his caddie. I love instinct and going on the feels, werd to Lanny!

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