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Do any average joes like me (103 SS) game an X in their driver, and stiff in their fairways? I have a smooth tempo, but I have to slow my swing down with the driver or I end up with a giant slice. So, I end up hitting my 3w off most tees, because it basically goes the same distance as my driver. So, I am leaving some distance at the tee box. Now, I know the slice is just part of my swing mechanics, I'm taking some lessons to correct it, but I've wondered if I went up to an X flex shaft so I can really go after it with my driver what is going to happen?

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> @KGilma said:

> Do any average joes like me (103 SS) game an X in their driver, and stiff in their fairways? I have a smooth tempo, but I have to slow my swing down with the driver or I end up with a giant slice. So, I end up hitting my 3w off most tees, because it basically goes the same distance as my driver. So, I am leaving some distance at the tee box. Now, I know the slice is just part of my swing mechanics, I'm taking some lessons to correct it, but I've wondered if I went up to an X flex shaft so I can really go after it with my driver what is going to happen?

 

Unfortunately that's not an easy one for us to answer for you. When you "go at it" with the stiff shaft and feel you have to slow down, is it only a function of the slice results? Or is it that you think you feel the shaft loading too much and that might be causing some type of stalling of the release - which results in leaving the face open? It's more common for someone with a more aggressive transition instead of smooth - but it can happen to anyone. Also, it's not always a conscious thing so sometimes the only way to find out the answer is to go try some stiffer shafts and see what happens to the ball flight. If you get less of that slice action or don't feel you have to slow things down as much with the stiffer shaft, then yes, it would be a good idea to go to that stiffer shaft. If you don't see any difference, then there is no reason to go up.

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> @"Stuart G." said:

> > @KGilma said:

> > Do any average joes like me (103 SS) game an X in their driver, and stiff in their fairways? I have a smooth tempo, but I have to slow my swing down with the driver or I end up with a giant slice. So, I end up hitting my 3w off most tees, because it basically goes the same distance as my driver. So, I am leaving some distance at the tee box. Now, I know the slice is just part of my swing mechanics, I'm taking some lessons to correct it, but I've wondered if I went up to an X flex shaft so I can really go after it with my driver what is going to happen?

>

> Unfortunately that's not an easy one for us to answer for you. When you "go at it" with the stiff shaft and feel you have to slow down, is it only a function of the slice results? **Or is it that you think you feel the shaft loading too much and that might be causing some type of stalling of the release - which results in leaving the face open? ** It's more common for someone with a more aggressive transition instead of smooth - but it can happen to anyone. Also, it's not always a conscious thing so sometimes the only way to find out the answer is to go try some stiffer shafts and see what happens to the ball flight. If you get less of that slice action or don't feel you have to slow things down as much with the stiffer shaft, then yes, it would be a good idea to go to that stiffer shaft. If you don't see any difference, then there is no reason to go up.

 

The slice is only there when I really try to go at it. When I consciously focus on slowing my speed and maintaining an even tempo, the ball flight is straight, or slight fade. Which leads me to believe the shaft is loading too much leaving the club face open when I go at it. I am thinking about ordering a few demo's in S and X from the shaft shack, to test my theory.

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It is very possible that you can find a shaft that performs better for you than what you are currently playing. Whether it has an "S" or an "X" on it is most likely going to be arbitrary, however.

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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> @jholz said:

> It is very possible that you can find a shaft that performs better for you than what you are currently playing. Whether it has an "S" or an "X" on it is most likely going to be arbitrary, however.

 

I'm not using anything fancy either, I went from the stock ping Alta S, to the ping Tour S. Which was an upgrade, and helped a little but mostly kept the ball from flying as high.

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I do. but like a few guys said, there is no standard so its meaningless. In my irons I play the s400 tour and while they are probably too stiff for me per most peoples opinions, I get a lot of control out of them. > @KGilma said:

> Do any average joes like me (103 SS) game an X in their driver, and stiff in their fairways? I have a smooth tempo, but I have to slow my swing down with the driver or I end up with a giant slice. So, I end up hitting my 3w off most tees, because it basically goes the same distance as my driver. So, I am leaving some distance at the tee box. Now, I know the slice is just part of my swing mechanics, I'm taking some lessons to correct it, but I've wondered if I went up to an X flex shaft so I can really go after it with my driver what is going to happen?

 

 

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> @KGilma said:

> > @jholz said:

> > It is very possible that you can find a shaft that performs better for you than what you are currently playing. Whether it has an "S" or an "X" on it is most likely going to be arbitrary, however.

>

> I'm not using anything fancy either, I went from the stock ping Alta S, to the ping Tour S. Which was an upgrade, and helped a little but mostly kept the ball from flying as high.

 

PING's proprietary shafts have always had a solid reputation, so I don't think you are losing anything to quality over an aftermarket shaft.

 

Given your description of the issue - that the slice emerges from really "going after it" with the driver - do you think that you swing your 3wood differently? Is it also a PING club and does it have a similar shaft as the driver?

 

One additional thing to consider: have you tinkered with any heavier or lighter weight shafts?

 

Be mindful, however, once you go down the shaft rabbit hole, you may never fully escape. And if you do, you will never be able to reclaim the innocence you once possessed.

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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They> @jholz said:

> > @KGilma said:

> > > @jholz said:

> > > It is very possible that you can find a shaft that performs better for you than what you are currently playing. Whether it has an "S" or an "X" on it is most likely going to be arbitrary, however.

> >

> > I'm not using anything fancy either, I went from the stock ping Alta S, to the ping Tour S. Which was an upgrade, and helped a little but mostly kept the ball from flying as high.

>

> PING's proprietary shafts have always had a solid reputation, so I don't think you are losing anything to quality over an aftermarket shaft.

>

> Given your description of the issue - that the slice emerges from really "going after it" with the driver - do you think that you swing your 3wood differently? Is it also a PING club and does it have a similar shaft as the driver?

>

> One additional thing to consider: have you tinkered with any heavier or lighter weight shafts?

>

> Be mindful, however, once you go down the shaft rabbit hole, you may never fully escape. And if you do, you will never be able to reclaim the innocence you once possessed.

 

The driver and 3w are both Ping G series, and they both have the ping tour shaft. The heavier shaft in the 3w greatly improved it, also. So, I supposed a heavier driver shaft could help too.

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Yes, drivers are typically going to have a lighter weight shaft - most likely in the 50-60g range. 3woods typically go to 60-70g. Some players do find that a heavier shaft does good things for their swing.

 

You might also look at the length of the driver shaft vs. 3wood. I straightened out my driver a great deal by going to a 44" shaft.

 

If you've got some spare time and cash, there are a ton of used shafts on ebay with PING tips already installed. Most going in the $60-$90 dollar range. If you have the inclination, I'd pick up a couple of cheap ones to experiment with. Maybe a heavier Stiff, a comparable X, and one identical to what you have, that you could cut down.

Cleveland Launcher HB 10.5* - Stock Miyazaki C. Kua 50 Stiff
Callaway Diablo Octane Tour 13* - Aldila NV 75 Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour 15* - Accra Dymatch M5 75
Mizuno F-50 18* - Stock Stiff
or
Callaway Diablo Edge Tour Hybrid 21* - Aldila NV 85 Stiff
Callaway RAZR Tour Hybrid 24* - Stock XStiff
5 - PW Cleveland CG7 Tour Black Pearl - DGSL S300
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 50* DG Wedge
Cleveland 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54* DG Wedge
Callaway X-Series JAWS Slate CC 58* Stock Wedge
Odyssey White Ice #7 - Golf Pride Oversize

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> @Lukshannon said:

> I swing KBS tour S flex in all my irons except my driving iron is a Tour Ad-dI 95s

> My driver is a Diamana ‘ilima 60g X-flex

> And my 3 wood is S flex

> My driver ss is about 106, unless I’m tired then it’s 103 ish, or if I feel like hulk it’s in 110-115

 

Do you feel like there are any draw backs when your swinging normally or when your tired with the X?

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> @KGilma said:

> Which leads me to believe the shaft is loading too much leaving the club face open when I go at it.

 

A common misconception based on feel but that's not what's really happening. It's actually virtually impossible for too much loading to leave the face open and still make contact with the ball with a good swing. No matter how much you load it, the shaft will always unload by the time impact occurs - frequently long before - but that's a different subject matter. Simply put (it's really a bit more complicated) this is due to the fact that you must stall the hands in order to release the club and that deceleration will always cause the shaft to unload. So "too much loading" (not a real thing) will generally mean a more closed club face, not open, if the release is not done too early.

 

More than likely your sequencing and timing get's messed up when you 'go at it'. How much the feel from the shaft loading might be contributing to that (or not) is the question that needs to be addressed when deciding to change shafts.

 

 

 

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I am pretty much right on your swing speed - 100 to 105. I used to game an Aldila Rogue Silver 110msi 60g in a GBB 10.5. Recently accidentally bent the shaft and got fit for the F9. Ended up with a totally different set up - Atmos TS Black 6X 69g F9 at 9 degrees... hit it great during testing, but have some pretty bad ones at the range sprayed in too.. unfortunately so many things changed that I'm not sure what to blame.. but my suspicion is that for me personally, I need to be in a stiff. I ordered a Atmos TS Black 6S 65g and Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 70g off eBay to test out my theory and will ultimately sell the two that I like the least. That being said, my left to right dispersion on reasonably well hit shots is better than it used to be on bad days, but I'm having more mishits on any given day than I had in the past. I also feel like I have to work really hard to get the ball to go straight, couldn't draw it if my life depended on it, and if I get lazy it will fade or slice. I think I was swinging my best swing on the day of the fitting, for better or worse. I had some reservations after getting fit into an X because it feels a bit stiff to me even on my waggle.. so I'd suggest hitting anything you're considering and then maybe even going back another day and hitting it again to make sure.

Titleist TSi3 8*, Tensei AV White 65X

Cobra Big Tour 3W, Project X HZRDUS RDX Blue 70X

Ping G425 19* 3H, LA Golf Tour AXS Red 85X

Taylormade UDI 3i, Diamana Thump 100X

Taylormade p790 5-AW, C-Taper 130X

Titleist Vokey SM7 52* 10S bent to 53

Titleist Vokey SM7 56* 8M bent to 57

Titleist Vokey SM7 60* 12D

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> @Ookluh said:

> I am pretty much right on your swing speed - 100 to 105. I used to game an Aldila Rogue Silver 110msi 60g in a GBB 10.5. Recently accidentally bent the shaft and got fit for the F9. Ended up with a totally different set up - Atmos TS Black 6X 69g F9 at 9 degrees... hit it great during testing, but have some pretty bad ones at the range sprayed in too.. unfortunately so many things changed that I'm not sure what to blame.. but my suspicion is that for me personally, I need to be in a stiff. I ordered a Atmos TS Black 6S 65g and Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 70g off eBay to test out my theory and will ultimately sell the two that I like the least. That being said, my left to right dispersion on reasonably well hit shots is better than it used to be on bad days, but I'm having more mishits on any given day than I had in the past. I also feel like I have to work really hard to get the ball to go straight, couldn't draw it if my life depended on it, and if I get lazy it will fade or slice. I think I was swinging my best swing on the day of the fitting, for better or worse. I had some reservations after getting fit into an X because it feels a bit stiff to me even on my waggle.. so I'd suggest hitting anything you're considering and then maybe even going back another day and hitting it again to make sure.

 

I demoed the F9 also I hit the 60g Smoke better, but they did not have a 70g available at that time. I hit it really well, as good if not better than my current Ping G. I may go try it again, with an X flex and the heavier shaft. Golf Galaxy is doing +50% trade value too, so that helps.

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I've had a couple short sessions with the 70g 6.0 Hzrdus Smoke, Atmos Black TS 6S, and Atmos Black TS 6X.... Still undecided, but leaning away from the Smoke.. definitely hit some high bombs but have also had a few balloon on me. It feels like the stiff Smoke has a bit more kick/flex than the Atmos Black 6S. In the end, obviously go with what you like.. I'm currently leaning 6S over X. For what it's worth (back to your original post), when I really "go after it" is when I tend to slice it. Slowing my tempo down a bit usually results in better timing and release.

Titleist TSi3 8*, Tensei AV White 65X

Cobra Big Tour 3W, Project X HZRDUS RDX Blue 70X

Ping G425 19* 3H, LA Golf Tour AXS Red 85X

Taylormade UDI 3i, Diamana Thump 100X

Taylormade p790 5-AW, C-Taper 130X

Titleist Vokey SM7 52* 10S bent to 53

Titleist Vokey SM7 56* 8M bent to 57

Titleist Vokey SM7 60* 12D

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> @Ookluh said:

> I've had a couple short sessions with the 70g 6.0 Hzrdus Smoke, Atmos Black TS 6S, and Atmos Black TS 6X.... Still undecided, but leaning away from the Smoke.. definitely hit some high bombs but have also had a few balloon on me. It feels like the stiff Smoke has a bit more kick/flex than the Atmos Black 6S. In the end, obviously go with what you like.. I'm currently leaning 6S over X. For what it's worth (back to your original post), when I really "go after it" is when I tend to slice it. Slowing my tempo down a bit usually results in better timing and release.

 

I hit all of them yesterday actually, on an F9, and I Found the 60g Smoke 6.0 was the best at any swing speed, or effort level. The Smoke 6.5 did feel a little more stable when I "went after it" and it was slightly longer too, but the dispersion was nowhere near as good when I was swinging normally. The Atmos S I just didn't care for and it was more spinny. I hit my ping G side by side with the F9 too. The G's spin was 500-600 rpm higher, launch angle was lower, swing speed averaged 2 mph less, and ball speed was 5 mph less than the F9. I also tried the Epic Flash sub zero, it felt much heavier than my driver and the F9, I was only able to hit the Smoke 60 6.0, though. It was pretty similar to the F9, dispersion was not as good, but the numbers were similar that I could go with either. i just didn't like it, mostly the looks of it. Now, to convince my wife I need to buy a new driver...

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> @KGilma said:

> > @Ookluh said:

> > I've had a couple short sessions with the 70g 6.0 Hzrdus Smoke, Atmos Black TS 6S, and Atmos Black TS 6X.... Still undecided, but leaning away from the Smoke.. definitely hit some high bombs but have also had a few balloon on me. It feels like the stiff Smoke has a bit more kick/flex than the Atmos Black 6S. In the end, obviously go with what you like.. I'm currently leaning 6S over X. For what it's worth (back to your original post), when I really "go after it" is when I tend to slice it. Slowing my tempo down a bit usually results in better timing and release.

>

> I hit all of them yesterday actually, on an F9, and I Found the 60g Smoke 6.0 was the best at any swing speed, or effort level. The Smoke 6.5 did feel a little more stable when I "went after it" and it was slightly longer too, but the dispersion was nowhere near as good when I was swinging normally. The Atmos S I just didn't care for and it was more spinny. I hit my ping G side by side with the F9 too. The G's spin was 500-600 rpm higher, launch angle was lower, swing speed averaged 2 mph less, and ball speed was 5 mph less than the F9. I also tried the Epic Flash sub zero, it felt much heavier than my driver and the F9, I was only able to hit the Smoke 60 6.0, though. It was pretty similar to the F9, dispersion was not as good, but the numbers were similar that I could go with either. i just didn't like it, mostly the looks of it. Now, to convince my wife I need to buy a new driver...

 

Hah, good luck on that last part! Funny that we have totally different impressions of the Smoke vs Atmos, but maybe it's dependent on swing too. Glad you found something you liked. I swung the Epic and G410 too, but everything was fairly similar so I just went with the F9 for sound, feel, and price.

Titleist TSi3 8*, Tensei AV White 65X

Cobra Big Tour 3W, Project X HZRDUS RDX Blue 70X

Ping G425 19* 3H, LA Golf Tour AXS Red 85X

Taylormade UDI 3i, Diamana Thump 100X

Taylormade p790 5-AW, C-Taper 130X

Titleist Vokey SM7 52* 10S bent to 53

Titleist Vokey SM7 56* 8M bent to 57

Titleist Vokey SM7 60* 12D

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> @KGilma said:

> > @"Stuart G." said:

> > > @KGilma said:

> > > Do any average joes like me (103 SS) game an X in their driver, and stiff in their fairways? I have a smooth tempo, but I have to slow my swing down with the driver or I end up with a giant slice. So, I end up hitting my 3w off most tees, because it basically goes the same distance as my driver. So, I am leaving some distance at the tee box. Now, I know the slice is just part of my swing mechanics, I'm taking some lessons to correct it, but I've wondered if I went up to an X flex shaft so I can really go after it with my driver what is going to happen?

> >

> > Unfortunately that's not an easy one for us to answer for you. When you "go at it" with the stiff shaft and feel you have to slow down, is it only a function of the slice results? **Or is it that you think you feel the shaft loading too much and that might be causing some type of stalling of the release - which results in leaving the face open? ** It's more common for someone with a more aggressive transition instead of smooth - but it can happen to anyone. Also, it's not always a conscious thing so sometimes the only way to find out the answer is to go try some stiffer shafts and see what happens to the ball flight. If you get less of that slice action or don't feel you have to slow things down as much with the stiffer shaft, then yes, it would be a good idea to go to that stiffer shaft. If you don't see any difference, then there is no reason to go up.

>

> The slice is only there when I really try to go at it. When I consciously focus on slowing my speed and maintaining an even tempo, the ball flight is straight, or slight fade. Which leads me to believe the shaft is loading too much leaving the club face open when I go at it. I am thinking about ordering a few demo's in S and X from the shaft shack, to test my theory.

 

I'm not so sure 103 is an "average joe" but you may certainly be able to go to "X". As Zigster said, flex from company to company isn't standard. And a stiffer shaft may give you more control and MAy actually give you more distance as well. Always experiment. I got the absolute best results from the new Epic Flash SZ with a 76 gram shaft in 6.5 (X) and my puny little SS is around 95. Hit it as a lark since I'd never consider getting that combo (& didn't as it turns out)

 

When I finally got the club I got the same shaft but couldn't convince myself to get the same shaft so I got the same model (Hzrdus Yellow if it matters) but in the 62(?) gram weight and 6.0 (S).

 

But think outside the box if you can test with different shafts. With your smooth tempo, "S" could certainly (still) work just fine.

 

As for the slice (push ?) when you go after it, I've had the same issue. I personally always felt that when I try to really go after it my lower body moves much faster than my arms and the arms and club can't catch up so the face is open to path by the time the club head reaches the ball.

 

Good luck.

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9.0 Ventus Blue 6S

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

Titleist Pro V1X

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMO....

Especially if you struggle with a slice. A heavier shaft will give the club less head weight. Meaning it will feel more uniformly weighted.... as we know a slice is an outside in swing with and open face... if the head doesn't feel so prominent it MAY be EASIER to keep your swing on plane.... if you’re like me... and sounds like you are... when you ‘go after it’ your abandoning your swing mechanics. Most likely not turning and instead sliding and trying to swing with your arms and wrists. I play a 73g XStiff hazardous black in an M5, played it in my M3 and in my M2... I have a SS of about 105-109. I play a shaft that I like I feel comfortable with, and I also never try and ‘go after it’ play an X of you want, your SS doesn’t matter as much as the torque you generate in order to load the shaft. But try it worst case, you don’t like it and go back to S or R flex in a light weight.

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> @tigers2iron said:

> IMO....

> Especially if you struggle with a slice. A heavier shaft will give the club less head weight. Meaning it will feel more uniformly weighted.... as we know a slice is an outside in swing with and open face... if the head doesn't feel so prominent it MAY be EASIER to keep your swing on plane.... if you’re like me... and sounds like you are... when you ‘go after it’ your abandoning your swing mechanics. Most likely not turning and instead sliding and trying to swing with your arms and wrists. I play a 73g XStiff hazardous black in an M5, played it in my M3 and in my M2... I have a SS of about 105-109. I play a shaft that I like I feel comfortable with, and I also never try and ‘go after it’ play an X of you want, your SS doesn’t matter as much as the torque you generate in order to load the shaft. But try it worst case, you don’t like it and go back to S or R flex in a light weight.

 

I actually went ahead and bought the new F9 with smoke 60g S, bought a couple of heavier weights for the head, and bye bye slice! Set it a 9* std and it's just a high fade now.

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> @tigers2iron said:

> IMO....

> Especially if you struggle with a slice. A heavier shaft will give the club less head weight. Meaning it will feel more uniformly weighted.... as we know a slice is an outside in swing with and open face... if the head doesn't feel so prominent it MAY be EASIER to keep your swing on plane....

 

One has to be very careful with adding weight to someone with slice tendencies. Yes it is possible that it might effect the swing plane but another possible side effect of going heavier is an increase in grip pressure - which can make it even harder to release properly and close the face.

 

However, it's easy and cheap to test a heavier shaft weight. You don't need to get a new shaft, just use some lead tape around the shaft below the grip. 5 gm or 10 gm increments would be a good starting point.

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I had a problem similar to this where I would feel the shaft loading so much that it through off my timing because I had to hold back. Turns out, that diamond blue, is not for someone with an aggressive transition as I have. After experimenting, via shaft shack, as you were thinking, I ended up with a rogue 125 tour stiff, and now I can go balls out and maintain control. So moral of this story is, sometimes, not always the case, but sometimes, your swing and your shaft are mismatched.

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> @Stuart_G said:

> > @awolmartinez said:

> > but sometimes, your swing and your shaft are mismatched.

>

> Technically, the mismatch isn't with your swing - but with your head ;-)

> (your particular expectations for how much you think you should feel the shaft load - or not).

>

>

>

 

Haha, first off, I'm a total amateur, and have no expectations lol, I play purely by feel and the ensuing results. However, I definitely feel a tangible mismatch. I wouldn't alter my swing to fit a shaft profile or club for that matter, I would alter the club. That is why club fitting exists. The difference for me at least, between my worst drives ever and my best ever, was merely a change to a more stout, and harder to load shaft, literally a game changer for my driving.

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> @awolmartinez said:

> > @Stuart_G said:

> > > @awolmartinez said:

> > > but sometimes, your swing and your shaft are mismatched.

> >

> > Technically, the mismatch isn't with your swing - but with your head ;-)

> > (your particular expectations for how much you think you should feel the shaft load - or not).

> >

> >

> >

>

> Haha, first off, I'm a total amateur, and have no expectations lol, I play purely by feel and the ensuing results. However, I definitely feel a tangible mismatch. I wouldn't alter my swing to fit a shaft profile or club for that matter, I would alter the club. That is why club fitting exists. The difference for me at least, between my worst drives ever and my best ever, was merely a change to a more stout, and harder to load shaft, literally a game changer for my driving.

 

Oh the difference is real and can be very important - I wasn't implying otherwise. Just pointing out a distinction as to the actual cause of the problems.

 

The creation of those expectations has nothing to do with being a pro or an amateur, it's something anyone may develop as they learn the swing - and it's not a conscious development either. It's built through lots of repetitions with a particular shaft that has a particular feel and (in many cases) depending on those feels to help control the swing. So yes, the best swing can come from the shaft with the best feel.

 

The question that may help understand the distinction is - why do you think you'd need to alter your swing just because the feel from the shaft changes? There really isn't anything in the mechanics or physics of how the shaft works in the swing that requiring any particular amount of stiffness for any given swing. So there really is no actual need to alter the swing just because the feel changes. If we could be like robots and had no concept of feel, we could have a nice repetitive and consistent swing and results regardless of the shaft stiffness, then flex and stiffness wouldn't be nearly as important in the fitting process. But we aren't' - so feel certainly can be a very important part of fitting for some.

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> @Stuart_G said:

> > @awolmartinez said:

> > > @Stuart_G said:

> > > > @awolmartinez said:

> > > > but sometimes, your swing and your shaft are mismatched.

> > >

> > > Technically, the mismatch isn't with your swing - but with your head ;-)

> > > (your particular expectations for how much you think you should feel the shaft load - or not).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Haha, first off, I'm a total amateur, and have no expectations lol, I play purely by feel and the ensuing results. However, I definitely feel a tangible mismatch. I wouldn't alter my swing to fit a shaft profile or club for that matter, I would alter the club. That is why club fitting exists. The difference for me at least, between my worst drives ever and my best ever, was merely a change to a more stout, and harder to load shaft, literally a game changer for my driving.

>

> Oh the difference is real and can be very important - I wasn't implying otherwise. Just pointing out a distinction as to the actual cause of the problems.

>

> The creation of those expectations has nothing to do with being a pro or an amateur, it's something anyone may develop as they learn the swing - and it's not a conscious development either. It's built through lots of repetitions with a particular shaft that has a particular feel and (in many cases) depending on those feels to help control the swing. So yes, the best swing can come from the shaft with the best feel.

>

> The question that may help understand the distinction is - why do you think you'd need to alter your swing just because the feel from the shaft changes? There really isn't anything in the mechanics or physics of how the shaft works in the swing that requiring any particular amount of stiffness for any given swing. So there really is no actual need to alter the swing just because the feel changes. If we could be like robots and had no concept of feel, we could have a nice repetitive and consistent swing and results regardless of the shaft stiffness, then flex and stiffness wouldn't be nearly as important in the fitting process. But we aren't' - so feel certainly can be a very important part of fitting for some.

 

Yes sir! I see what you were saying, my bad. You know what though, it's hard to describe, and it's the only time I've EVER felt this with any club or shaft, but the diamana blueboard, bf version to be exact, in a jetspeed driver head, immediately after my transition into the downswing, within milliseconds, felt like it was whipping. it actually amazes me that our minds can interpret data that quickly, but I think I was pulling down so hard, quick, whatever, that it would actually kick, less than halfway into my downswing??? So I would instinctively let off the gas. And it was a stiff flex, I'm a 103-105 ss, so I imagine the profile just isn't for me... Tbh I don't know exactly what the cause is, but I absolutely hated the feeling.

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> @awolmartinez said:

> but I think I was pulling down so hard, quick, whatever, that it would actually kick, less than halfway into my downswing??? So I would instinctively let off the gas. And it was a stiff flex, I'm a 103-105 ss, so I imagine the profile just isn't for me... Tbh I don't know exactly what the cause is, but I absolutely hated the feeling.

 

Actually, stalling or 'letting off the gas' will cause it to unload a lot earlier than if you had kept up the acceleration. But that's really besides the point. You're not alone by any means. I also (along with many others) don't like the feel of too much loading and prefer shafts that are stiffer than my swing specs might normally suggest. But there are plenty of others who like the feel of the shaft giving and thinks it helps them from getting too aggressive in transition. Like using an orange whip as a tempo trainer.

 

 

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> @Stuart_G said:

> > @awolmartinez said:

> > but I think I was pulling down so hard, quick, whatever, that it would actually kick, less than halfway into my downswing??? So I would instinctively let off the gas. And it was a stiff flex, I'm a 103-105 ss, so I imagine the profile just isn't for me... Tbh I don't know exactly what the cause is, but I absolutely hated the feeling.

>

> Actually, stalling or 'letting off the gas' will cause it to unload a lot earlier than if you had kept up the acceleration. But that's really besides the point. You're not alone by any means. I also (along with many others) don't like the feel of too much loading and prefer shafts that are stiffer than my swing specs might normally suggest. But there are plenty of others who like the feel of the shaft giving and thinks it helps them from getting too aggressive in transition. ** Like using an orange whip as a tempo trainer.

> **

>

It's funny you said Orange whip, I almost bought one yesterday lol.

 

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> @KGilma said:

> > @Stuart_G said:

> > > @awolmartinez said:

> > > but I think I was pulling down so hard, quick, whatever, that it would actually kick, less than halfway into my downswing??? So I would instinctively let off the gas. And it was a stiff flex, I'm a 103-105 ss, so I imagine the profile just isn't for me... Tbh I don't know exactly what the cause is, but I absolutely hated the feeling.

> >

> > Actually, stalling or 'letting off the gas' will cause it to unload a lot earlier than if you had kept up the acceleration. But that's really besides the point. You're not alone by any means. I also (along with many others) don't like the feel of too much loading and prefer shafts that are stiffer than my swing specs might normally suggest. But there are plenty of others who like the feel of the shaft giving and thinks it helps them from getting too aggressive in transition. ** Like using an orange whip as a tempo trainer.

> > **

> >

> It's funny you said Orange whip, I almost bought one yesterday lol.

>

I have a very aggressive transition - almost non-existent some times. I have a tempo trainer that helped me tremendously. it's not an orange whip, but it's the same idea.

I, like you, had a problem with letting off the gas. I would try to hit the ball, rather than swing through the ball. the whip trainer helped me with both. now I just worry about path and sequence.

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