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2019 Rules - YELLOW Penalty Areas


nsxguy

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> @Sawgrass said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > @Sawgrass said:

> > > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > >

> > > > My primary concern is that if a player's driver's face is accidentally (or even deliberately) cracked by someone else than the player himself (or his caddie) the player may not change that club. However, it is very likely that one or more next strokes with that club will render it useless and only then it is damaged according to this new Exception. Unfortunately for the player that club was damaged in the normal course of play and may not be replaced.

> > > >

> > > > To me this makes zero sense.

> > >

> > > I think you think it makes zero sense because you're not understanding the rule.

> > >

> > > A player MAY chose to replace a club that has been damaged by an outside influence according to the following Exception within 4.1b(3). Nothing in the new Local Rule G-9 relfects on that right, not even the description of what damage means (because the damage description is limited to "For the purposes of this Local Rule" which only addresses damage done by the player or caddie. Read the exception again:

> > >

> > > Exception - Replacing Damaged Club When Player Did Not Cause Damage: If a player’s club is damaged during the round (including while play is stopped under Rule 5.7a) (see Rule 4.1a(2)) by an outside influence or natural forces or by any person other than the player or his or her caddie:

> > >

> > > The player may replace the damaged club with any club under Rule 4.1b(4).

> > >

> > > But when the player does so, the player must immediately take the damaged club out of play, using the procedure in Rule 4.1c(1).

> > >

> >

> > Ok, now I got it! Thanks!

> >

> > But it still strikes me as odd why the meaning of 'damaged' should be different depending on who creates the damage. If I now understand this correctly a club may not be replaced under G-9 if the club face is only cracked but the player must wait until the face breaks into peaces, meaning he will definitively eventually hit a bad or terribly bad stroke with that cracked face. Still sounds peculiar to me.

> I have no explanation for your remaining issue, I am similarly confused by it. It’s so specific, I suspect there must be a reason we don’t see.

>

 

Here's my attempted explanation. The brief version: RBs have liberalised through a local rule the circumstances when a club can be replaced due to damage, but created a new sub-category of damage for this new extension.

 

The not so brief version: 2019 heralded a massive change in this rule. Significant complexity was removed by drawing a new line on damaged clubs (damage occurring during a round), removing accidental versus intentional/abuse type distinctions. The new rule said if you or your caddie did the damage then no replacement but if it was an outside influence or natural forces then it could be replaced.

 

Three months on and sentiment has changed. A new LR is permitted (tours will all do it instantly I bet) - that significantly reverses that key 2019 change and adds a new "replacement permitted" category: ****If a player’s club is “broken or significantly damaged” during the round by the player or caddie, except in cases of abuse**** But note this new replacement hurdle (effectively for accidental/unintended damage by the player or caddie) is intentionally higher than that permitted more broadly under the R4.1b(3) Exception. And it names a specific category of damage - a clubface or clubhead is only cracked - which does not meet the new player/caddie caused replacement hurdle.

 

Comment: This takes a massive leap back towards the complexity of the pre-2019 rule. Some new issues: so a cracked face/clubhead is out, what else? A grip is loose - does that mean any part of the grip even if trivial? And when an adjustable club has something become loose, can that club now be replaced? (I would have thought not.)

 

All new untidiness I thought we had gotten away from. And for me the worst part is it gives tour players free licence to break clubs during play by going for a big distance knowing that the tree will mangle the club and the rules allow them a new club instantly. I much prefer the you break it you live with it (for the rest of the round) discipline that the rest of us operate under.

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> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> - RB's added complexity but why?

> - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

New information can (maybe should) mean new decisions. The previous decisions were made with the best information available at the time.

 

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> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> - RB's added complexity but why?

> - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

 

Just speculating here: greater simplicity has given way to greater fairness; under the rule a player COULD (won't always be that way) be out a club for the rest of the round in circumstances where something they could not control damaged their club (but no outside influence or natural force was involved).

 

PS I think it is illogical to do this via Local Rule when the tours are going to adopt it immediately. Do it in the rule. IMO, makes no sense to ask 100,000 Committees to consider it separately. If it is good for the goose.....

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> @antip said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> > - RB's added complexity but why?

> > - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> > - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

>

> Just speculating here: greater simplicity has given way to greater fairness; under the rule a player COULD (won't always be that way) be out a club for the rest of the round in circumstances where something they could not control damaged their club (but no outside influence or natural force was involved).

 

I am afraid I do not understand what you say. What could be circumstances out of player's control but no outside influence or natural force involved? And how does any of that reflect to the fact that a driver face cracked is NOT suitable for proper play but this G-9 says it is?

 

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> @rogolf said:

> > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> > - RB's added complexity but why?

> > - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> > - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

> New information can (maybe should) mean new decisions. The previous decisions were made with the best information available at the time.

>

 

No kidding?

 

What would be that new information that just happened to evolve in a couple of months? The kind that renders a driver head with a cracked face not being damaged enough to let it be replaced (the club, that is)?

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> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @rogolf said:

> > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> > > - RB's added complexity but why?

> > > - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> > > - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

> > New information can (maybe should) mean new decisions. The previous decisions were made with the best information available at the time.

> >

>

> No kidding?

>

> What would be that new information that just happened to evolve in a couple of months? The kind that renders a driver head with a cracked face not being damaged enough to let it be replaced (the club, that is)?

My suggestion would be to ask the ruling bodies. Nobody here, that I know of, is connected to them or would reveal that they were. If you're just trying to "stir the pot", you could ask here! :)

 

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> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @antip said:

> > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> > > - RB's added complexity but why?

> > > - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> > > - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

> >

> > Just speculating here: greater simplicity has given way to greater fairness; under the rule a player COULD (won't always be that way) be out a club for the rest of the round in circumstances where something they could not control damaged their club (but no outside influence or natural force was involved).

>

> I am afraid I do not understand what you say. What could be circumstances out of player's control but no outside influence or natural force involved? And how does any of that reflect to the fact that a driver face cracked is NOT suitable for proper play but this G-9 says it is?

>

 

> @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > @antip said:

> > > @"Mr. Bean" said:

> > > Antip, a good speech altogether and I agree with it but no explanation to the question 'why'.

> > > - RB's added complexity but why?

> > > - Tour players are given more latitude but why?

> > > - The ship was turned in a couple of months after 7 years' careful preparations but why?

> >

> > Just speculating here: greater simplicity has given way to greater fairness; under the rule a player COULD (won't always be that way) be out a club for the rest of the round in circumstances where something they could not control damaged their club (but no outside influence or natural force was involved).

>

> I am afraid I do not understand what you say. What could be circumstances out of player's control but no outside influence or natural force involved? And how does any of that reflect to the fact that a driver face cracked is NOT suitable for proper play but this G-9 says it is?

>

 

1. My "explanation" of a possible reason to introduce this new LR has nothing to do with, or say anything about, a cracked face specifically. But it does respond to your "why" questions above.

2. I was, though, pointing out a broader rationale for introducing this LR by use of an example but it seems I may not have spelled it out enough for you to get on my wavelength. Any accidental damage you commit, that was not explicitly caused by an outside influence or natural force, and you could not replace the club for the duration of the round. For example, you play a shot from the fairway and it turns out there is a tree root below your ball and unseen. You break your club. From January, 4.1b(3) says you cannot replace the club. Now, with G-9 in place, you can replace the club. So it may be considered a fairer world with G-9 in place as it provides much greater protection to the player for accidental damage.

 

If you want more explanation, your only option is probably to approach RBs. But I do note that the vast majority of changes we are currently embedding are not explicitly explained - and unless an insider writes that book that may remain unchanged in many cases.

 

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