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Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?


golfer929

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I think I heard on the coverage today that one of the annoucers mention that Sam Snead (I think) said that he would give the average golfer every green in regulation but let him put the ball on the green where he wanted to put it and they wouldn't break 90. But what did Sam know?

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Depends on the scratch. The women didn't seem to have any problem on the greens last week and they'd never seen them before. A real scratch with some past tournament experience who plays regularly at courses with good greens and a lot of slope wouldn't be freaked out. There are certainly scratch players who could do it.

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A true scratch should be able to average 110% of the course rating his best 10 out of 20 rounds. Everybody is talking like a scratch shoots 72 every day no matter where he is. Course rating of AN being 77 10 years ago with a slope of probably 150. A USGA scratch his first time, no caddie, no practice has 0 chance of breaking 85.

Murv

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> @cdnglf said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > Where is the "beating a dead horse" imoji when you need one?

> >

> >

> > The answer is still NO!

>

> Your opinion is still no. The numbers still say yes.

>

 

Who’s numbers? An estimated slope rating based on speculation outside the ropes without so much as seeing the greens first hand? Those who have been to Augusta National Golf Club during the Masters can attest to the undulation of the greens. Under the original criteria, a scratch playing Sunday Masters tournament tees and conditions for the first time without a caddy and only 1 hour to warm up is asking an awful lot. Especially when some landing areas on certain pins are measured in feet. I seriously doubt it.

 

 

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> @Murv said:

> A true scratch should be able to average 110% of the course rating his best 10 out of 20 rounds. Everybody is talking like a scratch shoots 72 every day no matter where he is. Course rating of AN being 77 10 years ago with a slope of probably 150. A USGA scratch his first time, no caddie, no practice has 0 chance of breaking 85.

>

Thank you

100% correct. Without high level college golf or amateur experience. There is no way an 85 happens. My father was a head pro at a tough highly rated course, and guests would show up all the time talking about how well they would play only to be completely humbled.

 

 

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> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > Where is the "beating a dead horse" imoji when you need one?

> > >

> > >

> > > The answer is still NO!

> >

> > Your opinion is still no. The numbers still say yes.

> >

>

> Who’s numbers? An estimated slope rating based on speculation outside the ropes without so much as seeing the greens first hand? Those who have been to Augusta National Golf Club during the Masters can attest to the undulation of the greens. Under the original criteria, a scratch playing Sunday Masters tournament tees and conditions for the first time without a caddy and only 1 hour to warm up is asking an awful lot. Especially when some landing areas on certain pins are measured in feet. I seriously doubt it.

>

 

The inventor of the handicap system and the inventor of strokes gained. Go back and review the posts from last year.

 

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> @cdnglf said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > > Where is the "beating a dead horse" imoji when you need one?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The answer is still NO!

> > >

> > > Your opinion is still no. The numbers still say yes.

> > >

> >

> > Who’s numbers? An estimated slope rating based on speculation outside the ropes without so much as seeing the greens first hand? Those who have been to Augusta National Golf Club during the Masters can attest to the undulation of the greens. Under the original criteria, a scratch playing Sunday Masters tournament tees and conditions for the first time without a caddy and only 1 hour to warm up is asking an awful lot. Especially when some landing areas on certain pins are measured in feet. I seriously doubt it.

> >

>

> The inventor of the handicap system and the inventor of strokes gained. Go back and review the posts from last year.

>

 

Why don’t you review my stance on that issue since it was brought up. Read lowheel ‘s comments as well. I know what I said then and I know what I said now. Of course I didn’t realize that you’re good enough to take 2nd in the 1960 Open Championship. I bow to you!

 

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My grandpa was a scratch golfer. He played Augusta a few times (he knew a member) and the lowest score he had was a 77. But that was from the old 6905 yard set-up. I'm not sure what tees he played from.

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Kevin O'Connell an amateur in this years Masters shot 77-71 with 8 birdies and an eagle in two rounds. He missed the cut. He was our club champion two years ago. His last handicap on GHIN is +3.0. I believe a scratch who has tournaments rounds posted in the last 12 months would break 85 often at ANGC.

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I'm sure all scratch golfers would be willing to participate in a test. Just set up a time.

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> @Emcdade said:

> Yes. **** the amateurs played right around par or under for the entire week.

>

> I shot an 80 at Rich Harvest Farms from 7,000 yards (course rating 76) with greens firm as **** and rolling 13 on stimp, and I stink (probably 5 handicap or worse).

 

These weren’t scratch amateurs. The amateurs who qualify for major championships are tournament tested players all with + handicaps, generally +3 or better. These amateurs would simply dust a mere scratch amateur on any course.

 

You ever been to The Masters? If so how can you rate Rich Harvest Farms to Augusta National Golf Club? While Rich Harvest Farms is a very nice course, it’s relatively flat compared to ANGC. If you haven’t been to The Masters let me know what you think when you see the course during tournament conditions. I’m not putting RHFGC down but trying to keep comparisons in perspective.

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> @farmer said:

> We're being awfully tough on our scratch player. Give him a normal round, not Sunday at the Master's, and even from the tips, a genuine scratch should be better than 85.

 

 

That’s moving the goal posts. Read the criteria that started this preposterous thread. Some people are so willing to change the criteria.

 

 

> @golfer929 said:

>Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees.

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> @grm24 said:

> Just for you @dvdt

> https://www.golfdigest.com/story/masters-2019-eddie-pepperell-shared-some-fun-details-from-his-duel-with-famed-masters-marker-jeff-knox

 

That's a very poor reference. First of all, Jeff Knox is a member of Augusta National and knows the greens very, very well. Even Tiger Woods has acknowledged about Knox's vast knowledge. Second, Knox I believe is a + handicap. Third, he doesn't fit the initial criteria.

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> @RobotDoctor said:

> > @farmer said:

> > We're being awfully tough on our scratch player. Give him a normal round, not Sunday at the Master's, and even from the tips, a genuine scratch should be better than 85.

>

>

> That’s moving the goal posts. Read the criteria that started this preposterous thread. Some people are so willing to change the criteria.

>

>

> > @golfer929 said:

> >Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees.

 

I understand that I moved the goalposts, but no one, not a competitor, not a member, would ever play under those stipulations. The question is made meaningless by the requirements.

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> @smashdn said:

> Was going to mention Knox myself. Not sure of his handicap, it can be looked up by I ain't got the want to (its about lunch time here). I also didn't read the OP since we are pushing 45 pages.

>

> What is more likely, a scratch breaking 85 or a +4 shooting 63? I would think the former.

 

Knox is a very good player. Probably somewhere in the +1 to +3 range most months.

 

He recently played a senior amateur event here in Southern California, I think. Let me look up some results...

 

Edit: Was not in SoCal. Was the Jones Cup Senior. He finished T2 with a buddy of mine. Knox has also won the Crump Cup before. He is a top am in his age bracket. He's probably a +1 to +3 pretty much all year -- and he has tons of tournament experience.

 

 

 

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Knox is currently a +0.7.

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> @farmer said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @farmer said:

> > > We're being awfully tough on our scratch player. Give him a normal round, not Sunday at the Master's, and even from the tips, a genuine scratch should be better than 85.

> >

> >

> > That’s moving the goal posts. Read the criteria that started this preposterous thread. Some people are so willing to change the criteria.

> >

> >

> > > @golfer929 said:

> > >Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees.

>

> I understand that I moved the goalposts, but no one, not a competitor, not a member, would ever play under those stipulations. The question is made meaningless by the requirements.

 

That's been my point, along with several other people, since the beginning of this ridiculous thread. :)

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With all of my experience watching it on TV, I'm fairly confident I could get round in 75 or less.

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No practice walk and no caddy? Not happening.

 

The greens would eat him alive.

 

The Women playing the am had a practice round and used local caddies. Major difference

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Having played AN twice, once away from tourney conditions as a +1 high schooler and a second time as a +3.2 D1 college player at close to tourney conditions at under 7k both times, I can tell you that your scratch has no chance of breaking 80 at AN the first time he plays it and without a caddie.

Second time, with a caddie, he has probably a 50% chance that goes up or down depending upon the type of scratch player he is.

 

Remember all scratch players are not equal. A guy used to playing really tight courses with OB close by(loses strokes off the tee) that is a good putter and iron player that is scratch, has a better chance than a guy that is a horrible putter, but great tee to green, and loses shots on or around the green. Not only are the greens fast and firm for most Masters, the complexes and drop offs around the greens are just nasty in some places.

 

The second guys wipes the first guy off the planet at Torrey Pines and the opposite at AN.

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I’ve posted this before. I was a country club scratch at a course i knew like the back of my hand when i got to play. My butt stayed puckered the entire time as my head was on a swivel at the trees and the hills and the grass (and i worked every masters in high school, so I’d been there plenty.) It was an awesome day. I was so giddy that each of my 87 shots was fun and every shot was terrifying knowing what can happen. Walking across the bridge to 12 green is as religious an experience as any golfer can get west of St. Andrews and I’m lucky to pics with my Dad on both bridges.

 

If you’re playing in US am’s and qualifying for Opens, sure, you can post a good round. If you’re a country club kid with an appreciation and reverence for where you are (and you’re accustomed to slowish bermuda) then enjoy your day, enjoy the walk & enjoy all the 85+ shots you’re fixing to card..... i did

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A true tourney scratch, easy peasy. Big city and regional and national events type of player. I know many guys personally that could do that. With a month of practice I think I could handle it myself

A zero playing at a 6,000 to 6,400 yard home course rated 120 has no chance

As a 2 cap, I broke 80 at Muirfield Village from tips with two water balls = double. I'd never seen the place. Similar track with lots of water and insane greens

To be fair, I play a very hard home course with very nutso greens (7000, 74 144) and used to be a scratch university golfer. Funny story, Gary Player said our greens are too severe, and he's always positive

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> @cardoustie said:

> A true tourney scratch, easy peasy. Big city and regional and national events type of player. I know many guys personally that could do that. With a month of practice I think I could handle it myself

> A zero playing at a 6,000 to 6,400 yard home course rated 120 has no chance

> As a 2 cap, I broke 80 at Muirfield Village from tips with two water balls = double. I'd never seen the place. Similar track with lots of water and insane greens

> To be fair, I play a very hard home course with very nutso greens (7000, 74 144) and used to be a scratch university golfer. Funny story, Gary Player said our greens are too severe, and he's always positive

 

No practice before hand. Just a one hour warm up.

 

This thread is pure speculation because it's never going to happen.

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      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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