THE FADE

[cardoustie]

Has the fade become the preferred / prized / reliable shot again? I'd say after Nicklaus and Trevino the golf world went to the draw

Now we have Tiger, DJ, Brooks, Rhambo, etc etc hitting it long .... with a power fade that moves a little L to R. Bubba as well - from the wrong side

Am I off on a tangent here????

 

[DavePelz4]

Interesting observation UC. Probably the only drawer of the ball among the power group is Rory.

[iteachgolf]

Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

[cardoustie]

Dan

Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?

Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

[cardoustie]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

My observation is the fade used to be accepted as a control shot and didn't go as far, but now it does. Lots of that shape with LD guys as well

[iteachgolf]

> @cardoustie said:

> Dan

> Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?

> Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

 

I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

[gentles]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > Dan

> > Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?

> > Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

>

> I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

 

I love this advice. IMO for non-pro golfers, not being able to move the ball both ways is a loooong way down the list of things holding them back. If you like to hit a fade, just hit that 100% of the time rather than trying to fit a shot to the hole. Dogleg left? Fade it over the corner or just hit something short of the dogleg and move on. Back left pin? Aim for the middle and go to the next hole. Worst thing that can happen is a double cross which is much more common when trying to go against your natural shape.

[cardoustie]

I agree with Gentles, golf can be played very well when your miss is always in one direction

[MelloYello]

The old Trevino line about being able to talk to a fade always made sense to me.

 

For whatever reason, a fade always seemed to carry the same type of trajectory with the variation being how much curve I was putting on it that particular day. With the draw drive (which I always felt was harder) the misses always contained a certain degree of trajectory variation, thus you'd start seeing the occasional low hook.

 

Maybe it's as simple as that? Draws turn into low hooks while fades turn into high cuts with the former not being playable? Still, it's common for most players to leak it right with longer clubs. I think the advent of 45" drivers has limited a lot of players confidence in turning it over.

 

I've also wondered how much newer driver tech has affected this. I think I recall hearing Phil Mickelson express the same thought, namely, that a golfer in modern times can readily call upon a low-spin fade and thus the shot isn't necessarily giving anything up these days.

 

Still, I don't think any of that applies to irons where most reasonably good players tend to hit a tight little draw and work the ball as needed.

[Krt22]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > Dan

> > Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?

> > Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

>

> I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

 

Anything to be said on a teed up ball more likely to fade due to AofA/Swing direction such that one might hit a small cut with the driver and draw everything hit off the ground?

[Buzzkill]

Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

[iteachgolf]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > > @cardoustie said:

> > > Dan

> > > Are you a proponent of a top player being able to move his 3w and 1w in opposite directions. ie the driver is the fade stick and the 3-dub is for draws?

> > > Kind of like carrying two sand wedges with diff levels of bounce ....

> >

> > I done prescribe carrying wedges with different levels of bounce and I prefer player to be relatively one dimensional. They only move it against their stock shot when it’s absolutely necessary. They all can move it both ways, you just almost never NEED to.

>

> Anything to be said on a teed up ball more likely to fade due to AofA/Swing direction such that one might hit a small cut with the driver and draw everything hit off the ground?

 

Very common. Bubba is an example

[cardoustie]

iteach

answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

[iteachgolf]

> @cardoustie said:

> iteach

> answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

 

Spin loft.

[Mike_C]

> @cardoustie said:

> I agree with Gentles, golf can be played very well when your miss is always in one direction

 

Golf is a lot EASIER if your miss is always in one direction.

[cardoustie]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > iteach

> > answer me this sir. Why can I readily hit a 40 yard hook on recovery shots with irons but not 40 yard fades. I've heard the pro's say the same

>

> Spin loft.

 

Meaning you are delofting to hit a hook (I do with a dead shut face) and a fade you are adding loft? Makes sense

[BiggErn]

Guys don’t curve the ball as much as tv lets on. At least not on purpose unless it’s some sort of recovery shot for the most part. All I heard back in the day was how Freddie hit a fade and so did Duval then when I saw them in person everything was almost a draw albeit slight. Most guys hit essentially a straight ball that drops a hair one way or the other.

[cardoustie]

> @BiggErn said:

> Guys don’t curve the ball as much as tv lets on. At least not on purpose unless it’s some sort of recovery shot for the most part. All I heard back in the day was how Freddie hit a fade and so did Duval then when I saw them in person everything was almost a draw albeit slight. Most guys hit essentially a straight ball that drops a hair one way or the other.

 

That is my experience as well. From both watching top level tour players and also playing with them

I call 15 yards a draw .. they call it 3 ...

 

 

 

[Hawkeye77]

> @Buzzkill said:

> Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

 

Ditto - insert draw, lol!

[Buzzkill]

> @"Tremendous Slouch" said:

> > @Buzzkill said:

> > Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

>

> Hitting the ball higher may help.

 

Ok!

 

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Buzzkill said:

> > Would love to be able to hit a fade BUT it's not in my DNA. I've tried to teach myself numerous times over 40 years with no success. It's not a simple swing path, grip or club face thing for me.

>

> Ditto - insert draw, lol!

 

Lol!

 

[Obee]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Draw vs fade is pretty evenly split on tour. It’s more about what each individual does better

 

Dan, I seem to see plenty of top players who prefer to move their longer clubs a bit L to R and their shorter clubs they are comfortable either putting a baby cut on it, but mostly a little draw from 9i to full LW. Am I wrong there?

[iteachgolf]

Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

[cardoustie]

Funny

I like knockdown fades with short irons and draw the driver

[Obee]

> @iteachgolf said:

> Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

 

Why don't we see this as more of an "instructed" thing? It's always been intuitive to me, but I don't really see it being "taught" per se. Not a knock on anyone really. More just an observation.

 

Sight lines and set-up are so different from a draw to a fade that it's a big "jump" if you are trying to draw your driver your whole life and then an instructor says: "yeah, let's go with a fade" and teaches the student something new. I see lots of decent players can make the switch on the range, but then under the gun, the "new" shot deserts them and they abandon it.

[iteachgolf]

> @Obee said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > Lots of guys draw short irons and fade driver.

>

> Why don't we see this as more of an "instructed" thing? It's always been intuitive to me, but I don't really see it being "taught" per se. Not a knock on anyone really. More just an observation.

>

> Sight lines and set-up are so different from a draw to a fade that it's a big "jump" if you are trying to draw your driver your whole life and then an instructor says: "yeah, let's go with a fade" and teaches the student something new. I see lots of decent players can make the switch on the range, but then under the gun, the "new" shot deserts them and they abandon it.

 

I’d say the majority of my players play that pattern. Been talked about on here for years

[nsxguy]

> @MelloYello said:

> The old Trevino line about being able to talk to a fade always made sense to me.

>

> For whatever reason, a fade always seemed to carry the same type of trajectory with the variation being how much curve I was putting on it that particular day. With the draw drive (which I always felt was harder) the misses always contained a certain degree of trajectory variation, thus you'd start seeing the occasional low hook.

>

> Maybe it's as simple as that? Draws turn into low hooks while fades turn into high cuts with the former not being playable? Still, it's common for most players to leak it right with longer clubs. I think the advent of 45" drivers has limited a lot of players confidence in turning it over.

>

> I've also wondered how much newer driver tech has affected this. I think I recall hearing Phil Mickelson express the same thought, namely, that a golfer in modern times can readily call upon a low-spin fade and thus the shot isn't necessarily giving anything up these days.

>

> Still, I don't think any of that applies to irons where most reasonably good players tend to hit a tight little draw and work the ball as needed.

 

Isn't it funny how some things stick in our minds ? Trevino's line was ""You can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen.". Unfortunately he wasn't talking about direct opposites. The opposite of a fade is a draw, not a hook.

 

The thing that has always stuck in my mind and has been extremely hard to "overcome" is "Nobody ever hit the ball in their backswing".

 

But yep, I think it is that simple. The left-to-right shot (for righties of course) generally flies higher and lands softer and therefore, once you hit to your target not too much can go wrong from there. The right-to-lefter generally flies lower and runs out more so,,,,,,,,,,

 

[smashdn]

What do they say, "You can talk to a fade but a hook will never listen?"

My take - With the trackman/launch monitor optimization going on guys can get the most distance by hitting it higher. In persimmon era a high shot meant a ballooning shot with too much spin. A low draw runs. A high draw is tough to accomplish IME.

[QuigleyDU]

I'd almost give up right'y to never see the ball go left again... I am sure there is something a little less personal I can sacrifice though.

 

I know my swing problem. I just cant seem to change it.

[Krt22]

I've starting hitting cuts with the driver and playing around with things at the range and can hit these 1-2yard fall off fades. In general they seem much more predictable. It really grinds my gears to have a short iron in hand, setup for a small draw, and then hit a boomerang hook

[Kevinnz]

Fade spin jst somehow roll less than its counterpart, makes it easier to hold on the fast greens. It requires a bit more body rotation through the impact zone with less arm and hard motion, so slightly more consistent.