Jump to content
2024 Houston Open WITB Photos ×

New SE Valley Private Sink? or Swim?


vallygolf

Recommended Posts

I have mentioned before my disappointment with my overcrowded "private" home course at Seville. I knew what it was when I joined (although during the recession it was not so crowded). It is a slightly above average course with above average conditioning, but to get a tee time for a foursome, a week out, any day of the week before 1pm has not been possible. That brings me to my question: Lets assume you could build a course fast and firm of the quality of Desert Forest in the SE valley. Limit membership to 250 golf only members. Would the course sink or swim? What would initiation and dues have to be to make that feasible?

 

I would pay more than I do now (I think it is 8K initiation now, and I pay over $700/month in dues) for Seville if it were private. The mythical course above I would pay 100K and 1500/month to join if it were within 15 mins of my house.

 

**I posted a similar thread but with the new board, I cant seem to find where it ended up..... sorry for the duplicate

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 12
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think, if it were in the right location in the SE Valley it could work but, remember, that's basically what Southern Dunes was and it failed (admittedly, the male only thing didn't help). It would likely need to be a little less costly than that though. The monthly dues at DF are closer to $1100 which is about the norm in NS. It would probably need to be $50K/$850 to work in that area and I'm just not sure that is possible these days because the course would struggle to make ends meet for that price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yah, I was unsure on the sweet spot for golf only break even. Southern Dunes is still too far away to command my money for a private gig, and Maricopa just doesnt have the money to sustain private. Encanterra and Seville are bursting at the seams (both pretty good golf). Demographics here in Gilbert are families (ie...anything outside of 20 mins away is a no go). I think there is a market if you have a special course (southern dunes esque). Seville probably has 450 golf members paying near $800/month. Many of my friends go to Mesa, Superstition Mountain, to find a private atmosphere, but like me would be willing to pony up for a good SE valley option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's a hike for sure. Not sure how feasible the concept you described is, at one time Superstition itself was in receivership and just 1 or 2 moves away from being some sort of public or resort facility at best or closed at worst. Royal Dunes bit the dust as a private club and the market as a whole here is geared towards tourism play with the exception of established privates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @vallygolf said:

> I think you articulated my question better than I did. Why cant the SE valley with only two bursting at the seams "private" clubs, and jammed public options that are well below average in quality draw a premier private option?

1) The economy - as good as it is, people still remember the recession. It's not like golf is a booming business, even after the recession. A new golf course, public or private, requires millions in investment. Not many, if any, investors see golf courses as a great investment these days.

2) The golf economy - how many new private (or public, for that matter) courses are being built in the valley (I think it's zero)? Verrado Victory is the last one I know of.

3) Concentration of wealthy residents and/or snowbirds. A lot of high end privates get their members from very wealthy folks who may have multiple memberships all over the country. Not sure the east Valley gets a lot of those, as they seem to gravitate to (north) Scottsdale. Go ahead, hit me up Fore.

TM Sim Max 10.5 Ventus Red Senior
TM Sim Max 3 Ventus Red Senior 
Cobra F9 17* Rescue Atmos Regular
TM Sim Max 19*, 25*, 28* Rescue Ventus Blue Senior 
Cobra F9 7-SW Atmos Regular
Vokey SM6 62* T Kuro Kage stiff
TM Spider Tour Day
OUUL stand bag
Titleist Velocity or Callaway Softfeel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @DrSchteeve said:

> > @vallygolf said:

> > I think you articulated my question better than I did. Why cant the SE valley with only two bursting at the seams "private" clubs, and jammed public options that are well below average in quality draw a premier private option?

> 1) The economy - as good as it is, people still remember the recession. It's not like golf is a booming business, even after the recession. A new golf course, public or private, requires millions in investment. Not many, if any, investors see golf courses as a great investment these days.

> 2) The golf economy - how many new private (or public, for that matter) courses are being built in the valley (I think it's zero)? Verrado Victory is the last one I know of.

> 3) Concentration of wealthy residents and/or snowbirds. A lot of high end privates get their members from very wealthy folks who may have multiple memberships all over the country. Not sure the east Valley gets a lot of those, as they seem to gravitate to (north) Scottsdale. Go ahead, hit me up Fore.

 

They have added an additional 9 holes out at Copper Canyon.

 

A new Community, Prasada by Toll Brothers is being laid out and construction has already began out in Surprise. Included in the deveolpment is an 18 hole Niklaus designed course.

 

http://www.epsgroupinc.com/2018/10/08/prasada-construction-begins-with-unprecedented-mass-grading/

 

Seems like the West Valley with the affordability of land is capable growing new courses.

 

Has nothing to do with OP's original post but at least we're seeing some golf growth in the valley!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the problem is that a new private club isn't going to be a massive draw these days unless you have something crazy unique. The rate of building for courses is not very high and they ones that are tend to be dramatic such as Sand Valley/Mammoth Dunes in WI or the new course at Bandon to take over the sheep ranch. Unfortunately, unless they hire an extremely well known designer or make it the first Tiger Woods course in the western US....I don't see much happening.

 

The west valley has cheaper land but it's also retiree central and isn't going to draw a lot of people in the metro phoenix area or attract a higher rate lower round club. Most people want something cheap and unfortunately that means a lot of rounds.

Driver: Sim2 with Ventus Blue 6x
FWY: Sim 2 Ti w/ TenseiAV Raw Blue 75x
Hybrid: PXG 0317x 17* with Fuji Pro 2.0 85x
Irons: PXG 0211ST w/KBS Tour X
54*: Titleist SM6 S grind black finish
58*: New Level Golf SPN Forged M Grind
Putter: Toulon San Diego

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @sub150 said:

> I played golf with a pair of guys from Toll Brothers working on the new course in Surprise. Just absurdly expensive.

>

> I wonder how much it would cost to build a more reserved course like Talking Stick North. Less land, less earth moving, and quicker rounds.

 

That's Prasada (mentioned above). One of the things that most people don't think about now is the crazy clubhouses that people want. Personally, give me the clubhouse at DF over the rest of the places I belong. I'll go to the gym somewhere else, I want a small bar and restaurant and a minimalist locker room. That doesn't seem to be what most people want and it needs to be a golfers course for golfers to pull that off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

> @az2au said:

> > @sub150 said:

> > I played golf with a pair of guys from Toll Brothers working on the new course in Surprise. Just absurdly expensive.

> >

> > I wonder how much it would cost to build a more reserved course like Talking Stick North. Less land, less earth moving, and quicker rounds.

>

> That's Prasada (mentioned above). One of the things that most people don't think about now is the crazy clubhouses that people want. Personally, give me the clubhouse at DF over the rest of the places I belong. I'll go to the gym somewhere else, I want a small bar and restaurant and a minimalist locker room. That doesn't seem to be what most people want and it needs to be a golfers course for golfers to pull that off.

 

Right. They said clubhouse was about 35% of the cost when in reality you could do it easily for 5-10% if you were keeping it basic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Discussion and links to Photos
      Please put any questions or Comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Monday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #1
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #2
      2024 Texas Children's Houston Open - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Thorbjorn Olesen - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ben Silverman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jesse Droemer - SoTX PGA Section POY - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      David Lipsky - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Martin Trainer - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Zac Blair - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jacob Bridgeman - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Trace Crowe - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Jimmy Walker - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Daniel Berger - WITB(very mini) - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Chesson Hadley - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Callum McNeill - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Rhein Gibson - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Patrick Fishburn - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Peter Malnati - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Raul Pereda - WITB - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Gary Woodland WITB (New driver, iron shafts) – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Padraig Harrington WITB – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Tom Hoge's custom Cameron - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 9 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

×
×
  • Create New...