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My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper


Andus

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> @Nard_S said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > Regarding feel?

> > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

>

 

Well, I don't know about "willed ignorance" but I'll stick with my "feel" (of a dead solid strike of course) as being a combination of sound & touch, the sound part being what sounds right to ME and the touch part actually being a lack of feeling anything; as in not feeling any harsh vibration, or any vibration of the shaft at all, and not feeling any twisting of the club head.

 

Almost like "What ? Something got in the way of my club head ? Who knew ?"

Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9.0 Ventus Blue 6S

Ping G425 14.5 Fairway Tour AD TP 6X

Ping G425 MAX 20.5 7 wood Diamana Blue 70 S

Titleist 716 AP-1  5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, DGS300

Taylormade MG3 52*, 56*, TW 60* DGS200

LAB Mezz Max 34*, RED, BGT Stability

Titleist Pro V1X

 

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> @Nard_S said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > Regarding feel?

> > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

>

 

Ok, you sold me! Seriously, I agree that they all have their own unique feel.

USGA Index: ~0

[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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> @dpb5031 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > Regarding feel?

> > > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> > Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

> >

>

> Ok, you sold me! Seriously, I agree that they all have their own unique feel.

 

Mind that it's not all that Earth shattering different Just flavor. Sound and feel are the exact same thing just a different medium to to perceive it. Mizuno never comes across as Miura in part because the resonant frequency (all things have one) is differing due to shape and density of material. I was a musician. Types of wood in drums makes a huge difference, again different resonant frequency For golf clubs? Not so much but it's there.

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Amazing how 3 years ago this would have been shut down 10 times over but I guess with the "improvements" anything generating hits is ok.....I never understood why these threads were shut down, but I think I really get now, this is just as naseum what I believe as my truth is right and must be your truth and anything different is inconceivable because of science/feel/turf interaction/handicap/stats etc.

 

For most of my life I had a set of both, it was mp14s and dci 962s. I loved both, I just knew which ones to grab based on they day and how I felt and was playing and really if nothing else one set was in time out and the other was the hot hand until not in which case I would readily go to the bullpen . I am still struggling to this day to find a set of each I can marry like that again, but I will.

 

What are the facts to me in my years of research on the matter?

 

- Mental game > equipment. If you have confidence in something, it is more likely to perform for you.

 

- Scoring is irrelevant, but I am positive that as a lifelong lower 80s high 70s golfer I have a fair amount more rounds in 70s with a blade iron. I also have more rounds with them in general. I also shot my lowest round of 71 with a CB. I also sold that set as shortly after I had 2 horrific rounds of bad irons. I regretted that, but back to point 1, the answer is always Indian, and his perception. I don't overthink any of this when I have 2 real gamer sets, I just like the idea of 2 bad rounds in a row means you take the other set out the next time, and that may be that positive spark to stop the slide. Driver has far more effect on my scores than probably if I had to putt with the leading edge blade of my wedge, let alone whatever of my 2 comfortable iron sets I have that day......

-

-I think there is something to distance control and blades. I think it is easier to feel out 3/4 swing type things and I really feel like dispersion distance wise is more consistent for a worse golfer like me who isn't hitting balls constantly. I also think this is my experience and while many feel similar it isn't something I think of as more than a flimsy personal observation that clearly is a non issue for better players.

 

-Everyone talks about these misses and good players miss small and no on hits the sweet spot and that is just so foreign to me. I mean I get it at a pro level, but I am more likely to miss fat and thin than outside the area that makes the ball go x yards. I can misgit the ball on the sweet spot all day long and shoot 85, done it plenty in my life. Doesn't really matter what design head I use to pure a double cross now does it? Or not get around and push one and leave it out, or tug one left....in fact my most score punishing iron misses I would bet flew right off the sweet spot, or of course are heavy or thin. So that in mind, and I have done the research, iron head design is out the window.

 

-long irons are no joke. Honestly I have never felt comfortable to hit a green until inside 190. blade or CB, standing over a 4 iron from 215 sucks at my skill set. I am a late adaptor but finally found a hybrid I like a lot, and for all this blade/CB talk, I think that there is more to gain in being more open minded to a 5-pw set. I still carry a 4, but my current CB set is 5-pw and last season my 4 iron was predominantly for advancing crap drives under trees. So I end on this, for the CB guys, there is little reason to carry a 3,4,5 iron with today's tech in hybrids correct? No one carries a 3 anymore, why draw the line there? Mis hits fly better and further, moi is no contest, they elevate so much easier and better. I am being serious? Substitute CB for hybrid and blade for 4 and 5 iron in this thread and it mostly holds water.

 

That's all I got. No one on the internet can tell me anything to contradict 25 years of playing golf, and I don't care to or intend to sway anyone. I just figured I would post for the random new golfer. The real answer to the debate about iron heads is truly really boring.

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> @BMC said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > @dpb5031

> > In places where we have circumstantial evidence we have to accept a narrative. I don't believe your narrative that it's all marketing. There are logical wrinkles there which I pointed out. It's not the interest of OEMs to do it the hard way if casting would be just as good. At the end of the day, clubs aren't sold based on the fact they have "1025" carbon steel. Very few people know that. A person will simply say "X feels better than Y." I have no reason to believe cast blade irons would somehow be impossible to sell because people are obsessed with the details of forging. I don't buy that. Advertising does not control as you're describing. It's a cop out argument IMHO.

> >

> > Also, you keep saying "most of the mass behind the sweet spot" when obviously that isn't true. A blade doesn't clump the mass behind the sweet spot at all. The muscle extends rather uniformly from heel to toe, not to mention the thickness of the club varies from the sole to the top-line going from thicker at the bottom to thinner at the top with a slight drop-off near the middle where the top of the muscle ends.

> >

> > So I don't quite see why you're so obsessed with this notion that placing mass close to the CG results in better feel. What exactly is your reasoning for saying that? If you're saying there is wide-spread anecdotal evidence based on what people say, well, you can't criticize that line of reasoning in the case of forged vs cast, can you?

> >

> > Again, we're not metallurgists so to speak as though all forgings are the same or all castings are the same is probably not safe. I just know that when two companies make clubs which are really close to being the same in geometry (i.e. Mizuno blades versus Titleist blades) and yet people seem to prefer the form in feel, there might be something to the material argument.

> >

> > I prefer not to have uneducated debates. I'm fine leaving it there. A certain percentage of cast clubs may rival the feel or forged. I just don't have the answer to whether that's true, let alone exactly why.

> These are my 1990 VIPs. They're cast and have a substantial muscle behind the sweet spot. I've owned many true blades, and the cast blades feel as good as any of the forged ones I've played.

> 641ol9c2wnfd.jpg

>

 

Ha, I remember the VIP blades! Your experience illustrates my point. Mass inline with the sweetspot is the primary contributor to that coveted MB blade solidness on a pure strike, not whether the club was manufactured by forging or casting.

USGA Index: ~0

[b]WITB[/b]:
Ping G410 LST 9 degree - Tour AD IZ 6x
Ping G410 LST - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Kasco K2K 33 - Fujikura Pro TourSpec 73 
Callaway RazrX Tour 4h - Tour 95 shaft
Ping i200 5-UW (2 flat) - Nippon Modus 105X
Taylormade HiToe 54 (bent to 55 & 2 flat)
Taylormade HiToe 64 (Bent to 62 & 2 flat)
Palmer AP30R putter (circa 1960s)
Taylormade TP5X Ball

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I always felt my Eye 2's were pretty good feeling. There's perks in MB forging feel wise but it's never been high on the list of why I play them. The pure shot where you don't feel a thing is also a shot where you pured the shaft. Easier done with R300 than X100 for sure. Jack said he might have pured 5-6 shots a round so this notion that 'unless you pure them all stay away from blades' is highly off base.

 

Get your swing speed optimized and swing path stable, cluster your impact. You don't need blades for any of it,. You like them or want them, fine. It's not the worst gear malpractice. For every guy with the wrong iron head there's 100 with the wrong shaft. and a thousand with a systemic swing faults that will condemn them to dufferdom. Stats are if you started golf in adulthood, you have a 1 in 1000 chance of being low index (sub 5). Best that most get to is 7-10, then give up because swing faults hold them back. Been quite lucky to play with a slew of scratch players in past couple years. The gear is all over the spectrum in tech and age. It's not the common denominator of their goodness.

 

I have an $800 driver, thing is hi-tech through and through, love it but have struggled with it, seriously was going to drop another bucket of bucks and make a change. Blaming shaft etc etc. Took buckets of balls but the thing is staying because like BM mentioned, it's the Indian not the arrow.

 

If you're truly interested in what tech does and does not do, Google "Nick Faldo, Mizuno iron review." Best 20 minutes you can spend to get a primer and hard data on this stuff. You get spin, launch, distance and dispersion on most all types of clubs. Plus you get Nick's wry commentary which cuts through some of the jargon.

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> @nsxguy said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > Regarding feel?

> > > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> > Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

> >

>

> Well, I don't know about "willed ignorance" but I'll stick with my "feel" (of a dead solid strike of course) as being a combination of sound & touch, the sound part being what sounds right to ME and the touch part actually being a lack of feeling anything; as in not feeling any harsh vibration, or any vibration of the shaft at all, and not feeling any twisting of the club head.

>

> Almost like "What ? Something got in the way of my club head ? Who knew ?"

 

if someone is unable to find the sweet spot consistently on a blade, i doubt they can do it on a GI club either. There is no magic formula in a game improvement iron that helps you to hit a "dead solid strike". Your motor skills do not change from one club to another... you can either hit it in the middle or you can't. The GI clubs are designed in such a way that allows any player to feel like they nutted it even if they really didn't or couldn't LOL, OMG, LMAO.

Titleist TSR2 10 deg with Ventus TR Blue 6

Titleist TSR2+ 14.5 deg 3 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Titleist TSR2  18 deg 5 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Wilson Staff CB 4-PW with DG mid 115 

Wedges ?? 

Scotty Cameron Champions choice Newport 2+ @ 34 inches

Pro V1 

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> @cliffhanger said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > Regarding feel?

> > > > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> > > Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

> > >

> >

> > Well, I don't know about "willed ignorance" but I'll stick with my "feel" (of a dead solid strike of course) as being a combination of sound & touch, the sound part being what sounds right to ME and the touch part actually being a lack of feeling anything; as in not feeling any harsh vibration, or any vibration of the shaft at all, and not feeling any twisting of the club head.

> >

> > Almost like "What ? Something got in the way of my club head ? Who knew ?"

>

> if someone is unable to find the sweet spot consistently on a blade, i doubt they can do it on a GI club either. There is no magic formula in a game improvement iron that helps you to hit a "dead solid strike". Your motor skills do not change from one club to another... you can either hit it in the middle or you can't. The GI clubs are designed in such a way that allows any player to feel like they nutted it even if they really didn't or couldn't LOL, OMG, LMAO.

 

Lol. And there’s another blatant lie. You can tell whether you hit any club solid or not.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > Regarding feel?

> > > > > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > > > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> > > > Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

> > > >

> > >

> > > Well, I don't know about "willed ignorance" but I'll stick with my "feel" (of a dead solid strike of course) as being a combination of sound & touch, the sound part being what sounds right to ME and the touch part actually being a lack of feeling anything; as in not feeling any harsh vibration, or any vibration of the shaft at all, and not feeling any twisting of the club head.

> > >

> > > Almost like "What ? Something got in the way of my club head ? Who knew ?"

> >

> > if someone is unable to find the sweet spot consistently on a blade, i doubt they can do it on a GI club either. There is no magic formula in a game improvement iron that helps you to hit a "dead solid strike". Your motor skills do not change from one club to another... you can either hit it in the middle or you can't. The GI clubs are designed in such a way that allows any player to feel like they nutted it even if they really didn't or couldn't LOL, OMG, LMAO.

>

> Lol. And there’s another blatant lie. You can tell whether you hit any club solid or not.

 

you can certainly keep telling yourself that... however it will never make it right unfortunately.

Titleist TSR2 10 deg with Ventus TR Blue 6

Titleist TSR2+ 14.5 deg 3 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Titleist TSR2  18 deg 5 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Wilson Staff CB 4-PW with DG mid 115 

Wedges ?? 

Scotty Cameron Champions choice Newport 2+ @ 34 inches

Pro V1 

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> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > @dpb5031 said:

> > > > > > > @Nard_S said:

> > > > > > > Regarding feel?

> > > > > > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > > > > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> > > > > Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Well, I don't know about "willed ignorance" but I'll stick with my "feel" (of a dead solid strike of course) as being a combination of sound & touch, the sound part being what sounds right to ME and the touch part actually being a lack of feeling anything; as in not feeling any harsh vibration, or any vibration of the shaft at all, and not feeling any twisting of the club head.

> > > >

> > > > Almost like "What ? Something got in the way of my club head ? Who knew ?"

> > >

> > > if someone is unable to find the sweet spot consistently on a blade, i doubt they can do it on a GI club either. There is no magic formula in a game improvement iron that helps you to hit a "dead solid strike". Your motor skills do not change from one club to another... you can either hit it in the middle or you can't. The GI clubs are designed in such a way that allows any player to feel like they nutted it even if they really didn't or couldn't LOL, OMG, LMAO.

> >

> > Lol. And there’s another blatant lie. You can tell whether you hit any club solid or not.

>

> you can certainly keep telling yourself that... however it will never make it right unfortunately.

 

I will as I don’t live in a dream world. It is 100% correct.

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> > you can certainly keep telling yourself that... however it will never make it right unfortunately.

>

> I will as I don’t live in a dream world. It is 100% correct.

 

Yeah, he's right. "Nutted" is a lack of vibration. You could tell with a snow shovel. CB/MB has nothing to say about that. Now, its possible you just don't know what it feels like in which case you couldn't tell on either. But the idea you can tell on a MB but not on a CB is ridiculous unless you put on mitten right before you swing the CB. Either you can tell or you can't.

 

The thread is pretty ridiculous, especially the "are we talking about this again" crowd. Yep, we are. Because, believe it or not, people put down and take up the game of golf all the time and sometimes they try to figure out what irons to buy on internet forums. For the vast majority of weak players that shouldn't be MPs.

 

G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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> @pinestreetgolf said:

> > > you can certainly keep telling yourself that... however it will never make it right unfortunately.

> >

> > I will as I don’t live in a dream world. It is 100% correct.

>

> Yeah, he's right. "Nutted" is a lack of vibration. You could tell with a snow shovel. CB/MB has nothing to say about that. Now, its possible you just don't know what it feels like in which case you couldn't tell on either. But the idea you can tell on a MB but not on a CB is ridiculous unless you put on mitten right before you swing the CB. Either you can tell or you can't.

>

> The thread is pretty ridiculous, especially the "are we talking about this again" crowd. Yep, we are. Because, believe it or not, people put down and take up the game of golf all the time and sometimes they try to figure out what irons to buy on internet forums. For the vast majority of weak players **that shouldn't be MPs.**

> hey why just pick on Mizuno? shouldn't you include all manufacturers who make these hard to hit clubs? lol

the point of my post was not to say that you can't feel a nutted shot, it was to ask that if you can't hit the middle of the face on a blade, then how does your motor skills change to allow you to do it on a GI, or any other club for that matter. Then the design of the GI would make it hard to distinguish the difference for many golfers between an off center hit where the CB did its job or an actual nutted shot.

 

Again... this is in no way related to scoring or handicap or anything... just can you hit the middle of the club and if so why not on any club? Or if you can't on one club, how can you do it on another?

 

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Titleist TSR2 10 deg with Ventus TR Blue 6

Titleist TSR2+ 14.5 deg 3 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Titleist TSR2  18 deg 5 wood with Ventus TR Blue 7

Wilson Staff CB 4-PW with DG mid 115 

Wedges ?? 

Scotty Cameron Champions choice Newport 2+ @ 34 inches

Pro V1 

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Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

 

fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

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AI Smoke Max Tensei Blue 55R | Cleveland Halo XL HyWood 3+ Tensei Blue 55R

G430 4-5H Alta R | Srixon ZX4-5 7i-AW Dart 65R

Glide4 Eye2 56 | Vokey 60 M | Ping Anser 2023

 

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> @Nard_S said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @Nard_S said:

> > > Regarding feel?

> > > Forged CB's pale to traditional MB. If I'm going CB I'll stick with cast. Someone once commented that forged CB is the worst of both. I agree.

> > > Saying you cannot tell the difference between cast or forged Endo or Mizuno or Miura or Hoffman is like saying all coffee tastes the same.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Agree wholeheartedly with you 1st paragraph... maybe not so much with your 2nd...lol! ?

> Honestly do not put much stock in feel, but to say a Ping feels like a Mizuno, feels like a Miura, feels like an Endo is willed ignorance. Forging houses have their flavor and OEM brands seek an identifying feel in their gear. You ho enough clubs it's plain as day. :)

>

The forging houses have a specific resonant frequency of sound they want the club to make. That's the difference in feel that we get from different brands. When the Mizuno rep was being interviewed by TXG he was able to call out the exact frequency that Luke Donald prefers. Mizuno makes their clubs to sound that way, and that's why nothing else feels like a Mizuno (because nothing else vibrates at exactly the same frequency).

 

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> @nostatic said:

> Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

>

> fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

 

i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

 

Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

 

Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

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The sweetspot is no larger on GI clubs than MB blades, but the "effective hitting area" is larger. Generally, you'll get more acceptable/favorable results in terms of launch, ball speed, and direction across a larger area of the club face with a perimeter weighted CB than with a n MB blade.

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> @cliffhanger said:

> > @nostatic said:

> > Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

> >

> > fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

>

> i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

>

> Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

>

> Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

 

What is a better player to you? There are some guys who essentially never miss the middle of the face. Some use MBs and some use CBs. There aren’t many “better” players playing MBs that miss the middle very often.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @nostatic said:

> > > Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

> > >

> > > fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

> >

> > i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

> >

> > Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

> >

> > Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

>

> What is a better player to you? There are some guys who essentially never miss the middle of the face. Some use MBs and some use CBs. There aren’t many “better” players playing MBs that miss the middle very often.

 

The definition of a better player is irrelevant to my post... my point of you took the time to read it was regarding the difference in strikes from one club to another... if a guy swears he usually nuts a CB, then why couldn’t usually do the same with an MB? And vice versa of course. Every club has a center... and if you can hit one, you should be able to hit the other with the same consistency.

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> @dpb5031 said:

> The sweetspot is no larger on GI clubs than MB blades, but the "effective hitting area" is larger. Generally, you'll get more acceptable/favorable results in terms of launch, ball speed, and direction across a larger area of the club face with a perimeter weighted CB than with a n MB blade.

 

Yes and a bigger effective hittin area makes it more difficult to decipher between an almost center strike and an actual center strike. That’s why weight is pulled away from the center to the perimeter. I just laugh that guys who play CB’s swear they flush them all the time and yet can’t really hit blades well... if that’s the case, your not really nutting those CB’s either, the club by design is somewhat hiding your mistakes. Unless someone can prove its harder to hit the center of one club over another when all things are equal besides the head design.

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> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @nostatic said:

> > > > Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

> > > >

> > > > fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

> > >

> > > i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

> > >

> > > Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

> > >

> > > Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

> >

> > What is a better player to you? There are some guys who essentially never miss the middle of the face. Some use MBs and some use CBs. There aren’t many “better” players playing MBs that miss the middle very often.

>

> The definition of a better player is irrelevant to my post... my point of you took the time to read it was regarding the difference in strikes from one club to another... if a guy swears he usually nuts a CB, then why couldn’t usually do the same with an MB? And vice versa of course. Every club has a center... and if you can hit one, you should be able to hit the other with the same consistency.

 

Lol nice deflection. I already said the rest though. A person that hits the ball solid pretty much every time can play whatever they want.

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> @BiggErn said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > @nostatic said:

> > > > > Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

> > > > >

> > > > > fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

> > > >

> > > > i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

> > > >

> > > > Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

> > > >

> > > > Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

> > >

> > > What is a better player to you? There are some guys who essentially never miss the middle of the face. Some use MBs and some use CBs. There aren’t many “better” players playing MBs that miss the middle very often.

> >

> > The definition of a better player is irrelevant to my post... my point of you took the time to read it was regarding the difference in strikes from one club to another... if a guy swears he usually nuts a CB, then why couldn’t usually do the same with an MB? And vice versa of course. Every club has a center... and if you can hit one, you should be able to hit the other with the same consistency.

>

> Lol nice deflection. I already said the rest though. A person that hits the ball solid pretty much every time can play whatever they want.

 

No deflection here, however you should look in the mirror. That person who you desribe as hitting the ball solid pretty much every time, do they notice the difference between solid and perfect?

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> @cliffhanger said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > > @nostatic said:

> > > > > > Anyone can hit the middle of the club. The question is how many times out of 100 swings will they do it. Good players will do it more than bad players. **_Then it becomes a question of how big the "middle" is for a particular club_**, and what happens when the strike isn't in the middle. The idea that a small sweet spot will be better for training a player probably depends on the player. Eye-hand coordination, physical capabilities, time to practice, etc will all go into the equation. If we did a controlled (as best you can) study of a thousand golfers of varying ability, I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who benefited more from blades. I'm willing to bet that there would be some number who did not benefit more (or as much) from blades. Just a question of the magnitude of those two numbers...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > fwiw I certainly can tell the difference between a good and a poor strike on any club I hit, including the putter. I will always have some variance. The question then becomes do I have enough time, guidance, and talent to minimize that variance to get a high percentage of "good" contacts with a blade (that result in good outcomes), or do I instead pick equipment that helps get good results with less "good" swings? That calculation will be different for everyone. In addition ego is in play (along with other psychological issues), so if that isn't considered, you're missing another part of the equation.

> > > > >

> > > > > i get it that better players hit the middle more, however what changes from one club to the next that allows it to happen more or less for any golfer of any ability.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also i don't understand how the "middle" of the club changes in size based on any particular club... i really don't think it does unless the CB guys use a different tool to measure the center of the face that allows it to be larger? If you are referring to the sweet spot being larger in some clubs, yes that will be larger or smaller based on the club and that was my point... some designs allow a player to hit it close to the sweet spot and it feels good however it wasn't necessarily "nutted" or "pured" or hit in the center of the face.

> > > > >

> > > > > Does a larger club face allow a golfer to hit the absolute middle of the club easier? Knowing that the center (not sweet spot) is 100% comparable on every club must be taken into account while answering that.

> > > >

> > > > What is a better player to you? There are some guys who essentially never miss the middle of the face. Some use MBs and some use CBs. There aren’t many “better” players playing MBs that miss the middle very often.

> > >

> > > The definition of a better player is irrelevant to my post... my point of you took the time to read it was regarding the difference in strikes from one club to another... if a guy swears he usually nuts a CB, then why couldn’t usually do the same with an MB? And vice versa of course. Every club has a center... and if you can hit one, you should be able to hit the other with the same consistency.

> >

> > Lol nice deflection. I already said the rest though. A person that hits the ball solid pretty much every time can play whatever they want.

>

> No deflection here, however you should look in the mirror. That person who you desribe as hitting the ball solid pretty much every time, do they notice the difference between solid and perfect?

 

Lol. Solid, perfect, pure, nutted, on the screws,.....whatever. If you’re resorting to word games and deflecting from what you believe a better player is just proves you can’t make a rational argument. Just like all the rest that claim “forgiveness is a myth”, “MBs just work for my swing”, yada yada yada.

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> @pinestreetgolf said:

> Edit to not continue this conversation.

 

i had a chance to read your post pre edit... i just have this issue with how this debate all plays out. In one way it is totally justified for a single digit cap to play their CB's and nut them and at the same time they say they struggle with the MB's. In another way it is apparently impossible for any mid cap to hit anything solid let alone an MB and no explanation is an acceptable justification.

 

Whatever everyone's own justification is to play what they play, an individuals motor skills will ultimately determine their success and the percentage of good to bad shots with that specific club. Granted the club is fit for their abilities. It is quite possible for a good golfer who really understands the game to struggle with their motor skills... then again a new golfer to the game can possess very good motor skills and thus not struggle with striking a ball in a solid fashion and yet not score well. We have to accept that there is both.

 

I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player. They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him.

 

If we are talking averages thats fine... however there is nothing average about the individuality of each and every golfers swing. If a person has good motor skills in relation to the golf swing it really doesn't matter what they play... again solid contact doesn't always relate to good scoring (not talking ball striking here). There are a lot of scenarios where no club will either correct or save the golfer from a bad result even with a solid strike. The main problem with averages is that with an estimated 21 million mid cap golfers in the world, it is very likely that not everyone falls into the average profile that is being discussed here.

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Congratulations on winning the iron debate.

 

Why can no one wrap their head around the fact that cbs don’t make bad shots good and blades don’t make small misses terrible and that whatever minimal differences between 2 confirming irons has no effect on an actual score which is mostly determined by swings, decision making, luck of when and how missed happen, and your mind.

 

Yes, a single digit pures cbs and can’t use blades because they are too smart and savvy to hurt their score with something they can’t hit because their small misses will be so effected......and mid cappers using blades suck horribly and are posing when shooting 82 with them and if they switched to a cb would probably be shooting 75 the next round. That is exactly how it works on wrx....

 

I have used a set of each my whole life, I feel naked without an option of both I am comfortable with. There is ZERO effect in scoring, striking, or anything other than your mental state when you go in the garage and get amped about choosing X that day because you believe that is where the best round is at and you start the day feeling good.

 

Anyone who uses 2 different drivers or putters feels the same. It isn’t like if you use a blade putter and a mallet you are shooting worse scores when not using a mallet because you are losing moi and blah blah...where is that argument? Putting is infinitely More important to scoring, why would anyone not use the most moi space station looking putters so their misses have perfect distance control where it counts? On a green Where real strokes are at stake?

 

Right....irons are afflicted by marketing, stigma, and the wrx special of feeling better than someone by letting them know how bad they are in passive ways, and of course somehow preference in irons only makes you a poser.....definitely not people spending money on circle T putters and hardcovers, or getting “tour issue” anything...No poser there, only if you happen to like traditional irons...OK.

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> @BMC said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > @dpb5031

> > In places where we have circumstantial evidence we have to accept a narrative. I don't believe your narrative that it's all marketing. There are logical wrinkles there which I pointed out. It's not the interest of OEMs to do it the hard way if casting would be just as good. At the end of the day, clubs aren't sold based on the fact they have "1025" carbon steel. Very few people know that. A person will simply say "X feels better than Y." I have no reason to believe cast blade irons would somehow be impossible to sell because people are obsessed with the details of forging. I don't buy that. Advertising does not control as you're describing. It's a cop out argument IMHO.

> >

> > Also, you keep saying "most of the mass behind the sweet spot" when obviously that isn't true. A blade doesn't clump the mass behind the sweet spot at all. The muscle extends rather uniformly from heel to toe, not to mention the thickness of the club varies from the sole to the top-line going from thicker at the bottom to thinner at the top with a slight drop-off near the middle where the top of the muscle ends.

> >

> > So I don't quite see why you're so obsessed with this notion that placing mass close to the CG results in better feel. What exactly is your reasoning for saying that? If you're saying there is wide-spread anecdotal evidence based on what people say, well, you can't criticize that line of reasoning in the case of forged vs cast, can you?

> >

> > Again, we're not metallurgists so to speak as though all forgings are the same or all castings are the same is probably not safe. I just know that when two companies make clubs which are really close to being the same in geometry (i.e. Mizuno blades versus Titleist blades) and yet people seem to prefer the form in feel, there might be something to the material argument.

> >

> > I prefer not to have uneducated debates. I'm fine leaving it there. A certain percentage of cast clubs may rival the feel or forged. I just don't have the answer to whether that's true, let alone exactly why.

> These are my 1990 VIPs. They're cast and have a substantial muscle behind the sweet spot. I've owned many true blades, and the cast blades feel as good as any of the forged ones I've played.

> 641ol9c2wnfd.jpg

>

 

You are mistaken. From the Macgregor Golf History - Catalogs those 1990s are defintely forged.

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> @tannyhoban said:

> > @BMC said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > @dpb5031

> > > In places where we have circumstantial evidence we have to accept a narrative. I don't believe your narrative that it's all marketing. There are logical wrinkles there which I pointed out. It's not the interest of OEMs to do it the hard way if casting would be just as good. At the end of the day, clubs aren't sold based on the fact they have "1025" carbon steel. Very few people know that. A person will simply say "X feels better than Y." I have no reason to believe cast blade irons would somehow be impossible to sell because people are obsessed with the details of forging. I don't buy that. Advertising does not control as you're describing. It's a cop out argument IMHO.

> > >

> > > Also, you keep saying "most of the mass behind the sweet spot" when obviously that isn't true. A blade doesn't clump the mass behind the sweet spot at all. The muscle extends rather uniformly from heel to toe, not to mention the thickness of the club varies from the sole to the top-line going from thicker at the bottom to thinner at the top with a slight drop-off near the middle where the top of the muscle ends.

> > >

> > > So I don't quite see why you're so obsessed with this notion that placing mass close to the CG results in better feel. What exactly is your reasoning for saying that? If you're saying there is wide-spread anecdotal evidence based on what people say, well, you can't criticize that line of reasoning in the case of forged vs cast, can you?

> > >

> > > Again, we're not metallurgists so to speak as though all forgings are the same or all castings are the same is probably not safe. I just know that when two companies make clubs which are really close to being the same in geometry (i.e. Mizuno blades versus Titleist blades) and yet people seem to prefer the form in feel, there might be something to the material argument.

> > >

> > > I prefer not to have uneducated debates. I'm fine leaving it there. A certain percentage of cast clubs may rival the feel or forged. I just don't have the answer to whether that's true, let alone exactly why.

> > These are my 1990 VIPs. They're cast and have a substantial muscle behind the sweet spot. I've owned many true blades, and the cast blades feel as good as any of the forged ones I've played.

> > 641ol9c2wnfd.jpg

> >

>

> You are mistaken. From the Macgregor Golf History - Catalogs those 1990s are defintely forged.

You may be right, I didn't get them new. But, according to "Ironfinder"...1990-1993

Satin finish. Investment cast stainless steel head. Muscleback design. Diamond pattern on face.

 

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> @cliffhanger said:

>** I just can't buy into the fact that an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player.** They both have a center point (not talking sweetspot here) and if the center can be struck with ease on one... then why not the other? There is no doubt that there is a drop-off in distance with an MB on off center hits however it isn't an automatic or standard number, its player specific and in certain cases, there is virtually no difference in the drop-off from an MB mishit or a CB mishit. Unless of course the MB is not fit for the golfer then i imagine the drop-off most certainly would be more with the MB. I also stand with my comment that **if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**.

>

> If we are talking averages thats fine...

 

Disclaimer - I didn't see pinestreet's post.

 

You have a propensity for "moving the goalposts" so I'll just ask you this.

 

When did the thread become about your "_**an MB is hard to hit and yet a CB can be flushed with ease by the same player**_" ? I think I missed that. Can you kindly point it out to me ?

 

I would have thought the thread was mainly about your "_**if a player mishits a blade iron then he most likely isn't striking his CB perfectly either, he just doesn't realize it because the club saves him**_"

 

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    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
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      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies
    • 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put and questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #1
      2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Monday #2
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Ben Taylor - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Garrick Higgo - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Billy Horschel - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Justin Lower - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Lanto Griffin - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bud Cauley - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Corbin Burnes (2021 NL Cy Young) - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Charley Hoffman - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Nico Echavarria - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Victor Perez - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ryo Hisatsune - WITB - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Jake Knapp's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      New Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Tyler Duncan's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Greyson Sigg's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Sunjae Im's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Ping's Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Vincent Whaley's custom Cameron - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Odyssey Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Super Stroke custom grips - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Cameron putters - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Zac Blair's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
      Bettinardi Waste Management putter covers - 2024 Waste Management Phoenix Open
       
       
       
       
       
       

       
      • 12 replies

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