Stem cell injections hand wrist arthritis

[juliette91]

Close to 6 weeks now post injections of stem cells harvested from my bone marrow and my fat tissue (good luck finding any, not!) + platelet rich plasma, all in one injection. Recap--severe arthritis in right hand and slightly less severe in left hand, could not hold on to the club during the takeaway and/or downswing as the pain was too great. No golf for about the past 3 months.

Had 5 injection sites in RH (all done through ultrasound), 3 in LH, 5 in right shoulder (torn labrum 2006 that makes any pushing away motion quite painful and not really doable. Cannot play the guitar, use a pencil/pen for any length of time, throw a ball, do a pushup or vacuuming against any resistance, paddle a kayak, row a boat, etc. and 3 injections in left shoulder.

 

Finally now at pre injection pain levels for both shoulders, left hand and very close for RH. Hoping now to see any improvement of any kind...will try to hit some golf balls today.

[juliette91]

Same pain, can make some swings but only by squeezing the crap out of the grip and bearing through the pain- still causes some re routing of the club

[juliette91]

From what I can tell as of now I might as well have injected myself with water. Sorely disappointed but not completely unexpected. I suppose there could be worse outcomes- could have gotten much worse

[juliette91]

Ending this discussion but don’t know how to officially close it

[ZipinZ]

Had my Stem Cell injections just over 1 year ago (April 18, 2018) in my lower back (L4/5 – L5/S1) followed up with Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) booster (6 shots same area) in August 2018. After 1 year of the initial treatment, I can truthfully say I’ve seen positive improvements, it’s not 100%, still have lower back troubles but not to the same extent, I would say it’s improved 65-70%, I no longer need to take Advil or Aleve to get through the day.

 

My doc suggested I continue with the PRP treatments every 6 to 8 months for at least the next year, I had my second PRP treatment (6 shots $600.00) on April 15, 2019, I’m laying low following the Doc’s recommendations, was in some minor discomfort, the Tramadol R/X helped along with a heating pad, hope to start stretching and being more active over the next week and then back to my exercises and get slowly back into golf. Was fortunate to spend the past 3 months in Phoenix & Palm Springs, so don’t feel the need to get back out just yet.

 

The following is the info I was provided for post injection recovery.

 

Hope things have improved a bit since your last post Juliette.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

 

 

** Post Treatment Guidelines **

 

EXPECT POST-INJECTION SORENESS. You may experience added stiffness, soreness, pain and discomfort in the area(s) you had treated for a few days or weeks following treatment. Although some patients report no increase in pain, you may experience some increase in pain, or “flare-up,” especially during the first 24 hours after treatment. Our therapies stimulate healing by causing local inflammation, so soreness is a normal response, please do not panic.

 

DO NOT USE ANTI-INFLAMMATORY OR CHOLESTEROL-LOWERING (STATINS) MEDICATIONS OR ICE ON THE INJECTION SITE(S) FOR AT LEAST FOUR WEEKS AFTER TREATMENT. Medicines such as aspirin*, ibuprofen, Naproxen, or Aleve (either oral or topical) including natural anti-inflammatories, like turmeric, and/or ice may inhibit the inflammatory process required to initiate the regeneration process and thus can limit the benefits of treatment. Statins (Crestor, Lipitor, Pravachol, and Zocor) should be avoided as they have been shown to be harmful to stem cells. Topical creams should also be avoided for 4 weeks after treatment. Corticosteroid injections should be avoided for 3 months after treatment. You may use heat for 15 minutes at a time along with gentle stretching to relieve discomfort. Using acetaminophen, narcotic pain medicines, or muscle relaxants may also relieve pain without interfering with the effect of the treatment. *Baby aspirin (81mg) for heart health is OK to use.

 

IT IS CRITICAL TO REST TO ALLOW YOUR TISSUE TO HEAL. We recommend that you rest for a minimum of three days after treatment, which means minimal weight-bearing activity (minimize activities such as standing, walking, stair climbing etc.), this includes operating motor vehicles. After this time, we would like you to ease yourself back into normal activity of daily living as tolerated. Avoid heavy exercise or impact sports for the first 4-6 weeks after treatment. Physical activities such as walking, cycling, swimming and gentle stretches such as yoga are encouraged as tolerated after two weeks. The rehabilitative stretches and exercises you received should be started gradually, after two weeks, or as soon thereafter as you are comfortably able. A common setback is that people will feel better soon after the treatment then overdo it by deciding to catch up on all the manual work they need to do, such as yard work or housework.

 

BONE MARROW ASPIRATION - Keep the site covered and dry for 24 hours. You may remove bandage after 24 hours.

 

BE PATIENT WITH THE HEALING PROCESS AND CURB UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS. Although some patients notice a reduction in pain within a few days after treatment, most start to notice pain relief between 3-6 months. Most often, maximal pain relief is not experienced until 6 months after treatment. Repeating the treatment (Stem cell or PRP injections) may be necessary to optimize benefits, especially for old chronic injuries or advanced, “bone-on-bone” arthritis.

 

THINK POSITIVELY! WE ARE ROOTING FOR YOU! We are in this with you and want you to be out of pain and back in the game!

 

[juliette91]

Thank you David, for sure I had expectations different from the instructional sheet you were given+ your own experience is in line with that. All the other info was identical to what was given to me.

 

My 4 site injections were February 12, both hands and both shoulders. So that’s 2.25 months. ?

[Rohlio]

Sorry that it appears to have been a red herring for you and if anything it may have made it a spot worse it sounds. I am pulling for you.

[ZipinZ]

> @juliette91 said:

> Thank you David, for sure I had expectations different from the instructional sheet you were given+ your own experience is in line with that. All the other info was identical to what was given to me.

>

> My 4 site injections were February 12, both hands and both shoulders. So that’s 2.25 months. ?

 

Juliette .... I believe you need to give it more time, the regeneration/healing process takes time and depending upon your age my doc says that's a factor. I'm 63 & don't want to suffer more than I have as a result of the car crash back in 1987, I'm seeing improvements and hope they continue with the PRP booster shots, the alternative, cortisone/steroid injections are hazardous to your health. Today I spent about 1.5 hrs re-gripping my driver & Scotty, felt good to be back in the workshop tinkering with my clubs, however, my back is a bit soar but nothing a hot shower won't fix.

 

Hope you update your progress over the next couple of months and share some positive results.

 

Cheers

 

David

 

[juliette91]

Waited a while so I didnt just keep posting for the sake of posting. I know something is working in there and it's taken about 3.5 months for any noticeable change for the good. So yes, time seems to be the ticket. I'm not particularly patient when it comes to my health and I should be. The changes are subtle but there. In golf:

 

1. I really could not play a sand shot normally before the stem cell injections. I struggled to maintain an open club face on the backswing and especially at impact. Turning my hand in the required positions hurt so much that I couldn't hold still enough to hit the spot in the sand that I wanted the bounce to hit. On any 25 sand shots I could execute maybe 1 or 2. Now I can execute about 3 out of 5.

2. Before injections I would lose the club in the backswing 50-70% of the time---too many ways of missing the shot due to this to recount but suffice to say I pretty much had to quit because of this.

Now I lose the club about 20% of the time and almost exclusively with longer clubs.

 

3. Before injections any shot that required a hold off (like a hold off fade or a pitch/chip from heavy rough or a low hold open a SW shot) I wouldn't even try. Now I can execute those about 50% of the time though my hold off fade has turned a bit into a slice since I still do not have the kind of hand control necessary for this.

 

Of course I want to be in health like I used to be when I was in local competitions growing up, but realistically now I'm wholly satisfied with not quitting the game altogether.

 

 

[Wesquire]

> @juliette91 said:

> Has anyone here had these injections? Results?

 

Everyone I know that had stem cell injections had zero improvement.

[ZipinZ]

> @juliette91 said:

> Waited a while so I didnt just keep posting for the sake of posting. I know something is working in there and it's taken about 3.5 months for any noticeable change for the good. So yes, time seems to be the ticket. I'm not particularly patient when it comes to my health and I should be. The changes are subtle but there. In golf:

>

> 1. I really could not play a sand shot normally before the stem cell injections. I struggled to maintain an open club face on the backswing and especially at impact. Turning my hand in the required positions hurt so much that I couldn't hold still enough to hit the spot in the sand that I wanted the bounce to hit. On any 25 sand shots I could execute maybe 1 or 2. Now I can execute about 3 out of 5.

> 2. Before injections I would lose the club in the backswing 50-70% of the time---too many ways of missing the shot due to this to recount but suffice to say I pretty much had to quit because of this.

> Now I lose the club about 20% of the time and almost exclusively with longer clubs.

>

> 3. Before injections any shot that required a hold off (like a hold off fade or a pitch/chip from heavy rough or a low hold open a SW shot) I wouldn't even try. Now I can execute those about 50% of the time though my hold off fade has turned a bit into a slice since I still do not have the kind of hand control necessary for this.

>

> Of course I want to be in health like I used to be when I was in local competitions growing up, but realistically now I'm wholly satisfied with not quitting the game altogether.

>

>

 

Juliette .... pleased to read the progress report & your finally seeing some improvements. In my case it was 6-9 months after the initial stem cell injections that I felt significant improvements in my lower back, your on your way, say positive and continue with the stretching/exercising, it will get better.

 

Cheers

 

David

[juliette91]

Thanks for your support David!

[Pleasedwith3putts]

I was diagnosed with needing both hips replaced but decided to give stem cell treatment a try in conjunction with a conventional arthroscopy clean up and also microfracture. Strictly no golf allowed for 6 months and crutches for 3 months to give the stem cells a chance to establish. That was 4 years ago and I'd say I'm at around 80% which I'd have taken. 36 holes is a stretch but I've gone from managing maybe 6 holes pain free and 12 in a fair bit of pain to getting round 18 walking without giving it too much thought. My thinking was that with the current rate of medical advancement, if this just gave me another 5 to 7 years then that might put some better options on the table.

[Rohlio]

I am happy you are seeing some positive improvement!

[Pepperturbo]

I cope with various degrees of severity of osteoarthritis inflammation in knees, hips, and hands. My hands are more tolerable. I go to the gym which helps a lot and use Diclofenac topical on knees and hands, and "2" Tylenol Arthritis 650mg and the rest is pain tolerance.

[juliette91]

pepperturbo I see you're using the avx ball? what do you see as the playing difference between them. we swing the same shaft specs, X 5.5

Glad you're finding something that works for you. The NSAIDS can cause some real problems with prolonged use but you probably know that already. the stem cell/prp injections I had were not inexpensive by any measure and not covered by my rather poor insurance, but nothing else worked for me and surgery outcomes were shockingly poor.

[juliette91]

Updating now about a month has gone by. My right hand is about 35% better than prior to the injections. That's a very meaningful number for me because it means I can perform most shots most of the time, where before I couldn't perform them at all. All holding the club face open shots previously were pretty much impossible or so painful if I could pull off one. Now I can hold the club open through a sand shot and holding off fades as well as spin and trajectory considerations. But I can't hit out of a lot of traps and I cannot really practice--at all--it's like I've got just so many hold the face open shots I can perform in one day, so many full swing shots, etc. Still, I'm back to playing 2x/week, but not back to form.

[ZipinZ]

Juliette .... tks for sharing the good news.

 

My game has improved this year since my stem cell procedure & follow-up PRP injections, gained a bit of S/S, my driver has seen a few in the 280-295 yd range, broke 80 today and my H/C is coming down, golf is much more fun these days.

 

Hope your progress continues, enjoy the summer.

 

Cheers

 

David

[juliette91]

Thanks David, my stem cell injections were in a "cocktail" with PRP and you reminded me to check on a PRP follow up. Thanks and I can only dream of 280-290. I'll settle for 230.

[PorscheFan]

Sounds like you’re making steady progress, which must feel wonderful!

 

I’m hardly in the same boat, but I have joint stiffness and tendinitis in my lead wrist. Some mornings it’ll take 10 mins before I can make a fist with my lead hand. I tried glucosamine, then systemic enzymes, and a fairly expensive turmeric supplement, and neither worked. I then stumbled on a product used by wrestlers for joints and tendons hilariously branded ‘Animal Flex’. It sounds like some hard core bodybuilding junk, but in actual fact it seems like wrestlers take a lot of the same things that older people take to keep joints and tendons functioning...

 

It’s got the usual joint supplements in it, but also ALA, hylauronic acid, ginger root, turmeric root, Boswellia, quercetin, bromelain, and other stuff I can’t spell. One thing that’s annoying about it is that it uses proprietary blends of some of those ingredients and thus doesn’t disclose the amounts of each. Still, taking that once a day (it’s like a vita pack) and a second chaser or bromelain later in the day is the first thing that’s helped me in both discomfort and ROM. Maybe it could make for cheap secondary insurance while you’re slowly improving from your treatments... Just a thought.

[juliette91]

Thanks for that information, will definitely check that out. I'd tried all the supplements you individually listed, buying the highest quality of each but nothing really helped. In my condition of severe arthritis, the bone on bone core of the problem just didn't seem to be alleviated. It's always about diagnosis first. Many people talk on these threads about what worked for them but unless you're talking about the same condition the information given--although always given with helping in mind--isn't usually helpful. But I always check these things out and will do for animal flex. Thanks!

[PorscheFan]

Sure. I'm in the same boat typically whe it comes to supplements... My body doesn't seem to benefit from individual supplements that others might rave about and get great results from. It's a similar situation wth prescription meds.

Presumably the stem cell injections are intended to improve your cartilege situation. What I suggested would do zilch for bone-on-bone but may provide a better environment for cartilege. Good luck!

[pinhigh27]

Absolutely 0 evidence it works

[juliette91]

I can't tell from the posts if they're responding to another post and if I can tell I can't tell which post. Anyone else have this issue?

[PorscheFan]

I think some people just comment on the thread title vs. an individual post...

[juliette91]

Thanks, understood. So my progress, which really got to about 60% better now is in decline and I'm meeting with the injector in chief in 10 days.

[juliette91]

Scheduled for PRP injections in about 10 days. It's disappointing to see the progress I'd made dissipate so quickly but the big idea is not to let the pain get back to pre-injection levels so that we'd be working off a pain level that is not as bad as before. Starting with not as bad as before and making progress will make this round---if it works--reach an even lesser level of pain than the zenith of the first injection.

 

Believe me, if there was a surgery that was as amazing as a hip or knee replacement I wouldn't be going through this, expensive and outcome a roll of the dice. The best prediction I had from the 3 surgeons I saw a year or so ago was about a 70% chance at having less pain than before the surgery. Along with that came a shortened thumb and a host of other potential issues.

[juliette91]

Been about 8 months now since my initial stem cell/PRP cocktail injections (22) into both shoulder labrum and both hand/wrist/basal thumb areas. SLAP tears in the shoulders and severe arthritis in the hands. You can read this discussion for the history. Going in tomorrow for two PRP injections, right hand and right shoulder to see if I can maintain the pain levels less than pre injection pain 8 months ago. The pain lessened about 2 months or so after the initial injections, improved about 50%, and then started to decline. I'd say now it's about 15% better than pre injection pain. The plan is to maintain the pain levels lower than the initial threshold with less expensive (still really expensive) PRP injections. Wish me luck.

[juliette91]

fwiw I don't need to be pain free though I'd like to be. To hold onto the golf club during the swing, especially any shot requiring the face to be held open, I need about a 25% improvement over pre injection pain.

[ZipinZ]

Positive things happen to positive people, wish you all the best.

 

That said, don't expect immediate results from your PRP shots, in my case I've had two PRP treatments and realized maximum results from the PRP booster shots that helped my initial stem cell injection regenerate further. It takes at least 5-6 months to see positive results from the PRP injections. I'm planning to book my 3rd PRP appointment (6 shots lower back - $650.00) when I return from SoCal in April 2020.

 

Cheers

 

David